Battery Life Extender Samsung ATIV book 8

Hi, I have the Samsung ATIV Book 8 that I bought yesterday or I guess its known as the NP880z5e
I was browsing the web about it, and I read something about a battery life extender and I cant find it anywhere, not in the bios
or downloading it, when i download it, it doesnt install.
And I use this laptop almost as a desktop replacement so it would be plugged in most of the time but if i cant find the BLE, I might as well not plug it in all the time...
So can someone help me find the battery life extender it would be super helpful!

 

Hey Hawk, welcome to the forum. Congrats on that awesome new laptop

On previous Samsung models BLE is in BIOS (F2) as well as in Settings -- they control the same switch. I thought it was the same on new ones as well, and I'll be very surprised if that isn't the case.





BLE is not software that you install, it's a BIOS feature. What was it you downloaded that wouldn't install?

Edit: The thread linked below is the Owners Lounge for your model. BLE is mentioned on the opening post, so it would seem the feature should still be there.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sam...unge-np770z5e-np780z5e-np870z5e-np880z5e.html

 

okay so its not in the settings either

 

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Tips & Tricks: Extending Notebook Battery Life | Samsung Articles & Insights
From what i see, it looks like they removed the battery life extender from the newer samsung laptops

 

Thanks for that link.

Have you looked for the Smart Charging application that is described in the article (I see that it limits the charge to 70% - lower than BLE's 80%).

John

 

I've looked through the entire laptop and I don't see this feature anywhere. I don't know if its because they removed it or if the ativ book 8 is still new?
But its a feature that I would really like since its almost like a desktop replacer for me.

 

It probably gets installed as part of the Settings package. Try reinstalling Settings. If it isn't there the I suspect Samsung have taken BLE out of the Settings program before adding Smart Charging into the installation package.

You could also try using SW Update to download the Settings installer for the NP770Z5E. It may still include BLE. The NP880Z5E Settings is version 2.0.0.55 while the NP780Z5E is 2.0.0.49.

John

 

Will try , thanks for the input
So your saying that they might add the new battery life plus with smart charging in a later update? Correct?

 

@John: Oh, Settings 2.0.0.55 is out. I only got as far as 2.0.0.49. Thanks for sharing that.

@Hawk: Thank you for sharing that article. I don't think BLE can be implemented in Settings without firmware/BIOS support. So if it's not in BIOS, I suspect it's gone -- or replaced with this new Battery Life Plus.

I hope Samsung didn't discover that BLE had unforeseen bad effects on the battery (or just no positive effect) and therefore decided to retire it quietly. I do remember discussions here about whether it was all just marketing, and we've been limiting our charges to 80% for no good reason. I personally took it on good faith that BLE would prolong my battery life -- and I'm still hoping that remains true.

 

1. There can be a setting stored in the CMOS even if the value can no longer be adjusted in the BIOS setup.

2. I don't think Samsung have dropped battery charge management. They have renamed it and dropped the charge level in the battery. My understanding is that much of the wear in the Lithium batteries occurs during either the last stage of charging or the last stage of discharging. Samsung have quite limited options in this respect. The Thinkpad battery manager software provides for user-defined maximum charge and the charge level at which a top-up charge is initiated.

The tendency towards providing higher battery capacity and more power-efficient hardware means that many users have less need for a full battery charge and, if that means their battery will behave almost like new after two or three years, then it is good news.

John

 

Thank you John.

On (1) yeah, I see what you're saying. My point was if it doesn't have a BIOS setting, I doubt there will be one in Settings. BLE was the only Settings feature left that controls a BIOS switch -- everything else in Settings is pure software, working only in Windows. On 2013 models I guess Adaptive Brightness partly qualifies as well. I just think something that affects function outside Windows (or any OS) will typically have a BIOS switch.

On (2) I think it is more likely that Samsung decided to stop promoting the 80% number and switched to a "secret formula" with this new Battery Life Plus. It was always a marketing dilemma to say "we have a great feature that will limit your battery capacity to 80%, but promises some future benefit". I was always surprised that their legal let them get away with this: It was begging for a class action lawsuit (America Runs on Lawyers).

With Battery Life Plus working in the background using a "secret formula", they can claim a feature (to compete with Lenovo and others) which nobody can properly verify in the end. Much safer that way from a marketing and legal standpoint.

Edit: I understand the chemical argument for the 80%. What puzzles me is that I have had more and earlier battery decay with my Sammy (using BLE, discharging only 1-2 times a week) than on other devices with Lit-Ion or Lit-Pol batteries which I have consistently charged to 100%. For example my old LG Optimus V which I have fully charged every night since I got it almost 2.5 years ago; it's battery is still very close to original capacity, I often finish the day at 70% or better even though I use it extensively (including Tapatalking here).

 

Hopefully it'll be added back later, I don't know if that's possible. In the meantime I have no BLE, so what level of charge should I keep my battery at? Let it drop completely before charging, charging once it hits 50%?

 

A possible variable here is the design capacity per cell. The Lithium batteries will have a longer life if rated at, say, 70% of the maximum possible charge per cell and the system is designed to limit the charge to that level. One gets less than the potential maximum run time but provided that time is adequate (typically dawn to dusk moderate usage) then users are happy. There are two types of notebook users: (i) Those who want maximum freedom from the mains socket with, ideally battery-powered operation for a working day and (ii) those people who use a notebook as a portable desktop and don't use it much, if at all, away from the mains socket (and the built-in UPS is a bonus). The former need maximum battery capacity and the potential run time becomes a key purchasing factor while the latter people don't need much capacity. Hence a switchable option makes sense.

I don't recommend continuously running a charge - discharge process. The cycling will wear the battery more than letting it charge up to whatever the system wants and then automatically stopping the charging.

John

 

If it were me, I would just leave it plugged in and not worry about it, and assume that Samsung has its new magic working in the background. Particularly since I am not personally convinced that the 80% cap does as much to prolong battery life as we were promised. I think full discharge does far more to decay battery capacity. Admittedly, that's just me

When the end of your warranty is approaching, if HWInfo shows significant drop in battery capacity (say more than 20%) you could reasonably contact Samsung and ask for a replacement. I credit John for this idea, which I think it makes a lot of sense.

Edit: Oops, John beat me to it (as he often does )

I agree 100%: Limit the number of discharge cycles, that's the most important.

 

First run the battery calibration in the BIOS to do a full discharge - recharge cycle and hence ensure that the wear is updated.

John

 

What's the HWInfo? and how do I check if the battery capacity has dropped? lol So sorry for my lack of knowledge in any of this...That's why I'm a newb right? haha
And yea I think I'll leave it plugged in most of the time, since I'll be using it near charging ports anyways. Thanks for the advice, you guys are awesome!

 

No problem, I should have been more explicit about that. It's a free 3rd party tool downloadable from hwinfo.com, which provides a ton of hardware information and monitoring features. You will see it referenced all the time around here. One of its features is to display the Battery Wear measured by comparing current battery Full Charge Capacity to Designed Capacity.

As you can see on this screenshot, my battery is at 6.8% wear -- which is more than I like after 11 months, but not nearly as bad as it could be

 

Cool! that should help ease my mind a bit lol
So there hasn't been much info on the Samsung Ativ Book 8...which I find odd because I think its a great laptop compared with others...what do you guys think...

 

The Book 8 is a rebrand, with a few small changes such as the one you have found, of the 2013 Series 7 Chronos is is discussed at length in this thread and this thread.

John

 

Hmm interesting. Just so you all know, I installed the .55 version on my NP780Z5E (Best Buy's version) and I can still see the BLE option under Power Management. And also, it didn't help with manual control of keyboard backlight, but everything seems to work normally.

 

Dannemand found that BLE (and a number of other functions) disappeared upon installation of the Windows 8.1 preview.

The OP for this thread has the NP880Z5E which, while it is basically the same platform as the NP780Z5E, might have a different BIOS with some changed features. It is also possible that the OP had installed the Windows 8.1 preview but didn't mention it.

John

 

I think Samsung really did take BLE out in ATIV Book 8s and replace it with a new and fancier scheme which doesn't have user controls. Another member in the Owners Lounge reported the same thing here.

Both the OP and this member report that they couldn't find BLE in BIOS nor in Settings.

I put Win8 back last night where I am still using Settings 2.0.0.49. But I'll try and update to 2.0.0.55 tonight. I would be surprised if BLE isn't still there: If it's in BIOS, it's also in Settings -- and vice versa. That's my current take anyway

Edit: Just replaced my Settings 2.0.0.49 with 2.0.0.55. Everything is still there, including BLE. It seems like Settings still displays BLE as long as it is supported in the BIOS.

 

Hi Dannemand! Did you update your BIOS or do you have the stock one?

To the ATIV 8 owner's: you who don't have BLE, do you find the "Battery Life Plus" somewhere in your pc? Do you even notice a 30% difference in battery life between your experience and the Chronos' ones reported here on the forum?

Sent from HTC HD2 with Tapatalk

 

Hi alfling,

Yes, I did update my BIOS a few times, but it's been long time since a new BIOS was released for mine. My model is NP700Z3A, a 14 inch Series 7 from last summer (the original Z3A was actually from 2011 or early 2012). When I updated, I used John's advice to run the BIOS Updater by itself (outside of SW Update).

 

Ah ok, I thought you had the 2013 model

Sent from HTC HD2 with Tapatalk

 

Unfortunately no. I could definitely use one to replace my aging HP HDX18 as my main work machine; but I am not quite ready to spend the money.

My little Samsung Z3A (which is officially my wife's ) is for when I go to meetings, coffee shops, work outside (I'm in Florida) or need to write a lot -- it has an excellent matte screen and the best (and best looking) laptop keyboard I ever used.

 

hey guys just saw this thread today...

my 870z5e-z01pt also doesn't have the BLE feature in settings software (.49) - running a manual search says this is the latest version; gonna try and find the .55 to see if it helps, but i highly doubt it as my bios (no update whatsoever in sw update) does not have any other option beasides the calibration one..

any ativ book 8 owner, ie, 870 or 880 has the BLE or "smart charging" as they called it anywhere?! Stupid thing they removed this feature

on a side note, I can't run GPU-Z period. tried all sorts of versions and compat. modes, please 870 or 880 owners, can you run this tool?
best wishes

 

My NP780Z5E has it in the bios as well as in the Settings app. Weird if the series 8 notebooks doesn't have it. Double check the bios - it may need to be enabled there to appear in the Settings app.

BTW , my settings app is 2.0.0.45. Are the rest of you getting the newer version from SW Update under a different model? Thanks

 

hi Shrink,

looked everywhere, there's just that one option to calibrate. indeed i haven't seen anyone yet with either the 8x having the proper bios to support this feature.

on a side note, transferred the battery bar license to my 870 and it doesn't update discharge rate properly - comparing to the discharge rate given by HWinfo64 which seems that is working properly, the battery bar oe, usually stays on a given percentage for minutes on end....does this happens also to the remaining 8X owners?

cheers

 

I purchased my ATIV 8 a month ago and I noticed there were times (twice) the battery icon said "95% available (plugged in, not charging)". Is this the same as BLE??

I don't know how this came up but after shutting it down then turning it back on, it'll charge up to a hundred...

 

No. That's the normal battery charge management without BLE enabled. If the computer is left plugged in after the charging is completed then a top-up charge is not initiated until either the charge level drops several per cent or power is disconnected / reconnected.

BLE limits the maximum charge to 80% which avoids the charge range (90%+) where the charging causes most damage to the battery chemistry.

John

 

Just an update on the BLE issue on the Ativ Book 8 (I also posted this in the owners lounge). The official Samsung statement on the missing BLE is (citing): "The "battery life extender" is not applied to new models from last year October(approx.)
The main reason is no need to restrict the charge limit 80% to extend the battery life - the battery technology is developed so far, no need to such limit. "

 

Thank you for this update! If this claim is realistic, then it's even better!

Sent from HTC HD2 with Tapatalk

 

many thx on the update EddoH

as for the issue itself, I highly doubt that from october on, they devised some new revolutionary technology that was incorporated only in the ativ boob 8's...since the chronos 2013 uses the same 91 Wh battery, it's like, duh? oh really?! lol

most probable "real-life" explanation - hey, we wanted to cut costs a bit, so decided not to pursue updates in the ativ book 8 bios's in this regard; as an added bonus, batteries will last less and maybe we can make a few extra bucks on the all thing (yeah, I know, I'm quite a disbeliever in what big corporation says to end users)

 

No probs, took a lot of emailing and phone calls to get something out of Samsung Support
Note that the Ativ Book 8 battery specs are already much better than the average notebook battery. They advertise with 70% of capacity after 1500 cycles. Which is way better than the average 300/500 cycles.

 

indeed the battery is great!
time will tell if it will live up to what's being advertised

 

I'd be more inclined to accept this strategy on the Book 6 with its low capacity battery which they could arrange to operate in the middle of its potential charge range, but time will tell whether Samsung have been prudent to drop BLE for their higher capacity batteries.

All I can suggest is to keep a printout of their web page with the battery life claim and also run the battery calibration a couple of times when the computer is about 11 months old. If there is significant wear by that tie then ask for a replacement battery.

John

 

That sounds pretty good to me. I've had my laptop for less than a month (pretty light use) and HWInfo says 2.5% wear level on with a cycle count of 7. At this rate my batter will be dead by 11 months at which point I guess I have to send in for replacement before 12 mo warranty is up. I think I may be an extra 3 months of warranty if I register the machine.

Am I doing something wrong here? Any and all advice is welcomed. Thanks ahead of time.

 

What was the wear when the computer was new? Some batteries have a capacity when new which is more than the design capacity and, I suspect, the manufacturers consider it acceptable to use batteries which are a few per cent less than the design capacity (which shows up as wear).

Keep watching the and see if it gets worse. If that happens then run the battery calibration in the BIOS.

John

 

I work for a replacement battery company and we have debated this more than a few times. Capping the charge at 80% is a theoretical exercise, meaning that the real world results for each users are fuzzy at best and heres why. The capacity and service life of a typical battery pack will have a large variation based on the chemistry and design of the anode and cathode inside the cells.

These factors that really dictates how effective this technique will be in prolonging service life of the battery, and most companies buy cells from no less than 20 different cell manufactures leading to a big discrepancy in performance from battery pack to battery pack. Some cells are designed to last 1 year ( 300 charging cycles) and provide very little run time (capacity).

Interestingly, this capping of charge works better for the poor performing batteries and not so much for newer batteries that have very high capacities and last 750-800 charging cycles. This is because better batteries have reduced the stress that occurs when charging that last 20% to full charge so there is less to gain from this technique. The li-poly internal batteries may experience such a minimal benefit from this that it doesn't make sense to do so I would expect this option to not be present on those notebooks.

Currently one of the best cells designs is by Panasonic. They make a NNP cell that provides a lot of power and long service life so capping charge is not really needed. The cells are very expensive, so almost no one uses them except us.

Some examples of these batteries are on our site. A typical 6 cell battery using these cells would rate at 5800mAh and provide 62.6Wh. Note, the price of these batteries are cheaper than OEM, but more expensive than the typical Amazon batteries that use the lower capacity batteries with shorter service life.

I'm guessing that ATIV 6 and 8 use a li-poly chemistry and if true, then capping the charge at 80% will no longer extend the battery life to the extent that giving up 1/5 of capacity makes sense.

 

Very insightful, but I just wanted to ask a question thats probably been answered 100 times over. I picked up an ativ book 8 a few months back and I use it for a high amount of time for work with a few hours in the evening for my netflix needs. I have it on the charger for a majority of the day. Is this a mistake? I know some people tell me to remove the battery but is that the case for the ativ book 8? Whats my best option for extending the battery life of my new laptop? thanks in advance

 

To the best of my knowledge Samsung has dropped BLE with the rebranding of their notebook line to "Ativ Book".

So yes, if you are mainly on AC the best option is to charge the battery to 50% and then remove it.
If that is not possible you better avoid frequent charging / draining cycles and always leave it on AC with a 100% charge.

 

Could that for example damage the hardrive if someone were to unplug it while it doesn't have the battery inside? or theres no real ill effects in general

 

That would be a yes -- same as if you unplugged a desktop computer that doesn't have a battery.

As member oled posted, Samsung stopped providing Battery Life Extender around the same time they switched to the Ativ brand (it being the most significant change on some models other than the new brand). They claimed that improved battery technology in the new models made BLE unnecessary.

I would not completely rule out that they are correct. Or rather: That it's a wash, whether capping the charge at 80% provides enough extension of the battery's health to justify limiting its runtime, compared to whatever improvements they may have made in the batteries and charging logic.

Even on new models without BLE, we generally recommend members to keep the laptop plugged in (again, as member oled posted) rather than constantly charging and discharging -- which will DEFINITELY hurt the battery fast.

 

And, I would add that if you take the battery out then you might find the computer will tend to flip over backwards if you tilt the screen back. The battery location under the palm rest acts as a counterbalance to the display.

John