xoticpc vs malibal (Sager 8130)

I'm torn between these two for purchasing a Sager 8130 (Clevo P151HM1). I have purchased from xotixpc in the past and the process was smooth. However malibal offers a 30 day return with no restocking fees. None of the optional $100 zero dead pixel thing. I always thought that was lame. Shipping is a little more with malibal but that 30 day return is really luring me.

Any reason you can think of to go with xoticpc over malibal?

 

The only thing I can say in terms of Xotic is that if you are a return customer, they might give you a small discount... plus, depending on the laptop you get Xotic doesn't charge a restocking fee (at least not for their Sagers), they just won't give you the shipping fee back.

 

But if there are a few dead pixels, xoticpc won't take it back unless you pay $100 for "insurance".

 

Incorrect, you have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee that you could return it on

 

Then what is the point of the $100 zero dead pixel guarantee? That makes no sense.

 

The point is they will make sure you have a good clean display, with zero defects., Otherwise you may or may not get a perfect screen. So is it worth the 100 bucks (60 if you order the S1 version) to ensure a good display and not have to send back your machine (at your expense), get a refund and reorder somewhere else.

 

People will just recommend who they've bought a machine from, regardless of the quality of the other company. Only someone who's dealt with both can give you a reliable opinion.

Your best bet is to contact each company personally, then go with who gives you the better vibe.

They're both good options, overall.

Do note that they all offer Sager's 30 no questions asked return policy.

 

Keep in mind that if you get a screen within the dead pixel guidelines that you also have to pay shipping to ship it back to Sager and shipping out on the new machine. (If you opt for refund the original shipping is non refundable). When you figure shipping at $35-$45 each way that totals $70-$90. Paying for the 100 Zero DP up front saves allot of hassle is a minimal up-charge if you unfortunately get one.

In addition, all Sager Resellers, including Xotic PC, offer a 30 Day Return Policy with No Restocking Fee. (As long as it is returned exactly as it was shipped to you) You are only out shipping as with other sellers. You can return it for whatever reason within 30 days of shipment. As others have stated we do offer returning customer discounts

 

I have not purchased from either company yet but I am far more impressed by Malibal.

Xoticpc and others selling Clevo 1920x1080 displays have one big problem. The whole thing of having to pay $100 to be sure that a "good working display" is installed in the laptop is a Scam. All of the parts of a laptop should be in perfect working order when the customer receives it. No lame excuses, or cost analysis of over inflated shipping costs are needed. Nor, should they be tolerated.

When a consumer is shelling out $1800 to $2400 for a laptop, the company should stand behind it 100% Please don't tell us that you are if you have to charge more to insure that the laptop we are purchasing is not made up rejected parts from other laptops.

 

@ danzeman - I agree in part. In this day and age there is no excuse to ship a machine with a bad pixel. I can understand if one crops up after a certain amount of time, just the nature of the technology. But it should be much less likely these days unless they just do zero quality control.

If I get one with a bad pixel it's going back and I'm ordering from someone else because I'm not paying for round trip shipping. I didn't realize Malibal offered this service for free. That's good to know.

Also note that it's 30 days from when the laptop is shipped which is also another crap part of the warranty. It should be from when the product arrives to you. It's all tracked in the system and no need for questions when you got it. Plus it has to be back in their hands before the end of the 30 days as well. So if you use UPS Ground, that could consume 10 BUSINESS DAYS, which could be as much as 14 days if you include weekends. Still that gives you two weeks to evaluate which should be more than enough time. But I just don't like that part of the warranty. Or the fact that you have to pay $100 either.

 

It doesn't sit well with me either. If I'm sending you $1,500, that should be part of the process. There shouldn't be a premium to making sure the screen doesn't suck. That creates undo anxiety for those who don't pay the $100.

 

Or just build the actual cost into the price of the laptop, but should be less than half that. I guess for covering shipping charges, but then again, you're probably only getting less than 1% with a dead pixel, so it could be distributed among all the others that don't have bad pixels.

It makes it sound like they ship crap monitors unless you pay the $100.

That being said, Justin@XoticPC can you provide us with any stats on returned laptops due to a bad pixel in first 30 days? Thanks.

 

It does. It's a terrible option to have listed when configuring a computer. It's just an unneeded fee. If it is so rare, the company can absorb the cost. They pay less for shipping than the average customer does anyway. Even with labor costs of having someone actually open the laptop and look, it shouldn't be anywhere near $100.

I understand profit margins are probably low here, but ensuring the screen works as described should not be an "added value". That should be part of the purchase.

 

Sorry I don't have any stats on what % is good or bad. Since Mailbal's systems are built at Sager's factory they would have the same likelyhood of a Dead Pixel.

It's not that Sager ships unacceptable LCD's it is they are bound to what Clevo provides them and unfortunately the screens that are used have the chance of a Dead Pixel. The option for the 0 DP Guarantee is for those that want the 30 Day Guarantee and not deal with any of the hassle if they get the unfortunate dead pixel. (with returning and re-shipping)

I agree with all of you that it would be nice to be built into the cost and everybody's price goes up, hopefully same day we will get closer to this or find a more acceptable medium.

As long as you have the RMA set up within 30 Days of shipment usually Sager provides time for you to ship the item to them and for them to receive it. Although it would be better to have it 30 days from receipt there is still ample time to review the system with 30 days from ship date. On average that provides 23-27 days to "review" your new system and decide if you want to keep it.

 

Since their both essentially the same laptop. I say just go for the cheaper one, thats what I did. My friend should be receiving mine on Monday (had it shipped to him so he can make sure everything is okay before shipping it overseas), hopefully there won't be any defects with the screen

 

Keep in mind they all price match each other, so really the choice should come down to who you feel most comfortable with.

 

Really? With MALIBAL they said that they would guarantee their price would be cheaper than Sager's, which in-fact they were. The specs in my sig came out to 2,488.43 USD, thats with the cash discount of 3%, and thats also excluding a copy of windows as I already had one.

Here are the specs.


PRODUCT Lotus P150HM
Display: 15.6" 1920 x 1080 FHD LED Backlit
GlassView Display
Processor: Intel® CoreT i7-2820QM, 8MB L3 Cache, $190.00
2.30GHz
Memory: (8GB) 8192MB, PC3-10660/1333MHz DDR3 - 2
SO-DIMM
Graphics Card: NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 485M 2GB GDDR5 $495.00
Hard Drive: 500GB 7200rpm 2.5" SATA 300 Hybrid w/ $20.00
4GB NAND Flash
Optical Drive: 6X Blu-ray Burner 8X DVD+/-R DL $185.00
Super-Multi Drive
Wireless: Intel® 6230 Advanced-N 802.11A/B/G/N $25.00
LAN and Bluetooth Card
Cooling: IC Diamond 7 Thermal Compound, CPU & GPU
Warranty: 3 Year Ltd. Labor and 1 Year Parts
Warranty with 24/7 USA-Based Support
Accessories: 30 Day No Dead Pixel Guarantee - $60.00
QTY: 1
PRICE $1,534.00 $1,534.00
PRODUCT SUBTOTAL: $2,509.00

Less discounts used: ($75.27)
Shipping Charges: $54.70
=====================
Total: $2,488.43

The same exact specs including a windows home premium copy comes out to 2,649.00 usd with Sager. Just did it in the configurator and thats with their promotion of 175USD off. There doesn't seem to be a mention of a cash discount so maybe they show you that option during checkout, in which case your right it would probably end up close as the cash discount is 3% if I am not mistaken. Also the sager price is excluding shipping.

 

Well, actually - some resellers have a low price guarantee... where they not only match but beat any advertised price. So make sure you never overpay!

 

Really

(10 char)

 

So you guys sell the laptop specs in my previous post at the same price? Says it comes out to 2616.41 usd with the cash discount applied. And thats excluding shipping ofcourse. Thats for the exact same specs, including IC diamond thermal compound and so forth.

 

As others have said all you have to do is ask or use our Pricematch feature on our website. Our web prices are minimal increase in price but also include 24/7 Domestic Phone Based Support with these models. Being a Sager Reseller we are required to have minimum "Advertised Price" as provided by Sager.

 

Ah I understand now, because your right I did have to ask before I got such a discount. Sneaky little people you resellers are jk jk ^_^ in that case its just a matter of personal preference Vitalsign0.

 

This is worse than buying a used car.

 

Hello Justin,

Can you expand on your statement about paying for the $100 Zero Dead Pixel up front saves a lot of hassle?

Thank you!

 

^ Returning a Computer (with the 30 day return policy) and ordering a new one = Hassle and downtime without the laptop.

Shipping both ways (with downtime) = $70-$90 and the next machine doesn't guarantee it will have a 0 DP Screen, you are purchasing a new one utilizing the 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee.

Up Front 0 DP Warranty (no downtime) = $100

See where I am going with this?

 

Justin Nolte:

No I don't see where you are going with this. Your company has a low class of service if this is what a customer has to go through. $100 quality insurance should not be a normal part of business for this type of equipment. If Clevo is sending you low quality displays, you should address it with them, not us the customer.

 

To be fair you can't just put this on Xotic PC, both MALIBAL and Sager also have this as an option.

 

If I recall correctly from when I bought my notebook in 2007, the Sager branded notebooks have a standard dead pixel policy that says the notebook will have no more than five dead pixels total and none in the center of the screen. IMHO, that's not that bad based on the manufacturing process of these panels.

There's just no way to make sure that every panel will have no dead or stuck pixels. I see dead pixels on numerous screens, and most people don't even notice them. I personally do, and if I ever received a screen with dead pixels, I would definitely return it. However, there's no way to avoid potential dead pixels, so offering the warranty for those who want peace of mind is a good move.

By the way, didn't know you guys offered discounts to return customers. I think I'll keep that in mind.

 

You should be glad Sager and the resellers have this option, go to Dell or some other large manufactures, they don’t even offer (at least that I am aware of) a zero defect option. The displays they use are no different in they can have dead or hot pixels as well. The displays they use on these Sager machines are very good.

See this post:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/7075753-post6.html

Edit: Asus does have a 30 day warranty

 

Malibal doesn't

 

Sorry you feel that way. It is simply Sager's policy and the same option EVERY Sager Reseller Offers, including Sager themselves. I dont know what else to say. Guess you need to shoot the messenger.

Malibal may not offer the option, which is at their discretion, but ultimately have the same likelihood of a Dead Pixel as they all come from the same source. (Sager)

 

What the heck? Where did the option go? If you go check 2 pages back where I posted my specs you'll notice that there is a no dead pixel gaurantee that you can pay for, it costs 60 USD. That's a direct copy paste of the bill they sent me through email.

Edit: alright before it was under the accessories section of the configuration page, now after talking to a rep it seems like they removed it but still offer it as an option by special request. So yes MALIBAL does in fact still have this policy where you have to pay extra for a 30 day gaurantee of no dead pixels.

 

I've never seen it on their site.

It really is BAD marketing. I would rather not see the option and if there is a problem we work it out then. I really don't like being asked to pay $100 (random arbitrary number? ) to turn on the laptop.

It would be like buying a car and they have a "$100 - Crack Free Windshield" option.

Bury the cost somewhere in your products and advertise "Zero Dead Pixel Guarantee for all our laptops!"

 

I know what you mean, read my edit in my previous post.

 

But do you see the difference in perception? Chances are your laptop will be fine from Sager or Xoticpc, etc. But by putting that option you are devaluing the product you are selling and causing unneeded anxiety to less informed customers. Just check the laptops you sell.

It mostly makes me angry because this is an industry wide wart and a golden marketing opportunity for someone and they're not doing it.

 

Yeah I see the difference, to be honest if I didn't see it as an option I wouldn't have even considered it. Out of fear I decided it was better to be safe than sorry.

 

@vitalsign0 I agree. I think that offering a no dead pixel guarantee does give the impression that there is an issue with bad pixels, when - from my experience, virtually no one ever complains about having bad pixels upon the receipt of their laptop.

There might be literally 2 or 3 customers per year who contact us about a pixel issue upon receipt of their laptop, so that is why we don't feel the need to keep a no dead pixel guarantee on site.

Now, with that said - we do have more and more customers contacting us and inquiring about a 30 day no dead pixel guarantee, because they have seen it at other stores, so we do now offer this same 30 day pixel guarantee if a customer requests it.

However, like I said - given past experience - I'm not sure it's really needed, because in the rare case that a customer does have an issue, we can surely help them exchange the notebook within the 30 day return period, which should resolve their issue.

 

To make sure I understand the Zero Dead Pixel guarantee, by purchasing this guarantee, if a customer calls you about a dead pixel within 30 days of the shipment date, not delivery date, that a new machine is sent free of charge to the customer and once the customer has the new machine, the customer sends the defect pixel machine to you without incurring the shipping costs of the new machine and the defective machine. Is my understanding correct?

BTW Justin, I am not trying to stir the pot against Xotipc or any other resellers of the Sager/Clevo machines. I want to make sure I understand the advantages and disadvantages of the policy for possible future purchases.

Thank you for your kind replies.

 

I have to disagree that it’s bad marketing, personally I like the idea of knowing there is a choice or not to ensure the display comes in perfect order, and if it does not the procedure for remedy is much simpler. With the cost about the same for taking care of a bad panel without the warranty, why not get it.

Bad analogy, at least when you buy a car you get to inspect it firsthand. Then you decide if you want it or not. With an internet purchased laptop you obviously don’t have that option.

I think they are aware of this as a solution, but trying to come up with a plan. With the imperfect nature of screen technology there are trades offs to be made in how you handle this. You can imbed the cost in each laptop, offer a warranty, inspect the screen and eat the cost of bad ones, etc…

I think people are making way to big a deal out of this from the posts all over the Sager/Clevo forum, specially the newbies that may not be familiar with the Sager brand and how they have been doing business the past few years.

 

Thank you! +1. That is the information I was looking for, and makes the most sense. Already a 30 day return / exchange guarantee. But with the no dead pixel guarantee you effectively pay $100 for shipping.

I would assume a low dead pixel return or complaint because screen tech has matured greatly. A lower res screen obviously has less chance or issue but even 1080p isn't out of the ordinary.

 

on malibal it is there, go down where USB cables are and what not and there it is with the classic "no" sign.

but honestly, I think people are looking at this the wrong way. it's a warranty. that's it. take or leave. it's like any other warranty one might subscribe to. i think of it as supplemental insurance.

Most manufacturers have a standard on what they consider when a display is DOA. some manufactures have in their return policy that under TEN dead pixels is considered an acceptable unit. &%^$^@ TEN! if you don't like it - you send it back, return and repurchase.

But to guarantee ZERO dead pixels, that takes a great deal of confidence in the displays. MOST LCD have 1-2 dead pixels or close unlit/uneven/miscolored pixels. it's the nature of the technology. if you were a manufacturer there is NO WAY you could say, if it has 1 dead pixel, throw it away... it would KILL your PNL (profit and loss). We deal with "acceptable dead pixels every day.

on your 52 inch LCD - there's most likely a dead pixel in the over 2 million pixels there. should you return it and get a new one? there's no guarentee that the next one will be better... so the ZERO dead pixel warranty is actually pretty generous on the behalf of Sager/clevo/resellers. they are going beyond ACCEPTABLE LCD dead pixel limits, and saying "Hey, if you notice it, even if it is an acceptable margin - we'll take care of it."

To the resellers - the 30 day replacement and the 30 day dead pixel warranty is an oxymoron, and that is what I feel many may be discouraged by. they cover the same first thirty days. but if that warranty was say the first 60 or 90 days, then it may show a little confidence in the product.

Epilogue: if my TV, navigation system, iphone had a "zero dead pixel policy" for 30 days.... i'd be elated... I still see the 1 white pixel on my TV that they won't replace beacuse it's within it's tolerance of 10. it's in the corner, can't see it unless the screen goes dark.. but there it is like the death star from 10 million miles away. I hate it. i just try to forget it's there. But it's "within reasonable limits" and I didn't want to spend 200+ dollars to crate and ship it back, pay any restocking fees and purchase a new one.

my zero dead pixel policy was 60 dollars. more than worh it in my eyes. you may differ.

 

MOST? I don't think so. I find it quite rare to have a dead or even stuck pixel. I'd say a fraction of 1% have it. As user Malibal pointed out 2 or 3 a year is what they see. Not sure how many units they sell a year, but I'd assume a couple thousand at least.

For $60 it's not bad insurance. For $100 a little less so. If I can ship back my unit for $30 and reorder I'll take that option. Now after all this I'll probably end up with a dead pixel. I sure hope not.

That's the other thing I don't understand, the pricing between units. 8130 has Blu-ray for $60, but it's $120 for the others. The S1 dead pixel guarantee is only $60 compared with $100 with the others. Whatever, it is what it is.

 

Don't forget you will pay for the shipping on the second unit, which will be in the 40-50 range from what I see on several reseller sites.

I hope your not jinxed now. that would well... Suck

 

If I return it and reorder it, most places offer free shipping.

 

Really? Have you confirmed this? That is actually pretty resonable

 

yes the incident of a faulty pixel is higher than most percieve. just google "dead pixel". The mere fact that they issue tolerances implies that dead pixels occur on a regular basis, otherwise why offer acceptable amounts? ask any LCD manufacture what their dead pixel waranty is and each one of them will have a tolerance. Why? because they exist. a zero dead pixel policy is a rarity. so what do i do during those 30 days.... scan with a magnifying glass....

 

Yes, Sager has a 30 day 100% money back return policy. Just return get your money and order another one.

It's not that hard to find a dead pixel. Just rotate full screen white and shades of gray and the dead pixel will be solid black and stand out.

Just because there are tolerances doesn't mean its common. It means it's allowable. I'm an engineer and we have designed tolerances primarily to manage cost, but we hold the tolerances as tight as we can. Believe me if we manufactured monitors, and had a long run of monitors (like hundreds or thousands) with 1 or 2 dead pixels, that would not be acceptable by any means. Now if we had a few with a couple dead pixels in every thousand, well, that would be acceptable.

 

Unless Malibal carefully inspects each display before they send it to a customer, the number of dead pixel display units is going to be higher since some people may decide that it is not a problem for them and do not report this issue to Malibal. Or the customers do not wish return, refund and reorder the laptop. Hence, Malibal is not aware of dead pixel issue.

Agreed!

 

Could someone confirm if any of the resellers here check for dead pixels prior to shipment? It takes 30 secs per machine assuming it's already powered up? It'd be nice to know if there was a Sager policy too (I thought I've read somewhere it's none in the middle, no more than 3 anywhere else ).

I have at least 3 dead/stuck pixels on my Dell (upper rt part of screen) and was upset initially, but you get over it I guess.

 

Have you not read the discussion? If they were to check for dead pixels prior prior to shipment why would they have an option for a no dead pixel guarantee that costs money?