*** XMG Apex 15 with Ryzen 3950X / Clevo NH58AF1 Owner's Lounge ***

Gaming is 50-60dB, CPU only is a little less.

 

Damn! That’s crazy loud.

 

Depends on the distance.

 

Ah, that may be my fault. I have only tested my WoW multiboxing setup on it so far. I am guessing just a single game client would have considerably less CPU load, and hopefully less noise. I will try something like Witcher 3 tonight.

 

Still the same issue even with running Witcher 3.

I am wondering if there is some kind of issue with the 3950X with regards to fan control. In Performance mode at idle, the fan speeds are over 3000rpm for GPU, 4000rpm for CPU, temps are 65C, and TDP is 35W. I tried setting a custom fan curve but have not had much success so far.

 

That’s too bad, are temps decent when gaming?
Maybe it’s just one of things with high performance hardware you need a high performance cooling solution. 50DB isn’t too bad but when you start hitting 60DB that’s when you get into the way too loud it’s annoying.

 

Power is still power but they are tuned for the 6-12 cores.

 

65c at idle w/ 4000rmp? Is the bottom cover restricting airflow or?

 

@jc_denton I think what @Meaker@Sager was trying to say was that this is because this notebook wasnt designed for the 3950x and that is the reason behind the fan-speed and the noise.

 

The OriginPC eon-17x bottom seems to be thick enough to accommodate the B450 system, and looks like expanded version of XMG Apex15/HyperBook NH5zen/AfterShock Forge15R/OriginPC eon-15x​

 

thats how thick I expected our musclebooks to be!

 

Hi everyone - new user here. Created an account because I haven't seen many other users with this machine anywhere on the interwebs, and I wanted to share my experiences since I got it a few days ago. I got the AM4 machine as an early adopter without seeing any reviews because I knew that there was nothing else like it on the market, and thought I could try my hand at fixing problems when it arrived.

I purchased the version of this laptop sold by Xotic PC here (SAGER NP7958F1-S, CLEVO NH58AF1). So I have a 3900 and 2070 and 32 GB of 3200Mhz RAM.

This machine is a beast, and is killing every benchmark I throw at it - 6200 points in Cinebench R20 at max. I never expected to have so much power in a 15" and 6lb package. I'm always connected to an outlet, so the nonexistent battery life is not a problem for me. The screen is great, the keyboard is fine, trackpad fine (buttons a bit spongey, however). However, the power and noise management have been sucking up a ton of time to get working right. And the sound drivers provided are horrible. So that's what I'm here to write about, to help any of you who might get this system.

If you install all of the drivers provided with the system, leave the fans on auto, and leave the Windows power profile on Balanced, then you will have a very loud and inefficient laptop. With only one core loaded, you'll be seeing processor power at around 55W, CPU temps in the 80's and fan at 56 db. Not fun at all. Fans at full speed will go up to 68db. At full load, the socket will run at 90W at 3.8Ghz all core, and it will hit 95 degrees in a short time unless you have fans at full speed. The good part is you'll max out Cinebench R20 here.

I'm not doing heavy computing at all times, so I want to get those numbers down for when I'm just doing office tasks and web browsing. This has been the complicated part. The drivers provided with my system for power/noise management are really bad, and the BIOS is locked down so the options are very limited.

First off, I decided to ditch the Clevo Control Center. Its options were too limiting, and it kept defaulting to the Balanced power profile, which inevitably leads to the numbers listed above. The only way to quiet the fans with CCC and Balanced activated is to use the Quiet mode, which downclocks the processor to 500Mhz - not good. What is worse, the Balanced profile does not respect the processor power management percentages. I could set the maximum processor state to 50% and it would still be turbo boosting my cores to 4+ Ghz at idle, with high power and noise at the same time. Since the Balanced profile is useless, and the Clevo CC defaults to it at every boot and resume from sleep, I decided to get rid of the CCC. The downside to this is losing the ability for a custom fan curve - more on that later.

Second, Let's talk power plans. I recommend using PowerPlanSwitcher to move between plans quickly. I installed the most recent AMD chipset drivers, which provided the Ryzen Balanced and Ryzen High Performance power profiles. The Ryzen Balanced is just as inept as the regular Balanced. Does not allow anything but full boost speeds. Got rid of it. But the Ryzen High Performance is a different issue. When I change the max processor state to 99%, all kinds of goodness happens. First, it reduces the socket power draw to ~30 W instantly, running at 3Ghz. With fans on auto, temps drop to 57, and fans get down to 49db. With 3Ghz all-core, fans run at 56db, CPU at 72 degrees and 70 W max draw. This is the sweet spot for the processor. I get 5249 in Cinebench R20 with these settings. It's quiet enough for less demanding tasks. The downside is you lose all boost. Your max one-core and all-core speed is still 3Ghz.

What about the Power Saver plan that comes with Windows? It downclocks to your minimum processor state for low-core usage, even when loading one at 100% in R20. So, if you put your min to 50%, it will stay downclocked to 2.1Ghz even when one core is fully loaded. Not good. Then, when you do multicore past some hidden threshold, it totally goes unhinged, hammers the socket with 90W at full boost, with all the heat and noise along with it. So you could set the minimum to 99% (3Ghz), have 30W at idle, leave the maximum at 100%, and you will get full boost when doing multicore and 3Ghz during single core. The downside is that you still have no single core boost, and you get all the heat from 90W on the socket during all-core.

All I want is to have a high one-core boost and to limit the ceiling during all-core, but I can't have it both ways. I can do that with Ryzen Master, but without settings in the BIOS, that is a manual affair.

Third, let's talk fan control. The CCC has an "Auto" setting and custom fan curves. Auto is too aggressive in cooling for my tastes - It tries to get the CPU down to 60 with the fan constantly running at idle. You can get that fan noise down with a custom curve, but I did not find the curves responding to the numbers I provided. I would set the fans to 30% at a certain temp, and it would still be running at 45%. It was still quieter than Auto, and I was somewhat happy with it, but the CCC defaulting to Balanced at every logon was the tipping point for removing the Clevo software.

I tried using RLECViewer for custom fan control, and thought it might do the trick. It allowed me to run hotter and quieter by putting in a custom auto value like 75 degrees for the CPU. I even went so far as to create a custom Windows Service for it to run in the background at all times. But I ended up getting rid of it too - it had a weird tendency to reduce the fan speed to almost nothing for a few seconds during all-core boost. When your system is running at 95 degrees during a full load, and your fans go down to nothing, even for a few seconds, that can't be good. It did this every minute or so, so it was a repeatable problem.

So I'm back to the auto fan provided by BIOS, no Clevo software, with the Ryzen High Performance or Power Saver profiles. I don't see the situation changing until new drivers or a new BIOS comes out. This system is so new that I can't even find posted drivers for it on Clevo or affiliates' sites.

Finally, I had problems with the sound drivers as well. The provided Realtek drivers produced stutters and clicks. Windows Update gave me new drivers that removed the stutters. But the sound quality was still tinny, nasally, and had a sound distortion that hurt the ears (hard to describe). At first I thought the speakers must be low quality - just what I needed on a new system, a permanent fault. Then I tried using an equalizer to fix the distortion, but this Realtek driver has no EQ and does not support the ones I tried. It is really barebones. But then I discovered the custom-hacked APO driver. The official description here did not provide download links that worked for me (the file sharing sites they use are horrible). However, I found some user-provided download links deep into this thread. I ended up using the 8746.1 mod, which installed fine. This enabled an EQ and loudness equalization. I lowered the 250, 500, and 1k bands, turned Loudness Equalization on, and the speakers sound MUCH better. Goodbye tinny, dissonant sounds. However, Windows Update then promptly reinstalled the official drivers the next day. So I followed this procedure to block it.

Why did I have to go through all of that to "fix" the software provided with stock?

All in all, this laptop is great for what it is advertised to do. I am happy with it, but have come close to returning it several times. It is definitely half-baked when it comes to its emissions control, and the Realtek audio driver is really inexcusable. But I think I've gotten it to a place where I can make this my main travel system and retire the old one. Hopefully this long writeup will help some of you too.

 

@Brian Crawford Oh for fracks sake. I had genuinely hoped the noise complaints about this notebook was because it couldnt deal well with a 3950x, but your 3900 fits the 65W power envelope perfectly and its still way to fracking loud.

I spent so much fracking money on this piece of plastic and i already know i am going to fracking hate it.

I hope Clevo fracking fixes this or they can choke for all i care.

EDIT: Great review Brian! Thank you so much for telling us!

 

Forum Rules | NotebookReview

 

@Papusan

Just an FYI, I didnt censor anything. It did that by itself.

EDIT: Okay, better now?

 

Then read the first line of the rule

 

I have seen the error of my ways and edited it.

I am still mad about the noise-levels tho.

 

Thank you!! Can you tell me what you think about the screen in terms of display and the rigidity? I purchased the plastic body and screen and am considering cancelling it and having them gove me the aluminum case instead.

 

If you bought at "laptopparts4less" you can just email them and pay 50€ extra and get the metal version.

 

@Brian Crawford Thank you for your review. It sounds like your 3900 is also running pretty hot and loud just like the 3950X. I tried running mine at max load for an hour this morning with the bottom panel off, which did drop temps by about 10C - but then SSD temps went up some as well. I am considering picking up a 3700X to try instead of the 3950X - a few desktop reviews seem to indicate that it has lower idle and load temps due to only having a single CCX instead of two.

Attached is the latest version of ControlCenter distributed with the AMD barebones if you dont have it already.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2gzuna12dpy4om3/06_ControlCenter.zip?dl=0

 

wish i could, i bought it from clevo germany and used bank transfer...

 

Yep, it's not just a 3950X issue. Let us know if the 3700X works better

Thanks! Will check it out.

EDIT: That CCC is version 2.15, the same version that I received from Xotic. Unfortunately not any newer.

 

I have the aluminum display body. Actually, one of the first things I noticed in the unboxing was how rigid it was compared to my previous MSI GT62VR, which also had an aluminum top. Not sure what the plastic will feel like, but the aluminum is good!

 

Is there no way to edit /create custom fan curves?

I havent owned a Clevo in quite a few years now, so i am out of the loop.
Would we need a software solution to fix that or would we need a modded bios?

 

You can create a custom curve using the Clevo Control Center, but it is inaccurate. See my post for more of a description

 

I did. Read it all. Thanks again!

I was just hoping that there was still somehow an option that would actually work well.

 

Awesome that makes me happy that it’s as rigid as what I have now. Now only if UPS can get it together I may be able to share some information with you guys soon on temps.

 

Does power modes look like this? It should not have "Balanced" as an option.

I wish a custom curve would work. I am guessing since custom curves do not work even for a supported CPU like the 3900, there is a chance Clevo max fix it. I tried switching to the "Ryzen Performance" power profile and setting min/max processor state to 99%, which did seem to help (and cap the TDP at 70W too).

 

Yes, that's what it looks like. Whenever you click on one of those options, the Windows power profile gets switched to "Balanced" from whatever you previously had it set at. Now that you have "Ryzen Performance" activated, click on one of the options in CCC. It will switch you off "Ryzen Performance" and your fans will go crazy.

Glad you can confirm this on the 3950 too!

 

Nice, was the rigidity due to the aluminum lid or was the lid more of a cosmetic piece to the plastic, and the plastic was more responsible? I know it's hard to say but do you think the plastic was rigid or it was definitely the aluminum lid?

could you tell us the model of the display? is it the LG?

 

Yeah, hard to tell on the plastic vs. aluminum contributing to the rigidity.

Hardware ID for the monitor is LGD05E8. Specs seem to match with a quick Google search.

 

The plastic itself will be responsible for rigidity, the metal finish is just a finish.

 

thank you. looks like a solid screen from the reviews out there.

 

@Brian Crawford and @win32asmguy did you two get manual books with your laptops or are we left to what Clevo let’s out to the wild?

 

I take it Hwinfo64 does not support fan profiles for this model yet?

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqi18uoog0f3nzy/Manual.pdf?dl=0

I ended up purchasing Obsidian PC Fan Control for it. It seems like it is tuned very well for Clevo EC's, and does not have any DPC Latency issues either. Well worth the $30.

 

You can always go the Der8auer route if the idle temps are high, I quite enjoyed his solution.

 

30 Bucks is rough for a simple fancontrol tool.
I get that they probably dont thousands of licenses so the price cant be 5€, but you know.

Is this the only tool that can edit Clevo fancurves?
If so, i guess i am gonna get myself a license.

Is the updater tool worth it? Cant Clevo drivers just be downloaded on some website somewhere?

 

I think they primarily made it to be bundled with the machines they sell as a value added bonus, sort of like XMG with the unlocked bios. Other software may work, but when I found a few good recommendations of it for the P775TM / P870TM I figured it was worth a try.

 

My ASUS GL702ZC went stuck at 100% fan speed last week, found this laptop at Obsidian PC, ordered it straight away. Super excited to get this machine, it ticks all the boxes i need for a mobile workstation! Nice to see that their fan software seems to work well with this laptop.

They havent shipped it yet but hopefully ill get it soon.

What are ur temps since purchasing the Obsidian software? GPU/CPU temp ingame, cpu stresstest etc?

 

Interesting machine but won't the idle temperatures be very high due to the higher than usual consumption of the CPU/GPU at idle due to them not being mobile variants (and the lack of an iGPU usually found in regular laptops) ?

 

@bobbie424242 Yes, that would appear to be the case.

 

Temps will obv be higher with a discrete GPU but this laptop has good cooling that the GPU is Nvidia, they have good power saving states. Not sure how bad idle temps would be but i think they could be OK. I got a Asus GL702ZC with terrible cooling and idle is at 57 ish undervolted(dry cooling paste). I expect this laptop to do much better. I dont think its very probably that idle temps would be "very high"(i guess its a matter of definition?) but higher then an integrated GPU.

 

Cooling is sufficient, definitely. From what people say its pretty loud tho.

 

I'm sitting here doing office tasks with turbo off (at 3Ghz locked), a newly-purchased cooling pad (not too impressed with it so far), and the CPU sitting at its lowest 30W power. I have 57 degrees right now.

 

Interesting. It is about the same idle temp that the ThinkPad P72 in my signature when its Quadro P600 is driving an external display, and entirely silent.
Is your machine also silent at idle ?

 

Nope, on auto, fans are always running and audible. Using the included Clevo fan software, you can get the fans to turn off, but that limits you to 550 Mhz. Or, you can do a custom fan profile, which will allow you to run quieter and hotter. But there are downsides whatever you do. I wrote an extensive review on page 7 that says more.

 

Ok, thats not too bad but not it would be interesting to see what temps u get with undervolt on CPU and GPU. Did u try undervolting the CPU with ZenStates?

Also, did u change the cooling paste, if not do u have any idea of the quality of ur paste?

I heard XMG is using Kryonaut nowadays.

 

If you are looking for something with low idle temps consider the 3700X - it only has a single CCD chiplet so much less heat generation than the 3900 or 3950X. With a good paste job and some fan tuning it could very likely be silent at idle and reasonable under load.

 

Did you swap your CPU to the 3700X? Is it working better for you?