Is it possible to boot from an iSSD (Samsung Ativbook)

I just installed a new SSD in my laptop. I reinstalled W10 and everything is running great. However, I also wanted to install linux onto the iSSD that was being used for hybrid caching. I have plenty of room on the new SSD but I figured the iSSD was just going to sit idle, might as well use it. I also just wanted to see if it was possible. I don't plan to save much on the linux partition. The install seemed to go great but there is no boot option to boot from that drive..... The drive shows up in W10. It shows the new partitions. I installed GRUB onto the iSSD. In retrospect, I probably should have installed it on sda. Even if I get the bootloader to show up, would it recognize the linux partitions? The iSSD is not even listed in the BIOS. Anyone ever get this to work?

 

Unfortunately there is no way to boot directly from the iSSD. It is indeed a standard SATA device, visible to the installed OS and to bootloaders, but it is NOT visible to BIOS.

You can install an OS on it, as long as the bootloader (GRUB in your case) is on the main HDD/SSD.

One warning is to avoid unnecessary wear (writing) on the iSSD. Once it breaks, you may find that booting becomes very slow (even after disabling the iSSD in the OS) and the only solution is to replace the motherboard.

 

Thanks for your reply. So is your suggestion to not use it at all due to the risk? Perhaps I should reformat, load it with some compressed movies, and use it as read only storage? With the ways it's designed, does the computer constantly rewrite to the cache depending on how one's usage changes?

So I'm confused on one thing. If I install GRUB on sda and it recognizes the linux partitions on the iSSD, will it still not boot because the BIOS can't see it? Or would GRUB only see W10.

 

ExpressCache does indeed write to the iSSD and wear it, so it's not like it shouldn't be used. But if you stop using it as ExpressCache (after replacing the HDD with a real SSD) I would recommend either leaving it alone or finding a use that doesn't require a lot of writing. You can watch its Wear status using tools like HWiNFO.

Running an OS from the iSSD is reasonably, since most of its files will be static most of the time.

And you CAN do that if you put GRUB on the main HDD/SSD (or any drive visible in BIOS which can be booted directly). BIOS will load the bootloader (GRUB) and the bootloader should be able to see the iSSD and load the OS from it.

I have not tried it myself, but a few other members have posted successes doing it. If I had a larger iSSD on my NP700Z3A (it's only 8GB) I would install Windows on it the same way.

 

Thanks, for clarifying; that's exactly what I needed. I will first start with checking the wear on my iSSD. Then I will try and move GRUB. Right as I clicked it, I knew that I messed up. W10 is reporting that my iSSD is 22.37GB which should be adequate for a linux partition. I don't plan to write much in linux. I understand what you are saying about the wear though because the iSSD is soldered to the board, correct? I'm sure it doesn't have the same quality flash that a consumer grade SSD does.

This new SSD makes a huge difference in W10; although, I just did an upgrade for a friend running a Core i3 5th gen and his computer actually feels faster. Same SSD as mine.

 

On my phone now, so this'll be brief. You are correct: The iSSD is soldered, and it is not as high quality as a "real" SSD.

It would be great if you can post a guide after making this installation. I'm sure others would like to do the same, but may need a bit more guidance

 

Thanks. I'm not sure I will have time for an entire guide but I will be sure to report back and give specifics of how I got it to work if I get it working

 

Before I messed around with trying to move GRUB I just booted off an external that has Ubuntu 14.04 loaded on it (from an old laptop). It boots right into GRUB. Only Ubuntu showed up at first. I opened up a terminal and ran sudo update-grub. The linux partition installed on the iSSD shows up now in GRUB. Problem is I select it, the laptop reboots, and W10 loads. I'm not giving up yet. I might try a third party bootloader and see what happens.

 

If you're in UEFI mode, that may affect how GRUB works: I would presume it somehow has to tie in with the bootloader on the EFI System Partition. I couldn't say for sure, but I am guessing those other members who reported running an OS from the iSSD were in legacy BIOS mode (non-UEFI).

Again, I have not tried this myself, so I cannot give you any specific advice. I'm sure you'll figure it out

Edit: Also be careful here: Installing linux in UEFI mode is what started the wave of UEFI/linux brickings on Samsung 2012 models -- which I assume yours must be if it has ExpressCache AND is called an Ativbook. Check the Bricking section in the Samsung Forum sticky list (on top of the Samsung forum).

 

I did some reading on the Samsung linux brick issue. That's some pretty disconcerting info. I've never heard a machine getting bricked just booting into linux before.

I tried booting into the linux partition with only CSM mode enable (I assume that's their legacy option). I booted into GRUB on the external. Then I selected the linux partition loaded onto the iSSD. It looked like it was going to boot. There was that brief color distortion and then just a black screen.

I can't remember if I installed linux in UEFI mode. I'll have to check.

I'm going to finish doing my research before going further. Is it safe to say that my machine supports linux if I was able to boot off the external without any issues?

The computer is a Ativbook 5 NP540U4E-K01US. For a date it states 04. 2013

 

You are on the right track: If you install in CSM mode (legacy BIOS mode) that should eliminate the risk of UEFI bricking.

Make sure both your primary HDD/SSD and the iSSD are converted to MBR partition style as required in BIOS/CSM mode. Note that the conversion will wipe them. In theory it should only matter that the primary drive (with the boot manager) is MBR, but I would use MBR on both.

I located the thread linked below with a user who succeeded with such an installation. However he installed in UEFI mode:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/ubuntu-on-issd-windows-on-hdd-dual-boot.765702/

Again, I do not have enough linux experience to guide you. But I will be very interested to hear the outcome.

 

When I installed my new SSD and reinstalled W10 I definitely chose GPT.

I started to read through that thread but I haven't' finished. It sounds like the bricking can not be resolved by resetting the CMOS battery.

It sounds like my computer is not one that is affected by this. I've booted off the external multiple times. I've also booted off of USB thumb drives with other version of linux. No issues yet. I will try reinstalling linux with a MBR partition. If that doesn't work, I will install it on my primary drive and use the iSSD for storage.

 

If you installed Win10 onto a GPT disk, that means you installed in UEFI mode. Switching to CSM (legacy BIOS) mode now to test booting linux from the iSSD won't work: CSM (legacy BIOS) can only boot from an MBR disk (FAT32 or NTFS partition) whereas UEFI can only boot a FAT32 partition on a GPT disk.

The post here has some overview and links regarding UEFI/GPT vs BIOS/MBR. I apologize if you are already well versed in that, but it has caught many users off guard.

The boot manager placed on your primary when you installed Win10 in UEFI mode, is an EFI boot manager on the EFI System Partition (typically 300MB partition before the 128MB Microsoft Reserved Partition).

You can either install in UEFI mode (as the member in the thread I linked) and add your iSSD linux install to the current EFI boot manager. Or you can switch to CSM and start over with both the primary and the iSSD converted to MBR and install GRUB on the primary.

Edit: Updated with a better link about UEFI/GPT vs BIOS/MBR.

 

Ending up bailing on this endeavor. I couldn't get it to work..... I bought a matching stick of RAM on Ebay for dirty cheap. In doing so I decided to install virtual box and run a virtual version of linux instead. It would have been cool to have linux installed on the iSSD but I have to move on to new projects.

If anyone in the future has anything to add to this thread. I would still be interested in trying it again.

Thanks for your help Dannemand.