i'm in indecision land

Ok, have to get a Sager. Always wanted one. So that's simple.

I also need to be able play Starcraft 2 on it. Again, simple.

Right now, i'm looking at the 8130 with the gtx 460m from Xotic. Seems clean, solid price, nice screen, ok GPU.

two problems: I kind of want Widi (which means i need to have a sucky optimus gpu) and i've heard that a new gtx 570m is coming out soon (or even the amd 6970).

should I just pull the trigger?

thanks!

 

well if you dont have a set date by which you have to have it, you might as well wait a little bit longer.. although the 8130 will not be able to support the 6970 since it doesn't have a large enough psu

you looked at the 8150? same thing except it has a rubberized coating, and can handle the stronger gpu's

 

Who told you the GTX 570M is coming out, anytime soon? All that I know about it, is that it exists.

 

Bump for interest! I've been waiting on the 6970 and hoping it would come out for 8150 but its already april and I heard it was coming out by the end of March... which it did for the 17inch :/ so hope you figure things out

 

If you can wait it out for the new series of GPUs then i recommend it, if not the 460m is a solid card and will play every game out today.

 

Will the new series of M Gpus for laptops from NVidia beat the 485M's performance and have optimus going ??

And wont the ETA be the end of this year at best?? Wait that long??

EDIT: Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't the 485M announced and released this year??

So,

is this even remotely possible?

 

IF

1.(on the Nvidia side) a 570M or 580M or 590M or whatever is in the works, and it came with optimus
&
2.(on the clevo side) a new barebones supporting a 120hz (matte or glossy) monitor (for 3D), and clevo kicks the rubber finish thats on the Np8150.

IF.. I knew all this could be mine with a three or even 5 month wait, I would definitely wait (even if i don't have a laptop at all now)

Either i am really bad at searching or there really is no news, because i can find next to nothing on these two topics. ANYONE gracious enough to lend a helping pointer is thanked in advance.

 

The high-end Clevos are not wired for Optimus, at all.

And we should expect the new GPUs in.... ?

I know there's an NDA, which is why I hate being teased with confidential information.

 

After reading the stuff posted by Atmosk on the OptimusTech? Thread http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/567232-optimus-tech-2.html#post7330140 I don't want the Optimus tech. There seems to be a good reason why Clevo didn't support Optimus on their high-end laptops.

Now, the task is to snoop around and find out when the next M GPUs from Nvidia will come out. If its Q4 this year or Q1 next year, might as well get the 485M on the NP8150 now

 

nvidia just released the 485.. why would they release something better than it within the same year? they're not not done milking it's over-pricedness

plus there's some murmuring in the alienware 17x forums that the 485 is coming to dell soon for a more powerful 3D setup.

 

I definitely like the 8150 but if I was only going to rock the 460m, i didn't think it was worth it to grab the 8150 over the 8130.

That said, if the 6970 was available in the 8150....then that would be a different story. We all know the 6970 is available in the Dell M17x R3, so it seems that one of the Sager models will throw it in there soon. Right?

I remember reading somewhere, could be bunk, but that the 570gtx was coming out summer time as a replacement to the 460. Maybe on Notebookcheck.

It's tough...I could maybe wait a month...but can't wait more than two.

 

I'm on the same train of thought, when it comes to Optimus. I don't want that mess anywhere near my upcoming GTX 485M. With s manual on/off switch, I would be onboard.

In regards to the 500M, the rumor out of China, is that they're coming in the early Q3, Summer timeframe.

The whole purpose, of GTX 500M, is to lower price and power consumption, by moving to more efficient core revisions.

GTX 485M = GF104 ; GTX 580M = GF114

470M = GF104 ; GTX 570M = GF114, plus a boost from 288 cores to 336

GTX 460M = GF106 ; GTX 560M = GF116

As you can see, only the GTX 570M is actually a significant spec upgrade. Each of these is supposedly cheaper than the GPU it replaces. If I could wait, I would.

And again, this is just me reporting what I've heard and read, thus it's safer to take it as an unsubstantiated rumor.

 

Add the extra time that Clevo would take to make a new barebones to accommodate the new 500M with optimus, I'd say we are looking at Q4 or Q1-2012. Or would this be unnecessary and the current NP5160 or Np5170 motherboard w/optimus can take it??

No, I'd get the 485M or the 6970M (which can be given a month before it hits the Np8150. I'm expecting before April ends)

And if we got the NP8150 now (or the 8130), we could upgrade to the new less-wattage card, without the optimus anyway.
And we would need to upgrade only if the 485M makes a slideshow out of BF3 (This would be my personal reason for validating an upgrade down the road) Sounds like the right thing to do.

The more time i spend on NBR, the more I am confident on pulling the trigger on the NP8150 with the 485M. or am i deluding myself

Reason to wait:
GPU reasons annulled.
So any further reason to wait would be for a new Clevo barebones which, i read somewhere in NBR, is rumored to enter in Q2, Q3.
If it is known that it has a 120hz monitor, no rubber finish, backlit keyboard (I really don't need/want this last item but others are crazy for this), some might wait (not me).
3D in the laptop a reason to wait?? Most of us already use a projector or external monitor for 3D gaming at home. Plus most people get headaches after 1.5 hours. So, let it mature. 3 years down the road, we'll get Nintendo 3DS screens slapped onto laptops

 

few resellers have been quoting mid april. check the 6970 eta thread (although they're an Australian reseller)

really think this will happen? is BF3 going to be that intense?

where'd you hear Q2/Q3? i've only seen people say Q1'12 for the revision of their x7200 line. i honestly dont think 3D is a reason to wait. just my opinion though. lots of people in the alienware forum got the 3D setup, said it was cool for a few days, then lost its appeal due to headaces or just not being exciting as the hype made it seem.

on a side note, one of my friends got a 3DS, and i could barely look at the thing lol. was messing with my head! had to turn the 3D down.. kinda weird/cool the way they implemented it

 

Guess i didn't do my research and made a bad guess.

I read that BF3 is built only on DX11 and wont support dx9 and Xp. So far, the worst that the 485M has had to put up with is crysis 2, but thats only with dx9. There is also Metro 2033 which, if you check notebookcheck, runs at 14-17 FPS (if im not wrong) on the 485M. And although they didn't say it, i think they tried to max metro 2033 out on dx11.
So all this made me think BF3 would be power-hungry.
Source: http://feeds.gametrailers.com/users/Imin2Nuggets/gamepad/

yeah, 3D should be left to evolve. Let them test it out on the guinea pigs first. We can jump on it once its refined.

And i'm really sorry i said the next clevo barebones is rumored at Q3. I went back to my source. The fellow was being sarcastic, saying that Clevo is chucking out new barebones every other quarter-year.
So, if the next one's gonna come out next year, then there are no reasons to wait.

The aim is to have the most powerful (single-gpu) laptop for as long as possible.

 

We don't have an ETA for the 5 series. What I'm trying to say is if he needs an upgrade do it now. If he wants an upgrade then wait.

 

mobile GPU's incite spicy debate. =) At this point, I will give the 6970 two more weeks to trickle down to the 8150. It's already in the 7280 so hopefully it will spread amongst the Sager ranks...

 

Q4 or Q1 2012 will be 28nm GPU time.

AMD and Nvidia will have their mobile refreshes out before Q3.

 

it'll be some time after this though that clevo picks up support for them

 

Yeah, if history is any indication, we won't be getting anything totally new till Q1 2012. There may be some minor boosts from both camps though this year.

 

GPU refreshes, which are simple core revisions, never take any significant time to implement.

The move from 9800M GT/GTX to GTX 200M was literally overnight.

 

I like to summarize. Let me summarize. The point of this thread is: to wait or not to wait? for whatever new hardware and their conjoined benefits.

SUMMARY OF THIS THREAD - The Reasons one could wait:


1. Nvidia and AMD GPUs:
Kevin_Jack2.0 was right. Refreshes of the GPUs should come out before or in early Q3. This is because:
"On the Nvidia's GPU technology conference, Nvidia announced that 28nm Kepler GPU will replace the current 40nm Fermi GPU which will be the first Nvidia's 28nm GPU, coming in the second half of 2011." Source: NVIDIA 28nm Kepler GPU to Replace Fermi in 2011 - Free device drivers Download
This is an article from sept 2010 though. So logically, the refreshes should come out BEFORE they declare its time for 28nm.

The questions now are:
(a)Will these refreshes or the new kepler GPUs fit into a current clevo motherboard (8130, 8150, 8170, 5160, 5170 - with optimus in the last two)?? factors to consider would be power and MXM slots? Lets assume yes only for the refreshes because:

(b)the Kepler GPUs will have definite performance boost over the 485M, but will the refreshes?? Kevin_Jack2.0 can explain more??

(all this stuff you said about core refreshes = more performance?)
sources for more reading on Kepler:

ATI and NVIDIA 28nm GPUs to Start Shipping in Late 2011 - Free device drivers Download

NVIDIA reveals Fermi's successor: Kepler at 28nm in 2011, Maxwell in 2013 -- Engadget

2. Intel CPUs:
"Intel has completed designing Ivy Bridge processors and is planning to showcase them during Computex Taiwan 2011 in June.[60] However, the processors might not come out until 2012." from Wikipedia on IVY BRIDGE

" Just like Nehalem-to-Westmere, Sandy Bridge-to-Ivy Bridge will be more than just a die-shrink, but we should still expect Socket compatibility between the two." source: An old 2009 article. still true?? Intel says no to 28nm, focuses on 22nm: Ivy Bridge/Haswell & Larrabee - Bright Side Of News*

"The first Ivy Bridge family chips are projected to use LGA1155 form-factor. Nonetheless, Intel is preparing code-named Panther Point chipset for the new microprocessors. It is unclear whether Ivy Bridge CPUs will be able to work on current mainboards for latest-generation chips."
source: A New 2011 article. Intel?s Next-Gen Ivy Bridge to Offer 20% - 30% Performance Boost Over Sandy Bridge ? Report - X-bit labs

So, the questions here are:
(a) can we stuff in the Ivy bridge processors onto the clevo motherboards bought now? Looks like a BIG NO.
(b) do the Ivy Bridge processors warrant an 8-9 month wait??

3. Clevo Barebones:
If Ivy bridge needs motherboards to be rehauled with this new "panther point" chipset, a new barebones will come out from Clevo. This will again be in Q1 2012 (an assumption); too far away.

Conclusion arranged in ascending order of wait times:
(a)should we get the sandy bridge now with a 485M or the 6970M and be happy till the Maxwell GPUs and Rockwell CPUs come out 2/2.5 years later?
(b)wait it out a few more months and get the current clevo models but with the refreshed MGPUs. Kevin_Jack2.0 please explain if the refreshes will beat the 485M and with respect to what (for eg, if its just in terms of power consumption, i would just go with the 485M now, whereas i could wait for a performance boost)
(c)wait it out till Q42011/Q12012 and get a 28nm GPU (that beats the 485M), with an Ivy Bridge processor, with a new Clevo Barebones?? In the meanwhile, go read a book.

 

boom. well said.

 

The 6970 is out tomorrow:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/566861-decisions-decisions.html#post7333036

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...adeon-6970m-eta-resellers-37.html#post7332342

 

Um...AWESOME.

let's hope the 6970 is a cheap upgrade over the 460......

 

10 months for a 20-30% boost is actually one of the best times to upgrade in recent memory... Usually the 20-30% boost comes in like 6 months so might as well upgrade now. You won't notice the difference.

As for GPU, unless it comes with a significant price drop, buying now or later is not a big difference. The 485m I have is probably the least cost effective option but it truly does make it a desktop replacement and I got it a month earlier.

 

Good point. This is my first foray into custom gaming laptops and I'll take your word on it.

you are saying the core refreshes that we speculate will come out in early Q3 won't have a significant performance boost??

Where is MR. Kevin_Jack2.0? he posted about all the refreshes and the new GPU names and their CUDA core counts. I couldn't find info on that or i'd make another big summary speculating upon performance boosts of the refreshes. ANyone?? Kevin_Jack2.0?? Somebody get his attention.

 

When i was younger (6 years or so ago - 2005) i bothered my parents for a Geforce 5200. A year later, i sold that for a geforce 6600.

Then, towards the end of my college i finally got a laptop with a 8600MGS; a Hp dv9000. I got my taste of mobile gaming.

ANyway, I've always been geforce. So, even with the 6970 coming out, I'm still thinking 485M.

Any reason why one should shell out more for the 485M over the cheaper 6970??

3d vision? better drivers? more games support? any reason?

Could this be a separate thread?? Done: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/567632-485m-vs-6970m.html#post7334848

 

Why'd you leave out the 8130?

Mr. Mysterious

 

SOrry, ill add it in for whoever reads it next.

 

Oh ok, good Gave me a small heart attack there lol

Mr. Mysterious

 

Well, I'm done talking about the GTX 500M, until official announcements are made. I'm already testing the boundaries of what falls under NDAs.

 

HAHAHAHA ROLF. I thought you were going to discuss something with us, when you said you'll post something here. Okay, no problem.

No one is going to wait for the refreshes even if you started a rumor that they have higher performances than the 485M; Everyone will probably cave-in to the 6970M now, since thats the next 2 week's novelty item.
<I wonder which *evil* corporation is tying up your hands>

 

torn myself. Budget allows for a 485, or I can get the 6970, save 200 and upgrade to 2720 processor or an ssd option. Any suggestions?

 

Discussion on this thread http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/567632-485m-vs-6970m.html would definitely suggest that you take the 6970 and use whatever you save to get yourself whatever extra thing you want.
As to the question of whether you want the faster processor or the SSD, i'd say go for the ssd, since 2620 is good enough for gaming (if thats your use).
Maybe this can convince you of the ssd's benefit:
YouTube - Intel Solid-State Drive 510 Series Starcraft II Load Time Demo

 

I do game and thanks a bunch for the info. I was already leaning towards an SSD, but this seals the deal for me.

 

Well, my issue is, I don't want to post a bunch of info which turns out to be false, and be left looking stupid and untrustworthy. So, just regard everything I'm typing as false..

The last thing I will add, is that the GTX 560M and 580M are supposed to to be clocked slightly higher than the chips they're replacing, so in theory, they're nothing to get excited over, other than the fact that the 580M will be cheaper than the GTX 485M.

The GTX 570M, on the other hand, is a dark horse. A 14.3% increase in shaders, plus higher clocks, could very well help it to close the gap between it and the 485M, at a much much cheaper price point.

I wouldn't wait for any of them, but it would be tempting, if I was still saving up for a future machine. The 570M is tantalizing, but who knows what Clevo will even pick up and add to its line?

 

Well said. Thanks for this discussion. I'm not waiting either. I'll seal the deal on the 485M or the 6970M now.

 

I just ordered, and went with the 6970M. The $250 gap was just too much for me to consider the 485M as a logical option. I spent the difference on the better screen and a Blu-ray drive.

Choose wisely.

 

I live in Singapore. I have two choices:

1.Order from XOTICPC and when it arrives here, the postman will charge me 7%(cost of laptop + shipping + shipping insurance) ill lose 200 singapore dollars just on this.

2.Or order from local resellers that are not as active as the US resellers; they dont offer anything except what sager decides. That means I cant get the matte monitor from here. So, I got nothing to spend my budget on except SSDs. Since they affect only loading times, I really dont need them.

So, if i choose option 2, then i have nothing extra at all to spend the cost of the saved money on (not that i really HAVE to spend it on something). Plus, though the 6970 may have arrived for you today, it will another month before the resellers here update their lists. (yes, really!)

 

You can order the screen, and put it in yourself.

 

But won't that mean I will have two screens in my hand. How can i get the money back on the glossy screen.

How much does the standalone matte 95% screen cost anyway?

 

you can try to sell the stock on on here or locally.. or keep it as a back up incase you have problems with the aftermarket one. plus you may or may not need to put the stock one back in if you need warranty work. depends on your singaporian reseller warranty rulez

if you cant find a way to spend the money locally, i will help you out. but just this once! I'll pm you my address and you can write a check for the difference then mail it standard shiping (i'll waaait for standard shipping, just cuz i'm a nice person) to me. there, money spent. i'll even create an email receipt for you saying you bought computer stuff. for your records of course. keep this on the down-low though, dont want a bunch of people asking me to do this for them..

 

Not sure if I am following everything your saying, but if you save some money, couldn't you go with less ram, and then buy it there and install yourself, for much cheaper? Or save on the drive and buy local and again install yourself? Not everything inside your lappy needs to be bought from the reseller and installed by them. If you save a few hundred, and then a bit more on ram and drive, then buy local and do the install yourself, you could put together a mean machine for less. But as I said, I didn't read everything... and it's late here, won't read everything until this weekend.

 

These are among the easiest user upgradeable laptops for sale today. If you have access to components aftermarket, you could make yours a heckofa lappy. And save some money.

 

Let me iterate the points mountainlifter_k mentioned, since I'm also from Singapore and wanting to buy the laptop.

We have 2 resellers here in Singapore. Basically, we do not have the luxury to have those custom customization provided by the US resellers.
Eg. Matte screen, no RAM etc.

If we want those customizations, we have to go for the US resellers. Which in return means we need to pay extra 7% tax + shipping fees, not to mention additional shipping fees when the laptop need repairs.

If we go with the local resellers, we cannot even request not to have RAM. The reason being Sager disallow it and our resellers cannot do anything.

In overall, we saved money buying from resellers, but we cannot use the money to buy things we want, like matte screen for example.

So do you see our dilemma. We want to spend the money that is worth i, NOT wasting it on tax and shipping.

 

Personally, I think if you want to buy a laptop, just pull the trigger. There's no use even waiting for a month just because a new video card is coming out. New video cards come out every 3 months or so. New processors come out every year. The laptop you buy now will be outdated in 3-4 months, that's just how technology works. So just pull the trigger. Also, are you REALLY going to notice a huge difference between the 485 and the 570? A difference so big that you would wait more than a month or two for?

Unless you play professional Starcraft in Korea, I don't see a point in having to update to the newest video card on the market. My video card 285m runs Starcraft 2 like a charm and it's over a year old. Even for me, I don't see the point in upgrading to a new video card anytime soon.

 

You guys don't have any friends living in the States? Here's how I'm getting my sager; I sent the money to my friend who lives in San Francisco, then I tell him what to order, after he gets it, he will ship it to me with the cheapest way possible. Which is $10 for 1kg, which I figure the notebook will be 5-6kgs, but it takes 2 weeks to arrive in Mongolia. Now I think Singapore is a lot more developed country if you compare it to Mongolia, there should be some kind of cheap shipping company or whatever.

I also heard there is a way to order something in the US, get it shipped to some mail forwarder company then let them ship it out to you. It could cost less than directly ordering from xotic.... then you wouldn't have to pay the extra 7%(companies in Mongolia charge 10%)

 

Well said. You are right ofcourse. But lets look at it from a different perspective. The Fermi line is going to end this Q3 and wouldn't you like to have the last and best the line can offer. I mean this is especially important if you are not buying another laptop or upgrading for 3 more years. Whats a 2 month wait when guaged against 40 months. PLus the price could even be cheaper.
If this was the start of the fermi line, i'd just say your suggestion is perfect.

Here is The local Reseller Mucro's warranty Terms: I hope its not illegal to paste them here. (no defamation here MUCRO. just discussion)

IF I AM TO BUY FROM THIS SINGAPORE RESELLER:

THEN, ill have to say no to Hizzaah's gracious offer . I won't even be able to install my own hard disk or RAM sticks; forget about swapping monitors. and forget about selling the stock one.

I restate that the whole point of this enterprise (of importing from the US) is to get the matte screen which we don't get here.
Ordering the clevo from XOTICPC or MALIBAL (without RAM and HARDDISK) will still incur a 160 dollars shipping cost. Add to that mix the fact that upon arrival of the unit, we will be charged 7% TAX on the total stuck to the side of the box (including shipping + shipping insurance costs).
All this for the matte screen alone.

And if i buy here, like i said above, i cant swap out the monitor myself cause that would void the warranty from the reseller here.

Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

EDIT: I haven't thought about ordering from LOGICAL BLUE ONE, from AUS. hmmm. why didn't i think of this before.

 

What about warranty man? you would have to send it to the US for major repairs if any.

By buying from our local resellers we are covered for any shipping to SAGER HQ for major repairs.