When playing games, how much stuttering is normal in a high-end laptop?

Thanks for all the help Jack. I had a go at the solutions over the weekend.

First, with the DirectX 10.1 solution, I downloaded and ran the file. A command prompt box appeared and disappeared in a fraction of a second, and then nothing has happened since. And the instructions suggest that this is done before updates are installed but mine are already all up to date.

I ran through the network card solutions. I assumed methods 1 and 2 were alternatives, or did they both have to be done? Also, this card is disconnected/disabled anyway, as I'm using wireless Internet. Method 1 seemed to be okay, but in method 2 step 5 all I see is Flow Control > Disable/Enable. Is that what you meant?

I've tried Dox's modded Clevo inf file too, which is great, except the DVD player still crashes, and after all these performance-boosting solutions, the stutter/sound loop problem is still there.

I'm really grateful for how helpful everybody has been, but I think a replacement may be the only solution.

 

Intresting, considering what you have tried it should have improved. The only thing I can think of now is a sound driver needs updating and even if that comes to no avail then it may be the machine it self. Does this only happen with crysis or pretty much any game you play?

 

Actually, Crysis is probably the best behaved game with the stuttering (the SLi slowdown being the only issue there, and the fact that its performance seems way below what others with the same machine are getting) and tends to happen when shooting. It happens but not as frequently. It's particularly bad in Call of Duty 4. MS Flight Sim X was bad to start with but now not so much, although the sound problems are worst with this game. In Far Cry sometimes it's infrequent and sometimes it's frequent. In Dawn of War it's hard to spot because it's not as dynamic as an FPS but you can see it when scrolling around the map. In Half-Life 2 it's semi-frequent but tends to stabilise as if you stay in the same area (as if everything was already in memory). I haven't tried anything else yet.

I am using the latest sound driver for Realtek High Definition Audio.

 

hey gls5000,

Reading the prior posts, seems like you are using vista 64bit? Well... I to have this issue, and it actually isn't the vid card/drivers, HD etc. It is the bad case of Vista... at least for me. The one thing I can suggest doing... as you last stated 2 posts ago... you use wireless. Try connecting it via ethernet and disable wifi. See if that helps.

I find that doing that takes away ALL my online stuttering issue. If the stuttering goes away, then it has something to do w/ vista and this thing called WIFI autoconfig. Read here:

http://www.vistax64.com/vista-games/135850-fix-wlan-autoconfig-problem.html

Seems to be a common issue w/ vista and unfortunately... there isn't (or so not yet... or I just can't find it) a solution for it. There are somethings out there that is suppose to suppress this config (WLAN Optimizer is one) but seems to work for some... and not all.

So if I may suggest, try connecting via ethernet, disable the wifi... and see what that does. If it still persists... then you know it doesn't have to do with wireless connection

 

Just looked through the videos I had been taking (in case I needed to show the tech guys) to get a more factual idea:

Half Life 2: 3 times in just over a minute
Far Cry: about once or twice a minute
Crysis: 3 times in two minutes, and 1 time in one minute
Call of Duty 4: once or twice in 2 minutes, then once in 30 seconds, and 3 times in a minute.

I'll take some more vids when I get time, to see if the stuttering is less frequent (although there should be practically none of course) since some of the solutions I've been given here.

EDIT: Just saw your post nam3less, thanks. I'll give it a try in a sec.

 

Just tried disabling wireless. No luck I'm afraid.

I tested it with Crysis. The wireless problem is due to a once-a-minute check, right? So the stuttering would happen once a minute. This is more random; in fact, it tends to happen in firefights (Crysis) and turning corners (COD4). In Crysis it will go for minutes with nothing happening if I don't get into a fight, but as soon as I attack I'll get about 3 or 4 stutters in quick succession, regardless of settings and even with frame rates between 25 and 40 (although it doesn't play like 25-40 fps because of the SLi problem I'm having with Crysis.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

I see I see... mine doesn't happen every minute. Or maybe bc I did a few things to help out w/ the WLAN autoconfig. Well, you did the whole plug in ethernet deal... sorry I was of no help >.<

 

If anyone is using Dox's enhanced inf file/s and run a sli setup, make sure to disable sli before using your DVD players. None of my media players will function when I have sli enabled. This may not be for all, but for those whos dvd players arent working with his inf file try disabling sli first.

 

I don't think it's just Dox's inf. It does the same with the normal 177.92 and .98 infs. But yeah, turning off SLi works. A bit inconvenient though because you have to reset every time you disable/enable.

EDIT: I thought I'd a add a link to the other thread about stuttering where I've uploaded a screenshot using the DPC Latency tester recommended by Shyster. Looks pretty bad. Not sure what it means in practical terms though.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=298920&page=4

Has anybody else tried this tool? How does it look on your system? Mine is all over the place and spiking even when just surfing the Internet, while my old Alienware desktop is mostly flat and perfectly behaved.

 

It might be the case you don't have the bridge between both cards installed. In other words it is bad setup issue but simple to correct. Without this bridge SLi suffers.

To confirm you have to open your notebook and check your cards. I think there is a pic somwhere on this forum, if anyone has it please post.

I tried the tool in the past and got bad results too. If SLi is bridged and the problem remains, then return the notebook for examination or even a new one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. That is all I can say. It might be a bad mobo, bad video cards whatever, it is a systemic problem hard to debug (most shops don't have the skills to debug it so they say it is normal). It wouldn't be a problem if there was no evidence of similar systems working fine.

This problem is difficult to debug as it seams that everything is working fine except for games. Furthermore you should not have the need to go a search for drivers (sound etc etc etc) as the standard Clevo ones should be good enough to solve the stuttering issue.

Vista x64 should play games fine as evidence shows that does well with others.

Trance
PS: I have the exact same problem as you (i too love COD4 and other games). So much I disabled SLi. Unfortunately I have not returned it to the shop as I needed the putter so bad for work so couldn't "waste" more time (not regreting). Furthermore I spent the trial time trying to solve the problem, so basically getting a new one was a no go unless I made some noise but I did not have the time make it. Don't fall on this "trap".

 

I'm not sure where I'd stand if I opened up the laptop; probably best just to return it for a refund (which I'm in the process of arranging anyway).

You're right though, I agree that nobody should have to look for different drivers to get a new system working properly.

I actually just turned the SLi off and the latency checker is much better behaved. Still not as good as my 3-year-old Alienware, which is a completely flat line, and there are still frequent spikes, but although the trend is the same, all the bars are below 500 microseconds in the green area.

Fortunately, I still have my desktop computer for my work at home so I'm in a position to get this sent back.

 

If I were you, I'd put the notebook on a waist-high, sturdy table, with an anti-static workpad under it, and an anti-static wrist-guard on, and then I'd stand at the table right next to it, but not so that I was blocking the available light and putting the notebook into shadow when I opened it up.


On your warranty - you'll be standing exactly where you are now, with a valid warranty still in effect, unless you grab things on the inside and start tearing them out, or try to see if the notebook was thirsty and just needed a glass of water poured into it.

Opening your computer up will not, in and of itself, have any effect on your warranty.

 

Sorry if I missed this earlier, but problems with stuttering have been solved by removing the battery when playing games.

 

Why? Because the polling by the battery monitor creates too much latency on the FSB, or what?

 

Okay, I'll give it a try when I have a bit of time.

I already tried the trick with removing the battery after reading the other thread on stuttering. Didn't do anything for me.

 

I had a go at that and it's a bit scarey.

It looks like I have to remove the back cover, two fans and connectors, and the VGA modules themselves. I'm good at taking stuff apart and bad at putting it back together, and I'd really rather not trust myself with that risk in a two-week old, £2300 computer!

 

hehe... it's that scary in there huh? eeeek

 

Have you run DPC Latency Checker on the system, and then tried to correlate any huge latencies with the process(es) causing those latencies?


You might also try to explore whether there are any undue latencies with PCI (however, this is something I just hit on while googling, so I know next to nothing about it and whether it's something that could in fact be a problem). I came across a tool called PCI Latency Tool that can be d/l'ed from guru3d.com here.

It might be worth a run to see if it finds anything; however, use your common-sense, and don't run anything that doesn't suss out right on the A/V or isn't supported on your OS.

 

Thanks for the tip, but the latency tool seems to be for XP only. I was also just reading a thread in TweakGuides ( http://forums.tweakguides.com/showthread.php?t=1529) and apparently PCI latency doesn't apply anymore to PCI-E cards.

 

I have no idea whats wrong with the unit but as far as I am concerned if it behaves like you describe it qualifies as a broken unit and you shouldn't play around with drivers nor check the insides of the computer. I mean that computer should play games when it comes out of the box and then, if you want increase performance and tweaks you should, for your own pleasure and joy, play around with settings, drivers and whatnot.

In the best of cases send it over for them to look at. In the even better case arrange with them to send you a new one and then ship them this one. And as a worst solution ask for a refund and reorder somewhere else if you don't like the guys .

 

Completely agree. The collection/refund process is already underway, but all the delays and impossibility of getting through to the company's support (because of their big transition after being taken over by a larger company) is not giving me any confidence so instead of letting them look at it I've ordered the Comanche SLi (same machine) from Kobalt.

I'm still trying to work out what's wrong though because it bugs the hell out of me, and it seems such a shame to have such an otherwise amazing machine just sat on my desk not doing anything useful.

 

Ah well, it was just something I hit on during a quick google, and I thought I'd through it up there to see if anything stuck. Thanks for the feedback on it.

 

It sounds like an SLi driver issue for sure. Have you tried running with just a single card to see if it still does this? If not I would try that, to rule out the SLi possibility.

 

Yeah, I'm wondering about the SLi set-up.

Yes, I have tried it without SLi. The anomalies I've found with this are:

1. Crysis running MUCH smoother with SLi disabled, and not getting better frame rates with SLi enabled.
2. In the DPC latency checker, the spikes for poor latency are much worse in SLI, although still a bit suspect with the single card as the trends are the same but not as pronounced.
3. DVD player crashes with laptopvideo2go drivers when SLi is enabled.

The stuttering issue is present in both cases.

 

Did you have this issue with the stock drivers? If so have you tried reverting to older Vista SLi drivers to see if this fixes the stuttering issue? And how are your GPU temps and ambient temps, have you opened up your system to see if the GPU's are installed correctly? Its looking quite likely you will need an RMA, but its always good to test what you can before you send something back.

 

Yes, it was the same with the stock drivers, except for point 3, which applies to everybody with this machine anyway I think. All temps seem to be fine. It was suggested above that I check the SLi bridge but having looked at the amount of dismantling involved to get to it I'd rather not risk it on a brand-new computer.

No RMA I'm afraid. It's only two weeks old so it's going back for a straight refund. I've ordered from a different reseller (the original one was and still is taking too long to get anything done).

 

Well you've made a good decision regardless, I wish you better luck and happiness with your new laptop!

 

If only I knew.

But I'll give it a run with and without the battery as soon as, would be interesting to attribute the problem to something as there have been some very high latencies running recently (it was from your advice on another thread that I tried it, so thanks for that too!).

 

The tool does work for Vista, have run it on several Vista desktops since finding out about it on here.

 

Doesn't on mine I'm afraid. Error during install and error when trying to run. This is the PCI latency tool by the way, not the DCP latency.

 

Definitely got a dud laptop! I was just watching some streamed champions' league football through media player, the sound was going haywire, DCP latency checker exclusively in the red, and then the computer abruptly shut itself off. On attempting to power on again, it would shut off again after 2-3 seconds. It rebooted after about 5 attempts.

I wonder if there's an overheating problem too. Although checking temperatures before didn't highlight a problem.

 

Sounds, at the least, like totally botched drivers. Probably best that you've got an RMA for it.

 

Well there is something definitely up with Vista. I love Vista but comparing SLI in Vista to XP is like day and night. Completely stutter free in XP while stuttering in Vista. Not all games like I said sutter in Vista. I also did like you disabled one GPU and yep those games that had stuttering ran smooth though with lower framerates. Now the fun part those games that do stutter in Vista with SLI does not stutter in XP.

So do like me you won´t regret it, dual boot XP and Vista I can guarantee you won´t be dissapointed.

Also as I said some drivers do have problem with SLI.

 

I wouldn't mind trying XP as part of the diagnosis at least. But I don't suppose you know how to install XP on a laptop without a floppy drive for the SATA drivers?

 

Yes I do, slipstream the SATA drivers along with XP onto a bootable CD.

 

Or get an XP install cd with SP1 (or SP2/3) on it already. I think you can (still?) request these from Microsoft if you show them that you have a license for XP, among other ways of getting it (other than doing it yourself - here's a guide for doing it yourself: http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sp2_slipstream.asp )

 

I tried that once and Windows Setup completely ignored it and still tried to look for the drivers in the floppy drive.

My XP Pro disc has service pack 2. But even so, I get to the "Press F6 to install third party drivers", then it says "...Setup will load support for the following mass storage device(s): **none**. I press "S" to specify additional device, and it says "Setup could not find a floppy drive on your machine to load OEM drivers from floppy disk".

The same happened when I once tried creating a bootable XP disc with just the SATA drivers. Am I doing it wrong?

 

have you tried using Nlite??