Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus - NP940X3G

Statement 1 was to give some advantages of current relatively high resolution displays in general. The 'low res' statement was meant in general, though in this context even a 1080P panel is relatively low res compared to upcoming QHD screens.
This answer your confusion?

 

Putting aside the potential display scaling problems, one way to look at the display resolution issue is to compare it with printers. The difference in sharpness and clarity between 150 dpi and 300 dpi printing is very noticeable; the difference between 300 dpi and 600 dpi moderately noticeable and the difference between 600 dpi and 1200 dpi is barely noticeable. The QHD display is equivalent to something beyond the 1200 dpi.

This is one article about the resolving power of the human eye. There are others. Check your comfortable distance between eye and screen (mine is 50cm) and recalculate the numbers according.

John

 

I am not confused. Thanks for worrying though.

But your 13.1" 1080p doesn't compare to a 13.3" 1800p.

 

Hi John,

I took you up on this, did some tests and measurements. The mentioned article is not wrong, but not complete either. The mentioned resolving power there is the ability of the eye to discern 2 items, like 2 black dots on a white background. With proper vision one can do about 60 arcseconds of distance between them, according to most sources.
I've also consulted some other places, it seems our eyes are much better at detecting alignment between lines, etc. One value mentioned on Wikipedia is 8 arcseconds.

While Wikipedia is nice, I thought I'd do a little experiment: I fired up Paint.net and made a pic that would fill the window nicely at 100% zoom. I drew one horizontal black line through the middle, with a 1 pixel jump close to the middle.
I took a measuring tape, took some distance to my Vaio and checked the maximum distance at which I was able to consistently find the jump. To my surprise it was much further than I expected it, at a measured 190cm.
This calculated back to arcseconds comes down to about 16,6.
Seeing two dots apart was much harder and also much harder to determine the actual distance where things got indiscernible, but I'm guessing it was about 90-100cm.

I've compiled a table with some calculations: distance vs dpi values and corresponding resolutions, using the following data:

Pixel separation resolution: 60 arcseconds
Venier acuity resolution: 16,6 arcseconds
Res values based on a 13,3" diagonal.



Basically, if you consider a 50cm distance to the screen you'd need a little over 1920x1080 at minimum to pass the "can't see 2 points from eachother" mark. But you'd need roughly over 7300x4100 to pass the "Can't see this line jump" mark...

 

FWIW, it too appreciate the trend towards higher resolution, and I generally lean towards Stefan's argument. Of course I also agree with the argument that adding pixels just for marketing's sake makes no sense, if nobody can tell the difference.

But as one who worked in typography and prepress for many years since the mid 80's, when laser printers went through generations of resolution increases (300 to 600 to 1200 dpi), trying to catch up with the resolution of imagesetters (where 1270 dpi is typical draft quality, and 2540 dpi or higher is typical production quality) I can testify that the higher resolution makes a huge difference, particularly on type rendering. When the graphic arts industry adopted these high resolutions 30+ years ago (when computing power and memory were far more precious than today) it wasn't just in response to a marketing gimmick.

The theories and arguments that "the human eye cannot discern high resolution" are often flawed, because those extra pixels help tremendously in edge smoothness and detail clarity, even when most human eyes can no longer easily distinguish two adjacent pixels at the higher resolution. It is simply the wrong test when discussing photo and type rendering.

Compared to monochrome devices (such as laser printers and imagesetters), it is true that full color devices (such as LCD screens) can use anti-aliasing to compensate for their lower resolution; hence it's not an exact apples-to-apples comparison; AND not everybody will be doing Photoshop or DTP work (particularly not on a small 13 inch screen anyway); AND the high resolution will be a pain using legacy software that insists on rendering its GUI using a fixed pixel size (of which Photoshop, oddly, is one).

My point is mainly that actual usability should determine whether high resolution screens are a good feature, rather than theoretical arguments about whether users can ever see the difference. Because those who really WANT this feature CAN see the difference. Guaranteed. And I bet that more people than currently realize it will be able to see it as well.

But until software (Windows as well as apps) has caught up to the 21st century, I admit there is probably more people who will be inconvenienced by the high res. Arguably, resolution this high should be an option for now, and not a standard feature. I just hope the push that first Apple, and now finally other vendors, are making towards higher resolution screens, will finally force software vendors to catch up and get it right. I think once that happens, we won't have users demanding low resolution screens anymore: Some will appreciate the high res more than others, but nobody should have reason to dislike it.

/RANT

 

I'd rather put my money on a thread climax when the business model's specs are merely announced. You know, the, quote-unquote, "~~BUSINESS model~~" they referred to in their press release. The one with i7/8GB/512SSD/matte-nontouch/LTE/all-around-black-and-no-engraving/minus 80 grams/1mm thanks to the screen. (The one for $2499.)

 

I agree if there were no penalties for going to higher res, why not. But Samsung had to add a half pound of battery weight just to accommodate the extra power draw from the screen. While I'm glad 720p TN screens have been relegated to the bargain bin, I think a quality 1080p PLS is more than enough for 13". I just hope there is a non-touch S9 haswell refresh that would give very good battery life in that same package. Since there is no 8GB AB9+ to be seen, I guess the market is the retina crowd using metro apps rather than the power user applications. Gonna be tough to do CAD, photoshop on the AB9+ until they put 8GB in, so I'd hold on to that Z awhile longer

 

May I add that 'get it right' should imply to refrain from bitmap scaling, Otherwise it's just the content to benefit (presuming it is high res).

Have I already mentioned today how happy I am with the matte 1080p panel of the Ativ Book 9 running native resolution?

 

What a weird discussion. For once, we're talking about display technology being too far ahead of the curve. Lol, never thought I'd see the day.

 

I plan on running the screen at 1600x900 or 1920x1080 until windows 8.1 comes out with better scaling. Unless the Samsung scaling software works well, which I doubt...

 

ok so from what I understand, the recent reviews are bs until further notice.

the resolution is massively too high which makes it a pain to use.

this is suppose to be one of the best ultrabooks on the market however after reading I'm not so sure. if I were going to go with this, can someone give me an alternative? I'm looking at the same specs sort of ultrabook. it'll mainly be for 1080p/bluray movies and tv. can a 4gb ram ultrabook power a full bluray? I won't be doing any work on it, nothing more than remote and VNC.

what I liked about this is that it's new
and I'm soon to be traveling with it

 

Lets take a step back here on the negativity regarding the screen. The weight gain is primarily secondary to the addition of the touchscreen not the screen res. This is an option that while hotly debated is still desirable to some, myself included. Also, for crying out loud guys we are talking about 2.5 vs 3lbs. If I'm not mistaken that is very close to the weight of the MacBook Air which is pretty much light as a feather. Definitely not something that should hinder travel in any appreciable way. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the default option for now is 1080p meaning that QHD could be utilized as future proofing once the software catches up. Certainly not something you are stuck with. Simply a forward thinking option that drew many of you to this forum in the first place...

 

Well the acer Aspire s7 392 is a good alternative and I don't know about playing blu ray from a external drive, but I ran 1080p blu ray rips on my old laptop all the time and it only had 2gb ram and a core 2 duo.

 

I am sorry but the Acer Aspire S7s body is horrendous with razor like edges that will make you commit suicide when you type on it's flaky FN+F keyed mess..literally.. its that sharp, I highly recommend you go out to the stores and try out the models before purchasing online to get the general look and feel.

 

I agree about the razor sharp edges. A complaint I made on the S7 forum but was dismissed as the way I typed and not a design flaw. I had real trouble getting use to the keyboard and space bar....making tons of mistakes even after three weeks of use. I find typing on my older,smaller HP DVM1 easier and more friendly. I sent the S7 back and still searching for my new ultarbook.

 

Yep, easily. If you don't need touch, the older S9/AB9 are going for very reasonable prices.

Yes, the thicker touch screen also makes up the weight gain along with the beefier hinge and larger cell. I agree 3lbs won't break your back, but I'd much rather jump to the 15" S9 at 3.5lbs if they'd put a decent screen in it. Since the AB9+ is a top end machine, I would've appreciated if their forward-thinking had included 8GB as a default. Yeah you can get by with 4GB if you're only using the metro apps, but if you did want to take advantage of those pixels for actual graphical work I think you'd run into trouble. There's a reason the MBPr (which samsung is clearly aping) comes with 8GB standard. Just seems like a lame corner to cut on their premium line, when the cost to them is a few bucks. So you're left with a very expensive machine with a highest resolution 13" touch screen that is essentially only useful recreationally.

I would think 1600x900 would be better than 1080p, but maybe 8.1 will make that a null issue.

 

You should rather compare it with its predecessor(s). Over several generations the Ativ Book 9 (former Series 9) has improved in size and / or weight. This is the first time it goes in the other direction:

Body volume: + roughly 10%
Weight: + roughly 20%

In the ultrabook world this a quite a bit. And now it's even glossy. I guess many people had different expectations.

 

Right, but where were these expectations coming from? It was a given that with the addition of touchscreen the AB9+ would be heavier and glossy. The only way to have decreased the weight or kept it the same was to use different lighter materials which isn't always beneficial (see all of the complaints regarding the vaio pro). I am simply saying that 3lb while not as exceptional as prior models is still quite good when the additions are taken into account. Now I completely agree with the lack of RAM being a poorly thought out hindrance especially considering the screen res. If we want to discuss Samsung falling short of expectations in terms of specs then I'm right there with you. Apparently their definition of "premium" is different than ours. Unfortunately, the only way to change that and bring the definitions closer is poor market reception. So, only time will tell...

 

I own it and you're exaggerating about the "razor like edges". I also type a comfortable 50 wpm with 1 mistake every now and then. It just takes some getting used to with the space bar since you either need to hit it center or hard on the side. The only thing I see wrong with the s7 is like you said the function mess they made. Which really isn't a problem after a while since you can create your own bindings.

 

I did not have to get used to typing on my AB9. Started typing like a wizard from the get go. Having black keys is probably 100X nicer then the lighter ones used on the S7 that lacks contrast.. basically, having very little contrast. Samsung also has the fn lock key making that extra row extremely easy to use. Also, everyone says the 3 lbs is no biggie for the AB9 plus. Thats its comparable to an air etc.. But believe me, the older 2.6 lb is noticeable lighter and I carry it with one hand all the time.. It was a unique form factor for an ultrabook taking it to extreme thin/light form factor. Battery life is really not that bad on the AB9. The trackpad is every bit as nice as the air's. I do not miss touch one bit. In fact, I'm glad I don't have to make the screen dirty. I'd bet that most people given both machines on this forum would choose the older ivy bridge AB9 over the plus version 5 to 1. People keep waiting and waiting for the higer res, heavier glossy version when they would probably be happier with the old version all along. And if that one is still available on the MS store for a 1000 bucks they should just jump all over it.

 

Interesting. According to this site, at 50 cm FHD at 13.3" display is exactly the limit of what one can distinguish with excellent vision.
I haven't looked at scaling in depth, but the way it works I guess looking at it at 100% or 150% doesn't change anything in reference to distinguishing pixels?

Edit: A bad forum habit, posted before reading next posts -- excellent work, StefanHamminga.

 

Just called the Samsung Experience store in Stratford, London again for an update. They say it has now been delayed indefinitely and they have no date as to when it will be released.

Sounds like Samsung were waiting for Windows 8.1 to be finished before releasing the laptop, so at this rate could be at least 1+ months away from hitting retail channels.

All seems to tie in with the semi-fake reviews that are clearly Samsung led to try and string out the release a bit longer until they are ready to release.

 

Windows 8.1 has already been shipped to manufacturers, so that does not seem to be a reason for any delay. Honestly, throughout this entire thread, the one big unifying theme has been how little the "Samsung Experience" stores know about Samsung products. Maybe it is delayed, who knows, but I take that source with a grain of salt.

One thing I really don't get is this belief that the reviews are fake. This is a new version of one of the best reviewed ultrabooks ever. Why is it surprising it has good reviews? Those sites are seemingly reputable, and have published negative reviews of other products. It does not appear they are sham sites just providing fluff reviews. So why are people assuming the reviews are fake?

Just because the laptop doesn't have 8gb of ram, does not mean it is going to self-destruct on opening. Samsung is a successful company; they know if they make a good product, it will sell. And if they make a bad product, it won't. I'm sure that 4gb will be more than enough for the majority of users' needs. And if you happen to need more power, then maybe this laptop (or ultrabooks in general) isn't for you.

 

It's 2013. The "it's an ultrabook" excuse doesn't fit anymore. EVERY SINGLE serious ultrabook launched after Haswell has an 8GB RAM option, Samsung is the one lacking here and I don't know what benefit or good you do to the market by accepting below average product. If the customer doesn't make some noise, outcry, express their opinion or whatever you want to call it what is the point of this hardware community then. The common user doesn't go to forums and so don't expect to come here and hear only compliments about the products, many people have different demands and want them fulfilled.

 

If I could interject at this point in the discussion, that here on NBR, everybody is entitled to have their opinion and, for the most part, to express that opinion. Among the few kinds of opinions that may not be expressed, are ones that attempt to belittle or disrespect other members and/or their opinions. It is Number One in our forum rules (that was a link):

It's hardly ever a problem here in the Samsung forum. And for that I am grateful. Everybody please help keeping it that way

 

I'm certainly not saying that there is not appropriate to complain about a product, and I apologize if that's how you took my comment. My point is simply that the computer is what it is; if you need more power, and the B9+ does not have sufficient power, then maybe you should be looking at a different computer. I think it's been established that the B9+ will have an 8GB option, it's just not announced yet. If you can't wait for it to be announced, then Samsung will suffer the loss of your business. If enough people decide not to wait, Samsung will (if it is smart) change their procedures for next time.

All told, IMO the value of the announced B9+ is amazing. Hell, it's selling in UK for 1300 pounds, which equals roughly $2,000USD, and selling in the US for $1,399. It's very similar to the MBA, has a similar price, yet has a MUCH more impressive screen. I agree that it would have only cost a few more dollars to put in 8GB, but they decided not to do that, and perhaps they will regret that decision. But if you are looking at the specs of this laptop, I feel the price is actually very good (at least in the US).

I would also note that the other "serious ultrabooks" that come with 8GB are more expensive that the B9+.

 

And don't forget that some of us on this forum swooped in and preordered the AB9+ on Amazon for 1215.00. I still content that that is a tremendous value even if the specs are a bit underwhelming. Sure, I would prefer an 8gb option with 256gb but I'm certainly not willing to pay a 600-1000 dollar premium to get it (prices taking initial discount into account). It is still my contention that Samsung should revamp their online store and offer made to order options in a manner similar to Sony or Dell. That would help to appease many both on this forum and not. I have asked on this thread on more than one occasion why that is not Samsung's standard practice and I have yet to receive even a servicable answer. They make mult options of everything else they sell, why limit the notebook hardware?

 

I tend to agree with you here. I too have read some other reviews from each respective site and they seem reputatable enough. Perhaps it would be better to look at the reviews as more of a first impression (instead of an in depth analysis) rather than dismiss them as fake. Also, its prudent to remember that the in depth reviews from sources such as CNET, Anandtech and Mobiletechreviews are not always released in a timely fashion.

 

Good post. It´s been alot of stupid posts in this thread lately.

 

I'm a photographer. The most resource extensive thing I do in Photoshop is blend bokeh panoramas from 40-60 images. Even then, I rarely go over 2-3GB of RAM. So 4GB is good enough. This ultrabook is perfect for me. One more week and it'll be in my hands (assuming Amazon don't screw it up).

 

I would like 8gb as I sometimes run VMs and you can quickly run out of ram with only 4. 128 disk would be ok just but with w8 and office 2013 plus a few other things installed it won't go far. 256gb is the logical choice if they offer it.

 

I may have exceed myself. I apologize for that. Just got a little tired of people saying what is enough for others.

You can get a Macbook Air 13" with i7, 8GB and 256GB SSD for £1,339.00 in UK.
You can get a Macbook Air 13" with i5, 8GB and 256GB SDD for $1,399.00 un the US.

Macbook lacks high-resolution screen and touch but has a much better battery life and a more expensive processor (for manufacturers).

No they aren't.

 

I feel you are underestimating the value of the QHD screen. The difference between that and the 1440x900 screen on the MBA is tremendous, and that's not to mention the touchscreen capability which, whether you like touch screen or not, is more expensive than non-touch. I also note that the MBA is almost two-tenths of an inch thicker than the B9+ (almost 40%). I agree that no PC will compete with Apple on battery life, but IMO the B9+ is a much superior laptop to the MBA.

Again, my point is that if the B9+ is not sufficient for your needs, then you are free to choose another laptop that is. But just because it's not good for your needs, does not mean it is not a great machine being sold at a great price.

 

The thing is not their being 'good', but rather their being undetailed, if not sweeping. I don't care if they are fake, there are simply misconceived.

 

I have a netbook right now (HP dm1z) that allows 8GB ram. I believe I've had it since 2010-2011 so there goes the size argument.

Also none of the RAM is soldered onto the board, so it's up to the user, as it should be..

Does it really make sense that Samsung, in 2013 solders a 4GB chip onto a motherboard when 8GB is available for $20 more ?

Imagine if all manufacturers did it. I haven't owned one notebook, netbook, or ultrabook in the last 6 years that soldered in the memory.

 

No, it doesn't make any sense. So my question to you is, why do they continue to do it?

 

Maybe it's more profit for them ? The chip itself is cheaper and maybe the manufacturing process is cheaper since it can be placed onto the board along with the other components. Then if the user's memory requirements increase, they'd have to go out and buy another machine.

That's just a guess.

 

A little history, the original S9 X3A actually supported 8GB of RAM. When they moved to the new thinner chassis, they also began using a 4GB DDP which was unavailable at 8GB capacity. So that made some sense. However, later versions of the S9 (X3E, X3F) began using commonplace single-channel 4GB modules. This was clearly a cost saving measure. That they didn't offer an 8GB option was also an annoyance.

We don't know if they have returned to the DDP in the AB9+ or not, according to their road map 8GB DDP should now be available. Either way, I believe the only reason 8GB has not become the standard is because they will put it only in the i7 model. Since they don't allow customization like Apple, Dell, Sony, countless others, they will probably charge $100-$200 more for something that costs them no more than $20. Shameless. But if you are a graphics professional (I am not) and can get by with 4GB, maybe the AB9+ is still the machine for you. Though you might consider Asus, if they have straightened out their build quality:

ASUS Zenbook UX301 will have 2,560 x 1,440 touchscreen beneath Gorilla Glass 3 case (video)

 

I think it's a shame to sell high class ultrabooks with only 4gb.

Of course they will do it as long as enough people buy it.

I wrote Samsung and told i wont do that.

You guys can write them too.

 

I am speculating here, but I think Samsung bought a large quantity of these 4GB single channel RAM sticks, which allows them to reduce cost (nice bonus for some Program Manager and Supply Chain folks), with the intention of using them in the X3Es, X3Fs and X3Gs, and maybe even beyond.

One RAM slot on the X3E and X3F motherboards gives these models the same 4GB offered on the previous Series 9s (hoping that few notice its single channel). However, to give the Book 9 enthusiasts the 8GB dual channel RAM that they have been asking for, they took out one exhaust fan to make room for the second stick of RAM. So effectively we will get two Book 9 models so that they can offer a 4GB model (one RAM slot populated) and an 8GB model (two RAM slots populated), all while using the same RAM sticks as the X3Es and X3Fs.

 

I'm sorry but I suppose that's not how things work. Samsung has a whole line of low end notebooks where they can use their 4GB memory sticks. It's okay to offer users a 4GB option though. Limit your premium line in the other hand sounds stupid to me.

 

I don't think the 4GB modules cost that much in the first place, Samsung probably makes their own (not that they always use their own superior components). The DDP is perhaps expensive enough to justify the savings along with the fact few would notice the switch. As for removing a fan so they can do 2x4GB, I sure hope they wouldn't do anything so foolish. I imagine accommodating that redesign alone would be far more costly than using an 8GB module in all models.

Unfortunately, Samsung's track record is that they have always cut at least one corner on the premium line.

 

Is there another reason that you think they removed one of the fans? The second RAM slot is the best that I can come up with.

 

The i7 with 8GB DDR3 is almost here!! $1820 price tag. 128GB ssd is currently listed :-/...

NP940X3G-K04US

ATIV BOOK 9 PLUS I7-4500U 8GB 128GB 13.3IN QHD W8 3YR WARR

Samsung NP940X3G-K04US Np940x3g - Intel - Core I7 - 4500u - 1.8 Ghz - Ddr3 Sdram - Ram: 8 Gb - 128 Gb - Np940x3gk04us :

MacMall | Samsung Electronics NP940X3G - INTEL - CORE I7 - 4500U - 1. NP940X3G-K04US

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I am hoping the 128GB is a mistake, as Samsung usually puts 256GB in the 04/05 models.

 

Wow, that's an insane price tag. Offensively insane.

 

University has started and there are still no nice laptops out, shoulda just pre-ordered when it was 1200.

 

Agree. Especially for 128gb SSD. Silver lining; they will probably be on clearance/sale sooner than later.

 

There is a new test on NBC on the Dell XPS 12. I noticed that they mentioned that, at idle, the XPS's fan would stop **so they would only be measuring the room's base level of 29 dB(A)***" I was wondering if 29dB(A) could still be loud enough in a fan to be annoying, depending on type of noise. Of course, it should also be noted that NBC, to my knowledge, don't measure where "your ears actually are".

 

Well at least theres some hope that they will release an i7 8 gb version, guess we'll have to wait for the official word on it...

 

30db is the noise level of a quiet rural area so you shouldn't be annoyed.