Why dont other manufactures use intel desktop cpu?

Hey im seeing some crazy big laptops with amazing cooling systems from msi, acer...probably superior to clevos cooling and well capable of handling more than a 7700hq/7820hk. So why dont they? Why is clevo the only one?

 

Probably because it costs more iirc

Clevo basically holds the market on the niche enthusiast area I would think but I could be wrong of course.

 

Many people would be happy to pay more. I think its a niche market because of limited availability and popularity. Clevo as a company is not close to as popular as asus/msi/acer... and is not available at most retailers or advertised as much. I think if these big companies started producing intel desktop cpu laptops they would be a great hit. For example the only amd ryzen desktop cpu laptop i know of the asus 702zc flew off the shelves at bestbuy and sold out for a while now.

 

The market might disagree. Last year and this year, laptop sales figures appear to show average purchase prices well below $1,000, with the $300 and under range rising 19% last year, and over $300 dropping in sales around the same percentage.

But it comes down to priorities. iPhone unit sales rose slightly, and look at how much the iPhone X costed.

 

702zc is a mixed bag in my opinion

4GB vram on a soldered GPU was a miss in my book.

Also not sure if overclocking was possible on that machine, but I was certainly interested in it. Went with a used laptop instead but I wouldnt consider myself as part of the general demographic.

 

Because enthusiast laptops are a subset of a subset of the market. Walk into HP, Dell, or Lenovo with a business case for what you're describing, and you'd be laughed out of the room.

 

Your right that laptop could have been better especially gpu wise but just the fact it had that cpu i think what made it sell so well. Was also interested in it but happy went clevo/coffee lake instead. Better gpu and imo cpu

 

Nothing stopped say msi creating titan or acer the predator. Those are for sure enthusiest laptops and dont see reason why they didnt include desktop cpus in them, which im sure would habe helped their sales as well

 

I agree, the Titan and the Predator would have been good candidates for an LGA CPU. It's an engineering challenge, but would've been very cool!

 

And the GX800 as well, but Asus joined MSI and Acer in woosing out.

Ultimately its very similar silicon making up the LGA and BGA CPUs but when you're talking the top of the high end halo products, the extra binning and OC potential of the desktop chips hurts leaving the P870 out on its own. OC a BGA 6820HK or 7820HK to the max and if lucky it'll be able to hit 6700K/7700K stock clocks...

Interesting to hear reports of good sales on the AMD Asus. It is a compelling value for CPU performance proposition (at least until we see what the "mobile i9" can do vs stock un-overclockable R7-1700)

 

That's very encouraging indeed. The Asus has had some teething problems, but hopefully sales success means that the company will dedicate itself to sorting everything out in a timely manner.

 

Right, i think that models success is a sign that they and more should start adding desktop cpus to laptops and it should be less underground, which will also help the technology evolve. I until recently and all my friends never heard of clevo or its resellers and didnt know a desktop cpu in a laptop even existed until i told them about mine.

 

Extra development costs and market sizes really.

 

because desktop CPU's are hot as balls and cause more issues.

 

Just curious. How old are you? Serious question.

I've had laptops with desktop CPU's in em for about a decade now.

 

Because they aren't castrated with low base clocks because they're lower binned silicon that often go into thin'n'bendys aimed at the kiddy "dragons and flames make it fast" market who are so clueless that they need to be protected from their own stupidity with unavoidable firmware throttling.

See I can play the simplistic generalising game too.

 

dragons and flames make it fast

Still better than flaming notebook
I don't mind desktop CPU's in notebook if they could keep them cool under load, but they can't. If I need to buy a cooling pad and mod my heatsink and basicially turn my ntoebook into a desktop, then it's pointless to buy a notebook in the first place, at least in my oppinion.

 

You can just set profiles for intended scenarios.

Its not like you need to run a desktop processor full blast when playing a video or web browsing.

 

Yeah, I hear that argument over and over again and I don't get it. If you're going to nerf the LGA to BGA levels, why get a LGA in the first place? If I want to do a rendering on the go or play something like Witcher 3 on the go, then I don't want to get out a cooling pad and other crap just to keep it cool. I like performance as much as the next guy, but when it becomes a drag, then i'd prefer going for something weaker that causes less problems.

 

Thats not my argument.

 

It is, I used one scenario that when I don't want to have a cooling pad with me and still need performance I am basicially forced to nerf it to BGA levels unless I want it to heat up like a furnace. I mean looking at your signature you run your haswell at low speeds because of the same thing.

 

It is NOT. So kindly stop attributing that to me.

If the laptop is not capable of cooling the chip then its a faulty design plain and simple and would likely be due in for a recall. As its a non functioning product.

I run my haswell at low speeds because the PSU blew up and damaged the vrms on the motherboard. Otherwise I would be pushing this thing to its limits daily. Also dont try to use that against me as I dont consider myself a part of the demographic that cant handle a little warmth under my palm.

You can either read my argument for what it is or just continue to insert your own counter point into my dialogue. I even presented examples to make sure the point was understood and yet you still looked past it.

 

There is literally not a single notebook that can handle a desktop CPU out of the box even on stock turbo settings. Everyone here has delidded, got a coolingpad, lapped etc. to make it even somewhat work.
The case warmth is the least of your problems when you have a 95c CPU.

Great example, because people buy a heavy notebook with desktop CPU for basic video or web browsing.

If I want something semi portable then I'd rather go for a mini-ITX build that is cheaper, cooler and more powerful than a LGABook.

imo all LGABooks are overrated. If they release a notebook that can actually handle a desktop CPU properly, that's when I would recommend it, but as long as i see 90sc under gaming and the s***show going on I'll keep laughing at people who spend insane amount of money for absolutely nothing.

 

Desktop enthusiasts are still delidding CPU's as well, its not a mystery that intel uses crap TIM on anything besides the xeons. Yes, quite a few members modded their scenarios to run their machines at peak when at their desk at home. Its not like their incapable of running in nothing but that scenario. This is not a vacuum. Im quite sure no ones laptop has blown up because they used their DTR away from their desk at home.

I guess your the type buys machines to strictly carry out single tasks and nothing but those tasks then? Is playing a video a task that is beneath you? How about browsing the web? Is that also beneath you?

I dont know about you but I use my laptop for everything. Teamspeak, browsing, reading pdf's, powershell, notepad++, music, games and sometimes all at the same time. If my laptop cant handle those tasks then I switch to something else. My machines work for me, not the other way around.

 

The thing is Desktop enthusiasts delidd for 5.2+ghz, which in a notebook isn't even possible. You can maybe run 5ghz watching your desktop if you're lucky. The point I'm making is simple, if you need something portable with a lot of performance an LGAbook isn't the right thing since it almost requires you to have it stationed at home or else you'll have issues with cooling. Most people spend a lot of money on their notebook so they are not forced to open the damn thing and mod the crap out of it.

Again, if you need something semi portable like most people who buy an LGABook, then a mini-ITX buils is so much better and cheaper it's not even funny.

I buy a notebook for a specific use, yes, that's what people normally do. When I buy a notebook I need something portable, if i buy a powerful notebook that means I'm doing a lot of heavy tasks on it. Why would I go out and buy an LGABook for watching videos on the go? That's just dumb.

My point is still the same, if I buy something portable but ends up not being portable when I want to use it's full "potential" then why even bother? Why not getting something with similair performance which the LGAbook would have on the go and still portable with better temps instead?

I don't hate desktop CPU's in notebook, I hate desktop CPU's in notebook with insufficient cooling (thus far almost all notebooks suffer from this). People would rather buy a BGAbook and have performance without worrying about it breaking. This is why BGAbooks are more common than LGABooks as well.

 

There's your issue. Your generalizing unto others while unable to see the ridiculous methods to your own ends while refusing to be open minded that people use their laptops their way, which is not always going to be YOUR way.

Your welcome to find me an example of someone with a DTR that honestly cant use his machine away from home due to limitations in heat displacement. Ill entertain your notion if you can do so. Until then it still doesnt change that fact that you were attributing an argument I didnt make, all due to your inability to see a machine uses beyond your own means.

BGAbooks are mainstream because they are likely cheaper and lighter. If the opposite was true then you'd likely see a reversal. Its not like people buy BGA because its BGA. Most of the boutique shops that are present here sell both its not like one is available the other is not in most instances.

A miniITX isnt all that great if your need it for flights, I used to use one myself, and enjoy SFF desktops quite a bit. However you either have to spend more to make dimension requirements or spend more to keep the weight down as you are required to conform to both when flying.

 

Yeah how could I assume people buy notebooks for portability. I must be crazy. I'll go buy a notebook so it stays at home being twice as expensive as a PC and twice as weak. Good plan.

BGA books cheaper?

Go buy a tablet if you want something on flight, there's barely even enough room for a Clevo LGABook, Just imagine a guy in a plane pulling that thing out with a cooling pad burning his legs off while he's trying to render something

Also I don't care about YOUR Way. The thread is about why in general notebooks with desktop CPU's are so rare, and I basicially summed up why. Nobody cares about the minority except the minority.

 

I have the fastest and supposedly the hottest desktop chip for clevo the 8700k on p775tm. Under load stress testing with undervolt highest reached was 82 degrees. This is bone stock without delid, cooling pad...Is that not sufficient enough if to keep it cool all thats needed is undervolt?

Where people have issues from what i read is with a couple of older models and much more to with gpus than cpu.

People arent buying these laptops for lightweight easy portabilty. There is no such thing . You gotta saccrafice some for performance and we value performance more than lightweightness and long battery life.

 

I have a 9900K CPU in my P775tm @ 7.75ghz on 10c.

Talk is cheap, isn't it?

 

I have a tablet, My plex server transcodes for it, which is also my laptop. It also transcodes it into smaller footprints for when Im on that flight. Then I can play it directly when im off that flight, and continue transcoding from it when I am in the hotel.

Everyone has their scenarios that they operate within. I dont assume everyone operates under my same circumstances, thats just lazy to make that assumption. This is the main issue in your own argument.

Again, waiting on your example of a DTR that cant operate without a cooling pad. Until then all I see is a member who isnt here to exchange dialogue but to "win an argument the internet" with a falsely attributed argument for you to counter.

Shaky ground to be operating on, all you had to do is admit you screwed up but here you are doubling down with barely a coherent response and no actual data to back up your claims.

 

I have posted numerous screenshots and test results on the user thread. You can also read from other users as well with new coffee lake.machines that their cpus are fine. it is not the cpu that takes the hit, It is gpu specifically gtx1080 with this model. On P870 1080 is good . Sli not sure

 

I use English yet you seem to have to translate all dialogue into a message that is convenient for you your position. Its nothing less than talking to an ideologue.

The onus of proof is on you, you made the claim. Now go back it up, its not the other way around.

 

How about you take the time to read up on those threads before making blind statements like" There is literally not a single notebook that can handle a desktop CPU " or all stock desktop cpu laptops reach throttling temperatures. The data is in user experiences. I am example of positive one with many others can read about in user threads. No point in fear mongering without checking user results or having a new system of your own to judge by.

 

Danish made the claim, the onus is on him to prove it.

If he cant then "Thats that". Move along until he can learn how to argue as anything further would be a waste of time for everyone involved.

 

Right but this is not the first time hes made such claims. I actually almost bought into it and going with a bga because of him. Only until i read up on user experiences and did research did i decided to go for it and glad i did especially after seeing great results through lots of my testing. i hope he starts listening and doing proper research because these statements he makes are wrong and dangerous.

 

Always look at both sides of an proposed solution to see if there is merit to claims made.

Unless Danish is someone you had already held confidence in there is no reason to believe without references to support a solution.

These statements can be dangerous as you say but ultimately when its all said and done it comes down to the individual to question or blindly accept.

Luckily this forum has its own share for LGA love who are more than happy to provide data and share their experiences and sometimes quite loud about it too but at least I haven't seen intellectually dishonest arguments unlike here however that is anecdotal. Im not omnipresent lol.

Im happy to exchange ideas, there are criticisms to be made in every market, nothing is perfect. But it has to be tangible first.

@Papusan @Mr. Fox

You guys have quite a bit of experience in what I would call the "DTR" realm. You have perspective I lack. Willing to share?

 

Will never happen. Post after post, threads after threads... Always the same wrong info!!

More of the same! You find it everywhere in the forum.

Edit. This one was from today (12/15/2017)

 

Capitalism say

If Clevo have no market for LGA socket monster

They would not be refreshing every generation with multiple product lines

Talk down LGA's for being in bigger heavier less portable notebooks, fair enough, but don't call them hot running or problematic that's just bloody fake news.

How about let's look at brand wide return rates of Acer, Razer, Alienware with their tripods, all the other BGA notebooks and compare with Clevo LGAs and see which have more CPU related problems and overheating!!!

 

HEHEHEHEHE! This guy is hilarious. Sounds like a jealous someone thats just mad that he doesnt have his own little fire breathing beast to play with.

 

It is easy to take things out of context to fit an agenda. The libtarded mainstream news media liars do it every day and get paid for it. Every Intel desktop CPU needs to be delidded if you want excellent temps. It does not make any difference what platform it will be installed in, they all run too hot as shipped. Intel should just go ahead and leave them loose and stop selling them with the IHS attached, because anyone that is technically competent and determined to have the best thermal performance is going to make the delid procedure the first thing they do. Testing temps before delid is just a waste of time. No point to installing it for that reason before it is delidded. (Other reasons, such as testing bin quality and overclocking capacity, then returning the poorly binned samples for a refund/exchange, are valid reasons to test before delid.)

Any and all BGA turdbooks marketed in the "high performance" niche are a total joke and a total waste of time and money from my perspective.

 

All you need is to put Vcore around 1.270v and you can easy run 5.1/5.2GHz stable all day on whatever 7820 BGA chips you got soldered on the MB. No need for silicon lottery (you have to try several MB for binning BGA chips ). Because minimum clocks you should expect is 4.9GHz. Strange not all reach this goal if this is as easy as explained in the link. YEEES. And BGABOOKs have superior cooling... We all know this. Thinner the better. Sarcasm!!

But, but this can't be true, Fox. See for yourself

 

BGA has its place, I dont have a problem with its existence and it allows for most to consolidate to one machine even if it does compromise the ends of the spectrum. For example the easiest example is college students. Its not uncommon for students to use their computers for school and also play games and such.

The "optimal" setup would be to have a desktop in a dorm and a laptop with great battery life for classes but having two systems means more expense, then having a medium to transfer documents (ex. Flash drive, external drive). For convenience you can get a cheaper mainstream gaming laptop that would sacrifice battery life a bit and also sacrifice gaming performance to check both boxes. Sure, its not the best the prior example but joins them together in one package. I have no problem with this.

You can also get examples like iunlock and his R4, I think thats impressive but its also exceptional, you cant generalize the exceptional.

Then the question becomes; can you do this with LGA machines? I imagine you can get power consumption pretty low on the CPU side but I dont know about the GPU or how long you can extend the life of the battery for when your working within that scenario (say at classes for 6 hours).

I just dont understand if you desire to have 1 machine for most of your tasks. What is wrong with setting profiles for those scenarios. I have this problem on OCN as well. Some would prefer to have multiple desktops in areas they travel instead of just having 1 DTR that can handle those tasks because carrying laptops is too much trouble. If I can do this on one machine, why would I spend more money on additional machines for narrowed tasks.

Lastly it saddens me quite a bit that this conversation turned this direction as I had a rather pleasing conversation with Danish via PM's talking about modding laptops and stuff, rather enjoyed it. I suppose the signs were there in the thread I made inquiring about the Ranger but everyone is different in the temperament and I try not to judge someone based on a short conversation especially if its constructive.

If I am incorrect in my line of thought please feel free to enlighten. I enjoy laptops quite a bit and so your guys' perspective will refine recommendations I give to others.

That being said, I appreciate that my laptop is not BGA. The power supply blew within a minute of use after I bought this off ebay and junked some of the VRMs I think (Cant overclock at all). I can replace my motherboard for about 200 USD. I imagine if I had a BGA system it would cost more due to the fact that the CPU, motherboard, GPU, and in some cases the RAM are all part of the package. Leaving GPU upgrades out since its not part of the thread topic. Im ignorant, I dont have the confidence to replace the VRMs on my unit so I can just purchase the motherboard will do so after finishing school hopefully this month.

Sorry about the wall of text, when parsing words and trying to not tip scales either way is a consequence it seems...

 

You mean the conservative mainstream media, right? I often see them take things out context or outright lie about things to push their agenda. I also didn't realize we were making this political.

 

No, I mean the media... period. Whatever their agenda is, left or right, they have no problem being liars to push their agenda. It is not political, but it can be if that is their agenda. The underlying problem is not political, it is a matter of fabricating a web of lies and partial truth for the sole purpose of manipulating public opinion to advance their agenda. They actually think they have a right and an obligation to do that, unfortunately. They should report on facts only, and keep their personal opinions to themselves.

Anyone that does not think the same kind of crap happens in retail marketing, including "high performance" turdbooks is only kidding themselves. Nothing has to be true or accurate if it sells more of their crap to people willing to believe it.

It is certainly different here when opinions and experience of others are solicited.

 

I dont think so,

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/vqTmyf







1434 Eur m-itx config (ops i did not select the hdd also included in Tornado F5, so 1470 Eur)

2311 Eur Tornado F5

so its less 1000 of difference for a real portability (look at cooler I choose for mitx, do you mind to overclock with it? )












Ready to brag and drag your mini itx rig now??






no offfence

 

Oh man, this thread has some gold in it coming from all angles. I am enjoying this thread, haha.

And here I thought it was just me. I must agree Danishblunt can be a bit of an abrasive character and sometimes premature to voice his opinions and conclusions with such finality. I just assumed it came with the tech territory and nerdier forums/discussions. This is the internet after all. People are unique and have strong opinions, for better or worse. I try not to fault people for being themselves, but I do recognize the consistency in abrasiveness and short-sighted spouts written as fact. But I'm also not saying he doesn't add any value to discussions either. No hard feelings here personally.

To those concerned with power and operability and unlocked hardware, why not just fabricate your own slabtop? What ever happened to that concept? I'm surprised it hasn't gained a bit more traction myself.

 

Because they run too hot isnt a valid argument. there is nothing to compare between a bga and lga. Were talking more than twice the multi core performance over say a 7820hq which in some systems run just as hot or hotter. If someone wants something with great battery life, lightweight and easy to carry around often than yeh theres place for that and go get ur ultrabook. But there place for people that want or need max performance in a laptop regardless of being bigger, less efficient ...and as users have pointed out it works out quite well and in asus case can sell quite well. Imo they are not enough lga notebooks in production and not known enough in the mainstream. After owning one i find now the thought of paying just as much or more money for half the performance insane.

 

Mostly people don't need a 4.4-5ghz CPU to get the experience they want to be fair, games are by far more GPU bound and office tasks don't need it.

If you had a strict 180W budget you will get more performance putting 45W into the CPU and 100W into the GPU rather than 95W into the CPU and 50W into the GPU.

Intel moved to BGA for various reasons so most people stick with a BGA chip as its the sensible engineering choice.

 

That's why he has no signature bro. I told him many times, with all your bashing of BGA and spreading FUD, why don't you have a signature to show us the gem that you own? he just ignores it.

He is not liked in this community who has a lot of enthusiasts who are passionate about LGA and DTRs and his spreading of FUD everywhere that they run super hot and cannot handle the heat is just going overboard. What do you think all the lurkers that are not members yet think when they read his posts. This is bad.

 

This is an enthusiast community who want to tweak and overclock, of course overclocking a chip already at 1GHz above the mobile rate will need some help.

Even the 65W chips (which get included in your statement) run a lot faster than the mobile chips under stress and run pretty cool.

I think you need to go away and look at your research again and perhaps refrain from such broad statements.