so...nvidia sucks, huh?

what's worse than the fact that they released a line of apparently defective products is that they're being so ambiguous as to which products we need to look out for. In a field which evolves as rapidly as graphics cards, "previous generation" could mean...anything. Considering the 9xxx series already has a few products out, is it conceivable that us 8800m GTX users can be regarded as previous gen? I know I won't be the only one to be angry and disappointed if the card we paid top dollar for, the card that was, at the time of purchase, best in the world, turns out to be a giant lemon. Do you guys think it's possible that our top end babies could be part of the massive recall?

 

I guess you could evaluate whether it's defective or not from it's performance ? Like the 3DMark06 score ? I remember a guy with an AW M15X with a defective *motherboard* as he was saying, was getting a score of 3500 as opposed to 9000+ with his 8800M GTX. Guess that's when you know your card is defective... I mean, if you're getting good score/performance, then why WOULD it be one of the defective GPUs ?

 

I highly doubt they even mean the 8000 series cards. I think they are most likely referring to either some 7000 series cards or even 6000 series...

But then again that's just speculation, but so is everyone's point of view atm. lol

 

I hope it doesn't effect the Geforce 8 Mobile series because I just got this M1530 with a Mobile 8600 GT.

 

I'm not going to worry about this at the moment as I don't know if it's even about the 8800m.
Besides, I still have my warranty from Sager.

 

Well, I think the details of the article stated that the nature of the defect was such that the cards were prone to shorter life spans, or breaking "in the field" yada yada.

What's encouraging is that the article says that these GPUs are only going to have problems in certain brands of notebooks. If this comes down to how effectively these laptops keep the cards cool, I don't think we Sager owners have to worry about much...

 

'nuff said, Callidor!

 

look at the news artical, on the front page, if you read some people's comments it apprear to be 7000 series cards that are affected.

 

yeah that's what i got the 7150 but it haven't messed up yet

 

Oddly enough, the 7150M is actually based off a GF8 chip

 

I completely agree. As long as you are not experiencing problems with your graphics card then it is not defective even if they might consider it to be defective. It might have come from a defective batch but that doesn't mean they were all defective products.
Tim

 

What if it means it's going to have an unnaturally short life-span though?

 

That's when warranties over one year come in handy

 

that doesn't do much to put my mind at ease >.>

 

I'm waiting for new Sagers to come out before I order one. But this has me worried. Hopefully it's just some of the older cards.

 

the article did mention 8000 series mobile vga..

http://gizmodo.com/5021713/lots-of-nvidia-laptop-graphics-cards-are-overheating-dying

 

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/07/02/nvidia-opens-whoop-ass-itself


here is another one....




just run Fn+1

also thats why the next vid card will be 9800 (an overclocked 8800) they have nothing else new in the roadmap.

 

were are you getting this info?


laptopvideo2go says they are gonna release drivers taht fix the problem.... gets the fans spinning earlier to keep em cool... i dont think we sager users have to worry about it as my 8800 never gets over 70C even under the most stressful load, (infact ive never seen it at 70C) The highest ive ever seen it is 67C well within acceptable temps imo.

I idle at around 40C.

 

relax crazy there not saying who has the defective materials......

end

 

Sager/Clevo is not experiencing a high failure rate as has been widely reported by other OEMs, but that is most likely due to their superior thermal solutions, and their conservative thermal budget.

 

what Donald just said is killing me. I am buying a laptop for my cousin as a gift for going to college. and m15x is on my list.

 

I was hoping you would weigh in on the matter. That is good to hear...is there any more insider info you know? ie: is this related to the mass overheating issues with 8800s in the m15x? If it is...I see that as both good news and bad news. That bad news being that the 8m series is part of the problem..and that has me worried. The good news is that these issues seem isolated to some notebooks and not others...and Sager is known for their impressive cooling. If this whole thing is just nothing more than "8800s overheat in the m15x." then it's certainly nothing new.

 

Nirvana can i become your cousin

 

Your either oblivious to the dozens of threads and reports about alienware units having heating problems or the most paranoid person on these forums....quit posting about this already. If there was a problem with the clevo units it would have already been fixed. There are no problems with the 8800m graphics cards and there never have been. Take two minutes and do a search about alienware laptops......

 

So, Nirvana... if it's bothering you and worrying you, why even consider an m15x? I'm sure you'r cousin will think the lights are neato, but it's more important that you get something that is solid and reliable.

I had ordered an m15x myself, and ended up cancelling because I realized that it wasn't going to be a good laptop for my needs. I'm so pleased with my Clevo, and couldn't recommend it more highly. It feels really good to have a computer that performs at a very high level, and that I don't need to worry about. Like Donald said - they handled the thermal-issues very conservatively, and the results speak for themselves.

 

Um...I beg your pardon? Perhaps you misread what I wrote. In my last post, I was acknowledging that Alienware laptops (the m15x in particular) have a history of heating issues. That was precisely my point: that this whole event would not be "news" at all if it were merely a public announcement that the m15x overheats. With that in mind, I have NO idea where or how you're ascertaining the obviously false notion that I am oblivious to the m15x's issues. As a matter of fact, I owned one.

Secondly, unless you are an Nvidia employee, you can not say with any greater certainty than the rest of us which products are or are not affected. I shall see to it that your inexplicably hostile post is reported to a moderator.

 

I hope you do report it, because this thread should be closed, its completely pointless and we don't need 5 of these threads about the same subject....Information has already been released on several gpu's that are affected to top it off they said older generation gpu's are affected....not the newest high end gpu!!!!

 

it is news because that have admitted to it with out saying who received the bad batch....

in other words alienware probably lowed balled them so low they used inferior materials on their units. IMO...

 

Unless you can show me otherwise, any "information" is speculative. Nvidia has not disclosed which specific products are experiencing problems, save for their original quote: "previous generation." Considering there are already 9 series cards available, I think it's fair and reasonable to discuss the possibility that this could include the 8 series cards. I agree that it's very unlikely that this is the case...but I see no harm in discussing things on a discussion board. If this thread is actually in violation of some rule, or for some reason constitutes spam, I will happily see it closed.

Until that decision is made, however, I see no reason why you should be acting so aggressively over what is nothing more than a discussion of current events. On top of that, your post from a few minutes ago demonstrates that you either didn't read what I wrote, or you entirely misunderstood it.

 

I'm sure a mod will clean these threads up, just completely pointless to keep 5 of these threads going. Alienware problems go in the alienware forum....sager/clevo problems go in the sager/clevo thread and since there are no sager/clevo problems that makes this thread completely pointless. Donald already said sager is not experiencing a high failure rate what more do you people want. Sounds more like you people actually want something to be wrong with your laptops...

 

The news here is that Nvidia's products may be defective. If the problem is with the GPU, then the laptop that it's put inside of is irrelevant. That is why I made this thread; not because I was worried about something related to Clevo or Sager, but because I was worried about something related to Nvidia...something related to a core component of my computer.

Now, since Donald has confirmed that Sager is not reporting any high degree of failures with their products, that's good news. Considering I hadn't heard from Donald before I made the original post, however, I still can't figure out why you're so upset. Anyway, I have no intention of carrying on a 1-on-1 argument in a public thread. If this discussion doesn't get back on track, I agree the thread should probably be closed. It's getting out of hand.

 

The only thing nvidia said is that "there are defective previous-generation graphics chips due to packaging and poor thermal constraints of laptops". What does this mean, if your laptop overheats due to the gpu then there is a problem. So callidor does your laptop overheat due to the gpu? Does anyone on the sager/clevo forum with a 8800m gtx have overheating problems? I bet 99.9999999999% of you are saying no. Wanna know why? Because thats why you bought a clevo/sager. You bought a reliable product from a reliable seller, clevo/sager already took care of any overheating problems if any and they will continue to do that hence the model updates such as the update to the heatsinks from the 5792 to the 5793.

 

Ya but that doesn't mean that there still isn't a problem. The GPUs in the m15x are more apparent because they have a bad thermal solutio/casing. Whereas in Sager laptops the thermal solution is good so there are no issues so far. But down the road 1 - 2 years from now if the laptops are indeed defective it will start to show, whereas there would be no problem if it werent 2 years from now.

 

This is becoming frustrating. Apparently I've not done a very good job of explaining the original subject of this thread, and I think I may now be able to clear up the misunderstanding. You see, the article that Chaz posted on NBR's front page, and the countless other articles scattered throughout the internet focus on defective GPUs from Nvidia. The implication of such a subject is that these GPUs, regardless of the laptop that they are used in, are faulty.

When I made the original post of this thread, it was under the pretense, given to me by these various articles, that the problem was inherent in the cards, and the fault of Nvidia. That is what must be established and understood before we can proceed with this discussion. When I created this thread, I was not saying that I was concerned that Sager had done a bad job with its cooling system. I was saying that I was nervous that my Sager laptop had within it a card made by Nvidia which may break at any time, regardless of how well the cooling system worked.

When Donald posted saying that the problem is NOT about the cards just being "bad," but more about cooling systems of individual laptops, that is when I replied, saying "it's not news if it's just what we've all already known about the m15x etc. etc." ie: the same thing you were saying. And for some reason, you responded to it with extreme derision. See how it doesn't really make sense?

 

The only problem is a thermal issue problem and laptops overheating....nvidia's fix so far is to provide oem's with a driver that makes the fans turn on sooner....this is why I don't understand what you people are talking about its not a defective build its a problem with the thermal threshold. Saying your gpu might break 1-2 years down the line is just silly...course it might break in 1-2 years and to expect them to fix it in 2 years from now is never going to happen. You get a 1 year warranty thats it...you want more then buy a extended warranty simple as that.

 

i think what callidor is triing to say is that, in the case that the 8800m gtx is effected and defective, it may have caused higher heat than it should have.

in the m15x this is highly seen since it has crap cooling. the sager systems MAY! have the problem, but the clevo laptops have such good cooling systems, that it makes the problem irrelevant and not an issue. is that fair to say?

 

The case of the M15x should be taken with a pinch of salt when addressing the issue of who is to blame.
In fact, not only the GPU overheats, but also the CPU overheats (and the extreme processors downclock). So maybe we should start a big movement saying that Intel screwed up because the extreme processors on the M15x are downclocking and it's all Intel's fault...

I have yet to come across any 8800GTX failing on a Sager. I haven't seen any, but I haven't been browsing this forum so actively as I've been doing the Alienware one. On the Alienware forum, you have GPU's being reported defective EVERY week (sometime several during one week).
So... even if the 8800GTX works warmer than it should, if it's not going above 80ºC on the Sager, I don't really see a point on saying its "defective".

No one even knows which GPUs are "defective".

So... who's to blame? Nvidia for making powerful GPUs like the 8800GTX (that warm up because they are powerful) or some greedy OEMs (namely... Alienware) that wants to stick one of those without making sure that it can work without failing after one month?

 

My NP9262 suddenly stopped turning on about a month ago. That's after about 3 months or so of use. Apparently something was wrong with the video card. Thankfully I got it back good as new! But now I'm suscpicious that the card was defective or something because I wasn't abusing it or anything. I do use fn+1.

I had a thread about this a few weeks ago.

 

If your NP9262 wouldn't boot I doubt very much that it had anything to do with the video card.

It was more likely an AC Adapter or motherboard failure.

 

Didn't you get an invoice back with the system stating what work was done?

 

Sager warranty repairs never include documentation telling what was done. If the customer is interested they can ask the tech support team.

 

Well if anyone has cash burning a hole in their wallet now wound be a good time to invest in NVIDIA with the share prices being so low

I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion a little, that's the impression I got from NVIDIA the last time I spoke to them. As has been stated by other people here the actual NVIDIA statement is a little ambiguous but it does cite both component and chassis issues. They haven't said "all *** cards are going to fail/have a serious reliability issue" and the share drop situation has just made people more paraniod.

I think that if there were a serious issue with 8800M GTXs in CLEVO chassis then we would already know about it through this forum and both Justin, Donald and I would know about it through our customers.

 

I agree Neil,

I also think the reaction on the stock price is also due to the anticipated competition from ATi, but so far we don't see anything from them that impresses us. They are buggy, and they are not producing the benchmarks that ATi is touting. Once this becomes better known the chances are the nVIDIA stock will climb back past $20.

 

I've never really known much about ATI cards...never owned one. Do their high end GPUs come close to the performance of the new 9800s and GX2s? (That is, when they're working properly, of course)

 

I assume you're talking about desktop cards if you mentioned GX2s Callidor, if so take a peek here

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=13953

the answer is yes they are competing performance wise (just about) with the 9800 cards but not with the 280s.

 

If any problems may arise I sure hope that nvidia's solution is not only to release a new driver because I'm using Linux 90% of the time and I try not to use any proprietary software and that includes gpu drivers.
Isn't the gpu bios controlling the fans though or am I mistaken?

 

I can say that my 8800m GTX works 100% perfectly. Absolutely no issues, and PowerMizer works correctly (I enable it when it gets a little too humid outside; lower clocks = lower temp when not gaming).

I agree with everyone on the fact that the possible defective cards being in our Clevo machines is doubtful. Nobody seems to report dead cards or malfunctioning cards on this board. We should be thankful.

 

Wouldn't putting cash into AMD be a better investment? Intels next generation bloomsfield won't support sli, but it will support crossfire. Unless Nvidia puts out a better cpu or a decent cpu soon, or they make a gpu that can beat crossfire 4870x2's then a lot of people wont be buying nvidia if they want the very best.

 

isnt crossfire and sli the same?

 

Well most of us haven't owned the 8800M cards for very long time. I think time will tell if the 8800M series are faulty or not.