*** Official Clevo P640RE/Sager NP8640 Owner's Lounge ***

Fair enough. But 'cyclone' gives it the same feel. It becomes a hurricane. And then a super-typhoon.

 

psychedelic as in: it helps you get into higher spheres with its ecstatic (pun intended) performance in a small form factor (pills)

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Eh, no. I don't want to take narcotic pills. They ruin your brain and who knows what else. Not funny, mate.

 

CHUPACABRA

 

No but seriously, I like the Wave. Can we just stick with that!? And hey it's Prema who chose it!

@Prema , Phoenix on surfboard riding a Wave bios logo??

Edit: Because you know, Phoenix regenerating what would happen if it fell of the surfboard?? Oh the thrill!

 

A nice power brick delivery level

 

Oh MY GOD!



Master Control Program. Or That frog from naruto I think...

 

the " tsunami " is beautiful. pls make that a thing guys.

Going to pass on this for the XPS 15. Think with TB3, bigger screen, and nicer battery it will win out.

 

i'd just call it B2 after the stealth bomber.

 

You know the GS40 exists, right?

Edit: It doesn't have the bigger screen or better battery, but it does have TB3.

 

Frankly speaking - Thunderbolt is going to take at least another half-decade to become a ubiquitous as USB is today.

I'd rather Clevo used that cash for thermals research or G-Sync licensing. TB's not a very useful port to have since there aren't many enclosures or drives that support the standard even today, 4 and a half years after its introduction.

 

I do, but the design is too red for me. Do you know if the red accents on the keyboard are from the backlight? Cause if the keys are white without the backlight I just might buy it. Price and weight is stellar though - at 1.8kg with 970m. I still might go with the XPS anyway because of its bigger screen - will wait till reviews come out anyway.

 

TB3 docks, displays and eGPU solution are few months away. At the very least, they could have added usb-c.
not to mention, Competitors have them already.

hopefully there is a revision in the works for near future

 

As I said - Thunderbolt has been around for 4 and a half years now. Literally the only Thunderbolt display we have now is from Apple. Only Pegasus has made enclosures for disk drives, and thumb-drive type storage is still dominated by USB.

As for eGPUs, I'm not very convinced by their utility - plug in a huge power-hungry box into your laptop for gaming? That sounds a lot like what Apple is doing - remove all functionality from inside the laptop and relegate them to tens of external accessories that clutter up working space.

I'm not sure what makes you think they're 'a few months away' if the standard has been around for nearly half a decade now, but nearly no one has taken notice of it, not yet, at least.

I'll accept Thunderbolt as being truly mainstream when I can buy a 16 GB Thunderbolt pen-drive for less than $20.

 

The ports are becoming more common now it's not really expensive to include it in the design, but these things will take a bit of time.

 

How about 32GB for $37 ?
http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Type-C-Smartphones-Tablets-SDDDC-032G-G46/dp/B00V62XBY8
Its not just a pendrive thing.
usb-c has display, power, and data over a single cable. like it or not its the future - starting now. Most mobile phones coming out now are usb-c

If one's getting $1300 laptop that's going to be around for 3 years. its better to get one with TB3 simply because GPU in years time would be pascal / AMD 400 Series that will be exponentially faster and you have a an option of using them.

Think ondemand portable desktop gpu power. why wouldnt anyone want that ?

 

That's not TB3 though It will be nice to have the port, but I don't think it's a make or break kind of deal.

 

Well said, this pretty much sums things up for the naysayers, but I'm sure blinders will continue to be kept on for whatever reasons they can convince themselves of.

On a side note, I have a desktop that's getting long in the tooth, but perhaps I'll wait another few months and give Clevo a chance to correct this mistake with a revision equipped with the USB type-c/TB3 combo port.

 

Hmm yeah interesting! Is almost like you can plug the device into a phone or pc with a USB-C connector.. And then plug it into a regular USB-A module..!?



Must be a little sad for that poor USB-A Male connector to not get any action....

I mean.. Maybe over compensating a little with that tattoo there, but we all do our choices tho..

 

That isn't Thunderbolt, as @Meaker said. I was talking about Thunderbolt, not USB-C. I always knew that adoption of the latter would always be fast, given that it's the de-facto standard for external ports. I even expect that Apple will soon ditch its pointless Lightning port for USB-C, just due to sheer competitive pressure to switch over.

A box weighing 3+ kg isn't very portable. Might as well buy a desktop. And no, some do not want it because, as I say, it looks extremely cluttered to relegate everything externally. I'd rather one big 2008 Mac Pro under my desk quietly humming away, rather than the tiny 2013 cylinder on my desk, connected to tens of external drives and devices all over.

TB3 is a potent technology, but I'd rather companies devote research time and money to improving the 802.3 Ethernet standard (we already have 400 Gbps, bringing it up to 1 Tbps would be good), the 802.11 WiFi standard, as well as internal ports and processors. SATA Express and DDR4 are such products.

@Megacharge may think I'm a 'naysayer' with 'blinders' over my eyes, but I say it like it is. The Thunderbolt standard has been out for a while now. It's market penetration is negligible. It's going to stay that way for a while more.

You guys might've heard of IEEE 1394, also called FireWire. It was the Thunderbolt of 2007-8 - and then it just disappeared. Thunderbolt (especially v3) has a significant advantage, by taking advantage of the USB port standard. And yet it'll take quite a while, by which time we'd probably have Cannonlake and Volta.

 

right, so then taiphoons and tsunamis are better / preferred, destroying people's lifes and existences? cmon dude, its about naming the machine here, not about taking drugs taking your cue i would have to smack everyone around here using any kind of metaphores, that aint gonna work

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Prema called it first, Prema gave pictures of sides and exhaust, PREMA no just kidding. But yeah he called it first lol

@Prema Could you please upload those pictures on this thread too? Woul have been nice to have them here, and I can't open the pictures to see them full screen

 

Anyone looking for more pics/info, Metabox have (one) up that I can see:
http://metabox.com.au/store/gaming-laptops

Site is somewhat broken atm (suspect I've caught them half-way through renovating their store page), but looks great! Very batman-like.

Hyperbook seem to have updated their original listing with pics as well (more).

 

Nice. But I'm not too fond of the lid either, prefer standard flat lid.

Curious about the "Microsoft Hybrid Graphics" from that multicom description:
Microsoft Hybrid Graphics - saves battery
video card automatically switches between the Intel HD Graphics and GeForce GTX 970m needed. The advantage is reduced power consumption extends battery life and reduced heat and less noise.

Does that require Windows 10? Will this allow for G-sync?

Also, battery life is a bit disappointing. Hoping that is just a guess and not really indiciative of actual battery life.

EDIT: Ahh, of course Prema to the rescue, I saw his post on TechInferno. 45WHr battery, what are they thinking!? I know a 62WHr would take up a bit more room and weight, but these smaller and lighter laptops are what people want to take on the go.

Also, still curious about the Microsoft Hybrid Graphics. I know DirectX 12 was allowing for multi-GPU usage and was brand agnostic. But in a way I think it's better to have this than Nvidia specific Optimus, but we will see.

 

Apparently, this was a discoruaged w7 thing.. http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-to-discourage-hybrid-graphics-systems-for-windows-7/

Edit: well..

 

As far as I understood it should be pretty much Optimus.

Those new Clevo models just use that branding for their solution with MUX that allows either Nvidia Optimus (iGPU + dGPU) or Nvidia-dGPU-only, selectable in BIOS (needs rebooting obviously).

I have something like that in my oldie Thinkpad W520 where you can run either: iGPU, dGPU, Optimus (selectable in BIOS).

Note that this is different from more common solutions which allow: 1) Optimus or iGPU-only (most Optimus notebooks), or 2) dGPU-only or iGPU-only (MSI GT72, Asus G751).

-----------------

Then DX12 multi-adapter thing is another layer above that. If you have both dGPU and iGPU active, if your application is written to use multiple GPUs, then it should be able to benefit.

Not sure though how well it would work for Intel + Nvidia. So far I have seen just DX12 tests for AMD + Nvidia (curiously it seemed to make a big difference whether it was AMD + Nvidia or Nvidia + AMD).

-----------------

For G-Sync, as far as I'm aware it works only when running in dGPU-only mode. But a good question is how G-Sync will play with DX12 multi-adapter feature.

In theory, as those new Clevo models have screen connected to dGPU, if iGPU is enabled it should be able to be used as "coprocessor" and not mess with G-Sync.

 

Microsoft hybrid craphics.. Well it probably has something to do with Xbox then? Within three years, all will lean towards Microsoft, Intel, Nvidia and "Xbox" teaming up with some virtue combined i/d/gpu powersaving game-streaming stuff.

And on the other hand we will have a comeback from AMD because of HBM2/3 partnering up with Linux/Steam and maybe Sony. Striving to make use of their new 128bit Cpu's on a brand new socket on the brand new hybrid NANO-itx etc boards.. and not making it work great before Intel improves the register on it.. (Probably a UEFI thing)

And hopefully a GPU socket to from AMD..

Would be nice with something that could fit inside a Xbone/ps4 size watercooled chassis, And HDtv's getting freesync!

 

prema would surely find a way to enable a "igpu" only mode in bios, thus saving even more energy and prolonging the battery life

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MSHYBRID is just the internal name for Optimus.

As far as saving battery life, AFAIK disabling the NV chip in BIOS does almost nothing as far as current draw (in an Optimus system, other non-Optimus implies some sort of MUX anyway). Either way the NV GPU sits in it's low power state which is <1W which doesn't make much of a difference in the long run. Most of the power budget disappears into the screen, CPU and PCH.

 

That would have been great if possible! LIke HTWingnut said, I agree that the 45wh is to little.. What is Clevo aiming for, same battery runtime on every laptop??

Ok! I have no idea at all how optimus works, I found it releaving to not have on the Zm because I don't like things I can't turn off.. And was just speculating my wishes out loud lol, a little tired of the speculating game, and i really want a GPU chip for home theatre Tried a "mini" 970 to build a PC-console (wanting that damn elite controller) this summer.. but still looked like a box of macaroni imo lol Either Fullthower ATX, laptop or both!

 

I'm confused, now. Is this laptop Optimus-ed, or MUXed? Or, somehow, both?

 

Go look in the mirror, light 4 candles, and repeat Prema Prema Prema, HE might show up! haha Don't! Say Candyman!!!

I think we have to wait and see tho..

 

The quick and dirty of Optimus. Nvidia GPU -> Intel iGPU frame-buffer -> Output (screen). Basically the NV GPU doesn't actually connect to a screen at all and is simply called upon to render 3D stuff "through" the Intel GPU. Thus, when it's not being used, it's off and basically running Intel GPU only.

 

It's Optimus, no mention of the dGPU mode.

The P650RE/RG got a MUX chip so it can switch between Optimus/MSHYBRID and dedicated GPU mode solely to get G-Sync working (G-Sync requires the NV gpu connected to the screen).

EDIT: Prema's post over on TechInferno seems to imply the P640RE may get a MUX chip. No idea why though. Outside some minor compatibility benefits from being able to run dGPU only, I wouldn't think it'd be worth the cost.

UNLESS, they intend on dropping a G-Sync panel in the P640RE at some point.....

 

yup, im guessing theyre working on licensing 14inch gsync panels dgpu mode is nice to be able and overclock the display refresh rate

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MSHYBRID ≠ OPTIMUS

I guess they simply re-use the P6xxRs base design, re-designing for only a single model would be more costly...but just double checked its minus the MUX, so no direct dGPU mode on the "WAVE".

 

Damn. That means definitely no G-Sync. What exactly is MSHYBRID in the first place?

 

That's what I was asking. But from what I can gather it likely requires DirectX 12 which means Windows 10.

 

MSHYBRID is in essence Optimus. Nvidia stopped officially calling it Optimus two generations ago, but you can for simplicity's sake say that they are the same thing.

G-Sync is only possible with a direct connection from dGPU to the display, which Optimus and MSHYBRID rule out as they channel through the iGPU.

 

Adding it in would make the PCB more complicated and bump up the cost in quite a price sensitive market.

 

Have anything to back up that statement? I've never heard it called MS Hybrid technology. How can it be called Microsoft Hybrid when it's a Nvidia technology? Microsoft Hybrid would indicate it's a hardware agnostic driver and provided by Microsoft. It is very likely part of DirectX 12 and part of the Multi-GPU driver package that has been showing AMD and Nvidia cards working together, so likely why not Intel and Nvidia?

Nvidia still calls it Optimus on their website: http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology

 

MSHybrid and Optimus are pretty much the same, in that Optimus is the name of the tech and MSHybrid seems to be the name of whatever Microsoft/NVIDIA had to implement in the Windows Kernel to make it happen (some module/driver etc). You can see references to it around Nvidia forums and patch notes as the same thing as well as in the Optimus whitepaper (as requiring an OS module).

As an example, in Linux there's actually multiple ways Optimus has been implemented. Currently the 2 big modules are PRIME and Bumblebee (obvious plays on the Transformers/Optimus reference). If Linux were a significant platform, then the spec sheet could very well read "Bumblebee support". Optimus is available in the NV chip, but still requires a module in the OS to actually function, a module which may be named anything internally. From the reading I've done, it's also possible that laptops with AMD Dynamic Switchable graphics make use of the same MSHybrid module now. PRIME also functions for AMD Dynamic Switchable mode (AMD Optimus equivalent) which would imply the technologies are extremely similar.
Have a read of the Bumblee page on the Arch wiki (despite being Linux, it sheds light on a lot of what's going on under the hood since it's a giant reverse-engineering project):
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Bumblebee

All that being said, the DX12/Multi-GPU functionality may have grown out of Optimus. Optimus (despite many misconceptions) doesn't route physical outputs from the dGPU. It's done entirely within the PCIE bus (which is where the slight performance penalty can be found, assuming you tax the bus hard enough). It's entirely possible that goal going forward is to try and standardise it in some way and possibly even apply it to Desktop hardware under the MSHYBRID name. But at the moment it seems that it's just Clevo referring to Optimus.[/QUOTE]

 

@Stooj - basically correct

On the delay part, it's the copy engine that causes the delay, but in reality (and we calculated this out) the delay is tiny compared to the refresh rate of the display.

I don't have physical proof that I can share in public, but It's IT industry standard nomenclature. Notice that neither of the previous two generation laptop models i.e. SM-A or ZM, nor the DM have an Nvidia Optimus Sticker on the chassis? It's because the word "Optimus" stopped being used in the same way. In our internal marketing or product management meetings for example, people still say "Optimus" and we all know what they mean - but officially it is not called "Optimus" any more.

I'm just the messenger in this case, I'll leave it to Nvidia and Microsoft to explain why the nomenclature changed;-)

On the P640 as a little extra info, one of the mDP is routed directly to the dGPU, like in its 15" and 17" siblings!

P.S. the BIOS MUX switch menu in the P6xxRx models is "dGPU" OR "MSHYBRID".

 

I'll take your word for it. Just odd that it comes up out of nowhere. Despite it being Microsoft I was actually excited that we may have had a better switching graphics option. But adding a mux is a great welcome for Clevo laptops.

 

well, naturally, there was no optimus sticker on the ZM and DM series cuz they lack switchable graphics, but i know what u were getting at

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@jaybee83 Yup of course, massive typo on my part there

 

Any shots of internals? I can't wait to see this machine.

EDIT: sounds like Aftershock is going to announce the P640RE. Maybe not, but this the only new, so-called 'un-announced' Clevo product so far, isn't it?

EDIT 2: apparently not the P640RE. What's the Clevo model of this laptop, anyway?

 

Hey Guys, good to see clevo jumping in the 14" gaming notebook market my clevo w230st feeling alittle small of late , i was considering the MSI GS40 Phantom before i stumbled upon this thread, have any of you seen that notebook if so what are your thoughts on these are as a comparison , price wise i don't think there is going be to much of difference so what would you recommend, thanks in advance

 

hmmm....looks like a marriage between the ZM/DM outer design and the innards of the P6 series... too weak in performance for us enthusiast folks though! first thing i noticed was like: ummmm....way too thin! cant be good!

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Plenty of power for 1080p 60hz gaming, if high mobility is a requirement it will suit an enthusiast just fine.