*** Official Clevo X170SM-G/Sager NP9670M Owner's Lounge ***

I'm on a 10700K.

I got rid of XTU and installed ThrottleStop, but I'm still in doubt regarding my REAL default Processor Core IccMax and Processor Cache IccMax values.

I'm quite sure that Throttle Stop gave me 245 A the first time I looked at it, but now it says 210 A for CPU Core, and JUST 20 A for CPU Cache. Is that right??? Shouldn't the CPU Core and CPU Cache have the same IccMax value? In XTU I was unsure if the real value was 245 A or 210 A, but now this makes it even more confusing.



Could the guys with a 10700K please tell me what DEFAULT values they have for CPU Core IccMax and CPU Cache IccMax in ThrottleStop?

 

ThrottleStop is not reading those values accurately. It works okay but you can't go by those numbers because they're not right. An update is needed for 10th Generation processors. I see the same values with 10900K. It is not 20A.

 

Cache is just the CPU SRAM, if its using 20A at around 1V, something is wrong with your CPU..
Uninstall XTU, reset your BIOS, delete TS init file, then run it again.

 

It is an incorrectly reported value in ThrottleStop. It should be reported correctly in XTU. ThrottleStop still works, you just need to ignore that number or set it manually if you want it to show the correct value. By default, it is in synch with the core so it does not matter.

 

My room temp is around 73 because we got central air here in my florida home. Sometime we put it down to 70 because my wife likes to freeze us. (She's latin lol so she's naturally hot blooded) thats my joke with her. I was actually thinking of getting a portable ac but I was scared of condensation the dew point here is all over the place lol depending on heat and then its a laptop to top it off.

 

Also 8th and 9th gen is affected. If you click on Intel Gpu you'll most likely exactly see same 20A value. Not a huge bug. Neither something to worry about. CPu Core IccMax value will overrule them all.

 

Yes, that is correct. Same way on my 9750H and the Intel GPU is the same as well. It does not affect anything.

 

That could be an issue. Living in Florida, or other Gulf states, humidity is a real hazard. Where I live there is no humidity and rather than condensation the harzard is extreme ESD. It is amazing that my computers have survived the ESD. Several times per day I get zapped on the keyboards or mice and the screens turn off and come back on again. But, they're like a Timex... take a lickin' and keep on tickin' LOL.

 

Well this x170 seems to have good ventilation on the bottom of the case so maybe a laptop stand with fans to blow air may help. what do you think. I have 5 fan one and with the air at 70 here my arms get cold while i type lmao

 

Does these screw make temps better overall for replacing the or is just for quality look?

 

Amazing.
Are you using the default Clevo vBIOS with 200W tdp limit or Prema has been able to raise the tdp so you are on a custom vBIOS ?

Are you willing to share some a screenshots of you oc tool so we could try and get our vga cards close to your score ?

How stable are those settings ? Is it 100% stable and fine for gaming or it crashes randomly ?

 

Hi. Using stock Clevo vBIOS. It works excellent. It stays pegged at 200W all the time. The only thing that would make it better is having a 400W power limit and a 1.300V limit.

The vapor chamber keeps the GPU below 70°C (usually mid to low 60s). I just use MSI Afterburner and lock the voltage to the max. I have an old video in my YouTube channel that shows how to do this on any desktop or laptop GeForce GPU from Pascal forward. The overclock is totally stable until you exceed what your GPU is capable of. This will vary with temperature and where you lock the voltage. Obviously, higher voltage allows for higher overclock.



The 10700K is also a solid performer on this platform. Great option for gaming. Temps are also really good with much lower power demand. I'd say it probably makes more sense than the 10-core CPU option for most people. It is basically a newer version of 9900K and that is still a fantastic CPU for gaming.

 

Only reason I want the 10 core is to make unity compile faster. But I was thinking of the 10850K instead of the 10900K

 

Where were you able to get version 7.0.1.4 of XTU? I downloaded it from the official website and it was version 6.something. I'd like to see if a newer version of XTU actually applies the undervolt after reboot.

Also, for the CPU core (not the cache), I see that your IccMax value is 245.000 V. Does that appear as 210.000 V inside ThrottleStop? That's also a thing I'm trying to understand, if my system should be 210 or 245 V, since I've seen both values in both programs and I can't figure out which one is the one I should have.

 

I went with 10850k im sure performance will be about the same as a 900k

 

I don't know what version of XTU I have. I will have to look. It often lies about a new version being available when there is not one available. I just downloaded whatever was available on the Intel web site.

Maybe you see ICC change because CCC changes it dynamically. I never worry about ICC or PL1/PL2. I just max them out so I don't have to care if they are high enough and spend more time tuning voltage.

 

The version was written on the top left in your screenshot, below the program's name. I found it on the Intel website as well now, it seems that this newer version was released very recently. Nevertheless, the undervolt with XTU still does work for me.

Not that I know much about it but I'm not sure if "maxing out" the amperage of the Icc is right... Isn't there a risk of giving too much? Just like you wouldn't max out the voltage of the processor...

 

That must be a recent change to the UI. It used to be necessary to go to another area to find a version number. I haven't used XTU for several years. I am only using it now because the Prema BIOS is still a work in process. Otherwise, I would not have it installed. I really do not care for it, but for the time being it is a necessary evil.

Current Limits (amps) and Power Limits (watts) are exactly that. Key word is limit, which is a cap. Core voltage adjustments are actual values that are applied, whereas the current and power values are how much you are making accessible to the CPU when it asks for it. Core VID is is also slightly different from core voltage. Core VID is how much voltage the BIOS is making available to the CPU and core voltage is what is being applied. Some sensors report core VID and core voltage as being the same thing, but they are not.

My practice has always been to remove current and power limits and give a CPU all the legroom it needs to run wild and free, while controlling the clocks and voltage, and that has always served me well. Clocks and voltage also affect thermals, but having power limits that exceed what the CPU is capable of using does not affect thermals.

 

Hello!
A few weeks ago we talked about an issue which I brought up, to be more precise a ghosting issue with the 240 Hz panel that I found.

As a reminder I said that t certain parts I can see some ghosting on the edges when G-Sync is active using my 240 Hz panel. Here are the photos I made:





After my post @Entropytwo posted that he can also see this issue, here is the photo he made:



I am not really familiar with monitor tech and issues so I did not really explain the problem and I wasn't able to pinpoint the cause.

Well, after digging around some, I found out that this is actually a well known issue with many desktop monitors and even with laptop displays. The name of the issue is "Overshoot" / "inverse ghosting".

A desktop monitor user explains the problem here:



As you can see it is the same issue as the one I described.

The issue is caused by either of these 2 things:
1) rarely bad quality panel/edid FW
2) more commonly enabled screen overdrive

What is overdrive?
Response time overdrive allows you to push the monitor’s response time speed (pixel transition time) in order to decrease the trailing/ghosting of fast-moving objects.
Depending on the refresh rate, too strong overdrive can cause pixel overshoot or inverse ghosting. In short its a small way to "cheat" and emulate faster response time. However the actual response time does not change and many panels can produce the ghosting seen above with overdrive enabled as a side effect.

This problem is not limited to desktop monitors and laptops are also affected. The issue is not only visible with the Clevo X170SM-G and has been around with other laptops as well, like ASUS and MSI.

Many users do not notice this issue, however the visibility depends on the panel. The first and so far most visible issue was with the ASUS GL703GS: https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...e)-display-panels-affected-by-inverse-ghostin



MSI users also reported this problem:





It is also a huge issue that like Clevo, ASUS and MSI also stated that "this is normal". Hower when ASUS and MSI fans started to gather and started to talk about a class action lawsuit, both ASUS and MSI quietly fixed the problem.

The fix is actually pretty easy. Clevo has Clevo Control Center, ASUS has Armoury Crate and MSI has Dragon Center. Both ASUS and MSI updated the BIOS and released a new version of their software with a new option: the possibility to disable the Overdrive which is factory enabled in the BIOS because this is a trick to push the response time further down to be more "eSport friendly" and they dont care about the side effect.




Maybe overdrive decreases the response time minimally but personally I would rather use a screen with 7 ms response time and no overshoot, then one with 3 ms and overshoot/ghosting.

It is also a very sad and pathetic thing that 9/10 reviewers doesn't even mention this problem, like it never existed and when someone buys the laptop they recommended then the customer immediately feel angry and disappointed that he/she received a "lemon" and no one else has this issue. One of the few reviews where this problem was mentioned and even the panel response time was measured with both enabled and disabled overdrive: https://techplanet.today/post/msi-ge75-review-crazy-gaming-power (JarodTech)

So in other words, there is a high chance that the issue I am talking about is caused by overdrive which is factory enabled to push down panel response time and could be fixed on the software side with just adding an extra button.

However since I am just a lowly paying customer and Clevo doesn't care about what I have to say, could please resellers team up and ask Clevo to release a new BIOS and/or Clevo Control Center where they give the user the possibility to enable/disable laptop screen overdrive ?
I don't care if Clevo does the same as ASUS and MSI did and never officially admit this problem and apologize and instead just quietly fix it with this new option.

@XMG @Spartan@HIDevolution @Donald@zTecpc @clevo-extreme @Meaker@Sager @John@OBSIDIAN-PC

(Sorry if I left anyone out)

 

Hi! Does anybody have a copy of the service manual / instructions describing how to install an additional SSD / M.2 ?

 

It's easy to add more SSD's.

Disconnect the power, close the lid, flip the machine over, take the battery out, take the screws out, lift up the upper half plastic bit.

3 slots on the left are NVME. Single slot on the right is SATA but uses M.2 2280 form factor. Drives on the left will have a metal heatsink over them, so remove that.

If you don't have the metal screw posts already installed, then install them first, slot the drive in, screw down, done. Then put the bottom back on (I found this was the harder bit), screw it back in, put the battery back in, connect power, boot your machine.

This is what mine looked like when I was done.

 

Hi, should the SATA be used for the OS drive and the NVME for storage?

 

Other way around buddy. Use NVME drives for the OS as it will make the system feel snappier and use the SATA drive for cheap and fast mass storage.

 

Typically, it would be the opposite

 

Depends on the types of drives and their small file speeds to be fair along with their capacity.

 

I agree with you. I have multiple operating systems installed on SATA and NVMe SSDs and I honestly cannot tell a difference in system responsiveness unless I run a benchmark on the drive(s) to identify which one is fastest. If I had a small M.2 SATA and a much larger NVMe drive I would install the OS to the smaller SATA drive and use the NVME for data storage. If they were all the same size or the SATA were larger capacity, then I would install the OS on the NVMe and use the SATA for data storage.

 

i dont know about using CCC its cancer causing. Theres gotta be an alternative to it.

 

Right now the only acceptable option for CPU control is XTU, which is also garbage. Just not as bad.

That doesn't address the other missing functionality (like fans and LED keyboard controls). It is really unfortunate that Clevo, Alienware, MSI, ASUS and all of the other vendors have moved to the trashy UWP garbage software manner of dealing with things. Everything based on a UWP / Micro$lop Store distribution model sucks. Everything. No exception.

 

Do you know if obsidian had that fan control feature working on the x170sm? if so ill buy again because i have purchased before for a p775tm and it worked great

 

I am not sure. I never needed it before and never tried using it. Even now I really do not. Auto fans works fine for most things for me. If necessary, I switch to max fans.

What would be ideal is if pressing FN+1 cycled through off > low > med > high (max) fans speeds. That would be perfect.

 

Use the drive that offers real-world performance as boot drive. Those fancy high Sequential speed numbers won't speed up your OS. You should rather look at 4K Random read/write speed when you look after a drive used as OS disk. The NVMe drives who offer best Sequential speed doesn't necessarily mean the best drive as boot disk.

Understanding SSD Speed Specifications and their Relevance. Again, all depends on how you'll use the computer/ssd's.

Random and Sequential: What’s the deal?
Both on specifications pages and in general, there are two main ways that a storage drive’s speed of accessing data will be measured: Randomly, and sequentially.

Simply put, sequential access is when data is either read or written in a regular, orderly back-to-back fashion. The data is all right next to each other (not necessarily physically, but let’s not get into that).

On the other hand, random access is, well, when data isn’t accessed in a regular, back-to-back fashion—even if it’s just one block of data off.

Picture yourself grabbing some bottles off of a shelf. If you do it sequentially, you’re taking everything off in a row, without skipping. If you do it randomly, you might reach into different rows and at different points in the rows. Simple enough, right?

 

Up to you. I use the SATA for my OS (Windows and Linux) plus file storage, and the NVME for all my games and my documents folder.

I don't notice any major difference in general usage tbh (desktop has an NVME drive for OS), but I do for loading games.

 

In-case anyone was wondering...

Picked up a used Razer Core X Chroma (the one with USB ports and ethernet on the back) and it works fine with this machine... or at least windows detected it and all Razer stuff was then downloaded. Need to find a spare GPU to throw in it later for testing purposes.

 

Yeah if you want to be as efficient as possible as above but mostly have the smaller one as boot and the larger one as storage.

 

what kind of paste are you guys using for your GPU and CPU? Would LM be worth it on the 2080s and a 10850k on ihs? Should I delid?

Has anybody tried that extreme thermal grizzly thats pink?

 

The option to turn off overdrive is in clevo control center? i really dont wanna install it but i have the 300hz panel on mine.

 

No and that's the problem. Clevo needs to add it to CCC or the bios itself. I don't think that Insyde bios has an option for that so the only way is for Clevo to add it to CCC.
Many users would not be happy that due to this they are forced to use CCC, but it's better then not having the option at all...

Now I just hope that Clevo cares enough about their customers to add this option.

Just for reference...do you see the mentioned over shift/ inverse ghosting on your 300 hz panel ?

 

The Alienkiller is on the loose. First run, minimal effort and no air conditioning... *BOOM* Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner. So much for Area 51m R2... RIP. Can't even keep up with 2 extra CPU cores. And yes... it's a stock Clevo vBIOS... no vBIOS mod is available and probably never will be.

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/23812405

 

Haven't received my laptop yet

 

You won't find this in stores and you can't buy it from G.SKILL. But, there might be one place you can get it. Maybe... we'll see. Time will tell.

 

Executing on this effectively is going to be problematic. The overdrive fix has to be done via a direct monitor interface layer, which has then to be implemented into a CCC switch. But only the screen ODM or Clevo has the list of undocumented commands needed to access the right one and not brick the screen. It would also be unique to each monitor model. So, on systems offered with more than one display panel, it can be even more problematic. It's usually not done via BIOS. These options increase the screen response time above the advertised value and you know people would whine and complain about that. Clevo would have to add a detect device ID and toggle button accordingly in code to hide the option on systems where it is not applicable. Otherwise, users of systems with other screens would complain about not seeing a difference when turning it on and off.

So, easier said than done. And, be careful what you ask for. Alienware pulled similar crap and I think many of us will remember the issue of EDID corruption thing that was happening back in 2015 with the failure to POST with 8 beeps because the Alienware BIOS could not find an "approved" panel EDID. I don't think anyone wants to see similar drama and nonsense on a Clevo.

Probably best for all concerned to keep things simple and not add unnecessary layers of complexity that create opportunities for failure. If ghosting is something folks are concerned about, maybe sticking to 144Hz is the better approach... as opposed to buying a fancier screen with an insanely high refresh rate only to turn right around and cripple it. That would make about as little sense as going with 4K and using scaling that makes the screen real estate the functional equivalent of 1080p so the text is readable on a laptop screen that is too small to gracefully handle it.

 

It would look like the original Clevo Bios has less functionalities than its xmg counterpart, specifically the ability to enable or disable hardware such as camera, microphone/audio and so on.
I have no idea if there are other differences but now I wonder which version of this bios would be the best to obtain.
(Just as usual the back and lateral LEDs do whatever the hell they want)

 

This, just this. High refresh rate screens are awesome and I love them, but I fail to see the point of any screen with a refresh rate over 144 Hz. There's no CPU in the world that has enough single core performance to allow for 240 FPS gaming in the majority of modern titles. Software optimization would help, but quite a few AAA titles are already quite optimized. Of course this is a problem I enjoy tackling when developing software. It's fun to see just how far you can push performance.

In conclusion for prospective buyers of this laptop or any like it, don't get a 240 Hz or 300 Hz panel for any system. They don't make sense at this time, and you won't have to deal with ghosting issues.

 

10900k, 128GB Kingston, Samsung 980 PRO 1TB, RTX2080 Super, ETA Oct 30.
Will let you know how it works out. Almost changed my mind and went with the Aero 15 OLED 10980, 64 gb, 5lb laptop that doesn't need 2 bricks =P

 

What ya doing with all that ram?

 

Rendering drawings at work.
I plan on keeping this for a few years, might as well future proof it.
I am still on my old P570WM Clevo with GTX 770m. (32 GB ram, 6-cores, 2 power bricks) It has served me well. These are real war machines. =P

 

Hi guys

How does this system detect a new SSD, I've installed an A2000 1TB in the SATA section and normally I go to device manager for hardware changes?

 

Check Disk Management to be sure it is recognized, and initialized. If it is recognized, but not initialized...initialize it.

 

Go to Disk Management. If it is brand new it may need to be initialized. You will likely see an automatic prompt when you open Disk Management. If not, see if it is there in the list and right-click on the drive.

If it is not in the list confirm you have it in the correct M.2 slot and properly seated. If it is a Kingston A2000 NVMe it will not work in the SATA-only slot and needs to be moved to a M.2 slot with PCIe support. The single bay that is on the opposite side from the 3-slot M.2 drive bay supports only SATA drives.

 

Disk Manager only shows my main OS SSD, I've rescanned and refreshed. Looks like it's not recognised...