*** Official Clevo P870DM/Sager NP9870-G Owner's Lounge - Phoenix has arisen! ***

Yup, if anyone needs it:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/p870dm-4k-auo-display-scaling.786769/

 

It's been like pulling teeth dealing with Eurocom since I bought the laptop. Sales team are great but service team completely uninterested in helping - no response to support tickets, not following through with emailing the system BIOS when they said they would, and this is the second time I've been told that they can't provide unlocked BIOS / vBIOS.

I've just spoken to someone in the service department but they were either unable or unauthorized to help me (following up with someone else tomorrow though, so fingers crossed whoever that is will help). Unfortunately I can't find any documentation that explicitly states that the X9E comes with unlocked vBIOS so I may not have a leg to stand on if they decide they won't provide and warranty it.

 

Check your PM.

 

I do not like 4K on 17 inches either, at all, only reason I did it is because I NEED the wide gamut screen and seems to be the only thing I can get for it that is also real 8 bits and not 6 bits plus dithering. Even though is not a wonderful screen it is quite good if you can live with the defects it have, which most people won't notice.

Scaling looks perfectly fine for me at 200%. But I have an almost perfect vision at close range, and the pixel density of a 4K monitor is absurd and way over what most people can distinguish. Adobe CC 2015 works perfectly fine with this 4K screen. But some things are a pain, like ruler guides, paths, and amything that is usually a single pixel, it is still a single freaking pixel!!!!!!

 

Yes, I totally agree with you and 200% looks good in terms of quality to me also. It looks very similar to an ultra high quality 1080p screen, only better due to the pixel density. I dislike using more than 100% because of the loss in usable screen space. As I do not need it for professional color reproduction reasons as you do, one of the primary benefits for me would be fitting more on my screen at one time. Two good examples in relation to work are using Excel spreadsheets and being able to view more cells without scrolling, and having more than one Word document opened side-by-side without a need for scrolling. If I format documents ideal viewing on 4K, anyone else (or me from another computer) that attempts to view the re-formatted documents in a resolution less than 4K has a horrible mess to deal with before they can start viewing the materials in a pleasant to look at form.

For pleasure purposes, having screen shots for benchmarks with multiple programs open as needed to qualify them for benchmark leaderboards is a nice feature. If I run at 100% scaling the text is too small to look good even when I can read it.

With scaling set to more than 100% you start giving up the advantage of having more screen space because everything is larger. At 200% you have more or less gained nothing over 1080p in terms of additional screen real estate. As scaling increases, idiotic limitations with Windows, especially Windows 8 and even more so with Windows 10, begins to occur. Controlling the size of some objects is not possible. Windows 7 gives far greater control over UI customization. Text in dialogue boxes and balloon notifications becomes truncated and text in menus is abended because Windows does not resize things correctly.

 

Is anyone able to at least try to install bluestacks and tell me if it freezes for them? I can't find anyone else who owns this model and I've asked a reseller, but I doubt they'd have that information

 

Yeah mate I should be able to give it a go tonight.

 

Thank you, looking forward to results.

Both blustacks v1 (0.10.xxxx or earlier) and v2.0 (newest on site) have the same symptom, so it's something to do with a piece of hardware not wanting to make it work.

Also, I found I can't shutdown without disabling the fast startup for some reason, never had that happen, are you or anyone else the same way?

 

if you are overclocking, did you make any changes to the PLL voltage. Messing with that could make this happen.

The first thing I do when I install Windows is disable Fast Startup as it only delays my shutdown and creates extra unwanted writes to the SSD. SSDs are super fast anyway that makes this Fast Startup just a gimmick.

Additionally, when I shutdown, I want a full shutdown not some crippled hybrid shut down

I also disable the hibernation file completely to save space

powercfg -h off

from an elevated command prompt

 

Does this lappy have a hardware raid controller or is it software? My last one had a hardware controller and I didn't even think about it when I ordered this one, I was under a bit of a time constraint. It comes to mind because I ordered two 850s in raid 0 which ended up being a little cheaper than a single terabyte drive. At the time I was thinking no harm no foul but I wasn't thinking the overhead might end up on the cpu.

 

They claim it's hardware RAID on the Sager site but it's actually software RAID that is implemented through the BIOS, thus, the CPU will handle the RAID operations:

Does the Clevo P870DM-G have hardware or software RAID?

and also this:

Sager has hardware RAID?

 

Thanks for that, it appears I don't have to worry about overhead since I'm not going to be using parity. Now I just have to figure out how to install windows with RAID 0, haven't done that for a few years. Since I'm going to set up the entire thing in one big partition I wont have to worry about the files getting salted between drives. I know I need to have the RAID drivers handy, that's about all I remember. I think when I get rolling it will come back to me, somewhere around here I saw a guide, I think yours. I'll peruse that and a few other resources before the lappy gets here so I should be ok.

 

Very easy

Pre-requistie: Copy the RAID Driver onto your Windows 10 USB Flash disk, found here:
Clevo P870DM/DM-G Drivers Mirror

1) Set your SATA mode to RAID

2) Save and reboot with your Windows 10 Flash Disk inserted and hit F7 to get the boot menu options then choose that USB Flash Disk

3) NBR Windows 10 Clean Installation Guide

4) When you are at the partition wizard screen, it won't see your NVMe SSD(s), hit load driver, then navigate to the RAID folder, and let it do it's thing

5) now proceed with the guide above

6) Once all drivers are installed, open IRST and disable Windows Caching, then set the Performance to Write Back (Maximum performance)

 

Hope everyone is well, I want to ask if there an ETA for a public release of the Prema mod and vbios for the P870DM(G) with 980(Desktop)?

 

So I got the bluestacks issue, hoping someone can address this one:



As you can see, the border around "Today's Quests" is animated, but when I hit alt-tab, it freezes for 0.5s before actually tabbing out. You can see the indicator that G-sync is on. When I turn G-sync off, the alt tab is instant. On my P770ZM-G, it didn't hiccup. Just checking if it's a P870DM-G thing, or my specific laptop thing.

 

@danyune yeah I'm not having much success with BlueStacks either. Just keeps spinning ("Please wait") without really achieving anything while in "Settings" and "One Time Setup" when trying to install an app. It froze at the home (advertising) screen first go too after about 30 seconds.

 

Thank you very much comrade. I suppose it may have something to do with the GPU that is in these laptops. I see you have the same GTX 980 desktop version. I've had a real desktop with a 950 NVMe drive and it worked, so I know it can't be the nvme thing.

It is most likely just the GPU being so new that bluestacks doesn't know how to read it or something

 

Does it do it accross multiple drivers?

 

Bought the 4K AU panel for about 200 Euro from China and the EDP cable for 85 Euro from CEG via eBay. Should arrive in 1-2 weeks. G-sync 4K here I come !

 

Isn't it a bit strange that it is so cheap, considering that the cheapest option to have it installed is around 600$?

 

So far same issue on 362.00, 364.47, and 364.51

*edit* Just to be clear, I did try DDU and the Custom-->Clean Install within the nvidia driver every time I changed

 

wOOT! Exactly the same!
Seems like you bought the second one. (The cable)

btw. there is cheaper option for the panel : http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Orig...splay-3840-2160-4K-IPS-panel/32561241095.html

Mine is getting delivered today (i went for the DHL shipping, shipped Monday and delivering on Thursday), gotta wait for the EDP cable from Germany though, should be here next week as they did not have expedited shipping. And the Aliexpress seller sent me a Paypal invoice, because for some reason my Credit Card wont let me pay. They even shipped it the next day.

 

Well, I see it as an experiment... but there are at the moment 3 sellers from china on eBay asking about 200 Euro for the panel.

 

Not really, its the exact same panel , the re-sellers charge you a **** ton of money for installing it and covering it under warranty etc.

The panel @Akaraah installed in his guide (he got it for around $200) and the one that @victorwol got installed from Eurocom are exactly the same. One cost $200ish + Cable and the other around $700 (Installation+shipping, etc)
Main thing is that its not easy to install one, unless you know what the heck you are doing and have some patience. That is why the re-sellers charge more.

 

Its the same panel.

 

That is one wicked thing to discover.

Though, the replacing of that panel, if you do not have the cable, looks rather complicated, and like I would have tension three days after. If I succeed.

Do not forget to wear that ground bracelet, to avoid static shock, because it can fry some components.

 

Zat iz wai, i aurdred zi kabel ez vell. Frum Deutschland.
I personally love fiddling with electronics. Its complicated for sure, but you just need to follow a few ground rules and everything will be gucci.

 

When I feel lazy or am in a hurry, and I don't want to set up the anti-static station, I imagine something like this, and recall all the lost hardware I have seen people ruin over the years by not taking the time to ground themselves - then I strap in:

Spoiler

 

Here is the things. I invested like $7K on that machine, got the biggest and fastest whatever you can get for it. Eurocom in this case, yes it's making a lot of money, actually charging, we don't know how much profit they have. They have to take the risk of frying your computer and have to replace it, of the panel going bad and have to replace it, the shipping was included on the prices and is not cheap for a box that size, the machine was packed back like new, no scratches, not a single fingerprint, I'm not going to risk burn $7K by saving $500 and not having a warranty or assurance the thing is going to work. Time is money, frustration causes stress, stress cuases my therapist to make more money. I rather pay the extra to get the thing done without risking that much in the process.

 

Yeah yeah, the costs are understandable.

But for a student spending like $700 for something that would cost him around $300, is a rather difficult decision. Dont get me wrong, id have it done from someone, if i had the "leisure" or a backup machine, for the whole week it would be gone.
Its just my opinion. When i try and do it myself, i am assuming all the risk, and my system costed me half of what it costed you. PLUS im rather adventurous and know my way around electronics.
Agreed not everyone has the same knack with things or to be able to find their way around things, im just not one of them.
Overpaying for something that i can do my self? Heck no, i aint spending double the cost for that "guarantee", plus i already get DOA guarantee on whatever parts i buy. Im not much of a warranty person.

This is just my opinion, everyone is different, you wanna have someone else do things for you, sure go ahead. I am more than capable of doing the exact same task (without fingerprints, scratches, etc etc).

Btw. i was just referring to the panel being the same, nothing less nothing more. Im not attacking any re-seller for charging what they do, for the job. I just feel that its over priced, and that is my opinion because i dont really care about warranty. If ABCD company works for you, you DA MAN. Its just not for me.

 

Well it also comes to time really.

Some people that are able to do certain upgrades, will opt to just buy the upgrade directly from the reseller. I used to do everything custom, only buy barebones etc. But if a component breaks that didn't come with it, I'd have to go thru the manufacturer themself to get it replaced, while with a full system from a reseller, they will handle it.

Same goes with the screen as mentioned above. Is it worth paying the ~$350 difference (buying screen + cable + shipping) then doing the install, which I imagine will take about 2 hours if you are adequately proficient, time varies by experience. Then imagine it starts to flicker after a month during a bluray movie, now you have to figure out how to get the screen fixed, or buy a new screen.

Like others have said, there are two sides to the story. I personally would rather get it all from a reseller just so that there is no headache when it comes to having problems fixed

 

Can anyone do this quick typing test for me?

Hold g, then hit u, will it type a g everytime after you hit u? like:

gugugugugugugugugugugug

But if you hold g, then type y, it won't add the g

gyyyyyyy

Now I type about 160wpm, so when I type "guy", it always comes out as gugy. Just checking if I have a defective keyboard or if the controller on the motherboard itself is this way. I've never had this problem with other models

 

Exactly. To each his own.
BTW. The warranty stays valid,unless your component or something you did messed it up, and till you return the system back for RMA the way you got it.

 

Seems to be as you say. I cant do GYGYGYGYGY. Comes out as GYYYYY

 

Ugh man how frustrating, it's like the keyboard is artificially trying to make me type slower. I have SO many errors that I didn't with my ducky shine. o/p and spacebar seem to do the same phenomenon, so typing "duo" ends up as "du o", same with "up" comes out "u p"

 

For some reason with my Blackwidow, i cant do gygygygy unless i let go of the g,
I cant type as fast you can, so this doesn't affect me, but you might wanna check htwingnuts youtube channel, i remember reading something about a repeat rate or some issue.

 

I actually just chatted with Larry earlier on the phone about the problems I've been having, mainly the g-sync one though. He's got the details and is going to relay it to Sager to see what they have seen when it comes to alt-tab and gsync on this model

 

What was the issue with G-Sync?

Has been working great for me, unless im playing The Division, which makes Alt-Tabbing longer than usual. DOTA2 and CSGO Alt-tabbing is fast.
My only gripe is that 75hz is forced on any res less than 1920x1080 even if you have a high refresh rate custom res.

 

I posted that earlier, don't think anyone got to it

 

@Georgel This might answer the question about the panel : http://forum.notebookreview.com/thr...4k-picture-guide.787821/page-15#post-10226951

@danyune That is indeed weird, sorry i missed the post earlier.
Do you think that is because of G-Sync? or the emulation engine?

But, yeah i do face that as well when playing division and i try to alt tab out, i never thought of it as an issue, because alt-tabbing works fine when using windowed or border-less windowed mode. (if G-sync activated only for FullScreen Mode)

 

Try enabling g-sync for windowed, it will still do that. Without g-sync alt tab is instant.

I had a long chat with Larry, telling him exactly what I've done to try to remedy it, all to no avail. He's gone ahead and communicated with Sager as I mentioned, hopefully they can release a new vbios or nvidia driver to fix it.

Should note, he also mentioned that using desktop level GPUs in laptops is very new, and still being fixed up, which makes sense. This is the first laptop that this has happened for (that I know of, receiving a desktop level GPU) so there's bound to be little kinks that someone hasn't extensively tested. I mean who would notice such a hiccup in alt tabbing?! Only someone who has a habit of tabbing out often and plays in windowed mode, like me!

I've also tested the keyboard further, looks like J and U are very weird. If you hold J, then try to hit another key, it won't register anything, so trying to type words like "Jerry" and "Jason" super fast would end up not typing the 2nd letter until the letter J (or U) has completed it's pressing (as in your finger is fully lifted from the key). Normal typers up to I'd say 90wpm wouldn't notice it, but I type quite a bit faster than that, so I notice it very heavily and get a lot of typos in general.

This is not a problem with the keyboard itself, but how the laptop translates the information the keyboard is sending it (Controller?). I had a P770ZM that I was able to type on perfectly fine without ever having errors (same keyboard).

You can test it by holding J, then trying to hit another key (also with U), but holding another key (like D), then pressing other keys, will register the other keys

 

Yep. I'm sure there's a lot of bugs, cooling, and other engineering that will be forthcoming as the laptop manufacturers venture into this Brave New World.

The Desktop GPU in lappy tech is still pretty new - http://www.pcgamer.com/nvidia-is-putting-desktop-caliber-gtx-980-gpus-in-laptops/.

BTW, can you imagine what this means for those SLI lovers - "Nvidia also told us that like with the 980M, there will be SLI configurations of the full-size 980 in laptops, too"

 

Overpaying for something is something very subjective, I charge for an hour of training people no less then $100, no matter what it is, some people would consider that a lot, some not. But you need to know how much I have invested into know what I know and the responses I can give to your answers and how much we can expand the subjects when we are in session. When I travel to teach someone, expect to pay me no less than $1500 a day plus expenses, and when I got a SAN expert to come to my company to help me install the storage charges me $3000 for the visit, usually 2 days of about 6 hours each after we spend 2 hours on joking around. It is worth, hell yeah, he knows more than me and can respond to any possible issue and have a whole company behind him that can send a whole new unit if he burns this one. DOA, never seen one.... Ever... But I just got my wife car needing a $3000 repair and I paid $100 only because the extended warranty I got. Thinks subject to heavy use breaks, sooner or later, they do.

But I totally get your point, if I was not a person that easily get panic attacks, I would do it myself too, my original education was in electronics, by the age of 18 I already totally designed, built, and assembled 4 night clubs with speakers and amplifiers built by me, and I'm not talking about buying a speaker and putting it inside a box, I'm talking about buying every single part and even magnetizing the magnets of the speaker which is done after you finish building it, to design of the circuitry and PCBs and even printing and drilling of double side ones which was a big thing for 1988 and DIY. Hell I even made a LASER that made cool graphics in the air with a helium neon laser that used a 20,000 volts PSU. Hahahah... But times change things, and my hands are too big for these little things

Can't wait till you finish it and hopefully you discover you got a better screen than me, a mean, we know is the same, but I wonder if those stickers means you got a version 2 of it.

 

All you need is an hourly bill from IBM before you realise how expensive a bill like that can be, even the kit to help install their kit can be really pricey just to rent!

 

Exact reason why I'm not complaining about how much I paid even I know how much it cost the materials. What they charge to do the installation with shipping included is probably only $70 more of what the shipping back and forth cost, that barely covers 1 hour of a med end skilled technician, I highly doubt you can do this in just 1 hour. Including testing, cleaning, repackaging etc etc. So, importing is also expensive. You have to pay to a customs agent to get your stuff, you have to pay taxes, you have to keep stock of parts you know are going to cost less by the time you finishe selling them all and probably lose some money in there, you have to take it back if the client does not like it, and re install the old one, lots of risk for just a few bucks, so, obviously you have to make money with the hardware. And you are probably not making much with the laptop itself but only by the warranties and accessories. I bet you don't make more than. 10% on the base model of the machine. Your SSDs and accessories are competitive with the market. (US) (Sager) can't talk about other companies because I have not even checked. It took just 7 days to get it back, and would take me more than 7 days to buy it again if I screw it. I paid the machine with a super low rate loan I got online, so I'm paying about $175 a month I think. Need my cash to pay for a house .

 

Do all the games support SLI? No image editing or animation or production software supports it. Some color correction software does but not exactly by SLI, background processing while you keep working or simple multithreading.

 

This is one of the problems I have with SLI.

While I could play in SLI most games, it is almost impossible to make most software take full advantage of SLI. I hope that nvidia will address this problem sooner or later though.

 

I think are the developers the problem not Nvidia. I'm beta tester for many animation and post production software that does pretty much all of in in GPU and my conversations with them is pretty much always the same answer. We do not have the resources or enough clients to make the effort that it takes to program for it. It's not a driver thing. It's like multithreading. Some things can not be distributed to different cores because their result depends on the previous frame result.

 

That seems quite like it will not be implemented soon.

I *think* that implementing SLI is way more work that it might seem.

Implementing software to transfer each frame two times, one time to display, then at the same time to the other GPU vRAM, then the next GPU calculates it's frame, then sends both to render queue and to the other GPU vRAM and so on.

I really thought that nVidia does this management, because if I as a developer would have to do it, it would be a lot of work. This is somewhere where Pascal will come in handy. Because the time it takes to transfer the latest frame from GPU1 to GPU2 and so on might be considerably too high, and this induces micro stuttering. So by making the connection between two SLI GPUs much faster, with much larger bandwidth, this should improve rendering and eliminate all problems imposed by SLI. In theory, of course

Now, the remaining question is if nvidia does add a tool for managing this thing(something to implement fast in C# or python), or you have to do it old fashioned way (with low level coding in C++ or java).