eGPU setups with new Clevo laptops (with Thunderbolt 3)

Hello everyone,

I'm considering a P77XDM with a 6700k and still not decided on a GPU model.

980m is becoming quite weak, and will not run newest titles on ultra in about a year, so, if I want maximum performance for a bit longer, a 980 desktop or 980m sli is the way to go.
But I also consider an eGPU setup in the future with a Pascal desktop card, this way I'd be happy with a 980m or even a 970m.

What are limitations to do this? Is it PCI-E speed or something else? I don't really understand how it works (well, kind of, from eGPU discussion, but most use old-ish laptops with mPCI-E adapters to an external dock. Something should have changed with TB3).

Considering that the theoretical best card is the one that isn't bottlenecked by 6700k and pushes it to its limits, would the current setup be sufficient for such card and how is it meant to be implemented?

 

980M becoming quite weak?

take a good long look at the game performance: http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-980M.126692.0.html

id only consider the 980M "weak" when it comes to maxing out games at 4K resolution, and in that respect, even the 980 and 980M sli would be "weak"

as for eGPU setups, u can only do so by lots of hardware and software modding, theres no plug and play solution yet for the TB3 port. thats why imho its still just a gimmick to push sales, same with DDR4 and skylake cpus. u dont get any real life performance boost out of that hardware sure, that might change next year when and IF eGPU enclosures finally hit the market, but for now thats just crystal ball talk...

 

True, the only "plug-n-play" eGPU solution I know of are the Alienware Graphics Amplifier and the dock of the MSI GS30/GS40 (both proprietary technology).

You don't currently buy a TB3-enabled laptop for eGPU, as I think we're still at least a year away from a decent, easy-to-use eGPU. Even then, I don't know how a single eGPU would have plug-n-play functionality with all the different laptops out there.

Well, DDR4 does double the RAM limit, as well as provide a marginal boost in performance. Same with Skylake CPUs, though the biggest gain from Skylake CPUs I've seen is lower idle power consumption.

 

I understand what you mean. Most of the games that are currently out run nicely on 980m.
But look, the newest and the most demanding games (Witcher 3, GTA 5) already put it into 30s fps region on 1080p, and there it becomes uncomfortable. Delay between two frames should be no longer than ~1/24 seconds, and in this case (<40) we start to see some tearing already. Even less demanding games like Batman AK or Fallout 4 are all running sub-60. A simple extrapolation tells that in a year or so I'll have to tone down settings. But when I complete all games I currently have in my steam library, Pascal GPUs will be out by that time, which got me interested.

I guess you are right, eGPU perspectives are quite vague, but so are Pascal MXM 3.0b cards, not confirmed yet...

 

What? Where did you get those numbers? I ran GTA5 at max settings with just a tad AA at 50fps, Witcher 3 at well over 40 almost 50, and AK went over 60 on many places.

 

On the page linked just above
Do you run GTA 5 on all Ultra excluding maybe grass (it's an overwhelming performance hit even for a GTX Titan), both in the city and outside?
Do you get ~50 fps in Witcher 3 with all ultra settings including foliage, HBAO+ and Hairworks with 4xMSAA? Does it stay the same in combat?
As for AK "goes above 60 sometimes/often" doesn't invalidate my statement. It does dip sub-60.
I didn't say "the card is already weak", I said "it's becoming weak". It is 1 year old already, and it is a mobile GPU, being roughly between 960 and 970 desktop in terms of performance, so in 1-2 years it will be mid-range at best.

 

You are right, my bad, forgot about the grass on Gta, and on Witcher hairworks only on Geralt. But you did say "already put it into 30s fps region " and i do not find it to be true. Besides, ultra grass vs high doesn't make that much of a difference, and you can always oc the 980m comfortably on a P7xxxM. Oh, and i do not take aa (anything that isn't fxaa or smaa) settings into account when i say ultra/max settings, to me msaa is a bonus.

 

- for example, here it is easily 35 fps just when looking around. Imagine a monster fight in the same place - it'll probably even go sub-30.
I agree with what you said - some settings can be toned down without much of a visual effect. I can live without ultra grass and hairworks, whatever, but we are already compromising on more settings, and there are some that give you some really nice eye-candy. It is just the fact that I want the best or close to the best, as long as it fits my budget. If I have to play on medium-high in just 1 year after purchasing a 2k+ machine, I will be very disappointed.

 

theres always overclocking, ya know 20% extra boost and u get urself a whole gpu gen jump

one thing is true though: if i were on the lookout for a new machine id definitely grab one with a 980 in it, especially since im not a dual gpu kinda guy. more specifically, id probably go with the p775dm

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

TW3 looks plenty good at medium/high settings. Ultra is literally a waste of GPU resources; there's diminishing marginal returns.

Or maybe it's just my small 13-inch 1080p screen. Another advantage in having a small, pixel-dense screen: nothing more than FXAA/2x MSAA is ever needed.

 

You mean, you get 20% performance boost? That's damn impressive
What are your clocks? Something like +240/+400?

 

good guess, my stable oc is at +250/+450 with +62.5mV extra juice

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

The wonders of the unlocked video BIOS (which is required to do the above).

 

We now have multiple egpu solutions for tb3 so the question now is are clevos compatible with any of them? I want to get one of these egpu boxes soon but before that I want to confirm it will actually work easily as in the demonstrations or would I have to do things such as a bios upgrade or flash or anything to get these running on my clevo 750dm g.

 

i doubt it will be plug n play. first, ull probably have to update your TB3 firmware before u can even use it at all (for any tb3 device) and then theres also the thing about the stock firmware not being egpu capable. theres a modified firmware floating around to enable egpu functionality, but somehow the people handling that prefer to keep it to themselves and make a big deal of secrecy/exclusiveness about it and so far, i havent heard a valid reason for that being so

Sent from my Huawei Mate 8 NXT-AL10

 

I cant understand that either other than for one underlying reason which usually ends up being the case for such secrecy and thats profit. Its obvious most manufactures don't like the idea of upgradeable laptops and that even carries on to vendors or anyone who makes a living selling these things. It looks our only real hope of experiencing true upgrades and gains is through prema (thank goodness) but nvidia and clevo really let me down in a big way so far. Im surprised no lawsuits have been made even to clevo. Why sell a laptop with tb3 when you wont even release proper firmware to get the full uses of it? Very shady practices and that hurts coming from companies like this that at one time set the standard for true user personal upgrade capable machines.

Seems like these are the only options for upgrading the first dm clevos with egpu based on many of the forum posts out there and I may be missing some but here goes:
- Clevo/Sager releases official firmware updates for prior dm/dmg models which rightfully should have happened in the first place.
- Prema comes through with software patch/mod to allow tb3 for p7xxdm/batman2 to allow egpu use.
- Connecting directly to the pcie via the wlan or m.2 slot by removing the bottom cover (will be messy)

 

The TB firmware updates are released by Intel as it's down to them to tweak the firmwares on them. It's then down to the motherboard manufacturer to release the firmware with a utility that will flash it to their specific motherboard.
When they were first released TB 3 was brand new so Clevo had to wait for Intel to update the firmwares. The first laptops/desktop boards came out around Oct 2015, but they all needed an update around March 2016. Even now when I get in a Gigabyte X99 motherboard I have to update the TB 3 firmware.
There are already TB 3 firmwares available for your model to download from this forum and the newer DM3 models are shipping with the latest TB 3 firmwares now

 

I have information how this an be accomplished all you need is a dump from a compatible laptop's TB firmware. Which you would of course need a laptop and get the firmware through a very very complicated means...

Legal issues...

I do not think this is correct but I could be wrong. I think they still do not pay for the firmware compatibility...

 

Firstly, I'd be interested to see where Jaybee83 heard about the 'modified' firmware as I've not seen anything about that at all.

Flat Earth was also wrong, Clevo sold them with the firmwares they were given by Intel at the time. As the Chassis were probably already built well in advance and boxed up ready for shipping they are unlikely to go back and unbox every one to update the firmwares. They leave that to the distributor/reseller just like any other motherboard manufacturer. I see the same thing with desktop boards. Currently I'm still getting in X99 boards that need BIOS updates to make them work with the newer Broadwell-E CPU even though the Broadwell-E CPU's have been out for months. Manufacturers make them well in advance and aren't going to go back and unbox them all to update them.

They don't have to 'Pay' for the compatibility. The firmwares are released by Intel and then it's down to each board manufacturer to implement it it into software that can be used to flash the chips on their particular boards. All TB 3 Clevo laptops already have firmwares available that will update them, the original DM models from last year had 2 different firmwares depending on when they were originally manufactured, so ones from around Oct 2015 or earlier required a different firmware to those released after that date, all of which were supplied by Intel who updated the chips in early March 2016 to make them more compatible. This update was not only on Clevo laptops but on desktop motherboards, that's why when you install the V15 drivers or later on any machine that has TB 3 and still has an old firmware it will tell you you need to update the firmware on the chip as well
I've personally updated the earlier Pre Oct 2015 P771DM-G as well as the later P771DM-G models to the latest TB 3 firmwares as well as the early P775DM3-G's. I just had to request the firmwares from my distributor

And as I said, the latest DM3 models we had in are now shipping with the latest firmwares.

 

I am not sure what you keep referring as to the latest firmware.. but oh well here is your proof.

 

The latest firmware is the latest one available from Intel. On the P775DM3 it's V21 and supports eGPU