I need help for my bootable factory image on USB flash thumb

Hello,

I'm a new owner of an Ativ Book 2 NP275E5E.
I know I can restore it to its factory state by pressing F4 and using the hidden partition but I prefer to have an "external" backup in case all the partitions get corrupted.

Then I bought a Sandisk Cruzer Blade 32GB (usb 2.0), pressed F4 at boot, entered Recovery, clicked save factory image and selected create boot disk. But I got an error message during the boot disk creation. If I turn off create boot disk, it works fine. Running Recovery from windows doesn't help.

I googled and found that I'm not the only one who has problem with Sandisk: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sam...es-7-chronos-amd-hd8870m-585.html#post9262251.
After further investigation I found out the reason: Sandisk flash drives are now configured as fixed disk, instead of removable: Flash Drive shows as Hard Disk Drive (Fixed Disk) in Windows Explorer. The Sandisk forum has several users' complaints about this.
It seems Samsung Recovery doesn't want to create a boot disk on a fixed drive. I hope it will help people with the same issue.

The shop where I bought the thumb refused to exchange with a model from a different brand then I was pissed off I bought an useless drive.
I tried many tricks (RMB bit flipping, fat32, ntfs, partition tools, booting tools,...) to fix the problem but no way. The only thing that helps is when I format the drive in ntfs, Recovery puts the image on this partition and creates a fat32 partition with the recovery software. Unfortunatly it doesn't boot (bootmgr missing or something).

Then I decided to try to manually make a bootable usb drive containing the Recovery software and the factory image. What I did:
1 - Created the factory image without the boot disk option. Then saved all the files (install*.swm,...) to my PC.
2 - Ran a live ubuntu in order to be able to see the hidden partitions (samsung_rec and samsung_rec2). samsung_rec contains the recovery software, bootmgr,... I copied all the files to a thumb, them copied to my PC.
3 - Made the thumb bootable (with the files copied from samsung_rec) with a tool called RMPrepUSB. I more or less followed this tutorial: 95 - Make a bootable Windows Recovery USB Flash drive from a Windows 7 system - RMPrepUSB
4 - Copied the factory image files from (1) to the thumb

Result: it boots correctly and it seems to work! I say it seems but I'd like to be sure. Indeed when I boot on the thumb, Recovery loads but it says "Source: HDD", like when I run it from windows or from F4. It shouldn't say "Source: USB" or something instead?

So I have some questions:
- Is it normal it says "Source: HDD", when I boot on the thumb? If no I suppose I did something wrong
- What the use of creating a factory image on a flash drive or usb HDD WITHOUT the "create boot disk" option? When I run Recovery from windows or F4, it only says "Source: HDD". I don't understand how to select an image saved somewhere else (flash drive, usb HDD,...)
- I'd like to be sure I put the good files in the good locations on my thumb. I have:

files:
bootmgr
bootmgr.efi

folders:
Boot
EFI
SamsungRecovery
sources
WinClon
several locale folders (maybe not needed)

The Boot folder contains:
a fonts folder
Resources/bootres.dll
BCD
boot.sdi
bootfix.bin
memtest.exe

The sources folder contains boot.wim

The Winclon folder contains a lot of files and folders: GoRecovery.exe, Manager1.exe, winclon.rsr,...

I'm confident most of them are in the good place (since it boots and seems to correctly load Recovery from the thumb) but I have a doubt about where to put the SamsungRecovery folder. It contains a JDZD91UD800330 subfolder that contains:
preview folder
install.swm
install2.swm
install3.swm
install4.swm
install5.swm
WInClonInit.srs

Currently I put SamsungRecovery on root but I'm not 100% sure it's good since, like I said above, it says "Source: HDD". I wonder whether Recovery really sees the image on the thumb.

Then it would be cool if someone who has a bootable usb factory image made by Recovery (not manually like me) could check whether I copied the needed files in the good locations.

I hope it's clear and thanks for your help!

 

This is excellent information, thank you for sharing. The symptoms you reported during creation of the factory image backup (failing when you select Create Boot Disk) match what others have reported. But I never realized that the Sandisk sticks present themselves as HDDs and not flash drives. It makes perfect sense that that would fail, since Recovery insists on a flash drive for this type of backup.

The most valuable conclusion from this is for users to avoid Sandisk drives when creating their bootable factory image backup. I will definitely take note of that when answering questions about it.

Although a few might be willing to manually create the backup as you have been doing, I honestly think you're better off doing it the good old way if you're going to put that much work into it: (1) Create a bootable USB Admin Tool on a small USB stick (500MB should be enough). This will be your bootable device. (2) Create a non-bootable factory image backup on the 32GB stick (or even an external HDD). Just like the bootable factory image backup, the USB Admin Tool can be used to re-image your drive and create working Recovery partitions, and copy a factory image during the process. See this post for overview of that process. I can provide more detail if you need.

To answer your question, the Create Boot Disk option is the one that copies the entire Recovery Software onto the USB stick (instead of just the factory image alone). That's what makes it a self-contained "Recovery on a stick".

I don't have an SRS6 model myself, so I cannot tell you the exact file contents on that backup. Hopefully others will chime in.

Once again thank you for sharing this.

 

I attach the full list of files on the bootable USB drive I created a few days ago on the Ativ Book 9 Lite.

There's a lot of languages included!

John

View attachment RecUSB file list.zip

 

According to the sandisk forum, it's a requirement from Microsoft to get the Windows 8 certification. Change Sandisk Extreme USB 3.0 usb drive to remova... - SanDisk Forums
And it seems other brands are in the process to do the same thing on their drives. So if I bought another drive, it's not even sure it will be different!

I think I don't have something called USB Admin Tool on my Samsung. By the way the tool is not called SRS5 or SRS6, just Recovery

What I don't understand is how to restore a factory image stored on a stick, or external HDD. I mean I can' find a way to choose the image location. When I run Recovery from windows, or from F4, or from my manually made bootable stick it, I can't choose where is stored the image. It says source: HDD. But it's not clickable. Is it the normal behavior? Maybe you can't change the location until the original HDD backup is corrupted or deleted, I don't know. On your Samsung, can you choose the image location?

Thank a lot Dannemand for your help.

 

Thanks a lot! It's exactly what I needed. And it fits my homemade bootable stick. Great!
Last request: could you post the content of the file SamsungRecovery\JFV891ED700238\WinClonInit.srs please?

 

The file contains:

If you can figure out what that means, please explain. The computer has a 128GB SSD, if that is relevant.

John

 

Update:
As I said in my first post, the shop where I bought the stick refused to exchange it with another model. Since I was not happy, I sent an email to their customer service. Today they replied to say they accept the exchange. Then I went to the shop and this time, they accepted. I took a basic, noname stick.
This one is correctly seen as removable in windows. And Recovery flawlessly created a bootable factory image on it. As expected.

So my problem is solved. Thanks to John Ratsey and Dannemand for their help, even if finally, it was useless since I now have a stick that works correctly.

At least, I hope it could help other people who have similar issues. By the way, I compared the bootable usb made by Recovery and the one I made manually on the sandisk. Files/folders are the same. Only the boot sector is different. So it seems my method was correct. The only difference I saw was the boot screen (black on my new stick, a blue windows logo on the sandisk I manually created).

If for some reasons someone can't or don't want to create a bootable stick with Samsung Recovery, it's doable by using the instructions I gave in my first post. Of course I don't recommend it.

There's still something that puzzles me: It always says "Source: HDD" and no way to choose the location of the image. I suppose it's the normal behavior. Maybe you can't choose a different location unless the original recovery image on the HDD is dead.

 

I don't understand much more than you. I suppose PBR is partition boot record and WINRE is Windows Recovery Environment. For info mine is:

 

It definitely works with other flash drives. Many users have done this successfully. But you will have to find one that acts as a removable drive, not an HDD. Most likely cheaper ones, who don't care about Microsoft certification. Down the road, Samsung will have to fix this requirement, of course.

Yes, SRS5 and SRS6 is just our shorthand for Samsung Recovery Solution 5 and 6. And I am 99% certain yours has the ability to create a USB Admin Tool, but it is in the hidden Management Mode. Follow the links I posted earlier about how to get there. Also, understand that the USB Admin Tool is ONLY the Recovery software (on a bootable USB stick); you will still have to backup either the entire SAMSUNG_REC2 partition (file & folder copy) or the factory image (using SRS Factory Image tab without the Create Boot Disk option). The latter is easier for the average user. The former allows you to will preserve the SystemSoftware folder as well, and also to backup to an external HDD.

I am almost certain the reason it won't boot or work properly is the same: It wants a removable drive, not an HDD. For some reason, Samsung (and the company who made SRS for them, whose name escapes me) decided that these backups have to go on a USB flash drive. The bootable Recovery software certainly has to (whether in the form of a Bootable Factory Image Backup or a USB Admin Tool). The factory image itself can be backed up to an external HDD -- and maybe restored from one as well once Recovery has been re-created on a disk.

When re-partitioning the disk using USB Admin Tool, you can choose the Copy init image option to automatically copy the factory image -- but only if it is on a USB stick. And similarly, if you want to use the (more convenient) Bootable Factory Image Backup, the whole thing must be on a single USB stick (32GB for most models).

And as we now know (thanks to you) these USB sticks must present themselves as removable drives, not as HDDs -- which apparently some do. Once again, this is very useful information you shared here.

Edit:

I had written most of this post offline earlier. Only now, after posting it, do I see you got another stick that acts as a removable drive and that works. Great, good job!

You confirmed everything wonderfully for us here: Even if the content of the flash drive is exactly the same, it's not working unless it acts as a removable drive.

I honestly cannot think of a reason why anyone would want to create the backup manually. Either of the two automated approaches should work just fine: (A) The fully automatic Bootable Factory Image backup (which only works in SRS6), or (B) the semi-automatic USB Admin Tool (which works in both SRS5 and SRS6) combined with either a file & folder backup of the entire SAMSUNG_REC2 partition, or a separate non-bootable Factory Image backup.

Again, overview of the procedures are here and details of the USB Admin Tool procedure is here. Details of the USB Admin Tool re-partitioning procedure for SRS6 is here.

That should gather information and links, so that this thread can be a good future reference

 

Well actually the bootable stick I manually did on the sandisk looks to work. Besides the loading (a blue windows logo on the sandisk, black screen on my new stick made by Recovery), the behavior is the same same: same "please wait", same Recovery screen, same options...
I had a doubt it worked because on the sandisk, Recovery said "Source: HDD" with no way to change the image location, while I expected something like "Source: USB". I thought it couldn't see the image on the stick. But with my new stick (that acts as a removable drive), made bootable by Recovery it's similar. It looks like:



Again no way to change this to Source: USB or something
Moreover in SamsungRecovery\xxxx\Preview\xxxx, there's a Programs.txt file that is apparently read when you click on the green computer/lense icon to display the softwares installed with the dates, versions,... First lines are:

On the stick, to do an experiment, I changed the first line to:
Help Desk;Samsung Electronics CO., LTD.;2013-03- 20;22484;1.0. 4;0
But when I boot on the stick, click the green computer/lense icon it stills says 2013-03- 15;22484;1.0. 9;0". Then it seems Recovery ignores the image file and the preview folder on the stick. I suppose it always try to use the files on the hidden partitions unless it's corrupted/deleted.
Or I don't understand how to choose the image location, but I clicked nearly everywhere and found nothing to this.

 

I don't believe you can choose a different image when restoring from a bootable factory image backup. It is used to re-image your drive to factory state, nothing else. Once you have a Recovery on the HDD/SSD that you can boot with F4, you should be able to restore any image from any source.

But interesting that the SanDisk worked after all. So the problem is only that Recovery won't create it.

 

I understand that it is used to re-image my drive to factory state, nothing else. And it's what I want to able to do. But why does Recovery save the factory image to the stick but uses the factory image from the HDD to restore the computer to its factory state? It's what I don't understand.
Let say my HDD is damaged (virus, major software disk crash, error with a partition tool,...) and that the partition containing the factory image files is deleted/corrupted, how can I restore the computer to its factory state if the bootable stick looks for the image on the HDD not on the stick?

Sorry for asking many questions on this same topic but I'm confused.

 

No problem, that's a good question. I agree I did not expect it to look for the factory image on the HDD when booting from the USB.

I can somewhat see the logic, since the Recovery Data partition on the HDD also contains the SystemSoftware folder (used by SW Update for speed and/or if there is no internet). It might contain other restore points too. So if Recovery (regardless of where it boots from) sees what it considers an intact Recovery Data partition on the disk, it chooses to preserve that.

Certainly when restoring on a blank disk or one without Recovery partitions, it reads from the USB. I would think it always does when re-partitioning ( Partition settings enabled).

 

It's also what I think.

 

Hang on, I just remembered something: If I boot my USB Admin Tool from a USB3 port, it actually just boots Recovery on the HDD. I have to use a USB2 port in order to actually boot the USB stick.

Might that be what you're seeing?

 

The notebook doesn't have an USB3. Moreover when I remove the stick during the loading, I get a blue WINRE screen with an error and some icons. So it really loads Recovery from the stick. And there's a difference between Recovery on the HDD started by F4 and the one on the stick:
- with F4 when Recovery is started there's a backup tab and a recover one. Like from windows IIRC
- when I boot on the stick, backup is not possible, there's only a recovery screen
So I can see a difference between Recovery on the HDD or on the stick. But the windows version, the F4 version and the stick version all have that same "Source: HDD" thing.

 

Got it, thank you. I think you have established that it really does load its image source from the HDD whenever the Recovery partition is found there - regardless of where the Recovery software is loaded from.

Or rather: I suspect it loads from the HDD whenever it finds the F4 link in the partition table. I would be curious what it does if you boot the USB after restoring image backups of the Recovery partitions (Acronis or similar) which is known to destroy the F4 link.