*** Official Clevo X170SM-G/Sager NP9670M Owner's Lounge ***

Lots of good questions here. First of all, if you start out using Windows 10 LTSC or LTSB, there is no Edge by default. There is no Cortana, no pre-packaged crapware, none whatsoever. However, there is also no app store. I have figured out a way to get around all of these issues but haven't found the time to create a guide for it as I think it will be a sort of spoon feeding because this is not that hard to figure out for anyone, not just us tech-heads. The advantage of using Windows 10 LTSC or LTSB is that you only get basic and long term updates. There will be no new "features" rolled out without your consent, no major UI changes and no add-ons. You should try and go that route.

Regarding the video card, you really need to figure that one out for yourself because only you know what you want to do with it. For sheer raw performance, i'll be brutally honest here, get a desktop! It'll be way cheaper and much more customizable in the long run. Only get this machine if you cannot afford to keep a desktop in your living place or move around a lot; or just want a strong machine which you can carry all over the place in your living area as in my case. If it will stay on your table all the time, it'll be a waste to get it.

 

As a LTSC win 10 user, I can attest I wish I'd have done the change as soon as the x170 arrived to me, however, it may be that having no standard access to win store apps will be a problem, guess it depends on the user. Having a downloadable exe is apparently very tough and challenging..

 

You can install the bare minimum essentials of app store without the bloatware and use it to install the modded CCC without problems. All you need is a bunch of app bundle files and powershell. Once i come on my machine again then I'll post a guide for that here.

 

So here is the 3 step guide along with all the files needed, bundled in this archive for Windows 10 LTSC and LTSB users who do not have app store available. This will help them to install the CCC modded version as per my guide by simply double clicking on the app icons. Just download the .7z archive and follow the Installation Instructions file. I'll integrate this into the main modded CCC guide as well.
Download link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gkVuTMuaFP200HNYTJ99l1U0BNQ_XlRD/view?usp=sharing
Password: x170smg

Here are the files and their respective md5sum values (hyperlinked with virustotal) included in the package in case you want to check them out before downloading:

1. Microsoft.DesktopAppInstaller_2020.1111.2238.0_neutral___8wekyb3d8bbwe.AppxBundle (73013E94154BAE10A64A54FE08B3653D)
   
2. Microsoft.DesktopAppInstaller_2020.1111.2238.0_neutral___8wekyb3d8bbwe.BlockMap (407395EFC1FCE0F074F4F2B03F86AE02)
   
3. Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00.UWPDesktop_14.0.29231.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.Appx (32C6243C61E90D6499861D9CBE8EAC36)
   
4. Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00.UWPDesktop_14.0.29231.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.BlockMap (557D5F25340A72C4C85117AD5258AF07)
   
5. Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.29231.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.Appx (BE6BAAC3FDA20B0807C919D0F2D1DA17)
   
6. Microsoft.VCLibs.140.00_14.0.29231.0_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe.BlockMap (02F77788453B59F95D16659AAFE790D1)
   
7. Installation Instructions.txt (2943292AAD48BF922EFA244DF4F0C47D)

 

So in a laptop like the X170SM-G, is there any advantage to run Windows 10 Pro for Workstations over the regular Windows 10 Pro?

 

Why not? Having a backup on hand is useful anyway.

 

I was referring to playing. Of course I would want a back up.

 

Thanks, that is good info.

I have never used windows 10, plus I don't know enough about Windows 10 to know what programs I need and which ones I don't. Or which ones cause problems if I don't have them, and which I have to have but need a work around because they are intrusive.

So basically I need a plan of what to start with, what to add, what to remove, what to work around and modify. And I would like to learn why also.

Is it an option to buy a x170 from zTecpc with enterprise LTSC?
Or would I need to get a bare bones?
And where would I get LTSC?

What is the difference between LTSC and LTSB?
And which one is the best option to get?
Will office word still work on them?

So is it better to run enterprise LTSC and do install the bare essentials of app store and modded CCC, or to use Windows 10 pro and strip out all of the other stuff and modify the app store?

Is it even possible to get all the intrusive stuff out of Win10 pro?
What is the difference in features between enterprise and windows 10 pro?

What is a downloadable exe? and what would that be for?

I second this question

 

It supports 1x PCIe only, 1x SATA only, 2x PCIe or SATA. So, you can have up to 3 PCIe NVMe drives, plus 1 SATA SSD.

 

Are there any glossy panel options for this laptop anywhere? I absolutely detest matte screens.

If not, are there any glossy panels that are known to work with this laptop, or is a panel swap not an option? I'd really like to not have to remove the anti-glare layer on a matte panel. It's not a fun process.

 

You can download Windows 10 LTSC 2019 from my drive link (I found it in a forum on a very slow third party server and after checking it out thoroughly, uploaded one for my own use).
md5sum is 417FBCAE0E243C10B1E00D5699796CCF in case you want to download from some other source (upto you).
I bought my LTSC license from this link: https://www.gvgmall.com/windows-10-enterprise-ltsc-2019-cd-key-global.html?urd=TecnoTur
The transaction was instant and I got my key straight away so it was a very fast process.

Regarding whether ztec will offer it with LTSC is entirely upto @Donald@zTecpc as it's their call. But I do have to say that this platform is a lot more stable and has fewer BSODs which were always driver related in case of Pro and even Home edition of Win10. Benchmark performance is also better due to less crap running in the background.
I personally recommend LTSC over LTSB but the difference is very minimal. Everything will work on it including office etc so you don't have to worry about that.

 

Ok thanks. I think skipping pro altogether sounds like a good idea if possible.

I haven't figured out yet how to get an x170 with Prema, and widows10 LTSC. I really would like to have Prema, and delidding / Mr. Fox cooling on there.

The plan if I went barebones would be: Load Win10 LTSC, and then install the bare minimum essentials of app store without the bloatware and use it to install the modded CCC.

Then I would need to figure out how to configure the settings, and get rid of MAPS, People, BioEnrollment service, Xbox, delivery optimization backdoor (dosvc, domgmt), the Windows Update Medic Service, telemetry services, Killer and Intel stuff.

I am not sure what else needs to be removed that comes on Win10 LTSC.
cortana, edge / explorer?

Would using edge interfere with all of the removal? and what browser should I use if I don't want to use Chrome?

Does the updates still work with that stuff stripped out?

 

Could anyone PLEASE share a few screenshots with optimal Throttlestop (or similar tools) settings as outlined in the quoted text? This would be very kind and would be super appreciated (not only by myself but also other beginners). I mean many of the active and experienced users here seem to have been through the process, but I slowly get the feeling the details of the CPU tuning are kept hidden like state secrets :-D Is there any secret competition going on who gets and keeps the highest benchmark scores, haha?

 

Right I am new to undervolting also. A guide would be nice.

 

Also, when the 11th gen CPU's come out will we get PCIe 4.x support for nvme's?

 

Can add in. RTX cards is not supported on LTSB.

 

Aren't all of the 2060, 2070, 2080 video cards RTX?

So a 2060, 2070, or 2080 video card wont work with Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB operating system?

 

Is there an upgrade cost from Windows 10 Pro to LTSC or LTSB and I am running an RTX2070.

I am still wondering about Windows 10 for Pro for Workstations.

 

Yees. http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/windows-10-enterprise-ltsc-2019.833196/page-7#post-11043391

You'll need a clean install. Can't upgrade LTSC over Pro.

Regarding Win 10 Pro Workstation http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/windows-10-20h2.830339/page-52#post-11062392

 

When i did my install it worked just fine. Yet my source (where I got my windows from) might have updated it himself lol so I kind of cheated

 

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/31385-the-throttlestop-guide/
Guide which is included with every installation of throttlestop, as usual, google is your friend ( as long as solarwind keeps working) and I learned it from there.
I didn't overclock the cpu per say (48 48 47 47 45 45) but I did tune my 10600k to behave till my damn new screws for the heatsink arrive, but it is very straight forward, -100mV on everything, speedshift to 32, high performance profile, and auto change to a battery profile with same undervolt, 4.5ghz tops, speedshift to 200 when it is unplugged or , if something clevo happens, it reaches 1500C.
I left the power limits as they are, with this undervolt it is never going to reach those voltages anyway so I don't bother, plus in a combined full load it won't handle more than 100W on the cpu anyway, soaks up to circa 15 mins in the stress test.


don't necessarily copy these ofc, but it is just my experience and i'm super fine with it, considering i never ever meet thermal throttling even on full combined load

 

I stand corrected

 

What in the name of leather jacket are you talking about? You think I would've installed LTSC without my 2080 super being supported?
It works perfectly, hell with less **** hindering it , works even better.
Besides, don't want to mod anything? buy one right now directly from whichever reseller you fancy the most, depending on your area, it's not like the machine won't work out of the box.
These discussions are primarily for people who want to get the most out of their computers, as such you have to :
1) remove bloatware
2) remove things that don't work ( ccc "overcloking " for instance )
3) tune cpu and gpu voltage / voltage curves / clocks and ( with prema ) ram timings, voltages and frequencies.
No one forces anyone to do these mods, nor are they necessary for everyone.

I personally do them because I decide when I want my cam or microphone on, I decide what to install on my machine, I decide what to do with my bandwith, not Microsoft, and also I like efficiency and utterly despise thermal throttling, so here I am, like many others.

Forgot: I also think these LEDs which don't really behave much to my taste scream my belonging to my parent's basement, but that's subjective.

 

Here is info that appears to say that it doesn't work.

And here is you implying that it does.

 

The only thing I can think of about Enterprise versions of Windows not supporting the RTX cards is how many companies are giving their employee's Clevo laptops, they are usually giving 99% of the employees Dell Latitudes or HP Elitebooks or Thinkpads with Intels low end graphics, so why need dedicated GPU support?

The 1% of business uses that do CAD/CAM/ Data modeling, Animation, etc are not running low end laptops with integrated graphics.

 

Well, yeah, ltsc isn't ltsb, it's 2 different versions, one following the other, anyway, I just said that I am using LTSC with a 2080 super and it is working flawlessly without problems. Yeah they are both windows 10 versions, but it is like implying you get rtx support for the first 2015 version of windows when leather jacket still hadn't unleashed ray tracing upon us mortals.

 

You are confusing LTS B with LTS C

Your needs/desire seem to be wanting a tweaked to your specific specs out of the box system that may transcend what a reseller is capable of delivering. You can satisfy the hardware you require with ZtecPC.

Software wise, you will either need to get under the hood a little bit or find someone who will customize your Windows 10 install to your specifications and then provide a backup image for it and subsequently you making
backup images on a routine basis just in case.

You could discuss your exact installation preferences with various resellers starting with ZtecPC since you desire Prema and custom cooling for optimal performance out of the box and see what/if they can provide in regards to
software preferences.

 

Follow my posts above. And to be clear. Up to you what OS you want to run. Windows 10 come in different flavours. One less tasty than the other.

Please don't mix up. LTSC isn't the same OS version as already mentioned. Vanilla Win 10 works for all. But not the best option if you want the best eperience from Windows (stability/consistency). See this... This apply whatever computer you buy. Regardless of brands. Some even like the pre-installed Home Edition who often can't be rejected (added into minimum price config for the notebook) although you are locked out from in deeper customizion.

Regarding OEM software in combination with Windows Microsoft Store and updates... Be prepared to meet a lot mess if you don't tweak it to your likings. This beauty below is from one brand. But all brands notebooks will run into same/similar problems. Remember Windows OS is now running as a Services. Expect mess. But The Long-Term Servicing Channel ( LTSC) won't get useless feature updates. Hence you'll get less mess if you run this Win 10 version.

m17 R3, keyboard lighting not working, AWCC components missing

17 R5, problems with Alienware OC Controls

It's just a shame. All that money they take and give this buggy software

 

Ok thanks,

I totally missed the lettering difference.

Since I don't know anything about either of the versions, I don't have any frame of reference to know functional differences. I sort of thought they were the same for some reason.

 

Exactly. And I see a path now.

Barebones ZtecPC with prema and the binned, delidded cpu, with their thermal upgrade, and then load LTSC and modded CCC myself.

Then I want to figure out a list of what features I need to keep and what to get rid of and how to do it which I am still unclear on, and if using Edge would conflict with that goal or not.

BTW, I appreciate everyone's advise and help figuring it out, and enjoy learning.

 

Thank you very much! This is very helpful and gives me some confidence in what I've done so far. How do you test stability of your undervolting? Prime95 Small FFT for 15 mins?

 

Whoever told you that graphics cards do not work on Windows 10 LTSC / LTSB has his head buried behind him where the sun doesn't shine.

 

What’s the current limit on the X170 motherboard? Clevo’s previous Coffee Lake boards were limited to 138A.

 

Aida 64 extreme + heaven gpu. Also 3dmark stress tests and some games, first scenario is by far the worst one, with 330 340 350 watts consumed. I also check for any errors via event viewer / hw info 64. on battery ofc i haven't done any stress testing of that level, as I want battery life when I'm moving it around, I did pcmark test however for general office tasks and ofc real life testing for , at this point, weeks. The system is sensibly more sturdy on LTSC and manual cleanup compared to the old win 10 pro installation, 15 Euro rupees better spent ever.

 

Anyone know when Prema bios will be available from HID?

 

So all the laptops I have disassembled in the past have had at least 1, maybe 2 screws holding them in place along with the tabs, is that not the case with this laptop> just push the keyboard forward and lift and it comes out? I am asking so I can access the 2 sodimm slots under the keyboard. Thanks.

 

The thermal pads for the M.2 drives, is there a link where I can order another set off of Amazon or somewhere? it looks like there are 2 different thicknesses. Thank you

 

What...? Miss the Thermal design by Mr. Fox?

 

Well if you told me your plan before selling me this one.

 

HIDevolution has the Custom Prema BIOS for the P870DM3...are you referring to that, or the X170SM-G?

 

X170

 

Update your sig, that will probably help

 

HIDevolution should have it soon, if not already...but you still won't get the temps and performance that 'Thermals designed by Mr. Fox' produce.

I didn't sell you the X170SM...did you already buy it?

 

I haven’t seen my own sig in years.

 

I can’t believe you don’t remember selling me the X170. It was right before you moved to Ztec.

 

Donald has just sold too many systems over the years lol.

 

Yeah and my name is completely different from hd172

 

Oh my, yes. That was June 25th. I apologize. I do know your name.

 

Shame I bought mine before all this was offered via zTecpc

 

I wish more EU/UK places would offer the same customizations. In fact, the place I bought mine from doesn't even have them anymore. They only have the older 9700K model with two 2.5" drives and two NVME.