XoticPc vs. PcTorque vs. Sager

So this is yet another one of those threads, and I've done my research but just want a second opinion on the matter.

I'm planning to purchase a Sager 8150 with 485 upgrade, and other extras. What I'm worried is about the quality and which company to go with. I've heard Sagers trust able but for some reason has a 6.x score, with Torque and Xotic at 9.9x. So I just want a second opinion on which company you had a better experience with, in terms of how were the agents, response times, if needed how their repair services were, and just etc. I'm getting alot of mixed opinions and want to hear a more firm response.

And of course any other companies you've had a swell time with, other then eurocom as its been noted their just horrible.. (again I don't understand why their score is 9.x so I have no idea if this rating systems flawed.)

 

These versus threads never accomplish much, as the majority of people have only ever dealt with one company, so you get nothing but biased opinions.

All resellers are generally equal to each other, but don't buy direct from Sager. Their custo support is bad.

 

This^

10char

 

I concur. Avoid buying direct from Sager, buy from any reseller you choose. The reseller deals directly with Sager for you so you don't have to.

 

This is actually very funny to me. I was expecting to hear quite a bit of disagreement in this thread, but there is nothing like that. I agree with everyone else. Avoid Sager, but their resellers are all fantastic. I am in the process of buying an 8150 from XoticPC right now. I have sent no less than 20 emails to my sales advisor asking for everything in the book, including upgrades, payment date assistance, technical questions, etc. I have not waited longer than 3-4 hours for a response to my email, even on Sunday. That has made me a loyal customer of theirs for a long time to come.
Having said that, I have heard the exact same story about the other four or five Sager resellers that I see on here. Think about all the wonderful stories you have heard about Sager resellers on these forums...now think about the last time that you called or emailed Dell or HP for help. XoticPC and the others on here will all treat you right. I would suggest this: Send all of them the exact same email with all the questions you have, and go with the one that sends you the most satisfying reply.

 

Don't be afraid to solicit multiple quotes especially if you want certain hardware removed or any other special request. Personally I've had good communication with XoticPC where I'm buying my unit from, LPC-Digital, and Mythlogic. All of them have been prompt, courteous, and professional.

 

So who do we deal with when we need to use our warranties? Can we go through say, XoticPC or will we have to deal with Sager directly at that point?

 

You get an RMA # from your reseller, then you mail it to the City of Industry.

 

Seems like Xotic, the first choice i was going for has a really good reputation. The only thing i was dazed about was how Xotic was selling sager labled notebooks so i was a wondering what that was about, shouldnt they put their own logo? Anyhow now.. whether to get the S-1 or the regular...

Btw thank you everyone. Nice to know xotic has a good customer service line with great agents.. thats the deal breaker for me and a must.

 

No. There are Sager resellers like XoticPC, LPC-Digital, Pro-Star, Powernotebooks, etc. They basically manage the Sager notebook orders and warranty stuff. Sager actually assembles and ships the Clevo based PC's. Clevo makes the base chassis with motherboard and screen.

There are Clevo resellers that assemble the components themselves and many sell them under their own brand name like Malibal, Mythlogic, etc.

 

This has been very educational for me as well...So the Clevo resellers actually get the machine and put it together in their shop prior to shipment to the end user? Would warranty then be directly through the Clevo reseller instead of Sager (City of Industry?).

 

Yes, you are correct.

 

I have ordered directly from Sager twice. Both times they shipped 2-3 days after order. The one RMA I did with them was painless.

 

Any comparisons on clevo distributors? Rjtech, sager, avadirect, ect. I dont even know what the complete list is

This just mynpersonal inference, but isnt it less costly to get it closer to the source? Instead of clevo-sager-xoticpc for ex. Im just assuming theres more inbetween cost passed on to the user that way.. But maybe its worth it for the extended service the sager distributors (2nd tier) provide that justifies the cost vs the clevo distributots, which would seem like 1st tier since they are closer to the source. Anyway, thats my inference from my limited understanding of how the distribution chain is structured. Please correct me if im wrong

 

When I customized my 8130 on sager it was more expensive than xoticpc. Mostly because xoticpc (and all resellers that I'm familiar with) offer some sort of cash discount. Another reason it might turn out cheaper with resellers is because you don't have to get Windows 7 installed on it. That usually lowers it by $100+.

 

I believe the resellers get paid by the units sold not necessarily what's in it. There may be a slight premium for higher cost units and / or warranties, but they never seem to push for a particular upgrade or warranty, so my thought it's strictly paid per unit.

 

Interesting. Warranty, labor cost, qa process, or perhaps different routes of getting parts might account for the price difference.. I guess its also extra cost for a mass producer to add retail operations as opposed to resellers being able to dorict all resources to retail.

 

From shopping around I see pretty much identical pricing on all units.

 

I did a bit or price checking before ordering mine through XoticPC. I didn't really see any differences in price either. Of course, that doesn't mean they aren't out there, it just means I didn't see any.

It's weird really. The prices I've seen have been exactly identical wherever I've looked.

 

Which is my point that they order directly from Sager, all same pricing, and in return Sager probably pays them a per unit sold fee.

 

I guess it depends what clevo's dist business plan is, combined with sager's. Still seems simpler to just bypass sager.. Maybe sager's just easier to deal with since clevo's in taiwan? Pretty interesting

 

ProStar notebooks sell under their own brand name.

I'm still not clear as to whether their machines come straight from Sager. I'm kinda sure they are, but their site has zero mention of Sager or being one of their resellers.

There are also Prostar resellers. That also suggest that they get them direct.

 

Oh yeah, forgot pro-star is Clevo and not Sager, my bad.

 

I think Clevo probably doesn't want to deal with the hundreds/thousands of end users and the support needed to support that. Just easier to deal with wholesalers who buy a ton and can support the end user directly.

 

If it has the Sager brand on it, Sager builds it, not the reseller.

The advantages of buying from some of the better Sager resellers are:
1. 24/7 Toll Free Domestic Support instead of West Coast business hours M-F
2. An additional 2 year labor warranty
2. Usually you get better pre-sales support getting your questions answered.
3. If you buy from Sager you are but one grain of sand on their beach of customers, but if you buy from one of the larger Sager resellers you have them as your advocate, and they are "The Rock" on Sager's beach.

 

Interesting, thats a clearer picture of the sager reseller landscape.. What does the sager reseller vs clevo reseller landscape look like? (if you care to elaborate). Im just curious from a business perspective rather than trying to find the best deal as a consumer.

 

Define landscape, we for example are a Clevo builder / reseller. What other info would be helpful

 

A "Clevo" reseller in the US that brands the shell as their own has to buy the shell from a North American importer (OEM) of which there are three. Sager is by far the largest, then Pro-Star and Eurocom.

However, as stated above, the private brander is your sole support for warranty, which is what makes it a bit risky as opposed to buying the Sager, Pro-Star or Eurocom brand. If that private brander goes out of business, you cannot look to the company from which they purchased the shell for warranty support for anything other than the shell itself, and never for more than one year, and even then the importer (OEM) has no obligation to do warranty repair. If they decide to do it, it is only through their grace.

 

It's cute how scared some people are of competition.

 

Instead of being sarcastic, why not refute with facts?

For example, Xtremenotebooks.com, PCMicroWorks, Flawless Computers, Hybridgear are a few that come to mind that have gone out of business over the last 5 years or so, and all left customers hanging out to dry with their too good to be true warranties. I am sure some veterans here can add to that list.

Facts are facts, and unless you are willing to take a risk on a relatively small, relatively new company, it is wiser to stick with the Sagers of the world who have been in business for over 25 years and have plenty of backing to stand behind their warranties.

 

My question was more about the difference between resellers who clearly sell sager machines (xoticpc,etc) vs resellees who list clevo models as clevo products and make no mension of sager (rjtech, avadirect). Seems both rjtech and avadirect dont rebrand the clevos, just the default black shell, which seems to indicate it didnt come through sager.

So my assumption is that there are some resellers who import directly from clevo, including sager, prostar, eurocom (rjtech, avadirect seem to fall under this category), and then there are resellers who get their inventory from the direct importers. I was just curious what the difference between the two groups was, apart from their position in the distribution chain.

But anyway, i understand resellers may not be in the position to discuss full details of the distribution network so i'll stop stirring things.

 

Sager, Pro-Star and Eurocom are the only companies in North America that currently import directly from Clevo. RJTech and AVADirect both buy their shells from one of them.

These are not secrets, so you are not stirring anything that should not be stirred

 

Ah, so the difference between those that sell sager breanded ones and those that only mention clevo is that perhaps the ones that only mention clevo get their stock from prostar or eurocom. Or perhaps sager doesnt require their products be branded as sager visually on the shell, or mentioned in name, but people do so anyway because they have some recognition.

If so, then different combinations are:
1. Clevo body, sager components, sager builds it, sager warranty, this is ordering from sager
2. Clevo body, sager components, sager builds, sager warrants, but reseller acts as storefront, order placed to sager
3. Clevo body, components gathered through resellers network, reseller builds, reseller warrants
4. Clevo body, sager components, reseller builds, reseller warrants? Or sager warrants

Maybe theres more, but i guess now it makes more sense where resellers can be competitive. Though its strange that prices are mostly consistent between resellers. I guess price differentiation is hard even with changing all these variables, but each combination seems to have its pros and cons.

I think people are confused about how each reseller is different frrom each other from a business strategy point of view, because all things equal, the deciding factor could be the strategy that best suites the way a purchaser is planning to use the machine. (more custom parts, maybe cheap= #3, wont mind not having full sager warranty, rather use money saved for higher spec = #4). But the difference in strategy is very unclear to the end user.

Anyway, just trying to understand the context. Thnx for taking time to explain.

 

Where ever the private brander gets their shells doesn't control what brand they put on them. The importer just sells the shell, which does not have the Sager etc. brand on it. Most of the private branders do get their shells from Sager.

If you were to cross of your #4, which is not accurate (there are no "Sager" components. They are Intel for the processor, various hard drive Global brands, various memory brands...) the rest is fairly accurate. The only exceptions being the additional support (like Lifetime 24/7 DOMESTIC toll free support, and the additional 2 year labor warranty) provided by some of the better Sager resellers, and you usually don't save any money by going with the private branders thereby giving up the Sager backed warranty.

 

I think that the prices are mostly consistent because of Sager themselves. This is why Powernotebooks, Xoticpc, etc have the exact same prices regarding upgrades (and how other outlets like mythlogic can sell a 2720QM for like $30). They sell Sager laptops for Sager. The only differentiators are the discounts provided, location (for state sales tax purposes), and service (and from my understanding is similar, too). As stated, Sager is the one who builds the laptop for the resellers so most of the money goes to Sager themselves and a small seller commission fee to the reseller.

If there was a wide difference in prices, the business would fail extremely quickly since their profits would be non-existent (again, applies to Sager resellers only).

I could be wrong, so feel free to comment. This is interesting to know from a consumer standpoint.

 

I thought mythlogic was a clevo reseller,

and that's why he has different options from the Sager resellers.

I think as resellers, Sager would have price guidelines to ensure that they keep the minimum level. As there are so many resellers on this forum, if one was to give lower prices, the others would have to pricematch..

There is no way some resellers get machines cheaper than the other resellers... That would pretty much beat the purpose unless they were trying to implement price discrimination..

So my bottom line is ask around, and ask a lot for quotes from different resellers: although they may not "POST" prices up on their websites, they are willing to give an "EDGE" to their site as to make sales above other retailers..

 

I believe that mythlogic is a clevo reseller which is why their pricing is a little bit different

 

Yes, it's true that some non-Sager/PS/EC branded Clevo resellers have went out of business. It's also true that some Sager/PS/EC Resellers have went out of business, so what can we deduce from that?

How does a few companies going out of business reflect negatively upon our company? Or Falcon-NW or iBuypower or CyberpowerPC or Alienware / VoodooPC before they sold out or any other non-Sager/PS/EC branded Clevo reseller?

Walk us through it.

 

I have never specifically mentioned Malibal, but since you bring it up let me respond.

At least when a Sager/PS/EC reseller goes out of business, the customer still has Sager/PS/EC to look to for their warranty because that is the warranty they bought. This is not true with a private brander. This is a BIG difference.

Second, be honest with your customers and the readers here Matthew. Comparing Malibal to Falcon-NW or iBuypower or CyberpowerPC or Alienware / VoodooPC is a bit of a stretch, bordering on misrepresentation. Malibal hasn't been in business nearly as long, and has no where near the capitalization, staff, annual sales or staying power of any of those companies.

My point is not to "...negatively reflect..." on your company, it is just to point out that any buyer who relies on any privately branded laptop warranty only has that company to rely on, and they should be sure to do their research to find out how long they have been in business, the size of their staff, their annual sales and other pertinent factors to be able to make their own judgment about how risky it might be to rely on that company's warranty.

Unfortunately, internet only companies can put out a good looking website that makes great claims, but operates on a shoestring out of a spare bedroom, or even a small shop somewhere, and it is very difficult for a purchaser to investigate who they really are. The best thing to do is be straight out honest with their customers instead of comparing themselves to large, well capitalized, long standing companies with $10+ Million in annual sales when in fact their company does not resemble those companies in any way other than they sell a few of the same or similar products.

 

You are the one who lumped all non-Sager/PS/EC Clevo resellers into one group and then tried to stigmatize them all by stating that people are taking a risk by purchasing from them because Clevo reselling giants like Hybridgear/PcMicroworks & Flawless Computers (did this company ever sell more than 4 computers total?) went out of business.

So you see, you're the one who is misrepresenting the facts by making false generalizations and comparisons.

Sager is only one company, so stating that someone has more warranty protection with Sager than all other Clevo resellers is just simply dishonest and you know that, but do you care?

The same applies to Sager, but thanks for pointing out that non-point.

 

Donald had made allot of good points. When you purchase Sager branded you are not only backed by your Reseller but also Sager on your custom built machine. Ultimately the consumer walks away more secure with their purchase and more warranty protection since they are backed two fold by Sager and the Reseller. Sager has been in business over 20 Years.

In addition since Sager services nearly all U.S Clevo Machines, Sager Branded machines are prioritized over Clevo Branded machines in the repair quene when the unfortunate time comes and you need a repair, which means less downtime without your system (with the exception of Pro Star & Eurocom).

 

LOL, you guys bickering really makes people want to buy from you... I'm glad I bought my laptop from the guy that seems to be staying out of it.

Even before I read this thread I kind of got the feeling with these Sager retailers after researching them as the famous line from Office Space, "I gotta ask ya, what would you say you really do around here".

"Well I take the specifications from the customer to the engineers".

"Wouldn't it just be easier for the engineers to take the specifications directly?"

LOL, I get what you're saying about warranties though, good thing I will probably never use one because I usually fix all my own stuff unless it arrives DOA.

 

As Mathis512 said, the bickering isn't making fans for any retailer.

Smaller companies are more likely to fail than larger companies. This is a statistical statement and not a comment on the quality of the product or service, the business plan or the moral character of anyone at the company. While large companies can fail spectacularly (hello, Arthur Andersen), it's just a fact of life that smaller ones fail more often. There are stochastic events (illness, fluctuations in income, changing interest of key players, etc.) that are more likely to adversely impact a small company than a large one.

All of the resellers on the board (Clevo resellers, Sager resellers, whatever) are more likely to fail than Sager just as Sager is more likely to fail than Intel. I hope that no resellers do fail, but since one buys a warranty to mitigate risk, it makes sense to be aware of the risks.

 

That is a good point though. Buying Sager, if the reseller goes out of business, you can still deal with Sager directly. Buy a Clevo rebrand, that company goes out of business you're stuck with no warranty. Valid points.

lol. Fix all my own stuff. I do too. The point is that they pay for fixing all that "stuff", hardware and labor. I'd rather do the work myself too. But if my GTX 485m dies, I'd rather they float the bill for that $500+ replacement board than me. Not to mention $79 for an extra year is a pretty darn good deal.

 

Wow, this is really a versus thread now...

Wanna know something? As #1 BB apple reseller in America, dealing with over 1m in revenue a year I gotta tell you, the most important part for our large purchase customers (and large margin for that matter) is our financing options. It sound weird, and perhaps its simply because my product sells itself. But i noticed in my sales floor exp. as well as product and loss reports that there is an extreme correlation with financing specials for a given week and high margin, high revenue sales. Ether way, yes warranty comes into play, yes customer service does, but in the end the buying power of the customer is what determines the purchase. And unfortunately (to my knowledge) none of the resellers or direct sager dealers offer this, thus diverting their customer base to large physical stores as well as large online retailers. On the contrary I know its a bit difficult to get backed by a bank or a financing company such as billmelater, but the effort is worth it. And lets not forget the fees that come with Credit Card purchases (for us and the customers alike). Anywho I dont have 'online retail' experience in my short 20 year life so obviously Im not one to say things. but this is really something I, myself would love to see from any of the resellers. I already know you all have warranties, I already know you guys are all great with customers, but give me some payment options darn it so I don't have to break my checking account and simply sign a pre-calculated check every month. We all know today's shoppers are irresponsible (like myself) SO LET US BE!

 

So promote going into debt. Good idea.

 

Oh stop it, you know what I meant.

 

Can the mods close this thread?

This thread really is getting out of hand,

just getting filled with flaming and trolling posts.

 

Didn't notice any trolling honestly....
The tread name is "XoticPc vs. PcTorque vs. Sager", and this is exactly how its playing out (with an addition to a few more retailers). But this is quite interesting actually, here we learn more and more about the resellers and retailers alike. I say keep it open.

 

Are you being sarcastic about "learn more and more about the resellers and retailers alike"?