XOTIC PC Copper Cooling upgrade option - Marketing or functional?

Hello -

I'm considering ordering a Sager NP8652 from XOTIC PC as soon as they become available, but my question isn't notebook specific really.

XOTIC PC offers a $79 copper cooling upgrade option.

$79 isn't too much for me, if this is an actual functional investment that really lowers temps in a appreciable way. I tried to search the forums for any threads that may pertain to this cooling upgrade but I didn't locate any. Perhaps I just missed it.

Have you seen any threads about this service that XOTIC PC offeres, perhaps you've ordered it yourself? I'm looking for opinions or facts. Is this service functional or just another way to milk $79 out of me?


Thanks!

 

Is there a better forum to post this question in?

 

You're in the correct forum just give people time to find your thread and provide their feedback. There was mention of this before however I'd need to look up one of my old threads to find it. I'm currently at work so next break I'll check.

Ok did a quick check and I had asked the exact same question in an older thread ( 2012 )

Here are some of the responses I received.

However times have changed and people above didn't speculate as to why, so I'd still wait for others to provide their feedback on this we as well.

Here's a more helpful one that goes into detail. ( Same thread )

Hope this helps some.

 

Thanks a ton, LunaP. You really went above and beyond looking up that older thread for me.

I'll continue to hope that others will respond to this thread with more recent info or opinions too.

 

It's functional if you can pass some air over the heatsinks. Otherwise, it just delays the system reaching the same peak temps by 5-10 minutes.

 

i would just get a laptop fan cooler or something for like 1/3 price

 

If you cut holes in the bottom cover and use a cooler it can massively drop temperatures but that does impact the portability of the machine.

 

Laptop cooler does next to nothing. The primary benefit you get is it will prop up the laptop a few degrees which will improve airflow into the chassis. Unless you can cool the air coming up through the laptop cooler fans, it won't make a lot of difference.

Yep. I've done that on several occasions but in the end a good thermal paste and application by the user and propping up the back end of the laptop have resulted in best temps compromise. Anything more requires modding hardware which is a big step for most users and aren't willing to commit to. But if you want to OC like crazy then extreme modding measures are likely needed too.

 

So the bulk of the benefit you get from a laptop cooler is just it propping the laptop up, which improves airflow? The fan(s) in the cooler sound a lot like this cooper cooling upgrade: unnecessary.

Thanks for your answers everyone.

 

I might be getting a Notepal U3 cooler fairly soon as a late birthday present. If and when I get it, I will test it versus the propping up of the machine I am currently using (for each back rubber foot, folding four 2-ply toilet paper blocks into a square that's barely bigger than the rubber feet of my laptop itself and using that for propping, as well as the same method for the front feet, except using three 2-ply blocks instead of four, and it folds into a rectangle). I have been able to get 10-15 degrees temperature drops using max fans with this method; using IC Diamond on my GPUs and Arctic Céramiqué 2 on the CPU, versus not propping up at all or only using two 2-ply blocks of paper per rubber foot (not enough raising).

If the Notepal U3 cooler drops my temperatures more, then the Jury's out for that. Propping up does not get much better than how I have it as far as I could see. If it worsens temperatures in any way or only provides equal bonuses, then I will simply have to recommend against a cooler for users with great internal cooling already.

Please note: if your internal heatsinks or thermal paste applications are bad, even holding your laptop sideways into a fan won't do a bloody thing to bring temps down a lot (trust me; I've tried before when my thermal paste evaporated on my CPU. It still got way way too hot). If you try propping and good TIM applications etc and your temperatures still remain fairly high, then your heatsinks might be the problem, and should look at it via RMA. If you are out of warranty, buying new heatsinks (and lapping them too) will help the most.

 

Thanks for chiming in, D2. I look forward to the results of your testing with a laptop cooler.

 

I never turn the fans on my notebook cooler on, not even when overclocking.

 

When buying a relatively expensive laptop (assuming you are not so budget constrained) any extra accessory or add on provides some benefit (with diminishing returns). I figure it's like buying a Porsche and then upgrading the stock mag wheelset for some racing forged wheelset. The new wheelset will cost another 20K but hey you already spend 100k on the car.

Now if you are on a tight budget, I doubt the copper cooler will be able to perform above your expectations for its cost. But that's just my thoughts... Hope someone can throw down some numbers or real world tests to provide objective conclusions.

 

An earlier post quoted from HeiHachi_1337 said

I feel the need to chime in and share some points of thermal dynamics. First off, a conductor is something that is able to transfer energy. An electrical conductor transfers electricity and a thermal conductor transfers heat. The better the conductivity, the better the transfer of energy. In this example, you want the best conductivity to move the heat energy out of the confined environment.

Speaking strictly in theory, lets say you have generic (lets say an alloy) heatsinks connected to copper heat pipes. The heat pipes (copper is one of the best conductors) will do a fantastic job of moving the heat from the point where it is hot, to where it is cooler. To be more accurate, the copper will bring the cold from the ambient air, moving or not (moving is better), to the heat sink. So the question is, how efficient is the heat sink in apply the cold from outside the laptop, to the head generating object (cpu/gpu) inside of the laptop.

This is also where the IC cooling/thermal compound comes into play. The paste used my most manufacturers is usually cheap, applied by machine, and does the job. Think of this as regular tires that come on a car purchased from a dealer. Are they high performance, all weather, or extended wear? Usually not. You have to buy better tires separately. The same goes for the cooling compound. There are gaps, divots, and irregularities in microchip surfaces. The best cooling compounds fill in those gaps and provide a more complete heat transfer from the heat source to the heat sink. The heat sink then needs to transfer that energy to the ambient air (moving air is better) or pipes (also known as a radiator).

If the heat sink is not as thermally conductive as the copper pipes, then your heat sink will effectively 'hold in' heat it could be transferring. If you put all copper in, your heat sink will be as efficient as your pipes. If you could move air over both the sink and the pipes, you would see even better performance.

So in my experience.
1. Lifting a notebook from a desktop surface with a cooling pad will allow more cool air to reach the underside intakes and exhaust by increasing the amount of air available below the notebook. Lets call this 'stage 1'.

2. Having a notebook cooler with a fan to move air would be 'stage 2'. Moving air cools better than standing air. That is why you are colder when it is breezy or windy. Keep in mind to not have your fan blow INTO an exhaust point on the laptop. Stage 2 is more expensive than stage 1 as it includes a fan.

3. Improved internal cooling, such as the copper heatsink upgrade. As Stage 3, this is the most expensive option and is an incremental improvement over stage 2. If you add copper heatsink elements, but have not improved your cooling, you will be spending a lot of money, to get almost the same gains as stage 1 due to not having improved airflow at all. If you really want performance cooling this upgrade should be chosen and you should at a minimum have completed stage 1. Stage 2 is only a couple of dollars more than Stage 1.

As a disclaimer, I do not have a Sager nor an upgraded cooling option. I am an electronics technician by trade and also in the market for my next gaming laptop.

EDIT:
Found an interesting article on Toms Hardware showing the gap between the top of a CPU (which is a manufacturer installed heat-spreader) and a copper cooling surface:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/thermal-paste-heat-sink-heat-spreader,3600-2.html

 

Woohoo! you guys just saved me 35 bucks! Thanks!

 

I had 4 Sagers with the NP8130 based chassis so far, and the only version that was getting reasonably hot had a GTX485m video card. I repasted every one with Arctic Silver 5, which by modern standards is a pretty poor paste.

Besides repasting, I used to prop the back of the laptop with a pack of smokes, and there was a bit of a difference in temperature.

On my current NP8265 I "upgraded" my setup. I bought some stick-on rubber feet that elevate the entire laptop about 1cm higher than the stock feet. I attached them right next to the OEM feet, and they achieve the same purpose. However they save me carying any extras, which is important since quitting smoking I ran out of tiny cardboard boxes.

If I am to throw my two cents into this discussion, Sagers have excellent cooling. If they are overheating to the point you need a laptop cooler or upgrades of any kind, there is something very wrong with your particular unit. As I said, the GTX485m is one of the hottest laptop video cards and it never caused me any issues, even though I played games for hours at a stretch in 30 oC ambient temperature...