How to install Windows on the SSD of Samsung Series 5 Ultrabook

Hi! I'm sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place.

I recently bought a Samsung Series 5 Ultrabook, specifically the NP530U4C, and I saw that it has a 24gb SSD, but it isn't being used for anything so I would like to install Windows on it (I want to change the OS to Win10 anyway, so I don't mind erasing the current one since I don't have anything on it).

I already have some knowledge on how to install a new OS (went to and from Ubuntu a couple of times). I did the same as the other times and went to the BIOS to see the bootable devices, but I couldn't see the SSD anywhere. Even if I can install WIN10 on it if I cannot make it boot from it is of no use. I checked the state of the SSD and it is healthy and totally empty.

BTW, the laptop seems to run too hot while doing ordinary things like word processing and internet browsing. Any suggestion on how to make the fan spin faster or cool it in any other way?

If there are other people with the same laptop, how is your experience so far? Can you game on it?

Thanks!

 

I am going to move your thread over to the Samsung forum. I noticed they also have a thread on your model too.

 

Hi @aquesi, welcome to NBR.

The 24GB SSD you see (a so-called iSSD, because it is integrated on the motherboard) is to be used for caching the regular HDD. This is accomplished by installing ExpressCache software available from Samsung SW Update (where you get all the latest drivers for Samsung laptops).

Without the ExpressCache software, it is just a regular SSD -- except it is NOT visible to BIOS and thus not bootable. It only becomes visible to an OS after boot.

If you want to install an OS on it, you will have to boot from the regular HDD, then have the boot manager load the OS on the iSSD. Not many have succeeded doing it. I would definitely attempt it myself if my iSSD were 24GB (it is only 8GB on my model).

The latest discussion about this is linked below. In this case the member gave up, but there are links in that thread to successful attempts.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/is-it-possible-to-boot-from-an-issd-samsung-ativbook.784998/

Below is a link to a thread where I give my (theoretical) suggestion for the process required for such an installation. But note that it is based on BIOS (CSM) installation, not UEFI installation.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/install-windows-to-issd.757458/#post-9722063

I would be very cautious about trying to do this in UEFI mode: Samsung laptops of that generation have been known to brick easily in UEFI mode due to NVRAM corruption.

Also be aware that installation of Windows 7 or 8.x will conflict with the iSSD if you install from a USB flash drive, causing a boot failure. There are workarounds (see posts #1 and #2 of this thread) but the simplest is just to always install Windows from DVD on models with iSSD. I believe this has been solved i Win10.

 

Sorry about that.

 

Hello @ Dannemand

Thanks for the detailed reply! Now that I have a better idea of the process, I think I'll pass on it (changing OS to SSD), since having the iSSD used for ExpressCaching already boosts performance somehow.

Unfortunatelly I'm not experienced enough to do those sort of things and I don't want to brick a newly bought device.

Thank you for your help!

 

@aquesi,

You are absolutely right about ExpressCache giving a nice performance boost. I have an NP700Z3A and often thought it's time to replace its 750GB 7200rpm HDD with a real SSD -- but ExpressCache makes its performance so completely acceptable that I never got around to do it. I guess my need for speed has never overcome the dread of taking the bottom off my laptop (which is known to be a pain on my model).

Another benefit of keeping ExpressCache is that it improves performance of the entire drive. If you were to install Windows on the iSSD, loading Windows will surely be faster, but reading and writing data files will be slower.

 

@Dannemand

Thanks for the explanation. I finished updating to WIN10 and installing the drivers (I'm probably missing some though) this morning and I have noticed that speed has been reduced a bit. It's nothing groundbreaking but it certainly is noticable. Do you know how I can check if the iSSD is still being used for ExpressCache and not just being there for no reason after updating?

 

You can use ECCmd -INFO to check if ExpressCache is running and caching correctly, as described in the post here (that was a link). This is what the output looks like on mine, with ExpressCache humming as it should on my 8GB iSSD:

Spoiler

Code:

ExpressCache Command Version 1.0.98.0
Copyright⌐ 2010-2012 Condusiv Technologies.
Date Time: 2/3/2016 8:51:57:421 (SAMMY8 #190)

EC Cache Info
==================================================

Mounted                   : Yes
Partition Size            : 7.46 GB
Reserved Size             : 3.00 MB
Volume Size               : 7.46 GB
Total Used Size           : 6.52 GB
Total Free Space          : 963.13 MB
Used Data Size            : 6.45 GB
Used Data Size on Disk    : 6.52 GB

Tiered Cache Stats
==================================================
Memory in use             : 1024.00 MB
Blocks in use             : 8188
Read Percent              : 0.00%


Cache Stats
==================================================
Cache Volume Drive Number : 1
Total Read Count          : 161918
Total Read Size           : 10.26 GB
Total Cache Read Count    : 0
Total Cache Read Size     : 0 Bytes
Total Write Count         : 38576
Total Write Size          : 1.29 GB
Total Cache Write Count   : 16487
Total Cache Write Size    : 265.65 MB

Cache Read Percent        : 0.00%
Cache Write Percent       : 20.09%

I do indeed remember several members reporting problems getting ExpressCache working in Win10, with no updated version available from Samsung, and newer versions from other vendors not being compatible with Samsung hardware. I am still running Win8.1 so I cannot speak to that.

There is much more Win10 discussion in the sticky thread linked below:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/windows-10-on-samsung-notebooks.778806/

 

@Dannemand

For some reason it closes before it can even open. I'll check in the post you embedded if I can finds any solution to it.

 

I think the problem is indeed that the EC software is incompatible with Win10. I should have warned you about that before your Win10 update, as I do remember others reporting issues with it.

Make sure you have at least EC version 1.0.94 -- later if you can find it. Beyond that I am afraid I don't know what to recommend. Again, I haven't made the jump to Win10 myself yet.

Edit: Check this page on answers.microsoft.com, specifically the following post, although there are other seemingly useful posts in that thread as well

That thread is for Asus laptops, and I would not expect Asus-provided EC software to work on Sammies. But some of the workarounds might work. Please post your findings. Also, make sure you check the Win10 thread I linked previously, as other Samsung owners may have posted experiences that I overlooked.

 

@Dannemand

I've tried two solutions that were suggested on that page. The first is to download EC for Win10 (there is a link there) and the one you quoted is the second one I tried. None of them have worked.

The issue remains the same. The installation process goes smoothly but then after rebooting and using the command you told me to or going to the actual file and opening it manually it closes before I can even see it.

I'll keep on trying other things tomorrow. BTW, I couldn't find the version of EC you mentioned anywhere. The closes I got was 1.0.8XX

Thanks for your help, it is truly appreciated.

 

ECCmd is a command line tool, so you have to open a Command Prompt to run it, otherwise it'll close before you can see its output. And it has to be an Administrator Command Prompt:

1) Right-click lower-left screen corner and select Command Prompt (Admin) from the menu.

2) Enter cd C:\Program Files\Condusiv Technologies\ExpressCache to change to the folder where ECCmd is location.

3) Enter ECCmd -INFO to get status.

To find EC version 1.0.98, use Samsung Update (SW Update), use Find Model and enter model NP540U4E-K04US (other models may have it too, this is just where I found it). It is under Win8 drivers (not Win8.1, strangely). I just checked now to verify.

 

@Dannemand

I did as you instructed and I got this:

NB: The folder that EC got installed in is named differently in my case.

I'll try to get the newer version now and see if the same thing happens.

 

Thank you for the update.

That error message is what you would get if your version of EC is one from a different vendor. They licence EC to different laptop makers, and it has to come from Samsung.

Indeed, get the newer version from Samsung SW Update, then try the installation trick described in the post I quoted.

 

@Dannemand

The UAC blocks it... "This app has been blocked for your protection." it says.

I don't understand why there is so much trouble with this laptop and Win10. My previous laptop (Thinkpad LP540) updated and ran perfectly and all the drivers for win8 worked on Win10.

I've tried to lower the protection of UAC from the user account settings but it still won't let me use any Samsung apps.

 

Is that if you run the regular installer or use the installation workaround I quoted earlier?

Also, did you check the stickied Win10 discussion thread? I'm guessing it has discussions of it.

I'd try running the installer as Administrator and/or in Win8 compatibility mode.

Samsung stopped providing ExpressCache three years ago (starting with the 2013 models) precisely because there are too many support problems and compatibility issues. All we can do here is facilitate discussion among owners about solutions.

 

@Dannemand

Sorry for not being more specific earlier. The SW Updae app is already installed from before updating to Win10, so I opened the .exe for the app. In case you are wondering, it is not because it was there before Win10, because I have also downloaded some Samsung software (Battery, recovery, etc) afterwards and the installer didn't run either.

I'll look for a way to disable that UAC blocking and get back to you after trying the SW Update method to install EC.

 

Don't use SW Update to install EC, only use its Find Model feature to locate and download the newer 1.0.98 version as described previously. Then install that version standalone. Run the installer as Administrator and/or Win8 Compatibility mode. And if that still fails, try the workaround described in that previous quote (extracting the MSI instead of running the EXE).

 

I give up on this, I'm going back to Win7, since this laptop obviously wasn't made for Win10. I think you did the right thing by staying with Win8.1

I can't get the SW Update app to run properly because of the UAC, and when I do it is kinda restricted by it...

@Dannemand I'm really grateful for all your help. Sorry to have wasted your time.

 

@Dannemand So I decided to give it a try for a last time while downloading Win7, and it magically worked! Here's what I did:

First I uninstalled the previous versions of EC and deleted all the residual files that were left after uninstalling (I found them thanks to the sofware you mentioned, "Everything").

Secondly, I made SW Update work through the admin command prompt. cd C:\Program Files (x86)\Samsung\SW Update (location of the SW Update file) and then >sManager.exe to launch it. If I'm not explaining myself well in here I can make a screenshot afterwards.

Then I followed the steps you listed to download the new version of EC. And you are right, surprisingly they are not in Win8.1 but it Win8.

After downloading it, I launched the installer in Win8 compatibility mode. This is what I did differently (though I doubt that it made a difference), instead of installing and then running it in compatibility mode, I installed it like that straight away.

I did the post-installation reboot and went to the command prompt to check the state of EC, and surprisingly, it worked!



Is there anything else I can do to make sure that it is working correctly? Just in case. And why does it say Partition Size: 19GB, when it is supposed to be 24GB?

Dannemand, you don't know how grateful I am for all your help. If it wasn't for your assistance I wouldn't have done it, so the least I can do it thank you. Thanks a lot!

 

Fantastic! Great job being persistent and getting it working! And thank you very much for sharing it here.

Looking at your screendump of the output from ECCmd, I am puzzled that it doesn't use any memory and only very little space on the iSSD. Admittedly, it takes some time to cache files, but here is what I suggest to speed it up:

1) Clean out unnecessary files on your C drive. I use CCleaner and Windows Disk Cleanup (in System mode to clean out Windows Update files).

2) Defrag the C drive (this is important to make sure the next step works).

3) Run BOOTOPT.BAT in the ExpressCache folder. It should take some time, at least 10 mins, otherwise something is wrong. Defragging is usually what solves it when that happens.

4) Reboot.

5) Run ECCmd again and see if Total Size Used and Memory In Use have increased.

Please let us know the results. Once again great job, and thanks for sharing it.

 

@Dannemand thanks!

I followed those steps and this is what I got:


Strangely enough, it takes quite a lot to boot. Right after I got EC working it took about 30 seconds to boot and be usable, and now it takes around a minute.

 

Okay, so the problem solves itself after some moderate use. Here:



Once again, it boots in around 35, unlike this morning when it took over a minute to do so.

 

Thank you for the update.

Yes, that ECCmd output now looks normal. And indeed, it takes awhile for EC to build the cache and provide any speed benefits. Your Cache Read Percent of 75% means it is now doing a good job of predicting what to cache.

Keep us posted if anything changes. I'll bookmark this thread since we covered several EC related topics that might be of use to others. Thanks again for sharing your success here.

 

@Dannemand

So I'm having some issues again.

I've been checking regularly what the state of the EC is and the results aren't the expected. The cache read percent constantly drops with time, and after I do all that BOOTOPT thing again it goes to 80% max and then starts dropping slowly again.

I figured that this is probably unsolvable so I thought of using another way of taking advantage of the iSSD, by using the -preload command. the >eccmd -preload command is an alternative to letting the software cache on its own, right? So I thought of preloading the hole Windows file but it didn't work as I expected it to (though it's probably because I'm not experienced with the command prompt).

I used the command ">eccmd -preload c:\Windows" and then it didn't let me write anything after that, it was just stuck at the beginning of the line. Here you have a screenshot:

My first reaction was that maybe the file was too big and it couldn't process it, so I tried with system32 only, but got the same results.

Once I left it for a couple of hours and got something like: .-..
Literally that, a dot, a dash, and two dots more. However, after that it got stuck in there again and didn't more for another couple of hours when I gave up on it.

My question is, is it that I'm not giving it enough time to get the job done because it takes awhile or is it that it's just not working as it should?

 

@aquesi: Thank you very much for that update.

It is indeed quite possible that ExpressCache still doesn't work as it should in Win10. This is what other users have reported, although they were not able to install it, which you managed to do in the end.

As I understand BOOTOPT, it resets the cache and loads the files used in the most recent boot. That may temporarily show a very high Read Percent, but not necessarily be the most effective use of the cache space for daily use. As long as your Read Percent doesn't drop to zero (or close to) I would still assume it is working and adapting to your use.

The ultimate test is simply to disable EC, reboot and see if you feel a difference. I am guessing you'll be surprised how much slower it is.

Other than noticing its existence, I am afraid I have no firsthand experience using eccmd -preload.

Googling site:notebookreview.com "eccmd -preload" I found this post in our Lenovo forum, which suggests you need to change to the directory you want to preload ( cd \Windows\system32) before entering the command, rather than specifying it as parameter.

I much appreciate your keeping us updated on this, as it makes this thread a good resource for ExpressCache on Win10

 

@Dannemand

Sorry for replying so late.

I uninstalled EC completely and used the laptop to see if there is any major performance difference. There is not. The only minor difference is that the laptop is usable a little bit quicker after boot. It boots in about the same time, but without EC it takes a moment to be responsive, while with it the laptop can be used quicker.

After reinstalling EC the read percentage ranges from 30 to 60, depending on the day. And the total used space out of 22GB also varies depending on the day, starting at 3GB and reaching 10GB on a good day.

I would recommend people that value the performance boost that EC offers to stick with WIN8.1 rather than updating to WIN10.

 

@aquesi: Thank you (again) for your update.

With those statistics after re-installing EC, I definitely would have expected for you to feel some performance difference. Maybe it really doesn't work under Win10 (as others had reported) even when you manage to install it.

I'll keep this thread open if you should have more to report, but otherwise consider the case closed.