**OFFICIAL W860CU/NP8690 Owners Lounge**

actually the cooler is pretty good rat, I use one and it definately helps. With the M860 (nexus) it was a god send because the metal case heated up alot.

 

I know the cooler is good, and I needed to use one with the previous notebook (XPS M1330) .

I'm only saying that this notebook is cooled very good by itself and doesn't need more cooling support!!! Moreover the Kobalt guys assembled it very good

 

Congrats Mongerman... You'll love it! It's by the far most solid, well-built computer I've ever owned. And my first PC was in 1986, so I've been through a few of them!

The battery life is comedic. Definitely test it out one day if you need a laugh.

 

I bought the ZM-NC2000 and ended up giving it to my Mom for her Dell. I ran OCCT GPU/CPU and only noticed a 2*C drop with the cooler on high vs the living room table. My advice is to skip it, save yourself some money.

 

Then why does the W870CU, which is near identical in design, not have the sticker over the CPU fan? The reason why is to allow more thermal leeway for the manual 4x bin overclock for users that wish to buy the notebook with the 920XM. However, the 820QM and 720QM do not run as hot as the overclocked 920XM. So should Clevo put the sticker on the W870CU's CPU fan intake too? No because that would only hinder the performance of the CPU fan and divert CFM through parts of the motherboard, including the RAM, which do not need cooling whatsoever.

I believe the reason why Clevo put that EMI sticker over the main intake is to again loiter users towards the W870CU to balance the market sales between the two systems. The average Joe will see that the W870CU gets better CPU temps compared to the W860CU in professional and user reviews where the sticker has not been removed and will be drawn towards it. However, this is just my take on it. My logically supported speculation is just as good as anyone else's.

Regardless, it doesn't matter if the temperatures are not near the red zone. The fact still stands that the CPU is getting better temps, which everyone wants, without the sticker. The MOSFET's and capacitors as well as the RAM do not need cooling. Even with the CPU sticker off, there will still be some CFM flowing in through the secondary intakes over the CPU and GPU. Hell, the M980NU is a beastlier machine and the RAM in that notebook has less exposure to airflow than the W860CU and W870CU. In fact, the RAM in the M980NU has almost no active cooling since all three fans are on the other side of the motherboard. The same goes with my D400V and M38AW. The memory is near completely isolated from the turbines and they have been running as smooth as butter for years both at stock and from a system-wide FSB overclock. The same can be said about the Alienware M17x. The same can be said about every notebook on the market. The memory on the W8x0CU is already being babied since they actually have passive vents above them.

I have already covered this before. http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5518576&postcount=1015

 

"Too hot to touch" isn't enough to convince most knowledgeable users to keep the sticker on. There is no solid quantitative data so far that suggests that the memory is too hot on the W860CU. Unless someone has a temp gun and the W8x0CU, which I do, and the general rated maximum operating temperature for the memory chips, which I also know, all of this talk from everyone about the motherboard heating up or the RAM prone to overheating is not credible. Though of course, I want to see how all of you would approach this, so I will step back as the third-party and observe. I'm getting too old to spoon feed everything to you guys so I'll leave it up to you all to discover this.

The CPU is one of the more important components on your notebook. If the memory somehow fries, it's easily and affordably replaceable. If the CPU is thermally abused by having it approach or exceed 90*C frequently, then it's a bigger blow to your wallet as it will falter in the long run. Ask any user on [H]ard or OCF. They can share their personal experiences with you. And this applies moreso to modern CPU's as CPU's back in the day never generated as much heat as the ones now.

It's really strange how Clevo has implemented an ACPI defined shutdown temperature for the HDD. I wonder if it is the same for SSD's as they run similarly warm just like HDD's, but just have a higher max operating temp.

 

That is correct. The Tjmax for almost every Intel CPU in modern production is 100*C. Though historically on Clevo notebooks, the ACPI sets the maximum temperature until shutdown or downclock to 95*C. Does it mean that we should not worry about the CPU breaching 90*C but not exceeding 95*C or 100*C? For the sake of versatility we should worry because most users that try to conduct a stress test on the CPU usually do so in a more controlled environment such as at home on a flat table. What is not taken into account are the changing factors that the notebook is operating in. If a user moves to a different location like the mall or in a computer lab, the ambient temperature will have a noticeable effect on overall temps whether it be cooler or warmer. And I as well as many other users have proven this before; especially the users that have Clevo notebooks in the more extreme parts of the world such as the Republic of the Philippines. The temperatures over there have brought the CPU's in Clevo's to their knees. The user may want to use the notebook on his lap or in a classroom where the sun is shining through the windows. The last part to consider, though should be no problem in preventing, is dust accumulation. More dust means more heat insulted in the radiators.

A lot of people in all fields are looking towards the W860CU as a mobile workstation. The versatility and portability of the W860CU makes it ideal for productivity on the road. Engineers, such as myself, that crunch crazy MATLAB arrays, or video editors that want to encode huge chunks of footage on the go, or hardcore gamers that play GTAIV or emulated games will appreciate the power that the mobile i7 provides and will want to do anything to reduce the operating temps of the component for greater stability and reliability. These applications will push the CPU near 100% for the entire duration that they are running, especially mass encoding.

 

Soviet,

You clearly are much better informed than Clevo and and all of their designers and engineers. I bow to your vastly superior knowledge. However my sticker stays on and my temperatures continue to be quite comfortable,thanks.

As for 90c being damaging for the CPU, are Intel being deliberately misleading to boost sales of CPU's?

For example thay suggest the following for Fan Speed with Digital Thermal sensor: Tfan = TjMax -10c, where Tfan is fan at maximum speed. I.e. they only recommend maximum cooling when the core temperature is at 90c.

I have had too many desktop CPU's to remember all of them, overclocked in most cases to the most I could manage with air and water cooling. I have made frequent mistakes, and activated thermal trip many times. I have yet to destroy ANY processor. I have however fried several sticks of RAM.

 

You are correct. You have no reason to remove the sticker because your CPU never exceeds 90*C. It would still be more strenuous on the CPU fan because it is working against internal turbulence, but it's no worry for a user that does not "need" better cooling. But one of the main reasons why most Clevo users buy a Clevo is because they want the best temps coupled with the best performance. This is how the trend has been since the birth of performance notebooks.

Intel states the maximum operating temperature as 100*C because that is the temperature where transistors will fail to transfer enough current at a given voltage and will become self-damaging. Quality control also plays a factor in this so some CPU's may falter at a lower temp. The general consensus is 90*C to safely take into account all of these factors. Some samples may start to wither away beyond certain temps. But I would say 100*C is being too optimistic for Intel. However, this is all in the long run so testing would be costly on time and resources.

Intel's recommendations can go shove it for all I care. The Asus G series notebooks have way wonkier fan thresholds that only kick in around 92-93*C for most of it's users, then ramp back down to a much slower medium speed around 85*C or something. It is up to the notebook ODM to dictate at what temperature to trip the fans up to full speed.

Desktop CPU's differ greatly from notebook CPU's. When you overclock, I am assuming you are cranking the FSB and pushing the vcore once you hit a peak base clock. Understand that you have yet to give me some numbers for your experiences with overclocking CPU's. How hot did your CPU's get when you were stressing them? Did you go for straight bin or just straight up FSB? Was your northbridge properly cooled? I don't know of too many people that have overclocked a desktop CPU beyond 90*C let alone 80*C. CPU's are one of the most reliable components on a system, but they are still susceptible to damage if not cared for. Of course this doesn't apply to you because your temps are rock solid. But for many other notebook users, frequently taxing a CPU to it's thermal danger zone will do it over. I have seen this first hand, especially with earlier mobile AMD chips.

Fried memory is a result of not downclocking the RAM before attempting an FSB overclock, or raising the memory voltage too high. Remember that pushing the FSB means pushing the FSB of everything linked to the northbridge. This is where you would need proper cooling for the memory. Memory can be downclocked in the system BIOS for most capable desktops. But for notebooks, users will have to resort to downclocking the memory with Thaiphoon or another similar application.

 

Can't we just solve this by measuring RAM temps with and without the sticker? Is anyone able to do this and post results?

 

The question you should be asking is whether the RAM will fail over the long term period with or without the sticker. Keep in mind that high temperatures, except for extremely rare cases where the memory is thermally abused from really insane conditions, will not kill off components overnight, or at all for that matter. Most notebook memory is rated for 85-90*C depending on the manufacturer. If any of you felt the core area of a GPU heatsink after taking the GPU to 88*C and immediately shutting it off the notebook, you will scald your finger instantly. I will say it again, notebook memory will not get that hot, or even close to "hot" in regards to their rated max temp. There are more important things you guys should be worried about, like that 55*C shutdown temp for the HDD.

This is the start of this goddamn paranoia. It's all because of Seranis's ill supported, out of the buttcheeks guess to vanfanel's inquiry that this whole fiasco about the sticker came into existence. I will continue to laugh as all of you cower in fear from an issue that never existed in the first place.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5516846&postcount=976
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5518236&postcount=1012

 

Actually the real question I should be asking is, why the hell is Barney sitting on a Unicorn?

 

And I'm one of those guys who live in the Republic of the Philippines, and yeah it's average to have 33-34C ambient temps here but some NBR member also confirmed that during summer they're experiencing at about 37-38C ambient temps in Phoenix, that's just not good

 

I'm trying to put up with the chilly winter here in San Francisco. It's ~16*C in my condo right now and outside is even colder.

 

Great ambient temps during winter. I never felt that in my entire life, lol.

 

Because he's legend... wait for it, and I hope you're not lactose intolerant, because the second part of it is.... dairy.

 

Where exactly is the sticker involved w/heat, if I decided to remove it?

 

The sticker is that glossy black EMI sheet that is covering the CPU fan intake on the backpanel at the bottom of the picture.

 

My reseller has just confirmed that I'll be getting my NP 8690 this week. I'm really hyped. This will be my first high end gaming PC in 5 years!

Before I get my NP890...

1) I'm gonna run the dead pixel test, but I also want to monitor the temperature as well. So, seeing as how I do not have any games, what program should I download to stress test my laptop? Also, how do I bring up that window that monitors the temperature?

 

Just read most people's initial review threads, they have screenshots of the tools used to do all of that.

CPU-Z, GPU-Z, Everest, SpeedFan, 3DMark'06 / Vantage, Furmark, etc.

 

Will do. How do I bring up the CPUID monitor, or is that a download as well?

[edit] Nevermind googled and found it

 

I have a couple questions

1. How hot does it does the 8960 run when gaming. How about when it is on the internet or word procsesser.
2. Are the fans loud when gaming. How about when not gaming. Are there any videos of the noise.
3. are there any video reviews with sound
4. is the 820 worth the extra money.

Thank you very much. Can't wait to buy it.

 

I knew you'd figure it out!

 

Has anyone ever been asked to phone Xotic PC about an order. I got a email from them saying they have to go over some things. I am going to phone them tomorrow morning but am wondering if anyone had the same situation. The reason I am wondering is because they have had some pending info before that was handled through email, but now they want to phone them. It's not that big of a deal though.

Thanks

 

Do you guys think R&J Tech will implement huge discounts on this laptop during Thanksgiving and Black Friday?

 

I don't, but I've been wrong before. That one time.

 

Why so? 10char.

 

Sadly, HUGE discounts are just not available for Clevo based laptops. The margins are so tiny for them to begin with there is just no way to offer huge discounts without selling them below cost.

 

You're welcome.

Nope. Usually RJTech follows suit with whatever the Sager and it's resellers offer. If Sager or it's resellers aren't offering Christmas discounts, then they won't either.

 

WOO!! Phase 2!!! Xotic PC said I should get a tracking number in a couple days.

 

So far this notebook has been great for me. (See specs in sig and benchmark below) However I do have 1 small issue, and seriously, it's the only one I have/found. This notebook is insanely good.

The thing that is bothering me a little bit is the noise comming from the fan(s). Shavenrat is right in his post to say that the fans are 'desktop'-loud. My 'homemade' server comp. is alot more quiet then this machine. And altho the sound comming from the fans is not as crazy as that of 5150Joker, it's still very noticeable and I had expected the machine to be alot more silent.

However, I do notice that the sound comming from the CPU-vent is actualy a tat bit louder then the one comming from the other vent. Yes I am currently leaving the 'sticker' on because, just like Tobe_ornot_Tobe explained in his post, I was also adviced by Kobalt to leave it on for improved cooling of the other components. And since my temps are not out-of the ordinairy, I guess it doesn't hurt to leave it on.

But would there be a noticeable difference in noise when taking the sticker off ? (Because my guess is that, even tho the temps of my CPU are OK, the fans do kick in rather fast when trying to cool it. In fact, the noise when just starting up the notebook is alot more tolerable then under load or even after a few minutes of work)

 

Not only that, but doesn't Sager discourages price wars among resellers/retailers?

 

I will admit the fans are loud at times, but for me it's only under high load, when gaming, etc. If I'm surfing, doing work, etc.. they're pretty quiet. I don't know if I'd call them desktop loud, I have a desktop you can hear through 2 sets of closed doors, but they are decently loud. I guess it's just a trade off for the performance. I game with headphones, so I don't really hear the fans until I'm done gaming and the laptop is cooling down.

Just out of curiosity, how does the fan(s) being loud effect you? Can't sleep with it on? Can't hear the TV over it? Etc.. It doesn't bother me at all, but obviously everyone has a different set up.

 

We look forward to your take on the machine! Would you put your config in your sig for us to see?

 

Well if some one was in a college dorm or have a roommate or something similar you would not want a very loud laptop

 

is the i7-820 processor worth the extra cost or should i go for the 720

 

Ideally yes, but back when I used to dorm my roommates can sleep through gale force winds.

 

This post is spot-on. My i7 based desktop is quieter than the laptop at full load. The fan gets so loud you can easily hear it over the built in speakers at max volume.
I can also say from personal experience that no, removing the sticker will not improve the level of noise.
I have spent the last few days traveling with my notebook and it is a fantastic machine; no problems with cooling, GPU is usually around 80-85 after a few hours at load with CPU hovering at 75-80.
I would easily recommend the NP8690 to anyone who is looking for a performance machine in this form factor.

 

I asked the same question a couple pages back and here are some of the responses I received.

paladin44
The performance of the slightly faster processor (about 10% faster clock speed) will be hard to notice, and won't make your laptop last any longer.

It usually takes about 15-20% faster clock speed to really notice a real world performance difference.

BrandonSi
If you were comparing a 720QM with an 820QM I would bet you would notice a difference for CPU intensive tasks, such as video editing and photoshop work. However, since you're coming from a different CPU/laptop all together, the performance jump to the Core i7 (regardless of 720/820) will probably be enough by itself to make you happy.

I'm upgrading to the 820QM now, simply so I can get a better deal upgrading to the 920XM further down the line. I think the resale market for the 820QM is going to be much better (less 820's for sale, versus plenty of 720's for sale) and thus offset my cost for the 920XM. I don't *need* the 820QM, but for $200 it's worth it to get a year or so usage out of it, and then re-sell it to upgrade to the 920XM when the prices are lower.

I personally just went with the 720QM after reading these responses.

 

You will love the notebook whether you get the 720QM or the 820QM. In the end, you will still have a mobile i7 that is faster than almost every notebook on the market right now. Congrats, Stevenson140.

 

Is it normal to have pixels that show up when the color on the screen is black, and the pixels change colors depending on the angle you look at them almost as if glitter? When the screen is bright, I don't really notice them unless I'm looking for them in which case they are a tad bit darker the color that is showing.

I've counted about fifteen so far mostly within about an inch and half from the sides. Most aren't that noticeable, except one. I don't have any magnifying glasses, but from how much larger it is compared to the others, it is probably several pixels long and wide.

 

I'm gonna take a long shot on this one, but ... It's called dust ... get a rag and clean it off. (And yes, sometimes those little 'buggers' can stick to the screen as well, in which case you just have to rub a bit harder.)

 

Congrats on your new laptop. One of the biggest issues I had with the 8690 was its unusually loud fan but in my case, the notebook was defective. What I'd suggest 8690 owners do is record your fans at idle/load like I did and put it up on youtube to compare. Like you, I found the fans on the 8690 louder than my desktop system and it was irritating.

Even if it hadn't buzzed (the buzzing was alleviated somewhat by pressing down on the palm rest), the fans were still too loud. I think Clevo can easily remedy this through a bios update but you guys would have to let resellers know so they can make the request or do it directly yourselves. Some people don't find it bothersome so it will vary from user to user but I've had 3 gaming laptops recently (5 if you count the Dell XPS 16 and HP DV7) and of them all the 8690 was by far the loudest. On a scale of 1-10 (10 being loudest):

8690: 8/10 idle, 10/10 load like I said, too loud for me.
DV7: 3/10 idle, 6/10 load
SXPS 16: 2/10 idle, 6.5/10 load
AW M15x: 1/10 idle, 5.5/10 load. Yes it's that quiet and it runs every bit as cool as the 8690.
Asus G51/G60 (G60 is currently in my apt): 1/10 idle, 5.8 load (it's barely louder than the M15x).

 

Sounds flaky. When did you get it and who from? Any option to send it back? Good money should not provide crap quality.

(my rig: effing 8760 backordered)

 

I thought it was dust at first as well. I used the cloth that came with it, as well my fingers after that to see if they would move. They are still there even after wiping off the smudge marks from my fingers.

 

I got mine from PC Torque. I have sent an email to them requesting an RMA. Waiting for this one to arrive was hard enough. Now that I have used it a bit and appreciate it even more... Waiting for this to get sent back and get another one is going to be rough.

 

I hear ya -- if mine's a dud I don't have a chance to get another as I'm back in the US for only 2weeks... I'll be stuck with an Asus G51 from the 'egg. It's your money -- be smart as you are

 

Unable to get the latest BIOS revision for this computer from Clevo or Notebookguru...

 

Is there a bios revision?