What exactly is "build quality" of laptops?

Yeah I would actually like to see a 14 inch without optical drive with a full performance card in it and a full portable unit in the 11 inch design.

 

Same here, they've had huge gaps in the lineup since they discontinued the M15x and M11x. It's good that Clevo stepped up and made an ultraportable with some gaming potential though.

 

I go to sleep and there's 6 pages on this thread. Wat. Well time to read.

 

You snooze you lose

 

Well I'm sorry. Modding that new CoD XP tournament on twitch is tiring. Their chat is spam for days.

Even so I've read a lot of this. I seriously didn't wanna start an AW vs Clevo thread D=. I was just trying to figure out what everyone considered build quality to be, and I found the answer before the thread picked up XD.
Ah well. Either way I've got my answer. In that case I do have to tip my hat to AW. As for your post about your power brick and stuff, my D900F's brick doesn't do that, and I've got a Deathadder 3500 here too. So I don't know what to say there. I only know my own direct experience; I've NEVER seen another clevo laptop first hand in my life. I know someone who knew another person who had one in my country, but I never saw it. I think it was the D901C. I have seen two alienwares though, and they were bought in the time period I got mine. They're worlds behind what they have now.

I didn't know AW stepped up their cooling so much though. I guess the PxxEM series went down in that respect. I know someone who had a P170HM barebones and built the system up himself and added some copper pins to the heatsink (I believe similar to what XoticPC offers but I could be terribly wrong) and he was getting fantastic cooling, but now foil mods and I think someone used a guitar pick? seem to be standard to get the best out of the cooling.

Anyway I got an understanding of why people say what they say now. Thanks guys.

 

Yeah It was my mistake, I need to do more research it seems

 

I never noticed you lived in Trinidad and Tobago. You have no business getting a Clevo period because if anything goes wrong you'll need to ship it to the U.S back and forth on your expense. If I lived in the U.S I wouldn't be having a fraction of the problems I'm having today since I would just get the machine fixed/replaced under warranty. My warranty is pointless because short of a whole board change shipping would cost about as much or more than changing any other faulty component on my expense. If you can't ship the unit cheaply/quickly you're on your own.

 

I know this. Why do you think I like good reliability so much? I know exactly how I need to work with warranties. It's also the reason I plan to go with Mythlogic for my next Clevo as I will have a LOT better experience with warranty (and shipping of items etc). I know parts aren't going to be perfect or always last forever, but going by how my D900F lasted me I expect little to no problems and I plan to be in the US if possible sometime soon. So.... yeah.

Also, please don't tell me I have no business getting a clevo >_>. ANYTHING I buy down here has the same warranty issues, and if I buy what's selling here it's 4-5 year old tech at best. so.... yeah. Nope.

 

I'll tell you whatever I feel like telling you since you started a thread asking for advice, and I'm offering some from my experience. I also thought: "My Acer lasted me 5 years with no issues, what could go wrong with a much more expensive machine?" And I'm paying dearly for it now. You don't have to accept the advice/opinion, but don't spit it back at people's faces when their advice is well-intentioned to help you circumvent what they've been through, specially that there aren't many international customers around here.

Sager has no warranty issues for the majority of users, let me repeat in bold: their warranty is good depending on your reseller, and mythlogic has good rep, but only if you can easily ship the unit back and forth if anything goes wrong, which Mythlogic won't pay for. If you don't mind shipping your laptop from Trinidad back and forth (international shipping from Qatar to the U.S and back would be at least ~500 USD for a heavy laptop, don't know about Trinidad), then go for it, just keep your fingers crossed nothing goes wrong because it'll be expensive, or make sure you have some cheap way of shipping somehow. If you're going to be in the continental U.S for an extended period of time soon then great, good luck with your Clevo and I anticipate your review

P.S: I wasn't suggesting you just buy what's the on the market in your country. I have the same problem here. An AW m17x from two generations ago with the bare minimum specs (560M Nvidia, 2nd gen basic Sandy Bridge CPU, 500GB HDD, 6GB RAM) sells for ... wait for it ... ~4000 USD. But guess what?

http://www1.la.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/en/sictrin?c=tt&l=en&cs=ttdhs1

You have two Dell service centers in Trinidad, so you'll never have to ship anything anywhere and they'll be forced to fix your computer under the basic international warranty, even if your model is not on sale in your country. Just saying

 

I already said I know how the warranty works. I've got a 4 year old Sager that I have had to work on warranty issues with and I know about needing to ship it there and back. I also know about how they work with credit card acceptance and their dependency on bank wire transfers and how those warranties work. I also know that the ONLY company that will offer a working warranty here is Dell, and if I were to go based on that I'd end up with an Alienware. I already stated that I know and understand how the warranties work, and again that that's why I hunt for the best reliability and even more to the point why I went with Mythlogic, who is actually going to test the machine and make sure everything's good AND WILL ACCEPT MY CREDIT CARD if any warranty issues appear and I need to buy something. This thread, as I said above, taught me that AW has stepped up their game immensely, so that's now another option since Dell's warranties are so handy.

I'm not telling you to not offer me advice, or to say "you'd be better off getting x or y". I'm simply annoyed that you said the literal words "you have no business buying a clevo". That's all.

 

Ahh ok. Misunderstanding then. I was under the impression you were going ahead with ordering a Clevo to Trinidad, that's why I kept on repeating the argument in different words.

Was just a figure of speech, it's your money obviously so I wasn't about to instruct you what to do

 

It might also be worth looking looking at MSI too, my buddy had pretty good support from them when he was deployed over in the sand pit. He ended up needing the fans replaced due what I assume was damaged caused by sand particles, anyway I don't think he paid much, if anything at all, and the service was also pretty timely given the location. Their chassis are probably not the most "sturdy" out there, but they obviously get the job done if his can survive the punishment a desert deployment puts out..........just some added food for your thoughts :thumbsup:

 

Glad that's cleared up XD. I already have a clevo, if you noticed, and it was ordered to here. So I was already prepared for all that it would entail. It was my plan to get a clevo, but plans can change by the time I'm ready to order one. Again though, a huge drawback of the Alienwares is that people WILL want to steal them. Large, unassuming-looking laptops however? People literally walk right by and give them no further thought. In that respect it's a huge potential money-saver.

 

People will steal any slightly modern looking machine TBH.

 

I've had people offer to take my D900F from me if I paid them. One person offered me $10 (read: $1.5 USD) for it. NOBODY wants to steal a laptop higher than 15" that looks business-like in this country. They're so technologically backwards that they're still selling nVidia GeForce GTS 250s for $220 USD as "powerful gaming cards" and people buy them. They think an AMD tri-core 2.3 GHz and a radeon 6670 is a powerful gaming machine.

I am talking about things I've seen in 2013 btw.

 

Although we are in different locations, I do believe there is merit to your logic. Nobody really takes a second glance at my 150EM unless they can clearly see the visuals it's putting out, but I do get the occasional compliment on the Zagg skin I installed recently. Even though most of the people that know me probably figure it's expensive because my purchases in general tend to gravitate towards the "higher-end", it still makes it a bit more relaxing to carry around...........Not that notebook theft on my campus is a common occurrence but there have been a few cases that I'm aware of where macbooks "disappeared", so it's definitely a valid concern.

 

Yeah. It's also a nice feeling that I could go to functions where I'm hired to run a gaming station and leave my machine up while I sort out some problem or other in other rooms and know that I'm coming back to my machine being there.

 

It's not a nice feeling when my geek friends are like: "This is the crazy premium gaming laptop you've been telling us about that you ordered all the way from the U.S? Oo"

P.S: I'm a resident psychiatrist, by "geek friends" I mean specialists and consultants under 45 years of age, not teenagers.

 

Your "geek" friends should have a good idea why it's a premium laptop when they learn what's under the hood, not that the outside is any worse........but I digress

You seem to obviously be an educated man, so I really don't understand why you haven't been able to come to the conclusion that your poor experience is not something that is considered "normal" with this brand. You just happened to be the unfortunate individual that received a poorly QA'd item, which can happen no matter who you purchase from. I'd venture a guess that if you bought an AW that had several mobo failures or had a "hinge failure" on an MSI you would be singing the same song about them.

 

It astounds me that you seem to have the demeanor of someone who thinks they're making good points. I would be singing the same song about a faulty AW if I ventured into the AW forum and realized that whereas some things about my AW are clearly just lemons, many other people are complaining about the same components being sub-par or underwhelming at best. If my AW keyboard was just crap and everyone else was raving about how awesome the keyboard was, there would be no song to sing, and I'd just accept I'm unlucky. If everyone else's comments ranged from hysterical anger to lukewarm acceptance of average build and performance (as is the case for the P170EM's sound, keyboard, locked BIOS, inability to turn off switchable gfx ..etc) then I'd have some ground to stand on accusing AW of producing a specific model with poor quality control, no?

For the record all my posts have been about my specific model, the P170EM. The fellows with the HM series for example are having a great experience and upgrading their machines with new GPUs and beating the new EM series' in stability and overall performance and satisfaction. So I'm not ranting about Clevo/Sager as a whole even if it seems that way, but about my specific model when compared with the competing AW model.

It seems that you can't tolerate one dissenting view that doesn't think their Clevo unit is great. That's my opinion, my experience, and many other people's experiences voiced here, I just happen to be more audacious and persistent about voicing it, and I happen to think that my absence tilts the posts and reviews (unless someone looks hard throughout the past few months' threads) unjustifiably towards the EM series. I'm not sure what your gripe is, and frankly I don't really care, the only reason I'm responding is to keep the thread on the first page so people can read my opinion about the P170EM.

 

From your some of your posts I thought you were an engineer! Well, turns out you're like an engineer of the mind huh?

 

We're not at that point yet, probably not in my lifetime but yeah that's the goal

I'm fascinated by computers because leaving the supernatural to the side, human brains are organic information receiving/processing machines, pure and simple. I believe the breakthrough in psychology (and subsequently psychiatry) might come through the joint efforts of programmers and A.I scientists, before it comes through reverse-engineering millions of years of evolution-spurred higher brain functions or neurology.

 

I think it will be a meet in the middle There is something to be said for understated power, a reason why my old acer 7738G had charm considering it had a 3ghz Quad in it.

 

I guess the build quality depends on the model. I own Clevo W860CU and my sister owns M860TU. The W860CU is a little newer but the build quality imho is a big downgrade from the M860TU. Mines are noisy, have more problems and bulkier. the screen is also worse until i got them upgraded. (unavailable at the time).

 

Wow...I've read a lot on NBR, and though I visit this place (especially my beloved Clevo forum) everyday, I felt compelled to come out of a quasi-retirement and say this (not that my opinion matters much ): Clevo and Alienware both sell amazing laptops with amazing components, great build quality for decent prices. Let's all just accept and recognize that, and forget about which one is 'better' (let's not turn this into a giant p-ing contest, shall we?).

Getting back to the matter at hand, build quality...From my very limited experience with laptops, for me, build quality boils down to one word: durability. If a laptop can last for years and years, then its build quality is excellent. Aesthetics is an entirely different ballgame. Unfortunately, people want to figure out what constitutes build quality without taking the time to figure out if it's good or not...basically, they want a crystal ball, in which they can look into the future and based on what they see, they can accurately judge whether or not the machine has good build quality in the present, and make their purchase accordingly. Mmmyeah, that's not gonna happen, sorry.

One way around that, as someone mentioned, was to do proper research and to look for problems in forums and such. A great idea, definitely...I do that constantly whenever I feel an itch to buy a new computer. However, you have to account for response bias: people who talk about problems outnumber those who are happy with their systems and don't really want to waste time articulating how good their machines work. Still, it's better than nothing, right?

As a college student (soon to be professional), I have been looking at build quality as one of the highest requirements for my newest laptop. I'm very very happy with Sager's build quality, because I own a 8130 and it's given me literally no problems. It's been used very very lightly (really, it's almost in mint condition though I've used it everyday for 2 years), and I've taken extremely good care of it. Unfortunately, I really can't comment on Alienware because I've never owned one. But I would guess (and this is an educated guess) that their build quality is really good; and I want to commend them on a good job.

Mr. Mysterious

 

I have had an 8150 for about two years or so, love it. However, after reading for the last year about the new models, I would wait until the new release of lappys and read the reviews before I bought another Sager. The EM series seems to have changed the overall quality. I bought my Sager after reading about them for many months, but will wait before buying another since the EM list of issues. Very weak with the Enduro issue on the 15" lappys, and my HM is still running great. I am not a huge gamer, mine makes me money, but I need it to do what it promises. I can hold out until something great comes to fruition, but I am disappointed in the latest series.

I do like that we get the other side of the picture when someone like Neo gives his feedback. Yeah, it could be a bad laptop, maybe one in a thousand, but there are others with issues too. That is where we can get our info and decide what to buy, if we buy and where to buy.

I would not like to have to buy an AW, but if they or MSI ar the only ones that can possibly give us something that disables Enduro, then I would look at them. Fortunately I am a long ways from having to get another, but issues are issues. Quality is quality. I will spend my dollars where I feel the best value is. Right now I do not feel it is with Sager. I hope the next gen is much more like the laptop I bought.

 

Other than Enduro which is really an AMD issue I'm not sure what issues you're referring to. There's other things like keyboard ghosting and average audio quality, and as with all Sager notebooks, has limited BIOS options, otherwise the EM laptops are pretty problem free.

Build quality to me is fit and finish (how well do things line up), rigidity and flexibility (is it flimsy where it shouldn't be, or rigid where it shouldn't be), and comfort level (screen quality, keyboard/touchpad usability, etc). I am an automotive design engineer and deal with build quality all the time in cars and it's the same type of deal. Some of it is really perception. You can have the finest materials go into something but if the build quality sucks, it's perceived as being "cheap" or "substandard". You can have the fastest and best components in a laptop but if the lid is flimsy, the keyboard is mushy, and panels keep detaching, then build quality will make or break the deal.

 

Well see this is where I had made my original decision. I mean audio quality isn't of paramount importance directly with me as I usually use a headset at all times (mainly I'm in teamspeak or livestreaming etc, external speakers are a MASSIVE no-no with these) and keyboards I can get used to pretty easy as long as the keys aren't difficult to press. But I did notice that the P170EM (which was what I originally went for) wouldn't be my first choice. Optimus was a part of it, but then I wanted the 120Hz screen and all that other stuff. Stuff that I saw in the HM version. The P370EM looks to be the real gem of the EM series to me, with its lack of switchable graphics, but even then I think the second GPU and CPU don't need to share a heatsink. Everything else appears to be fantastic about it though.

Either way though, hoping the refresh will get better =D.

 

Yeah, I agree with all of you. Abidderman, you make a couple of great points, and yes, NeoCzar does help us by telling us his/her issues with the machine. The more we know, the better, and I guess I got a little defensive of Clevo because I just love my laptop that much

HT, you're talking about what it means to you. I know you're aware that it (ie build quality) means different things for different people. Since I'm about to be thrust into the job market, right now I'm focusing on function over form much more than anything else. I can't afford any luxuries yet, so finding something reliable that will last me through my first couple of jobs will be really important. It's nigh impossible to test the reliability of new machines, however, which is why I'm looking into last gen, like the X220 and the UX31E/UX32A/UX21.

Mr. Mysterious

 

There are always things to improve and focus on that time should let you work on without drastically altering the price. I think we will see a better audio solution next time.