xoticpc vs malibal (Sager 8130)

I thought resellers actually received and distributed the laptops. But Sager's come direct from Sager. The resellers just manage the orders and warranty. If it's a Clevo or Clevo rebrand then they apparently hold their own stock. And Sager receives theirs direct from Clevo with LCD. It sounds like the only quality check comes from Clevo.

 

Sager is quality checking. They are getting barebone units from clevo and then they custom configure, burn in and test the laptops. If you order a pixel warranty they pay special attention that you get a defect free LCD. Otherwise they probably only look at the screen for some other standard defect spec which probably allows for 3-6 pixels to be defective outside of the normal viewing grid. Im a sure a reseller could chime in on what that is.

 

Looking for a previous Sager owners opinion. Is it worth doing the additional warranty on these machines? They currently come with 3 Year Labor 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime but is it worth it to upgrade to the 2 year or 3 year parts for the additional $$?

 

Only you can decide if it’s worth the extra money to protect your investment. Right now (XoticPC as an example) has an additional year for $79 (for a total of 2 years) and two years for $149 (for a total of 3 years).

I think at least one additional year is good.

The additional warranty really is just an insurance policy in case of failure; chances are small that you will ever need it. While we don’t have any real statistics on Sager reliability, I would bet it’s as good as any of the major leading brands. You don’t hear of a lot of people having failure, the one’s you do hear were overclocking and generally stressing the system much higher than normal usage would.

 

Thanks othonda, normally I wouldn't bother with the additional warranty but the fact that these are all first generation and untested makes me think the additional year wouldn't be a bad idea.

Any other thoughts from the community?

 

An extra year isn't a bad idea especially for an expensive higher end notebook, and the fact that it's only $79 is a decent price. I'm contemplating adding an extra year myself. I just wish the accidental protection covered more than just the LCD. And a SquareTrade warranty for this machine costs $500 with accidental and you only have the option for 3 years.

 

My biggest problem with the $100 zero dead pixel option on Sager notebooks is that since people are paying to get the cream of the crop so to speak...

If you don't pay the $100 premium then your MORE likely to get a screen with bad pixels... think about it... if a screen meets the base guidelines for dead pixels but has less than 5 not in the center it will get set aside when building someones notebook that paid the $100. But the next poor guy that buys a notebook without the premium is likely to get the left over bad ones.

They meet the companies dead pixel policy so they wont send them back to clevo, they will just pass them on to the customer and see if they get returned.

 

I thought of that too. What else would they do? They can't send it back to Sager if it's under a certain amount.

 

Unfortunately such is life.

One way or another we will all pay for it if we raise enough stink. If Clevo starts a screening process that weeds out all displays with even one dead Pixel, they would have to charge more for the laptops (again the manufacture of the LCD has a spec, so Clevo would eat the displays that have any dead pixels) If sager decides to do the screening the same thing would happen. It’s a ripple effect.

It’s really a double edge sword, as some people will not like paying more for a laptop that has a zero defect screen, when they could live with a few bad pixels. Versus the people who would be glad to pay more to know they will get a zero defect display.

 

I agree but the way it is now im discouraged from buying a sager notebook from anywhere that offers the zero dead pixel option for added cost as if I dont pay the added cost it makes it MUCH MORE LIKELY ill get one with bad pixels than if I buy from a company without such a policy.

In other words, if there isnt an option for zero dead pixels everyone has a low chance of getting one but wth the option in place it makes it more likely those that dont pay will get one because the company will always have a stock of notebooks with dead pixels on hand that they need to sell so they will push them out to those who dont pay extra.

This little tidbit actually pushes me back toward Asus as they have zero bright dot guarantees on their notebooks by default and have a year of accidental damage coverage thrown in for good measure.

 

I think the real issue as pointed-out by other forum members is that you have the 30 day return for any reason policy which is the same timeframe as the dead pixel guarantee.

I am hoping that one of the vendors can explain how buying the dead pixel guarantee provides less hassle than return, refund and reorder 30 day return policy.

 

Call and talk to one. It's better than trying to describe in a forum

 

Maybe you don't have to wait for a refund? And I do remember them saying shipping would be on them. Again this is pure speculation as I am not quite 100% sure on that. Like the guy above me said you might as well call and ask as you'll get a better answer from them then you would from us

 

The way I understand it, without the dead pixel guarantee you'll have to wait for your refund, pay for return shipping, and re-order a new unit altogether.

With the guarantee they apparently test the LCD or have a bed of tested LCD's that they install in the machine with known 100% live pixels. They also pay for shipping both directions and I don't think any other money has to exchange hands. It's unclear whether they cross ship though. That would be a nice feature for them to ship you a new machine, you just pop the old one in the box and return it. But I haven't heard one way or another and it doesn't say in the guarantee terms.

Here's excerpts from XoticPC's terms:

http://www.xoticpc.com/xotic-dead-pixel-guarantee-a-8.html

By default under our Standard Dead Pixel Policy, XOTIC PC guarantees that the screen will have no more than 3 dead pixels (Xotic PC Force Series Laptops) or 5 dead pixels (Sager Branded Models) total on the screen and none in the center area.

Selecting our “0 Dead Pixel Insurance” option on any Sager Branded Laptop will Guarantee that ANY dead pixels will be treated by Sager as a DOA unit, and Sager will cover 3 day shipping both ways and replace the unit. (Continental USA only). This guarantee is for the first thirty (30) days of receipt of the unit, and not the entire year period of the general warranty.

I'm assuming same is for other resellers. And "center area" is pretty vague. I'm hoping they are a little lenient in that interpretation.

 

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That's what I read earlier and what I was looking for. I'll have to check the other resellers as well...Honestly, I can live with some dead/stuck pixels so I probably won't opt for it, but it doesn't "feel good" buying a spanking new laptop and having a blemish from the start...Like buying a new car and right away, your door doesn't close perfectly or the window leaks and you have to take it back.

I thought the resellers actually powered on your machine for burn in and general testing so looking at the screen doesn't sound like "that" much more work. Since prices are pretty much the same between resellers, this would be a nice way to differentiate between them. As in Japan, prices are the same for some product categories everywhere (required by some law), they compete on service only.

 

You guys have to remember, these people are running a business. Since these laptops come (in a roundabout way) directly from Sager, they're selling hundreds, if not thousands of laptops per day. Paying someone to examine screens all day just is not cost-effective. Not to mention the stress it would put on that person's eyes (searching for a tiny spec of black?). And as for all the car-references, its not like a "no crack windshield" gaurantee, it would be like a dealership offering a "no paint blemish" option. A dead pixel is an exceedingly rare thing (dont you think there would be more posts about them if they were not?), and it makes sense for an option to be offered for those of us wiling to pay for a "perfect" computer.

And to the OP, pick whichever company you feel most comfortable with. Im going to go with Xotic, mainly because their website looks professional.

 

From my understanding Sager sells 2 or 3 thousand per month.

 

Still, 2,000 comps divided by 30 days gives about 67 laptops per day. Lets assume a 1-min start-up and a 5-minute inspection, 11mins x 67 gives 350 minutes a day only examining screens. A 30 min on/30 min off cycle for straining and menial work means 2 full time workers only inspecting laptops. Just doesnt make sense.

 

Vanaru
When you say “doesn’t make sense” are you implying to inspect or not to inspect? I ran the figures and the cost to employ two workers at $10 an hour (for california that is a low wage) would cost Sager about $3400 a month in raw wages, the actual cost is more like 5 or 6 thousand with all the other costs associated with employing someone. So it would take away $2 from every laptop’s profit to do the inspection. Now you would have to get the cost of the display, plus the labor to swap it out and retest (with the labor to swap out requiring a more skilled employee, thus getting a higher hourly wage). Since you don’t know how many displays are actually affected, you would need an overage to spread the cost of the displays over your total line up. My guess is at least $100 per laptop sounds like a reasonable number to charge to ensure good displays.

 

I went with Malibal. I've purchased from Xoticpc before and they were fine, but good lord their website looks like crap. It's looks like something running off the starter package of Geocities..........in 1998.

 

Im saying it doesn't make sense for Sager to Employ two full-time workers, but its fair for re-sellers to charge the extra $100 to ensure a perfect laptop.

 

Lol yeah their website does look a little messy.

 

But it makes sense! Malibal's site is just too...flashy? I like websites that give me what I need to know without alot of fluff.

 

Geez, I hope you didn't base your decision just on the website. Do a little more due-diligence.

Agreed! (I thought that's what you were implying) $100 bucks is reasonable as well.

 

Malibal's website has a design to it. Xoticpc's looks like someone is randomly inserting information through a file uploader that came with the hosting of the website. Everything is out of alignment, everything looks jerky, there's no flow or symmetry. It's just ugly.

 

I had an issue with that before, but it shouldn't be like that. I think some setting is messed up in your browser. Once I ccleaner and glary utility cleaned my machine it looked fine again.

 

Interesting. Although I understand where you guys are coming from - the more flashy looking sites are not necessarily better. I mean look at LPC-digital
their site looks like a word document, but many people on the forums seem to back them... or am I missing something?

 

fancy website ≠ quality customer support or a better product

However as long as the site is easy to navigate and gets you what you need is what's most important. IMHO simplicity is best. I can't stand flash sites. Unnecessary.

 

i agree. if a manufacture was to DOA every LCD with a dead pixel, it would make your cost skyrocket. it doesn't matter if it was sager/clevo, asus, dell, hp, sony or apple. manufactures would end in the red if that was the case. so they build tolerances. did your tv have a dead pixel policy? Or do you just assume that they took meticulous care not to have any? how about your sony PSP? they are notorious for dead pixels. But no free or pay warranty there either.


if paying 60 dollars means that they help to ensure that I don't have any or even if the top right coner one is dead, and I'll never notice, but i can change out anyway.... it's totally worth it. try and get most manufactures to change out a single pixel that is out of center view for free, and shipped at their cost...

 

I've done Business with LPC-Digital and I can vouch for their impeccable customer service.

 

Are there any differences between Sager resellers and Clevo resellers?

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/549184-looking-site-buy-p170hm-8170-a.html#post7080715

Which vendors are Clevo resellers?

 

RJtech is clevo, they offer barebones systems or fully configured.

The Sager resellers do not offer Sager in barebone configurations.

All the others are Sager as far as I know. Malibal and mythlogic I am unsure of.

 

well it looks like you don't have an option for the zero dead pixel warranty on malibal's configurations.

I'm not sure if that is supposed to make you feel better or not as their standard warranty clearly states up to six pixels may be a combination of dead, or hot colored pixels.

i'm curious why...

 

I believe if you call them you can request a zero dead pixel warranty for a fee.

 

See post #37.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sag...pc-vs-malibal-sager-8130-a-4.html#post7077373

 

There might be an issue with the Zero dead pixel warranty policy:

If this policy involves a pre-screening of the laptops depending on their number of dead pixels, that means that if you do not buy the warranty you may experience a higher probability of getting a dead pixel because the perfect ones are being selected and retained for the customers opting for the warranty, which is a biased policy against the customers that do not buy it.

There is also the myth that even if you have a dead/stuck pixel you may "fix" it with certain techniques covered on these forums.

However, if the reseller screens and tries to do the same fix before shipping these laptops to the customers, that means that each customer getting a dead/stuck pixel may have it permanently.

 

We are clevo resellers, we can do barebones or fully configured.

 

heh I bought a Malibal laptop and didn't see the zero dead policy. I guess I assumed Malibal pre-screened then for zero dead pixels because these are top notch laptops. I paid 3,509 USD for a laptop and if I had even a single dead pixel I'd return it. Not sure if you guys have ever seen a dead pixel in a screen, but it's very obvious and distracting. I doubt I'll get a dead pixel though. *crosses fingers*

 

Right. I'll admit stuck pixels are more obvious, but dead pixels aren't really that hard to notice either. All you have to do is run a full white and few light shades of gray on your screen and it should stand out.

 

Can a reseller tell me if that is the case? I'm under the assumption it's just a roll of a die, but if prescreening is actually happening and perfect screens are set aside, I might as well put up the $100.

 

i've been saying this the whole time... the dead pixel warranty is an amazing thing that other manufactures don't offer. and if it means they take more care to ensure it.... here's my 100 dollars.

 

What mmarchid is trying to say is that if panels are screened and pulled aside for those that pay the $100 then it increases the chances of those that don't pay the $100 to get one with dead pixels. All depends on the number of people that buy the warranty. If this is the case then it irks me a little because that means they probably put monitors known to have dead pixels back in the queue to be built.

But yes, add me as another request for resellers to confirm what the $100 actually buys you. Is it pre-screened displays for dead pixels or is it just 30 days no dead pixels?

Sager's no dead pixel policy states:

Any units purchased with the “Zero Dead Pixel Insurance” option that are received with ANY dead pixels will be treated by Sager as a DOA unit, and Sager will cover 3 day shipping both ways and replace the unit. (Continental USA only). This guarantee is only for the
first thirty (30) days of receipt of the unit, and not the entire year period of the general warranty.

Which sounds like basically they will cover round trip shipping if your unit has a dead pixel. It says nothing about pre-screened panels. It also mentions nothing about advanced replacement (i.e. they ship you new laptop before you have to ship back the original). That would be worth the $100 even if not for dead pixels. But until I get confirmation from Sager or a Sager reseller, as it's stated it's not a worthy investment for me considering the 30 day return policy.

 

With your configuration you should bump up to an S1, which gets the dead pixel warranty at $60. When I ordered mine back in March, I bought the warranty and it was implied they check the display to ensure its good when it goes out, and of course mine was perfect when I received it.

Because Sager sells 2-3 thousand a month I don’t really think it increases the chance of a bad display by that much (no way of really knowing) but if they had a real problem with this we would hear about in the forums, and we don’t. There is the occasional poster that said they got a few pixels that are bad but that’s about it.

 

The way I see it is that if you buy the dead pixel warranty and you find a dead pixel they will exchange the laptop with a new one and declare the old one as DOA.

If you don't buy the warranty and you find a dead pixel, it has to be within the guidelines set by the standard warranty in order for you to be entitled to an exchange or a fix.

The following is from HP and shows how the dead pixels are usually handled without the dead pixel warranty

As you can see without the dead pixel warranty you must be within HP/DELL/SAGER/ANY guidelines to be entitled a replacement. For WUXGA if you have 6 dead pixels and no pixels that are 25/15mm from each other you stuck with a laptop with dead pixels.

 

However, you have 30 days to return the laptop for any reason and to request a refund. Then you can reorder another machine.

 

They removed ram and hdd for me, and won't do that for the S1.

Exactly. But like I said if they offered a cross shipment it might be worth it to not have to wait for another machine.

 

Just to clear up something on the idea of the warranty increasing the dead pixel chance for the non-warranty people... REMEMBER, these laptops are coming from Sager and the warranty is from the reseller. Sager sends what they send. There's no "extra" check going on; so you get what you get regaurdless of purchasing the warranty. The DP warranty is 100% just about convenience and time as the standard warranty shipping costs the same as the DP warranty. Hope that helps ease some people.

Also, on a fun related note, if anyone wants to see a single pixel here is one black pixel below you can save and play with:



---> <---


And if you're having a hard time right-clicking on it: http://mysite.verizon.net/enigma.v8/pixel.gif

 

Sager receives the base machines from Clevo. Sager builds up the machines with CPU, GPU, RAM, etc according to orders FROM THE RESELLERS and are shipped direct to the customers. They never touch the resellers hands. That being said, it does stand to reason that Sager just ships units without any initial check, they just offer the 30 day no dead pixel warranty to avoid hassle apparently. I dunno.

I don't know why all the resellers have been mum to post here to clarify. I'd like to know:

1. Do they offer cross-shipment as in allow for ordering of a new laptop and shipped to you before you have to ship back the original.
2. Are they pre-screened or just shipped like everything else.
3. How does it differ from the regular 30 day satisfaction money back guarantee other than user pays return shipping?

 

Ok So here is how this works directly from Sager/Clevo we asked our rep and these are the responses we got:

1) Do they offer cross-shipment as in allow for ordering of a new laptop and shipped to you before you have to ship back the original.

For 30 days no dead pixel guarantee, we do not have a case of that happening so far where we got a return under the guarantee; if it happens, we will do cross ship and ask credit card for security deposit; or issue return mailing label for exchange, we pay both way shipping

2) Are they pre-screened or just shipped like everything else.

We will spend at least 4 technicians to check the LCD panel with different back ground before ship to make sure this panel is perfect condition.

3) How does it differ from the regular 30 day satisfaction money back guarantee other than user pays return shipping?

30 days money back guarantee does not cover shipping return to us and we do not refund the original purchase shipping charge

Hope that helps!

 

Thanks for the clarification, that matches up with what my reseller said and what I have been saying in regards to screening them to ensure they are perfect when they leave Sager.