Will purchase a P775TM1. Advice sought on components.

Dear NBR experts, after some deliberation whether to buy a discounted GT73 or a P775TM1, I've chosen the clevo, mainly because of the 'stealth' look of the chassis and the possibility to upgrade. The goal is to build a laptop that will last for some five years, offering good game performance and functioning as a workplace and quick-to-set-up multimedia center (we don't have a TV, but a beamer, we don't like a 'permanent' PC and its cables in our living room, we often move the laptop from our workplace in house to the living area, so no 'buy a desktop instead' comments please).

I'm playing mostly graphic intensive Action RPG games such as Deus Ex, Witcher 3, Fallout, probably Cyperpunk 2077 when it's released, and lesser demanding RPGs such as Divinity. I don't care for high framerates or response times, but I do want the highest graphic options when gaming - I'd rather play at a locked 30fps ultra than 60fps medium settings.

My budget is around €2500. This could increase to €2800 if I wait a little more. I know the RTX2080 is just around the corner, but I'm skeptical as to its implementation in laptops, which will probable be after January 2019 anyway. A budget of €2500 with the gtx 1080 means I'll have to make some compromises regarding the processor, RAM, and/or disk space.

My first question is about the screen. I'm doubting between the 144hz 1080 panel, which has been touted here as the best panel, the QHD G-Sync, which has been criticised for banding, and the 4K G-Sync screen. As I don't need high framerates, I wonder whether I'll benefit from the 144hz screen. The 4K screen is tempting, not because I'll be able to game at 4K in future games, but as it offer video quality at 4K, which will become more common in the next few years. On the other hand, I don't know if the image quality of 4K at 17inch differs a lot from 2K or 1080p. It is also €150 more compared to the 1080p screen. The 2K resolution appears to be ideal for the size of the screen, but how bad is it (response times, banding)? The newer, non-G-sync version is better, but I think I'll really need G-sync when playing at framerates as low as 30fps. I would appreciate your views on this.

My second question is about the processor. I'm not interested in overclocking because it will push temperatures and hence fan noise. Obviously the 8700K is the best choice performance wise, but this will stretch the budget to €2700 when configured with 16 GB RAM (I prefer 32 GB to be future proof). A 8700 will cost a bit less, will still be adequate for feeding the gtx1080, will be future proof with its 12 threads, consumes less power and produces less heat. Dropping the processor to a 8400 means I can stay within the €2500 budget. The 8400 is capable enough for gaming, but I'm concerned about how future proof six cores/threads will be within five years. Upgrading the processor later on is of course an option IF the P775TM1 will allow a 9000 series to be installed at all.

My third question is about RAM. I prefer 32 GB in order to have sufficient for future games, but this comes at a hefty price tag, even for 2400mhz. However, I suppose I could wait for a price drop and install an extra 16 GB later on. This seems like the sensible choice.

The HD would be a Crucial MX500 1TB non-nvme SSD, which provides adequate speed for gaming and office applications. In a later phase I could still install more/faster storage.

I'm planning to buy the OBSIDIAN tools for fan control so a prema bios is not necessary (I won't be overclocking and I doubt if I'll hit power throttling problems, especially with a 8700 or less powerful proc).

 

Screen - It's 17", 1080p or 1440p are fine. And even if you're not worried about frames so much, 144Hz is pretty smooth looking. I have a standalone 144Hz monitor at home and even titles that don't run st high FPS look better on it IMO.

Processor - Can probably afford to cut corners here if your biggest CPU load comes from gaming.

RAM - I say just get 16GB now and upgrade later if needed. I don't think I've had any trouble with 16GB on any game and the P775TM1 is easy to upgrade.

 

Follow this advice:

http://www.notebookreview.com/feature/identify-user-upgradeable-notebooks/

You will be spending a lot for this device. Understand up front what you can and will be able to upgrade/replace. Some items may not be replaceable without some degree of modification/hacking.

WRT the screen, many others have successfully replaced their original displays. There are many posts describing the challenges and solutions.

You don’t control the BIOS. If you purchase the BIOS from a Prema partner, you will have more flexibility but you no longer will have assurances of official regular BIOS updates when new hardware is announced. Not like you can go to Asus and download the updated Z370 BIOS to support the upcoming 9th gen Intel chipsets.

RAM and SSDs should be straightforward. Same as upgraded thermal paste. You have flexibility here at your convenience.

 

Screen: 1080p 144Hz

CPU: i7-8700 or i5-8400

RAM: 2x8GB DDR4 3000MHz CL16 or 2666MHz CL15

 

Ram is really easy to add so don't fret getting 2x8 and you can add 2x8 when it's cheaper down the road.

 

Do you think faster memory is worth the surplus price? Especially gaming-wise there are only a few fps difference between 2400mhz and 2666mhz or above. https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews..._Memory_Performance_Benchmark_Analysis/9.html

I would rather invest the €50 (or more) in a better processor or more storage.

 

Not important IMO. The money is better spent on processor or storage like you mentioned.

 

On a different note, @ yrekabakery I see you have the p750 with the 8600K. Any reason/advantages you chose this over the 8400 or 8700? Would you recommend it over these two?

 

Ram speed is the cherry on top after everything else usually.

The k is tunable which offers advantages to many customers.

 

Depends on what memory options your resellers offers and how they are priced. At many resellers I've looked at, the 2666MHz or 3000MHz options aren't much more than the base 2400MHz. Especially if that 2400MHz is CL17, which is really sub-par. If the reseller offers the 2400MHz in CL14, that's another route you can go.

Because it's overclockable, which I wanted. Also it's significantly cheaper than the 8700 and not much more than the 8400 (which my reseller didn't offer at the time anyway), so it had the best perf/price ratio for me in terms of gaming.

 

And the RAM is relatively easy to upgrade later. Get the best for that price/performance.

The CPU is harder to replace. Get the best you can as well. If your reseller segregates chips for a fee, you might want to pursue that. If you opt for a lower bin chip now, you may not be able to squeek out that performance you may want in the future.

 

Finishing my order with laptopparts4less (nearby reseller). I'll probably go with the p751 for greater mobility.

Clevo P751TM1-G 15.6" FHD IPS/4K/144Hz - nVidia GTX 10x0 Desktop - Intel Hexa Core
- Screen (Our laptops are delivered with screens that have no bright and dead pixels): 15.6" FHD IPS (1920x1080) non-glare LED 144Hz G-Sync NEW
- GPU: nVidia GTX 1080 8.0Gb GDDR5X (Heatsink Upgrade + CPU Delid)
- Processor: Intel Hexa Core i7-8700 (3.2-4.6Ghz) 12Mb cache 65W
- Thermal Paste: TGC Liquid Metal (CPU and GPU)
- Memory: Kingston HyperX 16Gb DDR4 2400Mhz (2x 8Gb)
- HDD/SSD: Crucial MX500 500Gb SSD
- M.2 SSD: No M.2 module
- Wireless: Intel AC-9260 M.2 (1.73Gbps, 802.11AC) + BT 5.0
- Keyboard: Azerty Belgian Multicolor Backlit Keyboard
- 4G Module: No 4G Module
- Operating System: Windows 10 Pro NL 64-bit + Installation
- Battery: 8 Cell 82WH Battery
- Powerpack: 230W Powerpack + 330W Powerpack
- Warranty: 3 year Pickup & Return warranty
- USB-Stick: No USB-Stick
- Bag: No bag
- Antivirus: No Antivirus
Total: €2,581.00

What's the size and weight difference between the 230w and 330w powerpack? It's difficult to estimate based on pictures alone. Pondering whether it's worth to buy both a 330w psu for working/playing at home & a 230w when on the way. If the difference is minimal I'll just go with the 330w one.

 

@BrightSmith -

330W = 200 x 100 x 44 ~900g
230W = 180 x 90 x 35 ~ 908g

The 230W isn't really enough to power the laptop with a 1080, but I think you're aware of this already. It's the same weight, just a little bit bigger - probably not worth it unless you need to use your laptop in two locations frequently.

 

I wouldn't recommend a GTX 1080 in the P750. Its heatsink can't handle the full power of the 1080, even with LM and max fans, because it's a re-used last-gen design intended for the 1060 and 1070. The 1080 isn't an official P750 config from Clevo, some resellers are just putting it in and hoping for the best, i.e. letting it sit at 90C throttle temp under load. The P775 got redesigned non-unified heatsinks this gen which suits the 1080 better.

IMO the best config for the P750 is the i7-8700K and GTX 1070 because its heatsink design favors the CPU more than the GPU. The 8700 throttles at stock due to its 65W power limit, unless you raise it in ThrottleStop/XTU, so if the 8700K is about the same price, I would get that instead for the better stock performance OOTB without tweaking.

If you insist on the P750 and 1080 though, you need to install the upgraded heatsink. That was the only way I could tame my 1080.

 

Then again the 8700 offers more performance than a mobile chip and giving some power to the gpu may help the 1080 stretch its legs a bit which will matter much more for gaming.

 

Thanks @XMG this saves me €60.

@ yrekabakery I'm paying the reseller for a heatsink upgrade, so I hope it can handle the gtx1080

With regard to the processor, the problem is that raising power means raising heat, which either leads to more noise due to aggressive cooling or throttling due to heat. For my purposes a 65w 8700 will feed the 1080 adequately, especially when undervolted. I could be wrong / too optimistic, of course

Edit: @Meaker@Sager precisely!

 

Taking an 8700, leaving it stock, perhaps a de-lid and a good undervolt sounds ideal.

 

Actually the GTX 1080 option in the P75* IS an official option from Clevo - as you discovered you need this to run a 1080 half sensibly in this chassis (see my further comments below).

I would go with the 8700 also, as Meaker said. We delid and some other companies do as well, it can make a good difference to temps but you can also do it yourself.

TBH I'm rather troubled that companies are even offering the 1080 GPU with 1070 HS - this just shouldn't happen. It should ALWAYS come with the HS designed for the 1080 option in this chassis (we always install this by default with a 1080 and I would hope that everyone else does too, but it seems that might not be the case), IMO it's very bad practice.

 

Ah, I missed the heatsink upgrade in your configuration. Have you verified with LaptopParts4Less that their upgrade is the same heatsink as the one I linked?

Yeah capped at 65W will result in less heat and fan noise, but you won't get the full Turbo Boost performance of the 8700 since 4.3GHz on all cores with an undervolt needs about 80W at full load.

Are you sure about that? I've been told otherwise by @Meaker@Sager.

Clevo's website as well lists 1070 as the max:
http://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_prodetail.asp?id=1068&lang=en
http://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_prodetail.asp?id=1069&lang=en

Also, not every shop that sells the P75 has the 1080 as a configurable option. And among the ones that do offer it, nobody that I've seen except you and apparently LaptopParts4Less uses the upgraded heatsink. Everyone else seems content with using the last-gen 1060/1070 heatsink and just letting the 1080 sit at 90C and thermal throttle under full load.

So based on the evidence, it doesn't seem to me that the 1080 is an official Clevo sanctioned spec for the P75. But due to popular demand, some resellers are offering it even though the system can't really handle it without an upgraded heatsink that they don't include.

This is indeed very, very strange to me. During the research phase before purchasing my P750TM1-G, every example of it with the 1080 that I saw, used the 1060/1070 heatsink. I had no idea there even was a different version of the heatsink. And I probably would've stayed oblivious. As luck would have it though, while modding my heatsink to try to tame the 1080, I thought I accidentally ruined one of the heatpipes. So I went on eBay and AliExpress looking for a cheap replacement (since my reseller wanted almost $150 for one). The heatpipe turned out to be fine, but I found that upgraded heatsink for $60 and man did it make a difference on GPU temps.

But anyway, props to you for taking the initiative where other resellers do not.

 

It was not but in the refresh with 8xxx series it did become an official option, that was my mistake early on in the launch.

 

Did the improved heatsink also become standard when the 1080 became official?

 

@yrekabakery I don't know the type of heatsink. @Frits@LaptopParts4Less presents the heatsink as the company's trade secret against the competition, but he promises a 10°C difference (from max 85°/90°C in Firestrike to 75/80°C, without taking into account undervolting) so I'm fine with that. Up until now Frits has been extremely helpful and informative, swiftly answering all my inquiries, so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

With regard to the 8700K one benefit over the 8700 might be that the chances of a large undervolt are bigger? Also, you could completely disable turboboost and raise the base clock to a level where you find a good compromise between performance, heat, and power.

 

I was able to confirm that they do indeed use the heatsink I linked. About a 10C drop is what I saw as well. With that and LM, it's enough to overclock the 1080 (I tested mine at +160/+500) without overheating. It's good to see that LaptopParts4Less is going the extra mile with their upgraded HS and delid and LM options.

The 8700K will undervolt more by virtue of having a higher max Turbo Boost and being better binned than the locked version, but it depends on stock voltage as well. You can't raise the base clock, but you can lower it, or lock the CPU somewhere in-between base clock and max all-core turbo, using ThrottleStop.

 

Thanks for clearing that up, my confidence in my purchase is growing ;-)

 

He he, well it's definitely not a trade secret ;-) The HS comes from Clevo as an official part - further clarification:

- the new HS actually supports the 1060, 1070 and 1080
- it does provide a thermal benefit on all GPU options, but it was specifically brought out to support the 1080 and additional thermal dissipation
- depending on wether a company purchases chassis and GPUs from Clevo as bundles, or if they purchase chassis and GPUs separately, you may find a mix of the HS being offered
- for example, we have the new HS for the 1080 GPUs, but the availability wasn't good enough for us to buy stock in at the time (this was a couple of months ago now) to be able to offer it with the 1060 and 1070 as well.

To answer @yrekabakery 's question - it should be the default option if you purchase chassis from Clevo with the GPUs installed already. Some do, some don't - usually we buy the chassis and GPUs separately, this gives more flexability in our purchasing and stock availability so I can only really speak for us.

 

Apparently the 8700T offers great performance for its TDP, why don't we see this option offered more among Clevo resellers?

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-06...coffee-lake/3/#abschnitt_fazit_und_empfehlung

 

I guess it's not seen as a performance CPU by some companies - to be honest I don't know what our sales volume is like of the 8700T vs the 8700. This page is worth paying special attention to:

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-06...abschnitt_tdp_bei_basistakt_vs_turboverbrauch

It's called a 35W TDP CPU but that's on the base clock which is substantially lower than the base clock of the 8700 (2.4GHz vs 3.2GHz) - the T will pull 112W on full Turbo so depending on what you're running on the CPU it's not going to be substantially cooler than an 8700 when being put under the same load. But definitely less thermal dissipation at idle and low CPU usage.

 

It's all the same silicon and the binning is really not that different between them, it just comes down to clocks and volts.

 

I finally pulled the trigger on a p775TM. I ordered with laptopparts4less. I'll keep you posted about performance & service. Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions!

 

Could you share a photo of that new HS?

 

Sure, but remember that this is for the P751TM1 and not the P775 as per the thread title. Old is on the right, new on the left (sorry for the photo quality, it's the first one I could find in a slight rush before leaving the office!):

 

Forget MXM RTX cards. Either the form factor will be absolutely horrendous or we will get cut down "m" versions. MXM is pretty much dead. Tb3 eGPU is the future as of now.

Hard to tell, 4k would be your choice since the screen has vastly superior color coverage and is overall much superior to the 1440p panel, that being said, you only have a GTX 1080. There are games that won't run at 4k at 30fps or higher and running any game on non native resolution usually looks terrible. Since you care about graphics so much that you don't mind low FPS, gsync is an absolute must.

Since you want to play in high resolutions such as 4k, processor is a non factor.

16GB is enough for most games, if you want to be safe, you can upgrade to 32GB.

Overall, the best thing you can do is purchase a notebook with a 8750H/8850H with 4k screen and add an RTX 2080 ti via eGPU. This will allow you by far best frames per second and quality, especially because of NVIDIAs new DLSS technology which you will love.

 

Er the new one is on the left, old one on the right.

 

Get 2x8GB now and then you can get 2x8 or 2x16 later if you need more for ram. @BrightSmith

 

I did say I was in a rush!

 

Thanks!

 

Thanks for the additional advice, but I've already ordered by now.

Clevo P775TM1-G with the 144hz IPS screen
GTX 1080 with Conductonaut repaste
Delidded 8700 with Conductonaut repaste
2x8 G.Skill Ripjaws 2400mhz
SSD: Crucial MX500 500GB
Wireless: Intel AC-9260 M.2 (1..
Windows 10 Pro
3 years Pickup & return warranty
USB stick with drivers etc
= €2600

Delivery expected within 10 days!

 

Ouch, well hope you enjoy it.

 

Ouch? Don't you mean awesome?

 

Purchasing an already out of date notebook for 2.6K USD isn't exacly awesome
RTX is already out and offers much better performance than pascal, especially with the new AA method it uses.

This guy has an alienware from 2015 with eGPU:
https://www.3dmark.com/fs/16501184

You won't even get close to his performance. While games such as shadow of the tomb raider won't even run maxed 4k. Meanwhile this guy can play the game maxed at 50-60fp on a 2015 aw 15 inch notebook with eGPU.

Sadly SLI scales terrible and causes many games to simply stop working as well, so that route is also mediocre at best. Sadly MXM revisions of the GTX 2080 and 2080TI won't happen for the same reason we don't have a 1080TI in notebooks.

So future proofness is also pretty much not a thing anymore with MXM.

 

I can't be bothered with an eGPU. I would be better off simply buying a desktop then, which I'm not interested in because of the reasons I mentioned in my first post. The 8700 + gtx1080 @FHD will be more than enough for the games I'm playing and will be sufficiently future proof. It's a good price and setup for the kind of performance I need.

 

yeah having to carry around a desktop, monitor, keyboard and speakers is the same as a thin and light + eGPU.

Your response is direcly conflicting with your first post. You said you wanted the most pretty games, even if it meant suffering from FPS loss, yet now you said 1080p is enough. 4K looks much better than 1080p, anyone who does 4k gaming can confirm that. I prefer 1080p since I'm a competitive gamer who wants fluid gameplay and will gladly lower settings for more FPS.

 

Different people have different needs. I want a clean desk, which means no pc tower or eGPU case. I want to move my system from my home office to my living room. I don't want any gamer bling. The P775TM is ideal for my purposes.

Reading some older threads here have convinced me that for a 17 inch screen 144hz FHD is the perfect combination. A better QHD screen option would have swayed me, perhaps. But 4K is unnecessary (and hardly playable with ultra settings unless you go 2080Ti).

 

EGpu gaming performances are not correctly showed with 3dmark, that is a well known problem. You need to do benchmaks in gaming for testing egpu specific performances. Egpu.io is a good place for learning more about that

 

I already saw lots of benchmarks and games. Some perform worse others better, there are games which literally run at 100% speed and then there are games where it gets nerfed by ~10-15%. Sadly this is still way way way more than notebook GPU's can output.

@ BrightSmith
Exacly, saying that an eGPU setup would be the same as purchasing a desktop horribly inaccurate. You can easily transport an eGPU setup, it's just a little box with a cable to your notebook, I really don't see any problems with transport, and saying that you might as well purchase a desktop is absurd.

Also what you pointed out, 4k on current notebook hardware is terrible, unless we talk games that supports SLI decently and you have GTX 1080 in SLI. hence I suggested that if you want future proof portable high resolution experience, you'd need an eGPU setup.

Shadow of the tomb raider won't run maxed out @ 1440P 60FPS on your system. Even a desktop GTX 1080 cannot handle Shadow of the tomb raider 1440p maxed @ 60FPS. Not to mention it's very unlikely you will enjoy cyberpunk at highest settings as well, even at 1440P. The 1080 is a powerful card, but the games are starting to catch up, and as we know CD project, their game will be a graphical beast that will probably only run maxed on an RTX 2080 TI 1080p with some FPS dips here in there into 40s.

 

100% in gaming with a Tb3 egpu? You are so funny! Lol
you don't know what you are talking about that's simple

 

Damn nice have to transport the bread box everywhere you go... Home or outside. Remember easily transportable, LOOL

 

I fail to see the joke.
That is the crappy included GTX 1080 in the aurus box btw, not even a high quality one. As you can see on the clockspeeds. The sager is the P870TM with 8700K + GTX 1080 which has higher clockspeeds.

Where is the joke?
Oh the joke is that you thought you knew what you were talking about. Yeah that's slightly funny.

 

AW Amp is not a tb3 based. You are so funny!

 

Gotta have to ask, do you think you are funny?

or do you think the aorus box is something else than tb3?