Is Samsung pulling a fast one with their R580-11?

Major changes on the new 15" R580-11... for the worst.
I don't understand why Samsung did a flipflop on the two notebooks.
They really downgraded the R580, (cpu, gpu).
They put the good stuff in their 14" Q430-11

Strange thing is Samsung is charging the same price for the R580 as before, $825 w/tax... kind of misleading and tricky don't you think?
Samsung Launches Three New Notebooks at Best Buy | Notebooks.com

The old R480 14" sold for $750, the new 14" sells for $915, so both, 14" & 15" are OVERPRICED!
Seems to me Samsung had this in their plans all along to trick the consumers.

The 14" and 17" notebooks have the good stuff and are good notebooks. The 15" is the loser now.

I'm glad I bought my R580 when I did... it is a much better notebook than the new 15" version.

 

R580-11 is only $750 not $850 (in the US anyway).

Samsung - Laptop / Intel® Core™ i3 Processor / 15.6" Display / 4GB Memory / 500GB Hard Drive - Red/Black - R580-11

The 14" Q430-11 is $830, same price as the old Samsung R580. But it doesn't have a blu-ray player, an expresscard slot, or eSATA. It does look prettier though (although I like the old R580 look too) and it is smaller. Still, financially not as good deal in my mind.

I'd say Samsung is really tricking its buyers by also calling the new downgraded model R580. But I wouldn't say the new models are "overpriced". Just not the steal the old R580 was.

The old R580 really was a steal. I think all of us who have the old model should be really happy and the ones that have the new ones, well you're still better off than with some other of the current laptops.

 

Your probably right. We got the good deal with the first version. Now they have the price in line with the other makers out there.
I still think it is tricky how they did that. They plan these things months in advance too.

 

I guess Samsung wanted to cover all the bases. When I saw the new models I was glad I had purchased the R580 with the i5 Core.

 

Here in Australia, Samsung have had two or three versions of the R580 available. These had basically the same specs except the CPU. Currently, there are two different i5 and an i7 model listed on the site. But, I am sure there has been an i3 model available.

As to the price, I very much doubt there is anything underhand going on. It is much more likely that the part prices have changed, or the exchange rates have become worse for the imports.

 

Most companies don't change their current models for at least a year.
Samsung did it inside of 4 months.

Don't get me wrong, I love the notebook I have, the original R580, but I still think they pulled a slight trick to generate more $$$. Probably saw how popular the R580 was.

Now take everything I post with a grain of salt... I'm just speculating.

 

Samsung have definitely changed them faster than yearly here in Australia. But, their recommended retail prices have been consistent (new i5 model different by the value of the change).

And for frequent model changes, have a look at ASUS. I always have the feeling that each laptop could be different.

 

I'm considering getting a netbook as well so was on Best Buy's website and couldn't keep from checking out the reviews on the new R580-11. It's obvious people with the old R580 are getting the two models confused and are posting glowing reviews (really about the old R580) on the R580-11.

I guess they are practically the same computers so maybe its not a big deal. But they post about the i5 processor and nvidia graphics card which may be misleading for new buyers.

Oh, the buyers of the new version seem to think the laptop is a good price too so maybe we've just been spoiled and the new version is still a bargain.

 

I think they wanted to improve the battery 'quick drain' issue so the cpu and graphics card were two things they could change out easily. And the $100 difference on the Best Buy US site doesn't seem to bother purchasers (as to the speed) per their overall comments. I am glad I have the i5. That is why I purchased it. I recall testing the unit against the i5 and I did see a difference. But the Nvidia card also makes a huge difference. I never did like the internal Intel card on anything I tested.

 

Good point. You know the battery really does drain faster than any other laptop I've every used (though I've never had one with a graphics card before).

Doesn't matter at all to me since I keep it plugged in most of the time; but does this mean the battery will probably become broken faster than with other laptops?

 

Broken? Nah....it just won't have the 'juice' capacity like a new one. I just ran the calibrate BIOS function and now I'm letting the battery charge up to 100% instead of the 80% setting. I am going to work on keeping the R580 off the charger as much as possible. I'll let it drain down to 6-7% and then recharge it. I think this could be a good strategy. We'll see!

 

You make it sound as if Samsung re-engineered the R580. In reality, they just tinker with the CPU and GPU options (also HDD size, amount of RAM and optical drive options) according to what they think will sell at different target price and performance levels.

European customers also have the alternative of selecting the R590 which is very similar except it's blue instead of red but also has slightly different hardware configurations.

Some dedicated GPUs contain as many transistors as a GPU and all those transistors tend to leak power. The downside of having a dedicated GPU is extra heat (and fan activity) all the time and shorter run time on battery. Switchable graphics is the only way to give users the choice between 3D performance and long battery run time. However, although the technology exists, few manufacturers provide the option. Alternatively, a less powerful dedicated GPU may provide adequate 3D performance with less heat and power leakage. According to notebookcheck, the GT 310M GPU contains only 260M transistors compared to the GT 330M's 486M.

John

 

Yes, the laptop is actually one of the coolest if not the coolest laptops I've every had.

 

That's a bad strategy. The three things that affect the long term life of a Li-Ion battery are:

- Age. The older they are, the less capacity they have. This is generally known as wear. The expected life is two or three years. If you have 80% capacity after two years, you are doing well.

- Heat. This affect the aging. The warmer the battery, the faster it wears. The cooler, the slower. This is the only good reason for not keeping the battery in the laptop.

- Recharge Cycles. Li-Ion cells are rated at between 300 and 800 recharge cycles. A recharge cycle is a full discharge plus a full recharge. Partial discharges/recharge count as a partial cycle (i.e. Discharge to 50% and recharge to 100% is half a cycle).

The strategy of running the on the battery all the time and only plugging in to recharge, means you are constantly using recharge cycles. And it means that you will wear the battery out faster. As an R780 has about a 2.5 hour battery life and a 2.5 hour recharge time, that means that for every 5 hours use, you will use a recharge cycle. It isn't hard to have the laptop on 10 hours a day, so you would use 700+ cycles per year.

Also, the recommendation is to avoid fully discharging the battery. Discharge to 20% is supposed to be better on the battery than going to 0%. I can't comment on this as I tend to use the battery to empty when I need it.

So, I don't think your strategy is a good idea. But, if that is what you need to do, do it. If you need to use the laptop on battery, just do it. That's what it is for. If you need to run to zero charge, don't worry about it. Worry more about making sure you don't loose data when the laptop shuts down on you. But, if you have the opportunity to plug-in and use AC, it is better for the overall life of the battery.

 

NOT practically the same computer... "tinker with the CPU & GPU".
Changing the i5 to a i3 and going from a dedicated GPU to a "shared" integrated GPU is a BIG difference!

Just my opinion.

 

I agree! Both changes at once IS a big difference! Interesting that the manual provides info to both CPU's and both graphic configurations. So its not a new strategy but a calculated strategy! Provide the big seller first and then provide the lesser desireable configurations. It's common practice for a lot of products. It is marketing!

 

Hi Jack53, this is a little off topic but I thought I read that you get a new laptop almost yearly.

Do you sell your old one at that time? If so how much money on average do you lose every year by changing so often? I'm trying to decide how often to switch laptops in order to be the most financially cost effective and still meet my needs.

I bought my samsung used for $675. Was thinking I'd sell it after a year (when it hasn't depreciated as much as if I kept it longer) and buy another used (but pretty new like the Samsung) laptop in a year. Thought switching so often might actually cost me about the same as buying a brand new laptop and keeping it for 5 years before selling when its price has gone down so much its almost worthless (and this way I always have the best laptop).

 

Still not convinced my strategy is bad! From a company that sells the R580 batteries ( SAMSUNG AA-PB9NC6B battery replacement for AA-PB9NC6B AA-PB9NC6W 11.1V 4400mAh ) this is what they had to say:

# 2) For daily use, charge the SAMSUNG AA-PB9NC6B battery to full, then run it on battery power only until it is completely out if using battery (to prevent the "memory effect") or mostly out for Li-ion (to prevent overcharging).

That is what I do and it seems like a plausible strategy!

 

Here are all their suggestions:

SAMSUNG AA-PB9NC6B battery tips
# 1)SAMSUNG AA-PB9NC6B battery packs should be charged for 12 hours when you first get them.SAMSUNG AA-PB9NC6B laptop battery completely discharged at the time of purchase, and need a full charge before their first use.
# 2) For daily use, charge the SAMSUNG AA-PB9NC6B battery to full, then run it on battery power only until it is completely out if using battery (to prevent the "memory effect") or mostly out for Li-ion (to prevent overcharging).
# 3) Do not leave your SAMSUNG AA-PB9NC6B battery inactive for extended periods of time. Even if you use AC power most of the time, use the SAMSUNG AA-PB9NC6B laptop battery periodically to keep it in good condition. Unplug your AC adapter when the computer is not in use to prevent overcharging

 

With most notebook manufacturers the model number refers to the basic chassis and not the core components. My Dell E6400 was available with CPUs from the P8400 to the T9900 with either Intel or nVidia GPUs. All are E6400s.

I see a couple of flaws with their logic: (i) Li-ion batteries do not suffer from the memory effect; and (ii) most modern notebooks stop charging the battery once it is full and many then don't start recharging it until the battery charge level drops by several per cent in order to avoid lots of little top-up charges. The (Samsung) battery in my Dell E6400 is almost 2 years old and still claims to have 90% of its original capacity.

John

 

Now this is getting interesting! Here is some additional information (excerpt from a lot of info!) from another source - http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm:

Although lithium-ion is memory-free in terms of performance deterioration, batteries with fuel gauges exhibit what engineers refer to as "digital memory". Here is the reason: Short discharges with subsequent recharges do not provide the periodic calibration needed to synchronize the fuel gauge with the battery's state-of-charge. A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem. Letting the battery run down to the cut-off point in the equipment will do this. If ignored, the fuel gauge will become increasingly less accurate. (Read more in 'Choosing the right battery for portable computing', Part Two.)

 

That's the best place for all battery information. But, it is too much for most people. The battery guide here is a good summary.

From your earlier post:

The first part of those instructions are for non-Li-Ion rechargeable batteries. Because of the "memory effect", NiCads and NiMH (these don't have the actual memory effect but something very similar). The Li-Ion bit is after the "or" where it says "mostly out". But, the "to prevent overcharging" is completely rubbish.

The recommendation for Li-Ion is not to "deep discharge" them and to avoid frequent full discharges. The deep discharge you can't really do with a laptop battery. Everything shuts off at 0% and the deep discharge is below that. The only way to do it is to leave the battery at zero for a while. The full discharge is to 0%.

As to overcharging, John said, "most modern notebooks stop charging the battery" which is incorrect. It's not "most" it is "all" and it is for every laptop built for Li-Ion batteries. If a Li-Ion battery is overcharged, it damages them. The damage is such that the battery becomes dangerous. So, between the laptop and the protection circuit in the battery, charging will stop when the battery is full. It will stay off until the battery charge drops a bit. For the R780 this is either 96% or 97% (I know I see 97% but I can't remember if I see 96%). All other laptops I have checked, it is at 95%. This will happen either because the battery was used for a while, or because due to the natural self-discharge. For my R780, this takes about a week but it normally gets unplugged long enough as well.

And I just noticed something else:

DO NOT BUY THIS BATTERY. If the battery is a Li-Ion battery and is completely discharged, it might never work. I mentioned the "deep discharge" point above. If Li-Ion battery hits this, the protection circuit kicks in and will prevent the battery from being charged. EVER. So, if you have a Li-Ion battery with zero charge, as it sits around for a while it will self-discharge. This can drop the voltage to the point the protection circuit kicks in and disables the battery. So, all Li-Ion batteries should be sold with some charge in it.

Also, the 12 hour charge is crap as well. It should only take between two and three hours from zero to full. After that, nothing happens.

The last point you posted from the site is also only partly correct. But at least it's incorrect in a way that won't harm.

Based on the details from that site, I will never be buying a battery from them. They don't know what they are doing.

 

Not really OT. Tied in for sure.

Like you said, if you wait two years or longer, you won't get much for the notebook.

If I sell before the warranty runs out, and with my added software on it, (Adobe CS5, MS Office 2010 and others) I can actually sell it for more than I bought it. I take such good care of my notebooks, it's still like new when I'm ready to sell.

I like getting the latest notebooks with the latest CPU, GPU etc.

 

Wow. I think I'm going to have to copy you Jack53 and sell my laptop every year now. With light peak coming out sooner or later, think its worth the extra effort. Thanks.