How to boot to BIOS when Function Buttons are not Showing?

I have a Samsung Series 5 Ultra 13.3inch (2013 model) where an update from Windows 8 to Windows 8.1 has now put my computer into a boot loop.

I've created a boot USB stick with Windows 8 installation on it, but I have tried every key to try and boot into BIOS so that I can change the boot priority to USB or External Optical drive. I've tried the F2 function key as mentioned by many online and the Samsung manual and the F4 function key for Windows recovery but none of works. I've also tried the F10 key to change the boot order during boot up but that doesn't work either.

I've seen in a couple of videos that others have shown where their F2 and F10 options show onscreen on the bottom right underneath the Samsung boot logo.

I'm guessing it's obviously booting up in Fastboot which I'll disable that as soon as I get into the BIOS to change it.

Can anyone help please. Any help is appreciated as I'm desperate to get my Ultrabook up and running as I need it to do training.

Thank you!

 

Hi KcKepz, welcome to NBR.

First make sure you're trying to enter BIOS from a cold start (ie from power off). You can break the boot loop by holding the power button for 5 seconds (or so) to force the computer off. Then start tapping F2 immediately after you power on, and keep tapping it repeatedly about 2-3 times per second. The same is true for F4 to boot Samsung Recovery Solution. Both of them should work, even with Fast Boot/Fast BIOS enabled.

If you still cannot get F2 or F4 to work, try the procedure described by John in this post to reset your CMOS and BIOS tables. After that, try F2 or F4 again.

Another option is to try F8 to get to Windows Advanced Startup options. Again, the best way is to start cold (from power off) then tap F8 repeatedly, starting as soon as anything shows on the screen after power on.

Once you (hopefully) are able to enter BIOS, you need to disable Fast Boot/Fast BIOS (as you say) as well as SecureBoot if you want to boot a Windows installation DVD or USB. If you install from USB, you also need to make sure the flash drive from which you install is formatted as FAT32, NOT as NTFS. Microsoft's ISO/USB creation tool does NOT work. Use Rufus or create it manually. This post in our Windows forum has guidance.

Edit: I deleted your post in the other thread, where you asked this question again after I had responded here. Please don't cross post, it violates NBR forum rules.

 

Thank you Dannemand for your reply.

I'm aware of how the BIOS function keys work and when to press it. I've tried F2 which is to enter BIOS for Samsung PC's. I've tried F4 which is to go into Windows Recovery mode (F8 no longer exists in Windows 8) and F10/ESC (from what I've scoured through the internet) is to change the Boot options during boot up (before Windows boot up screen).

Thank you for John's suggestion to reset the battery, but didn't work for me by poking the battery pin hole. Good suggestion as I've learnt something new with that pin hole.

I've created my USB boot up with a tool I use to install my Linux distros on USB. I then took it over to my desktop to test that boot up to my USB stick works and it does.

I only posted on the other thread because it was active. If I had posted a link to my thread I created, would that have violated NBR forum rules? I apologise.

Now that I've replied to your post, I've done some heavy reading into my problem and what the PC is doing. It's been ages since I've had to rebuild a PC and the new Ultrabooks AND Windows 8 do something new that I'm not aware of.

From what I've read, Windows 8 now controls BIOS with UEFI Secure Boot which secures BIOS and directs managing through Windows 8. That's new to me.... so to mange and make changes to give control back to BIOS, I have to make the change in Windows 8. Here's my problem though.... Windows 8 is in a boot loop which displays an error message at the start of Windows 8 boot up and I can't get into Windows 8 at all to change it from UEFI to BIOS.
My reading is from this link: How to Boot and Install Linux on a UEFI PC With Secure Boot

So because of Secure Boot, I can't get into BIOS and probably never will unless someone can tell me how to override Secure Boot.

My Samsung start up screen looks like this in this video but does not have the F2 and F4 function options at the bottom right of screen like this guy's pc in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peEJwjJ_Uf8

I'm really bummed at the moment as this PC is my main driver.

A thought though, which I'm thinking would probably screw it up even more though.... if I took my slim HDD out and formatted it, will that help in some way?

 

That's good that you know how to press F2 and F4. Many users here have trouble getting the timing right, particularly with Fast Startup enabled in Win8.x (which makes for a very brief window to get the timing right). Others just keep the key pressed down during boot, which will not work.

Win8 does indeed have an Advanced Startup Options screen with several repair options (and not to be confused with Samsung Recovery Solution which is accessed through F4). Through it you can get to UEFI Firmware Settings or you can try to Refresh your current Windows installation.

The problem is getting to Advanced Startup Options, since some brilliant design strategist at Microsoft decided to only make it easily accessible when you already have a working Windows installation ( Charms-Settings-Change PC Settings-General in Win8, Charms-Settings-Change PC Settings-Update and Recovery-Recovery in Win8.1).

The key combination to cold boot into Win8 Advanced Startup Options is Ctrl-F8, although a few members have reported Shift-F8 as working. (Sorry I said F8 earlier, that's only for earlier Windows versions, as you pointed out.) But the window is so narrow it can be almost impossible to hit the right timing, particularly with Fast Boot/Fast BIOS enabled. A few members used it after failed Win8.1 updates (see this and this).

If you have a boot loop, you can also try holding Shift down while it reboots (start pressing it BEFORE the reboot starts). Holding down Shift when selecting Restart is another way to reach Advanced Startup Options from a running Win8, so if yours gets far enough before it reboots, maybe that will work.

If none of those work, and if the CMOS reset didn't work either (which is surprising) I agree that taking out the HDD may be an option. But DON'T format it, except as last resort. Just try if you can get to BIOS settings (F2) without the HDD installed.

If you (hopefully) can get into BIOS, reset BIOS settings to default, then disable Fast BIOS/Fast Boot and SecureBoot, but keep OS Mode Selection=UEFI OS (NOT UEFI & CSM OS). After that, you should be able to boot your Windows install media (by pressing F10 or Esc) ASSUMING the install media is FAT32.

And yes, clean install on UEFI computers (any Win8.x computer, not just Samsung) is quite different from good old Legacy BIOS/CSM machines. The majority of installation issues posted here are caused by that. You can read more about in the posts here and here (including links to must-read Microsoft articles). Since UEFI can only boot FAT32 (not NTFS) it also affects how you create your USB install media, as described in my last post.

 

Thanks again Dannemand.

I've tried EVERYTHING with the F'ing buttons (lol). DAMN YOU F2, F4, F8 and F10 LOL.

OK, I've tried;

I've tried the key combinations, Ctrl+F8 AND Shift+F8 and did nothing for me.

Holding the SHIFT button I was not able to do because my Windows loop at the start of Windows Boot up (I only see the Windows icon at the start for no more than 5 seconds and then I get the new blue screen of death), I don't get far at all.

I'll try boot up without the hdd soon as I can try everything without having to start pulling hardware out

I've formatted a USB as you've suggested in FAT32 and then try as soon as I can find a way to boot to USB. Man this sucks!

 

UPDATE:

I took the hdd out and the PC goes through it's priority boot and checks each media. It boots to USB obviously because there's no hdd and so I managed to run the UEFI option in the Windows Advance Repair from my USB and then was able to disable UEFI and Secure Boot. I then changed the Boot order to boot from USB first and then saved settings and connected my hdd but the damn laptop keeps booting from hdd. I go back to BIOS via the UEFI Config via my USB and find the boot order has gone back to default. However, something I noticed is that USB CD/DVD Media was before hdd and so I go looking through the house for my external CD/DVD reader and burnt a copy of Windows 8.1 to disc and then boot the pc with the USB Disc reader connected to it and with DVD installation disc in there and the PC still boots up to hdd after a failed read from the USB DVD Drive. This is really pee'ing me off...

Later tonight, I'm going to format the hdd but wanted to ask someone this as I can't remember what happens. What does the PC do when hdd is blank but it's the first in the boot order? Does it come back saying no OS installed on hdd and then fail boot or will it try the next media device? (in this case, I'm hoping that it recognises that hdd is blank and then moves down the boot order which will then reach the USB and then FIIIIINALLY boot from USB so that I may reinstall Windows 8.1)

 

Just got up, this'll be a fast one: You should not have disabled UEFI (only SecureBoot). Your Windows installation is UEFI and your disk is GPT, you need OS Mode Selection=UEFI for it to boot.

But great that you managed to get into BIOS.

I think you should just use F4 (which hopefully works now) and restore to factory.

If you begin a new installation from USB, you will run into another issue that we haven't discussed yet with your ExpressCache drive confusing things. Installing from DVD eliminates that issue.

 

While you've only gotten up, I'm about to go to sleep lol. Australia time, sorry but thank you for taking the time out to reply.

Let me change those settings again and then take a few screenshots for you and you tell me if what you see is right. Let me do what I did to get into BIOS and make those changes again.

 

I added some to my post, but you posted before (I'm typing on phone, slow).

 

Just read the rest of your post. I'm guessing you're using an iPhone lol
With SWYPE, I can type faster than I touch type

Anyways... this is what I've got so far in my BIOS config, but my boot order won't stay after I reboot for some reason. I know it's not normal but I'm going to ask the stupid question anyways... is that normal?

 

OK... making changes to those BIOS settings did nothing when I connected my hdd back in. It still boots to Windows (hdd) even though the external DVD is plugged in or boot changed to USB (formatted FAT32).

What are the consequences if I was to format the hdd to blank FAT32 or NTFS, plugged it back in and then booted back up again? I'm hoping that it'll recognise that hdd is blank and then go onto the USB or external DVD. Should I try it after you've exhausted your whole knowledge? lol... because I'm out of ideas.

 

Thanks. It will be another few hours before I can get to it, please don't do anything drastic yet. If you're not going to bed yet, I highly recommend you read those UEFI references I linked. It'll help see the logic of what's happening.

Oh, and yes, I use Swype too on Nexus 5. It's great, but still makes lots of mistakes that I have to correct. "For" always becomes "got", "that" always becomes "rusty" (or "Russert" until I deleted that), "always" always becomes "status" and so forth. It helps to clear Swype's data every month or so, since it gets worse as Swype learns. Still, it's the best keyboard I know, I used it for 3.5 years.

 

Give me an example of drastic...
....I've....

EDIT: Yep, I've screwed it up. I've managed to install the OS on the ExpressCache I think and now that boot loops as well. Now I can't get to BIOS with my USB stick as it just boots straight to the new installation. I'm packing it all up and taking it to Samsung repairer in the new week and hopefully they don't charge me an arm and a leg to get it fixed. Just my luck!!! Not happy Jan.

 

If ExpressCache is messing things up then read this thread.

John

 

I have almost exactly the same issue... so I am not sure of the etiquette here but I do not mean to hijack the thread. It is very similar.

Notebook: Samsung NP540U3C-A03UB
Problem: Cannot boot to BIOS

I have tired all the suggestions in this thread.

I too have no options on the Logo screen to boot to the BIOS. I've tried removing the HDD. Doing a battery reset. It makes no difference.

At the moment, the HDD is unplugged and it still go to the Logo screen and then to a 1 line sentence about all the boot options being tried. Press F4 for recovery or any key to try the boot iteration again.

Seems like there is no way to get to the BIOS on this thing. It was in a Windows 8.1 loop. If I reconnect the HDD, it will just to into that mode.

I've never seen a computer that can boot to anything without a BIOS.

 

Hi John,

Thanks for replying but that thread assumes I can boot into bios but no matter what function key I press, it has no response. It just keeps booting to my Windows.

I was able to reach my bios by unplugging my hdd and then booting from usb but my bios wouldn't save boot order. It wouldn't boot from my DVD.

The new issue I created now is that I've installed Windows 8.1 on my ExpressCache and even then Windows 8.1 crashes at Windows boot up.

Now with hdd unplugged and Windows installed on ExpressCache, it doesn't boot from usb anymore.

 

Your problem is exactly the same. That message is what I got as well when unplugging the hdd but it will boot up from usb if you had one plugged with Windows installation.

Stick around this thread as the 2 moderators support has been good and I'm learning with these new pc's. Keep posting what you're doing as well so we tick off what works and what doesn't and hopefully have a thread that will help others with the same issue.

 

@KcKepz: I finally have some time and got to read up on this.

Because all booting in UEFI mode goes through the EFI boot partition on the HDD (it doesn't use the Boot Device Priority the same as in Legacy BIOS mode) my goal was to get to the Windows Advanced Startup options, so that you can could use the Repair features there -- in particular the Refresh feature which should undo the entire Win8.1 update.

But since none of the F-keys worked to get you to Advanced Startup Options, and Windows never booted far enough to use the Charms menu or Shift-Restart to invoke it, taking out the HDD was a good approach to force BIOS to do a regular boot, so that you could reach BIOS settings. You did good with that!

The ideal would have been if resetting BIOS settings would snap BIOS/UEFI out of it, and let you boot Samsung Recovery Solution (F4) after putting the HDD back in. SRS is self-contained, and should work regardless of how messed up Windows has become -- as long as F4 works. Then you could do a factory restore from SRS with Partition setting enabled, which will re-create the boot partitions and the factory Windows installation.

You said you have formatted the HDD now. If you only formatted the Windows partition, and still have the Recovery partitions intact, it is still worth trying this (F4 to boot SRS).

If the entire HDD has been wiped, that gives us some freedom, since we no longer have to worry about preserving your Recovery -- it is already gone. Unfortunately, it also means Windows clean install is the only option now -- and clean install from USB on models with ExpressCache is difficult.

With Fast BIOS Mode and SecureBoot disabled in BIOS, You definitely should be able to boot other devices by pressing F10 at boot -- assuming those devices are of the correct format, and BIOS has had a chance to detect them (F2). How exactly did you create the USB (manually or using Rufus or another tool)? Check on another PC that it is indeed FAT32, not NTFS.

OTOH, to simplify things and get you out of all this frustration, I think I would suggest you leave UEFI behind, convert the HDD to MBR and re-install Windows in Legacy BIOS mode. You will miss the few minor benefits of UEFI, but it will work as any good old Win7 PC (still fully compatible with Win8 and 8.1). This guide (post #40 in that thread) has details of how to convert the HDD to MBR, exact BIOS settings and installation procedure. It's mostly for Win7, but has comments where Win8 is different. In your case, you should convert the iSSD (ExpressCache) to MBR as well. And I highly recommend you install from DVD instead of USB to save yourself the ExpressCache headache.

If you MUST install from USB, you will have to use one of the workarounds in posts #1 and #2 in that same thread ( here, the same linked by John).

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Keep us posted

 

Hi mda1125, welcome to NBR.

You are perfectly welcome to post here, that's what forum threads are for: Several people exchanging ideas on a topic, hopefully gathering useful information for posterity.

Can you confirm that your model also came with Win8 pre-installed? I am pretty sure it did, but some 2013 models were originally Win7 models, then updated to Win8. It tells us which Recovery version you have and whether your computer runs UEFI mode.

I think your situation is different from that of member KcKepz, if you say you cannot get into BIOS (F2) even after taking out the HDD.

As I described to KcKepz just above, getting to Recovery (F4) is ideal, since it works independently of the messed up Windows installation and allows you to restore to factory. AND (importantly) Recovery works even with SecureBoot enabled in BIOS, which you cannot disable as long as F2 isn't working for you. But F4 will not work when the disk is out, since it relies on the Recovery partitions on the disk (and on a hidden link in its partition table).

If you already tried everything mentioned in this thread, as well as the CMOS/BIOS reset (unplugging power, poking the battery pinhole button, then keeping the power button pressed for a minute), AND removing the disk, then you may have no choice but to contact Samsung for repair service.

If you have a situation where (A) you cannot get into F4 Recovery, and (B) your Windows installation will not boot, and (C) Fast BIOS Mode and/or SecureBoot are enabled in BIOS, and (D) you cannot get into F2 BIOS settings to change them -- then you effectively have a bricked computer, even though it isn't dead "electrically".

You could try to perform a repair of the Windows installation by connecting it to another computer, but it probably won't work when the disk gets back in the Samsung, since (with SecureBoot enabled) it will only boot an OS with a signed certificate in the BIOS. This is supposed to be a security feature, but can actually lock you out entirely. Microsoft never thought that their software would fail to work, so this scenario never occurred to them

Although drastic, I suppose you could also try formatting the EFI boot partition of the disk on another computer and see if that will make BIOS snap out of it when you put the disk back. But you may find that it cannot boot anything, period, until you can get into BIOS and change those settings.

I wish I had better news for you

Edit: I just re-read KcKepz's response to you.

@KcKepz: Are you saying that you were able to boot your USB once you removed the disk, BEFORE you even disabled SecureBoot and Fast BIOS Mode? That wasn't how I understood you -- but if true that's great, because it means there is hope for mda1125's computer as well then.

 

I'll respond when I get home. Just at a funeral and member mda, our issues are exactly the same. I'll respond soon.

 

It didn't matter what I did in the BIOS, the F-keys would not work even when I had to F10 to save BIOS changes and then restarting my PC. It'll always try and boot to hdd (which I disconnected but manage to boot to USB.

Definitely have a clean, unallocated GPT formatted hdd. But because I installed the Windows 8.1 update (which I'm thinking) on the ExpressCache I can't boot to anything else now where I'm thinking I have to remove the ExpressCache now.

F10 or any other F-key does not work still. I created the USB by formatting it FAT32 and then copying all the installation files from an ISO. I'm now redoing my USB again with Rufus 1.4.9 tool.

I'll try once more with redoing my USB and then I'll try and do a clean install of Windows 8.1 with hdd in MBR.

Provided I can get past my install which I'm sure is installed on ExpressCache, then I have confidence that I'm not doomed. Cross your toes as well please. I'm not sleeping tonight until I can resolve this issue.

 

UPDATE

I've burnt another copy of Windows 8.1 on DVD and it doesn't boot with my external DVD drive. Nothing wrong with my external as I can load the disc and external with my old laptop. Something to do with the PC because it does wait at BIOS/Samsung logo boot up as if it's waiting for 'Press any key to boot from DVD' like it says with the old traditional BIOS boot up. However, after a few seconds of false hope it then boots to my corrupted Windows installation.

With the hdd unplugged, I still get the following Windows boot up issue as I think it's now booting from ExpressCache which I really need to wipe or else I can't boot to anything else now.

Still no F-key's working.

Getting desperate ....

 

I see. I thought you were still able to get into BIOS (F2) like you were before -- in which case you could always just disable UEFI and go old school on it.

But unfortunately, I think you are right: As long as BIOS was looking for an EFI boot partition on the HDD, you had the option of unplugging the HDD. But once the disk was wiped and Windows put a new EFI boot partition on the iSSD, you no longer have that option.

What is puzzling is why you lost the ability to get into BIOS -- after you had gotten it back. Getting in there is the only thing I can see that will get you back on track.

All I can think of now are to try the CMOS/Battery reset again. Go through our UEFI bricking thread and look for hints. I't been awhile, so I don't remember it in detail. Maybe leave let it for several hours after unplugging power, disconnecting the battery and pressing the power button for a minute.

If none of that works, I think you will have to contact Samsung for help. Back in those bricking days, they helped many, including a few who were out of warranty. Make sure you stress to them that you performed a regular Windows 8.1 update. Telling them that you took out the disk and wiped it is probably not conducive to them helping you.

Of course that goes for both you and member mda1125, because as you said, it sounds like you are now in the same situation.

I'll be very interested to hear the outcome.

 

This is what happens to my boot up and I can't bypass it anymore now that I've installed OS, I'm sure, on the ExpressCache.

 

Nah, I was never able to F2. I was only able to get through to BIOS via my USB and selecting Repair Installation after choosing language. But that was going via UEFI Firmware Settings like in the following image;



I'll give CMOS/Battery reset as I've never tried that... I think... and then go through some other helpful info you and John have posted. Hopefully I'll be able to find something that will help. I'm doing a Leadership training tomorrow and I was relying on this Ultrabook to do my presentation/training but now I have to pull out the old school, noisy as M4300 Dell Precision to do my training unless I can get it fixed tonight without sleeping :/

I'll keep trying and keep you guys posted. If I have more questions, I hope you guys don't mind answering. Once I have this fixed, I'm writing a how to post and a what not to do post for anyone with future issues.... lets hope I just get it fixed without having to go through Samsung repair center as they might hit me up to pay for a new laptop with their ridiculous repair charges.

 

How do I do the CMOS battery thingy on the ultrabook? Is that the battery pin hole at the bottom of the laptop? what does that do exactly?

 

Thank you for the updated information and the video.

I see, so it was through the Advanced Start Options you were able change the BIOS options. I thought you had managed to unstick the F-keys during boot.

I may have given you bad advice then: In hindsight, it would have been better to use the small window of opportunity, while you were able to boot the USB, to re-flash your BIOS. That is usually the surest way to clean out gremlins. But it requires some form of Windows, such as a WinPE USB stick or a working Windows installation.

You disabled UEFI when you had the chance, but I told you to re-enable it (in the hope of getting F4 Recovery going). Once you proceeded to format the disk and re-install from USB, that closed the door to a fix. But had you still been in CSM mode (and Fast BIOS disabled) we would still have some options. I apologize for that.

It is the procedure I linked in my first reply ( here). The pinhole switch merely disconnects the battery, but doesn't flush any residual power in the system. Pressing the power button for a minute should do that, but there is an additional suggestion to leave the laptop for 48 hours after following those steps (unplugged, of course).

This procedure may help if the laptop is stuck in S4 (hibernation). But if the NVRAM (used by BIOS) has become messed up, a re-flash may be the only way to fix that.

Since you have a presentation tomorrow, I would suggest you perform that reset procedure, then leave the laptop unplugged and get going on your backup computer. Think about your presentation for the next day. I'll be here when you get back -- though I may not be able help much more.

 

Not your fault... should I had posted my images and made my posts clearer, then maybe you would have then suggested just that you've now suggested. All good my friend... with the time difference and the opportunity I had to sit down and work on it, you were asleep. Here in Australia, we were awake and ready lol.

EDIT: Yes I have tried this, but you're right though... we missed that part to completely drain the battery right? I'm draining it now by just letting it boot loop till it's tired of doing it. I've disconnected the hdd though so I don't damage it for any reason during boot loop. Now everything else now should be just chips.

Well... if I just let it drain by letting it reboot over and over, that should surely drain the battery faster and once it's totally drained, then I'll just pin hole the battery and do what you've suggested. I'm staying up all night anyways to finish off reports for this presentation so it's not totally useless. I will however disconnect the hdd so it's not always shutting off abruptly when it crashes and plug in my some USB's and my external DVD reader to drain it quicker. How's that sound?

Again... thank you for sticking with me. A good moderator you are.

EDIT: Does this draining thing and then sticking a pin through the battery reset really flashes the BIOS or CMOS? I know for a desktop by flashing it with a jumper works but never know how to do it with today's laptops. Man I'm getting old...

 

Thank you. Yes the time difference didn't make this easier.

And no, no, you don't need to drain the battery that way: When you poke the pinhole button with an unbent paperclip, that should disconnect the battery (you hear or feel a small click). Just don't poke too hard that can damage it. You can also take off the bottom cover and physically remove the battery. In either case, unplug the power adapter first (of course). Once the battery is disconnected (or physically removed) press the power button for a minute, then leave it for as long as possible after that, ideally 48 hours.

This won't re-flash the BIOS, but sometimes it will clear CMOS and the BIOS data tables, getting BIOS back to factory state. Unfortunately, on Win8 models that means re-enabling SecureBoot and Fast BIOS Mode -- making booting of external devices more difficult. But in some cases it has also allowed F2 to work again, so you can get back in and change those BIOS settings. That's the holy grail, that's what we need.

In order to re-flash the BIOS, you need a copy of the latest BIOS update file AND a running Windows to flash it. And that last bit is the problem in your case...

Once you have a running Windows (or a WinPE USB you can boot) our BIOS Rollback thread has advice. I have not tried this myself, I understand it is tricky. I recommend you read the entire thread before you start. You will see a utility posted halfway through to help locate previous BIOS versions.

There is also our Bricking thread which I mentioned earlier. Once again, I suggest you read the entire thread before trying anything suggested in it.

I have a few more NBR matters to attend to, then have to leave for the rest of the day. Again, I suggest you do that CMOS reset, then let it rest for now. It's our best chance at this point.

@mda1125: The same essentially goes for you, as we already discussed.

 

Cheers for the reply again. I'm going to accept defeat and not worry about this as time for my presentation is nearer.

Something I've noticed when booting up with DVD. Screen does pause as if it's waiting for the DVD to kick in but then it doesn't. Then a thought popped in my head, whether my disc is UEFI bootable as I've read in other posts or websites. So I've tried reading as to how to create a UEFI boot disc incase my disc I've been trying isn't UEFI bootable. You or anyone else have a thought on this? To me it does look like USB DVD reader takes priority in boot order but it's failing and then goes to my corrupted Windows instead. Thoughts and how to's to create a UEFI bootable DVD? Obviously my USB booted up correctly because I formatted it properly with FAT32 and UEFI bootable so I think there's no issues with USB when I can get to it.

EDIT: I've done the battery reset now and I'm leaving it till Tuesday.

 

You shall not hear from me until you're done with your presentation. I hope it goes well

 

Meeting went very well. I had to fill in alot of gaps by talking more as we waited for my ancient laptop to catch up. Damn Series 5...I need it yesterday

Thanks Dannemand for keeping in touch with my issue. I've got the laptop draining after poking the battery pin hole.

Did you read my last reply regarding burning a UEFI DVD? I've just been burning the iso's as they are but I read on another thread the other night that UEFI discs need to be formatted and burnt in UEFI format to boot to disc properly. It makes sense to me as I mentioned, the external drive hangs for a bit as if it cannot read the disc and so it passes as if it failed to boot from disc.

 

Ah typical, I just went to bed. So another fast Swypeee...

Glad to hear the meeting went well. Good on that.

Yes, I did read your last post, and it gave rise to a question, but I didn't want to distract you till you were done with that presentation ("rusty Iranian" as Swype would say instead of "that presentation").

I thought you were unable to boot anything at the moment, and it would only try to boot your iSSD (and fail). Did I misunderstand that?

If indeed you're able to boot USB or DVD (by pressing F10 or because it times out waiting for the iSSD) then that opens up some possibilities.

The USB must be FAT32 as you know, and you already had that working. But just installing Windows from it is futile, since it will just put the boot partition on the iSSD again. Instead, I would look into creating a WinPE USB and use that to re-flash your BIOS as previously discussed.

Any proper Win8 or 8.1 DVD should boot in UEFI mode (under normal circumstances) and should allow you to create a working installation that will boot from the HDD. Then you can use that to re-flash your BIOS.

BUT I've heard that the ISO downloaded by Microsoft's Win8 update tool is flawed and not UEFI compliant. So if that's what you have, it may not boot. It can probably be fixed by adding the actual boot files (from the EFI folder) to the boot image (the bootable section of a DVD). But I never tried that myself, so you'd be better off looking for guides elsewhere.

Remember, the goal is to get into BIOS again and get your boot keys back. Even if you find a way to disable UEFI, it may not help if you cannot select a boot device. And unless the pinhole+waiting procedure unsticks it, re-flashing is the only fix I can think of.

Someone mentioned in one of these bricking or boot-problem threads that the BIOS flasher (NOT SW Update, the actual flasher) has options to reset NVRAM (non-volatile RAM). That's what we want.

That's all I can offer from bed. Good luck the next 8 hours or so.

 

Goodnight lol.

Definitely no F-key options including F10. The only reason I was able to boot to bios was because the hdd was unplugged and usb was next in the boot order. The bios wouldn't save changes to boot order but the default boot order has usb external DVD before hdd or iSSD. So to fix it, I need something that can boot from disc. Can a WinPE be bootable from a disc? As previously mentioned, it waits for a bootable disc and the Win8.1 ISO's I've burnt are just torrent ones I found on the web. I've downloaded a torrent Win7 as well which I'll use after the battery reset.

I hope this is clear and makes sense.

Cheers!

 

Alright mate, so final stab at this. Yes, what you write is clear. The chances we have here are:

A) If the CMOS reset procedure has unstuck your F-keys. It's a slim chance, but not unheard of, and would be marvelous. That's the cause of this entire issue, and ultimately what is needed to get it fixed. If that should be the case, you don't have to re-flash the BIOS, and can proceed to install Windows as usual. As always, installing from DVD is best to avoid the iSSD issue.
If you have to install from USB, you need to use one of the workarounds here in posts #1 or #2. It will be easier (and safer) to do so in CSM mode, which requires converting the disk to MBR (as described here in post #40).

B) If the CMOS reset procedure has restored boot priority to the DVD, but still no F-keys. I am more skeptical of that, but IF it should be the case, priority should be to re-flash the BIOS and/or clear the NVRAM. In order to do that, you could look into creating a WinPE disc (I've never tried it, Google is your best friend). OR you could proceed to install Windows on the HDD, which should work (though I can understand if you've become a bit gun shy).

In either case must the disc you create be UEFI compatible. A "proper" Win8 or Win8.1 DVD really should work with UEFI. I DO remember having problems myself booting Win7 discs in UEFI mode. And I have heard that Win8 ISOs downloaded with Microsoft's Win8 updater are not UEFI compatible. That should be fixable by creating a new DVD with the boot files from the EFI folder added to its boot image. But again, I don't have exact steps, so you will have to Google this.

Once you have a running Windows or WinPE, study our BIOS roll back thread carefully. If you are NOT already on the latest BIOS version for your model (which, BTW is a common cause of Win8.1 update problems) then DON'T just install it with SW Update! Instead, download and run the the BIOS Update Utility from here and use it to save the latest BIOS update file for your model. That process is described in the opening post of our BIOS Update thread. If you already have the latest BIOS, Samsung won't give it to you again. You may have to roll back to an earlier BIOS, then update again (some members have fixed serious issues this way). You can use the utility in this post (in the BIOS rollback thread) to search for the necessary BIOS versions for your model.
Again, it is a tricky process, but several members have succeeded. Also look into whether there is a command line parameter on the updater to clear NVRAM -- since that's what you really need.

C) If you still have no F-keys and cannot boot anything after the reset procedure, I am afraid we are at the end of the road, and the computer must be considered bricked. Samsung service has had hundreds or thousands of such cases, and will most likely help you if you still have warranty and explain how a simple Win8.1 update bricked the computer. If you are out of warranty, they will probably charge you -- though it's still worth a try to plead your case that you were simply updating to Win8.1.

I should add that we normally refer to Samsung service right away when a member cannot enter BIOS and it doesn't resolve with that CMOS reset procedure. Even the BIOS re-flashing is only for the most daring. You have demonstrated exceptional tenacity in trying to crack this, but sometimes there is just nothing more you can do on your own.

I have my fingers and toes crossed for you. Happy thoughts

 

WOW... after all that, I'm going to say thank you and soon will suit up to give it another crack at it. 2:40am AEST, I'm gonna go back to sleep to make sure I've had sufficient rest to take the challenge. It is going to be a hectic day.

Thanks again! Goodnight for now until a few more hours.

 

While you're getting a few hours of well-deserved sleep... I keep thinking about this case, and I cannot help wondering: Since the iSSD (where Windows Setup presumably placed your EFI system partition) is really not bootable, I wonder if the current hangup is more that BIOS simply cannot find an EFI partition on the HDD, and just keeps looking in the hope of finally finding EFI boot files on either the HDD or an external device.

If that is the case, getting an EFI system partition onto the HDD really should break the gridlock. As I previously mentioned to member mda1125, simply creating an UEFI Win8 installation on the HDD from another computer may not work if it doesn't match the signed SecureBoot certificates on your Sammy. But it's worth a try, particularly since I recall you disabled SecureBoot before you wiped the disk. And in any case will it put an EFI system partition on the HDD which should get you one step further in the boot process.

So it's one more thing to try. Again, with the goal of getting Windows running so you can re-flash your BIOS and/or clear NVRAM.

There is also Linux. I have no Linux experience beyond simple LiveCD/LiveUSB (which are great). But if you can boot one of those (or install it on the HDD using another computer) that is one more option.

One thing this case has made crystal clear is how important it is NOT to wipe the HDD on UEFI machines with ExpressCache, particularly not on late 2012/early 2013 models that are prone to bricking. I am sorry, I don't mean to rub this in, it's really more for others who may come here from a Google search: Once you're blocked out from BIOS settings, you only have one shot at a good installation. If that shot ends up putting the EFI system partition on the iSSD (by running WIndows Setup from a USB stick), it may require serious surgery to fix -- if it's even possible at all.

 

Mode Code: NP540U3C-A03UB

It came with Windows 8.

I've tried a bootable USB with Linux Mint on it. It booted with an older Dell laptop. So it does work.
This setup seems to want to go right to the HDD and never anything else. Since I can't get to the BIOS, I can't tell it to boot elsewhere.

I'd love the F4 option but when the HDD is in, my computer goes into that Windows 8.1 broken loop.

It may be bricked. I got this from a neighbor who's moving. I figured, I'd just get a new HDD or format this one but so far, if you can't get into the BIOS, it's not in any condition to be used in any capacity.

 

Are you saying you've taken the hdd out mda1125? If you haven't tried it, then I suggest you put Win8.1 installation onto a usb (go through previous post by dammenand which explains how your usb should be set up). Take out the back panel of your lappy and disconnect your hdd (no need to unscrew it and remove it, just disconnect it). Stick the usb in and then boot lappy up which then should boot to usb. Go through Repair > Troubleshoot > UEFI Configuration which will ask to boot. You will then get to bios that way but won't let you save the boot order if you decide to change. However, external DVD is before hdd and ssd.

DO NOT INSTALL IT WITH THE HDD DISCONNECTED OR DO NOT INSTALL IT ON DISC 0 WHICH WILL SHOW UP IN CUSTOM INSTALL GOING THROUGH WIZARD. You'll be in the same hole as I'm in if you do that.

I'm up early and I'm ready to do this. I've left the battery reset now for a good 48hrs.

Skipping brekky, family is still asleep, so let's DO THIS!

 

UPDATE:

Battery reset did not work. CMOS did not reset.

Now working on WinPE disc.

 

Darn, sorry to hear that. We knew it was a long shot and a lot of time to wait, but I think it was worth the try: If it would have done it, you'd be completely back in business now -- and with hardly any risk.

 

All good...going down the to do list. One of them is bound to work.

 

Another possible option (sorry to keep throwing them at you): I got to think whether good old EasyBCD (a great tool for managing Windows boot menus) could be used in some way. It turns out the vendor (NeoSmart) has another, self-booting tool called EasyRe meant for repair -- and they claim to support UEFI/GPT installations. Check this:

https://neosmart.net/EasyRE/Features/AutoRepair

It's just a thought. I am sure it won't clear your BIOS. But if you can get a working Windows installation onto the computer, at least it's not just a brick.

 

Thanks...I will try everything. I'm up to B now, trying WinPE. I'm downloading Windows Assessment and Deployment Kit now. I'll keep everyone posted.

 

This thing is bricked. There's simply no way to get to the BIOS. So booting to anything other than the defunct hard drive is not possible.

I created a bootable Windows USB (tested it on another computer and it was fine).

Flat out taking this baby to e-waste. If you can't get to the BIOS, it's dead. And it's way out of warranty. Given that you can buy working ones on eBay for $399, there's no reason to waste the money sending this back to a Samsung authorized service facility.

Thanks for the help. Really appreciate it.

 

Have you tried what I suggested? You can get to the bios with my suggestion.

 

@Dannemand if I bought a new HDD for this pc, do I need to format it in any particular format? Or can I just put in an unallocated hdd and install as normal?

 

I am puzzled why you would do that. Do you have reason to think the current HDD is defect?

Whether it's a new HDD or your current one, you need to make sure it has GPT partition style (not MBR) if you want to install in UEFI mode. You can use DISKPART (from Command Prompt in Windows or Windows Setup) with the following commands:

You can also use Minitool Partition Wizard (great tool, and free) or even Windows Disk Management. The disk must be blank when you Windows Setup, then it should create the necessary partitions.

 

My Linux couldn't install to it saying it could be damaged. I get errors trying to read it in my Linux machine.

Makes a funny noise as well when I've got it the right way up but seems to stop when I have it upside down.



I might take it to a computer store to test a new HDD and if it gets everything working I'll buy it and confirm this thread solved. If it doesn't, we're still in the same boat lol.

 

Wow, good thing you caught that. Didn't see that coming.

I am sure you can also use Linux Gparted to initialize the drive as GPT. Maybe even put an EFI system partition on it with something bootable.