What's The Future For The 9262???

The 9262, which in one form or the other has been around evolving for almost 4 years since the original 900 version, is in my opinion one of the most accomplished laptops ever made. Its configuration flexibility and proven reliability is unmatched and I think, if there is such thing as a product becoming a classic in the computer world, I think it would be fair that this model has its future place in the Clevo history books.

However I think its fair to say the end is near for the aging 9262. In its current motherboard/chipset/CPU configuration, that has gone from 800MHz FSB to 1066MHz and now even 1333MHz, and from modest Dual-Core processors all the way to the latest Quad-Cores which is all astonishing, I think its fair to say that finally a wall has been hit.

I don't think Clevo can still push the internal inner workings of the 9262 to make its FSB work at 1600MHz to support some of the latest Intel CPUs. If so, that would be great. We could possibly see the new 6 Core Xeons and eventually newer Dual/Quad-Cores in it. But I don't think that is possible nor that Clevo will want to spend more research time on what is now a totally dated P965 + ICH8M motherboard/chipset design.

I don't see in any of Intel's roadmaps any more new Processors coming out with 1333HMz FSB that are any higher than what we have now, the E8600 3.33GHz and the Q9650 3.0GHz so, I finally suspect the end of life/upgrades for the 9262.

True, enough there is still the Dual-Core Xeon X5270 running at 3.5GHz/1333MHz FSB at 80W power specs that Intel may release as a Core-Duo2 CPU, which will work on the 9262. There is also still the Quad-Core Xeon X5470 that clocks in at 3.33GHz with a 1333MHz FSB but at a thermal spec of 120W (that I KNOW OR SURE the 9262 could support but officially never will) and also the X5492 at 3.40GHz though already based on a 1600MHz FSB (and releasing 150W of heat which would surely melt down the laptop).

Sure, we can all still try to overclock our beloved 9262 it try to push it a little harder bit with harder w/ some extra mods, but the truth is as far as easy solutions go, no one ever found the ClockGen model of the 9262 to easily raise its FSB nor has anyone ever ventured to design a new BIOS to replace Clevo's ridiculously limited standard BIOS and give us real overcooking and tweaking possibilities. Here is where companies like ASUS and DELL have gained grounds with laptops that can be pushed much harder than the 9262 via tweakable BIOSes.

Intel's new architecture is for the Core 7i platform, and that is a whole new ball game. The 9262 cannot be upgraded to support that nor have I heard of any new products (or even rumors) from Clevo as far as a replacement for the 9262 based on the upcoming Core 7i logic.

So my question is really, OK, it has been fun and my words of gratitude to Clevo for the amazing upgradable product the 9262 has been for so long, are endless!

But now, realistically, what's next for the 9262 or what's the "next" 9262?

 

The next update is going to be on the core i7, as far as most of us are guessing. It will still compete with the "other" mobile processor based SLi rigs, and win hands down ..

Clevo's extremely efficient heat management has given the best of experiences. The 1-fan design in the M860TU has created a new standard.

If it is possible to make the systems slimmer, they will thwart the "model" like rigs completely.

 

I totally agree with you. As the Core 7i will be a limited launch this year and I think only becoming more mainstream by mid-next year, what's the "best guess" on possible ETAs from Clevo to announce or release a 7i based machine?

 

whats the news on the Radion X2 cards? how are they layed out 2 cards or 1... mabye some thing to do with that?...

I cant see them doing a big fat traditional Sli laptop again thou.. they seem to not be that popular dell pushing hard to get rid of alot of left over 1730s for instance.

Also the hole 1 fan cooling in the m860tu looks great with The cool processors in it atm... but as people upgrade to quadcores and the like the m860tu it wont be all wonders not to mention when games stress CPUs more which they hardly do now...

my m860tu peaks at about 85 which is not that far off from a new well built m15x... if i was transcoding with my cpu at the same time im sure i could get a 95+ gpu reading easy.

 

Capella and I7, gtx cards

 

resellers are providing an 8 GB RAM option for the 9262.. but mentioning the limitation of upto ~6.8 GB. If it is possible to fix this relatively easily, then the next "minor" update might be FULL 8 GB RAM support.

Just a speculation..

 

i would not use the memory as a factor of buying.

People and gamers do not even address 4GB... let alone 8GBs.

I only know a few people that are 3D animators and graphic designers working with large textures or pictures.... like 20+ Megapixel... that would need a lot of memory.

Gamers do not even tap 3GB's yet.

As for the future, its all speculation.

Clevo has no official replacement or update for the D901C in their roadmap.

But you can be sure of this, if they were working a new system, you would not be able to get your hands on one for a full year... meaning Q3 2009.

So waiting would be kind of useless, since there is always new coming out within 3-6 months, so if you wait now, you will always be waiting.

 

So you're saying me waiting on a updated 9262 is useless!
How could you say such a thing...i'm telling mommy! :cry:

 

its always going to be that way with technology.

 

I just got my 9262 which I will be using for about 1 year and a half to two years. I'm a desktop guy, I mostly use my 9262 for word proc and a little bit of gaming. But hey I'm a performance nut. As far as waiting for a new lappy. I wouldn't the because technology is always advancing.

Heres a good example GTX 280 > 9800 X2 (in under 3 months I think, don't quote me though.)

 

I doubt if the next iteration of the 9262/D901C is going to run "mobile processors." The current version runs desktop processors, so it only stands to reason that the next iteration of the 9262/D901C will run desktop Nehalem/i7 processors. That, of course, means that it will continue to be king of the hill. Also, that means that the next-gen D901C is likely to be out by next August/September, just in time for the big computer industry shows, given that the desktop Nehalems/i7s are, as far as I know, still on track for release at the end of this year or the beginning of next year (and, of course, the "mobile" versions will follow after that, so a notebook based on a "mobile" Nehalem/i7 is going to be even later than the next iteration of the D901C - assuming it's based on desktop Nehalem/i7s - and assuming that I'm not being overly optimistic.

 

Of course it will run desktop processors.. I did not say that it will turn MOBILE..

 

Don't get me wrong Gophn...I understand completely what you're saying w/ the technology always changing and waiting is useless because of this. But for me it's not a useless wait; because the technology that's gonna be in my next notebook come next year would/should be future proof for a good 5 years down the road. I'm talking about the elimination of the FSB technology due to Nehalem's Quickpath Interconnect technology, DDR3 memory (which would be standard w/ Nehalem) and also SSD which in the future will end up replacing HDDs. So IMO, waiting for this type of advanced technology is not useless because they represent a huge change and a big step forward in computer technology.

PS: Think about it...Intel's Nehalem Core i7 itself is worth waiting for and by no means useless! That microarchitecture is a big deal in itself.

 

In my opinion there is no way to buy five year future proof technology right now since Intel will "obsolete" today's platforms in the next 12 to 18 months. SSDs and Nahelem are big deals for software development pros given the load characteristics. I doubt the impact on gaming will be as significant in 2009 until games are re-written to take advantage of the new platform.

So at best, you get two years although the 9262 machine will still be higher performance in two years time than the vast majority of what will be out there.

From what I got from IDF we will likely see Nahalem premium desktops this year and I'll be first in line with my regular boutique integrator because it is cost justified for my business. At the earliest, you might see a Clevo announcement in March but I doubt you will be able to take delivery before next fall.

If my business needs it I would buy another 9262 machine. However, I'm budgeting for a high end laptop refresh for our development group in fall of 2009.

Phil Schaadt

 

Well the 9262 has been around for how long? And is still the King!

 

The D901C was debuted at in March/April 2007. It was shipped out in late Q2, early Q3 2007.

So for a full year in consumers' hands, it still remains king.

 

It all rounds upto 1 thing:


If you really need one, you get it. If you have the ample time to wait, you can always wait.

 

I plan on buying a maxed 9262 around December. Maybe by then prices will drop just a bit and I'll spend around $4K.

 

Oh right!, I thought it's been around for more time than that.

$4K, Meh!...by the time i'm finished i'll be around $5K~.

 

You really have to try to get it up to $5K.

 

Oh it's easy, trust me.

 

the 901C will always have its place in Sager's line up. What I really hope for is a 20' with tri or quad SLI option to bring the laptop performance closer to the desktop one. Especially now with GT280 in tri SLI, laptop 3D performance is not even close to the new desktop monsters

 

Truer words were ne'er spoken (or typed ). However, for those who do need to buy right now, the D901C is more likely than anything else available to provide sustained performance for the next 5 years (albeit not at the absolute apex by the time we get to late 2009/early 2010). Even then, by 2013, the D901C available today will still be a very respectable competitor, and will in all likelihood, continue to trump, hands down, most of the notebooks, and a substantial number of desktops, then available.

The other thing to keep in mind with Nehalem/i7 - this is a brand-new architecture, that deviates substantially from Intel's by-now well-worn path; as a result, there are likely to be some significant implementation problems that will crop up during 2009 and, most likely, into 2010, that will reduce the overall performance achievable with a Nehalem/i7 system until such time as all of the kinks are worked out and the shake-down cruise is completed. As a result, I would not bet on any of the Nehalem/i7 solutions being able to wipe the floor with the D901C right out of the box, and probably not until 2010 or so. I could, of course, be wrong, but I'd wager good money that I've got the probabilities on my side, and that there's at least a 50%, plus 1, chance that I'm right.

 

Implicitly.

 

no such thing as 'future proof'. Not until technology hits the wall, which it will eventually.

 

Which wall is that?

 

Exactly...there isn't any wall to hit w/ technology IMO. It will end when the world ends!

PS: I think you guys are missing my point though! regarding my comment about future proof.
Digest my post #13

 

Well, every particular technological development has a wall, but one development's wall is usually another technology's stepping stone to commercial success; so overall, there is no wall, per se, to technology as a whole, merely to individual particular technologies.

 

Go to apple store for ****s and grins, and max out a macpro tower....it will come out over 23K !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

^yeap,he is right!

OT: since we have Desktop CPU,I want desktop GPU!

 

My C64 still works. I say a computer is good to go as long as you still believe in it =)

The 9262 should stay perfectly viable for quite a few years. A solid 3 from now I'd wager.

 

I see, you are right, but I don't understand where this comment comes in.

 

ME TOO......

 

So hypothetically, the 9262 will still be king in Apr 09? That's when I the soonest I would be able to buy a NB. And if the 9262 will still be king and be a good NB for three years, then it seems like an easy decision for me.

 

The thing is that when it's released it will be prohibitively expensive for most people (I'd have bought a QX9650 for my rig if it weren't so).

Then by the time the price becomes 'acceptable' there'd be releases visible in the horizon (for CPU, RAM and GPU) which will lure one into waiting.... but by the time they become available it'd all result to be prohibitively expensive for most people... So they wait again until the price drops... and in the meantime there'd be more good specs available as the top specs...

Which reminds me of the song: There's a hole in the bucket dear Lisa dear Lisa, there's a hole in the bucket.....

 

Ultimately what will make Clevo bring the 9262's replacement is when sales start to drop. As long as people keep buying and Sager keeps ordering the 9262, it's replacement will sit on the shelf. That just adds more credit to the 9262's power. It probably will be almost two years old before it's replacement even gets announced. What a shelf life!

 

Hypothetically, yes; however, let's not start debating how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin. What you should buy is whatever fits your cost/benefit equation the best at the time when you need to buy; not whatever hypothetical systems you can imagine in the meantime. E.g., it's entirely possible, by the time you're ready to buy, that _Dell might have released a system that does what you need better, and for lower cost, than the current D901C (hey! I said it was a hypothetical, ok, sort of like in quantum physics, nothing's really impossible, just very, very, very improbable ). If, and it's a big if, that happens, then you would be foolish to do anything other than buy that _Dell. A good case in point is eleron911, who got a fantastic deal on an XPS that just made it senseless for him to stick to a Clevo.

 

Good point...my response to that is..you as the consumer gotta know what you want, and what you're waiting for!

Makes sense but they need to move w/ the technology...Intel's new microarchitecture (Nehalem) is on the horizon and even if they decide not too update the 9262 they should at least introduce a new line of notebooks specifically for that new technology. At least that's what other companies do right?...Montevina came out and all major computer manufacturers updated; including Clevo. They should do the same w/ Bloomfield, whether or not it's the 9262...I just hope i'm not fantasizing!

 

All we can do is wish, pray, hope, dream, fantasize, daydream, rub on a rabbit's foot. That's what makes the future so intriguing. All we can do is wait and see.

 

Is that with, or without, the rest of the rabbit attached?

 

I imagine my question will be next to impossible to answer, but It's still been on my mind so here goes.
I probably if everything works out will be buying the NP9262 around summer next year.
I know how technology works and waiting for it to slow down at least at this point would be useless.
The 3 main things I'm looking for are the Intel Core i7, SSD, Windows 7.
If I really want to I could probably add the SSD in the future if. I just would really wish to have the other 2 around when I purchases the laptop.
Windows 7 isn't as big as a deal with the option to not add a OS and just purchase it separately I think...
Would it be safe to assume that the Intel Core i7, IF it will be added to the NP9262, will be available around Summer 09?

 

That is a lot of "ifs" I don't know that anyone can answer that for sure.

 

No, that would not be a safe assumption, for three reasons: (i) there's no guarantee that Clevo will build a successor to the D901C at all, (ii) there's no guarantee that, if Clevo does, the successor will be available at that time, and (iii) there's no guarantee that the i7s will be out/about, and ready for action at that time, particularly in a notebook as opposed to a desktop.

 

@Shyster1
Thank you, though even without the i7 cores the FSB speed on the NP9262 is amazing!

This may be slightly off topic but on the Wikipedia entry, for the i7 series it gives the FSB a "4.8 GT/s to 6.4 GT/s"...perhaps I'm behind a little in my reading of technology. As of till now though I don't believe I have ever heard the term GT/s. How does this equate to MHz? Are they to completely different measurements?

 

The i7s won't have an FSB, so comparisons are like comparing apples and oranges - any sensible comparison can be quite difficult, and short-hand comparisons (A is better than B) are worse than useless (because they can be misleading).

the i7s will use a new architecture Intel calls QuickPath, which will replace the FSB in its entirety (thus, no Nehalem/i7 CPU will ever be backwards compatible with any current existing system. QuickPath is a point-to-point communications system that allows two components to communicate privately, instead of over the old public system of the FSB. One big difference will be that the communications backbone for the entire system won't get monopolized by each component that needs to send a message out.

I took a quick look at the Wikipedia article, and found an ancillary article, Intel Quickpath Interconnect, that explains that the unit GT/s means "Gigatransfers per second per direction." To translate that into something that can be compared to FSBs, according to the article, the two flavors of Quickpath, 4.8 GT/s and 6.4GT/s, with a full width link of 20 bits,
will theoretically provide the equivalent of 24GB/s to 32GB/s per link.

Further, according to the article, the first i7 implementations will use a bandwidth that will provide the equivalent of 25.6GB/s, which is, according to the article, exactly double the theoretical bandwidth on the 1600MHz FSB used in the current X48 chipset.

As an aside, I would note that the fact that Nehalem/i7 will be not just a new CPU architecture, but a whole new chipset architecture as well, is more reason to suspect that Nehalem-based notebook systems, even those using desktop components, will not likely be available until Fall or Winter of 2009.

Hope that helps a little.

 

@Shyster1
Thank you that was actually quite interesting to read about.
So with no FSB does that mean the motherboards that support the i7 will also have a re-arranged motherboard bus system? Or do they plan to keep the old system processor->north bridge->south bride, and all the other buses?
It may be just me but it fells that the motherboard bus system is a little out dated.
It was a improvement when AMD linked the memory bus straight to the processor instead of going through the NB, but it fells with today's duo-quad cores, and now a technology that wipes away the FSB. The entire bus system should get a update. I guess it could be the best (at least for now), and changing it would cause more confusing.

 

The i7s will have a completely rearranged motherboard - there will no longer be north/south bridges (the memory controllers are also being moved on-die; something, BTW, that AMD did a while back). The old system bus architecture will be dead (at least on Intel-based systems) with the release of the first i7 systems. It's not just you, the bus system is indeed very outdated, and in fact, latencies on the bus caused, in part, because each component that uses the bus must necessarily monopolize it, are causing noticeable problems in the faster systems (including, in my speculation, some, but not all, of the micro-stuttering that some of the SLi-enabled notebooks have been having).

The best analog for the current bus system is the old telephone system of part lines, where a single telephone line was shared by multiple households, and anyone wanting to make a call had to pick up, see if anyone else was already talking, and then wait until the prior conversation finished before they could contact the operator and get their own call placed (and, of course, when the phone rang in one house, in rang in every house, so no doubt, there was an awful lot of surreptitious eavesdropping going on - makes one wonder how telephone calls ever came to be considered "private" communications).

Just as with the old party lines, on the current bus system, each component that needs to communicate with another component (i.e., place a call) must listen in on the bus first to tell whether or not it's in use, and if it is, that component must wait until the first conversation stops before it can start sending its own communication out (as a consequence, some components probably "block" - stop doing anything else - until the communication is completed).

Just as party lines have long since been consigned to the rubbish bins of history, it's about time the FSB was so consigned as well. Of course, there will be plenty of growing pains in the next year or so as the new Quickpath Interconnect is taken out for its maiden RTM voyage and given its shake-down cruise.

 

@shyster1
I see, I found a site its in some Asian language but they have some bus diagrams of the Intel QuickPath Interconnect, which is pretty interesting.
It kinda hard to look up things like the Borobox, but the system itself seems pretty self explanatory.
(Here is the Link to the pictures http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2008/0331/kaigai02l.gif )
It also seemed strange that they would stick the harddrive off of the southbridge. I know memory is much more important, though it seemed that already the harddrive is such a huge bottleneck, even at 7200RPM.

So you think with the QuickPath Interconnect there's going to be much weeping in it's near future? I could see it being a problem, but I can also see a lot the first people who will buy it, will be the more knowledgeable ones with computers. then over time the masses will start using them.

 

I think the drama queens will be out in full force for a while, with much feigned gnashing of teeth and rending of garments, but in the end, I think mostly it'll be a question of performance not being totally 100% for a while, and that most people really won't notice much, if any, difference, although the cognoscenti will have their benchmarkers out, and will be measuring the differences in picoseconds, no doubt. However, unlike certain other dramatic revisions (e.g., _Vista), I don't think that there's much disagreement with the idea that something new has to be put into place, because the old is clearly showing its age.

 

Well this sort of suggests a broader question, and perhaps the answer is obvious to someone more tech savvy than myself... but what happens to the old technology once the i7 architecture is released? How soon will it be before software is written only to use this new architecture and those of us with "old" systems will be unable to even use it? I'd have to imagine it would be quite a while, considering how prevalent the current technology is... but it might be worth thinking about.