Samsung Recovery Problem on Windows 8.1

Hi all ,this is my first time to post in the forum and i hope to get my problem solved

First of all my notebook is Samsung NP550P5C (15.6")
Specifications :
intel core i7 (3630QM) @2.40GHz - 6MB Cache Memory
8 GB RAM DDR3 - 1600MHz
Nvidia Geforce GT650M - 2GB VRAM

it came with Windows 8 64x Single Language Pre-installed
and for my mistake i've updated to Windows 8.1 Preview ,and now i want to rollback to windows 8
i've tried pressing F4 at BIOS and it seems to be starting but then nothing happens and it boots to windows
then i've tried samsung recovery application but it said "This computer doesn't support recovery" ,so i thought that it's outdated version ,so i launched Samsung SW update and downloaded the latest Samsung Recovery application ,it automatically uninstalled the previous one and then it says "A recovery partition does not exist. installation will be cancelled" and it keeps getting this as i launched the Samsung Recovery installation !​

so now i don't have any recovery application installed ,and i want to install windows 8 cuz 8.1 has a lot of issues and incompatibility with a lot of apps and games :/
and btw i've checked my partitions using EaseUS Partition Master and i found that i have 2 recovery partitions one for 1 GB and the second for 23 GB and they are full of files not empty




Anyone knows solution for this problem ?
Thanks​

 

Hi doo37, welcome to NBR.

Windows 8.1 preview generally has not been compatible with Samsung laptops so far. Hopefully an update (either from Microsoft or from Samsung or both) will improve that.

That said, I have not heard other reports that the 8.1 preview would mess us the Recovery. And indeed, it did not do so when I tested 8.1 on my own (older) Series 7 some time ago.

I wonder if something else messed up your Recovery, but you only discovered it now that you wanted to undo Win 8.1. Do you think that is possible, and do you have any idea what it could have been?

I ask because it may affect the solutions. For example, if you have used 3rd party tools to backup and restore partitions on the disk, it is most likely that your Recovery partitions are intact, but the F4 link is broken. This can be difficult to fix, but is still preferable to the Recovery partition(s) being corrupted or messed up.

Independently of that, you may be able to get rid of Win 8.1 by using Windows System Restore ( Control Panel - System - System protection - System Restore). If you can roll back to the Restore Point created just before 8.1 installed, you may get your Win8 working right again.

If you manage to get Windows back in working order -- and assuming your Recovery partitions are intact -- there is a chance that the Samsung Recovery Windows app will load and run properly. The Samsung Recovery Windows app looks for (and depends on) intact Recovery partitions. If it finds them, sometimes it will repair a broken F4 link -- but not always.

Let us know how that goes, and we'll will take the Recovery issues from there.

Meantime, be very careful not to do anything with EaseUS or similar tools for now. Samsung Recovery is a sensitive creature that is easily disturbed. You can read more about it the recent thread linked below:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sam...red-recovery-partition-samsung-notebooks.html

 

Thanks Dannemand for your quick reply

what i have done before in the partitions when i just bought my notebook is that it came with only one partition C: (904 GB) so i've used a tool to resize the "C" partition to 200 GB and create another one 705 GB ,but i didn't touch any of the other partitions

but what i've done when the recovery didn't work on Windows 8.1 ,is that i used "AOMEI Partition Assistant" and assigned the "SAMSUNG_REC" and the "SAMSUNG_REC2" to letters. ie: to "G" and "H" and opened them through "my computer" and checked them ,but i didn't move or delete anything (i just checked them to ensure there are files) ,and then i used the same tool to remove the letters and undo this step.
is this can mess anything with the recovery ?? ,btw i've done this after the recovery was not working

I don't know exactly what you mean by the F4 link is broken.. but just to clarify more when i press the F4 button in BIOS the Samsung logo disappeared and i get black screen then after 2-3 seconds the loading circles of windows 8 came loading on the black screen without any logo then windows boots and nothing else happen.

when i opened the "System Restore" ,i found 3 events but none of them is before upgrading to windows 8.1 ,but there is something can help.. one of them is before uninstalling "Samsung Recovery" so i can restore it and tell you what exactly happens in the Samsung Recovery application ,Should i do this ?

 

OK, I think I understand.

I want to make sure that you're trying to boot Recovery properly using F4. You start with the computer powered off, then immediately after Power On, you press F4. Don't press and hold it, but press it a few times - 2-3 times per second. You may have to power off a few times to catch it.

If you cannot seem to catch F4 before Windows loads, you may have to temporarily disable Fast Startup in Windows Power Options control panel under Change what the power buttons do (see below). Then Shutdown. Now you should be able to press F4 after Power On and load Recovery -- assuming the Recovery partition is intact. (Remember to change Fast Startup back afterwards, it's a good feature.)



If this still doesn't work, I think F4 may have been destroyed by the tool you used to re-size your partitions. Which tool was that? I understand that you didn't change the Recovery partitions, but if that tool updated the entire partition table (instead of only the entries for the affected partitions), that would destroy the F4 link. Recovery is loaded is through a special link hidden in the partition table, and 3rd party tools don't understand that.

Normally, this would't prevent you from running the Samsung Recovery app in Windows (although some features require that F4 link to be intact). But we have many other reports that Samsung utilities don't work in Windows 8.1, and that is probably why the Samsung Recovery Windows app won't run.

Please try a few more times to boot Recovery using F4 as described above. If you succeed, go ahead and restore to factory, and we shall both be very happy

If that doesn't work, the next steps are fairly drastic and A LOT of work -- and not even guaranteed to solve it.

There is also the option of calling Samsung Service. They will re-image the drive for a fee; but maybe they can waive the fee in this case, since you simple installed a Win 8.1 upgrade -- which you couldn't know would have such a fatal effect.

 

okay ,i've disabled "Fast Startup" from control panel as you told me ,then i went to BIOS Setup (pressing F2 at start) and i changed the "Fast BIOS Mode" to "Disabled" ,and switched the "OS Mode Selection" to "CSM and UEFI OS" instead of "UEFI OS" (because this makes the the two words "F2 to enter Setup" and "F4 to enter Recovery" appear at booting) ,then i turned off the notebook ,waited 3-4 seconds then switched it on.. Now once it got me the Samsung logo and the two options downward ,i kept pressing "F4" until it writes down "Recovery.. please wait" ,and then it get me the same blackscreen and the loading like usual.
I've done all the above steps to be sure that i press the "F4" button in the right time and that unfortunately the problem is related to the recovery itself or the partition.

The tool i used before is probably "AOMEI Partition Assistant" or "EaseUS Patition Master" i don't remember exactly ,but i only use it to resize the "C" partition and then i used the "Windows Disc Management" to create the "D" partition.

and i've tried to do the system restore as we planned but i got a strange error :/


So now i'm ready for the next step and i wish we get a solution for this issue
Thanks in advance mate

 

Thanks you for the update.

Unfortunately this is not what I had hoped: Clearly your F4 link works (since it begins to load Recovery). If it had "only" been that which was broken, I would have directed you to this post that describes how to add Recovery to your Windows Boot Menu. This would then allow you to boot Recovery so you can restore to factory from there.

But this is clearly something else, and it is NOT the F4 link that's the problem. If indeed your Recovery is corrupted, I am sorry to say there may not be a way to restore it.

Something caught my attention in your last post: You shouldn't have to change BIOS settings in order to run Recovery. And you certainly don't want to disable UEFI, as this could in itself cause problems with a GPT partitioned disk such as yours. I suggest you restore your BIOS settings to default (including SecureBoot and OS Mode Selection) then try F4 again from power off. You may not have seen the F4 message while Windows Fast Startup was enabled, but you should be able to use F4 now. Regardless of whether you see the F4 message, just start pressing F4 repeatedly, immediately after Power On.

If this doesn't work either, I have to assume your Recovery has been damaged, in which case you only have two options:

1) Wipe your current Windows partition and perform a clean install of Windows 8 (we can help with that). Once it is running, you may be able to install Samsung Recovery Solution (the Windows app) and there is a chance it will see your Recovery partition and allow you to backup the Factory Image to a USB stick, as described in this thread. That USB backup can then be used to re-image the entire drive -- or you can continue with the clean Win8 install you made.

2) Have Samsung re-image the drive for you. Since this PC came with Win8, it must be still under warranty, and I think there is a good chance they will do this for you.

I am crossing my fingers that you are able to boot Recovery once you restore your BIOS settings to default. It would actually make good sense.

 

I've tried many times with enabled and disabled "Fast Startup" ,and also reset settings to default in BIOS Setup ,but unfortunately it didn't work at all :/
so now i don't have any choice except the last 2..

1) How can i do this if i don't have any Windows 8 Installation DVD ? ,and also how can i install windows to a GPT HDD without erasing all the data on it ? ( keep in mind that the "D" drive has 584 GB used and i don't have that much of the free storage to copy my data before converting to MBR ,I've read many threads about converting it but i think it has many disadvantages like the limited Primary partitions ,losing UEFI and also losing Warranty :/ )

2) Yes i've bought it March 2013 and it still under warranty ,i think that this is the best choice we have ,I hope not to refuse it as i read in the warranty rules that it's not related to any software came pre-installed on notebook.

Thanks Dannemand ,Waiting your reply..

EDIT : I have another question..
If the tool i've used is the one responsible for the recovery partition corruption ,then the other "1 GB : Samsung_REC" partition will be also corrupted ,and as far as i know that the 1 GB partition is responsible for the UEFI boot ,while the UEFI boot is working properly for me..
correct me plz if i'm wrong cuz this is only my guess

 

Thanks again for the update. You are very patient!

We could guide you through a Win8 installation, although it would require overwriting the current Windows partition, so any data you have there must be backed up first. But it requires Win8 installation media. If you have an MSDN/TechNet subscription, you can download it here. If you are a student, you may be able to get it from Microsoft Dreamspark.

I think you should contact Samsung and see if they will help under warranty. You are right that they could deny it, but if you focus on the fact that you merely upgraded to Win 8.1 and then wanted to factory restore using Recovery, I think there is a chance they will help you. You found the Recovery feature broken when you needed it the most.

Make sure to backup any data you have before sending in the machine for service.

Please keep us posted whatever you choose

 

Thanks again Dannemand for your great help
but as i don't have an MSDN/TechNet subscription and Microsoft Dreamspark not available for now in my country (will get my ID the next year) ,so i have to keep trying myself until sending it to Samsung ( i'm loving to get more knowledge about these Stuff )

but one more thing i found on this Thread post by SergioA
and i've done what he said and now there is a new thing worth to try..
i opened SAMSUNG_REC\WinClon\Admin\Setup\WinUI\Recovery.exe and Surprise !! it installs the Samsung Recovery again !!
and also there are many tools like "Admin Tool" and other apps related to Recovery..
So any new help here ??

EDIT : Wohoooo.. I've fixed the F4 Link ,now recovery boots by pressing F4 at BIOS
all i've done is that i launched the "RecoverySettingsSV.exe" tool as administration , found in "WinClon\Admin\Setup\Tools" and it opened cmd window writing some texts about partitions and then i restarted and keep pressing F4.. Recovery Boots !!

I'm very happy now but we got another problem ,i've captured it with my mobile..
as soon as i started to recover the Image this screen comes first

then i got this screen :/


Any help ??

 

WOW, that was impressive. Very well done!

I am heading out now for the day, but I will definitely study closes tonight. I am very interested if there is something here that may be useful for other members.

 

Okay..
Now for being playing with the recovery for a while i assume that my recovery partition is not corrupted as the recovery already read the factory image and i'm also able to see what are the installed apps on the factory image ,and already succeeded to export the factory image to another partition "D"

So i think the problem i'm having now is because of spliting "C" drive into "C" and "D" ,cuz i found a tool for Lenovo laptops that merge them to get rid of a problem similar to this.

What do you think about it ?

EDIT : here is the link btw : Partition Structure Hotfix for Windows 8

 

Hi again doo37,

I am sorry, I have been away for my PC for almost two days. I finally had a chance to read up on this issue and the solution you found. I am still very impressed that you were able to fix the F4 link by running those SRS utilities directly from the Recovery Partition. It makes sense, since SRS is just a Windows app running off a WinPE partition.

Again thanks for sharing that!

I would definitely, DEFINITELY, suggest now that you F4 boot Recovery and create a bootable backup of your Factory Image to a USB stick. You probably need a 32GB USB stick to do this. I you don't have one, buy one! This is a great new feature in SRS6 which we didn't have in SRS5. It basically creates a backup on the USB stick of your factory image (ie the original installation) AND the Recovery software (when you check the Create Boot Disk option). It allows you to run Recovery any time, regardless of how messed up your disk is.

There are other tools you can create now that you have Recovery working (such as the USB Admin Tool mentioned in the threads I linked originally). But those are only important with SRS5 which doesn't have this bootable Factory Image backup feature that SRS6 has.

Once you have this USB backup, you can boot that USB stick and let it completely re-partition and re-image your disk with the Factory Image. The thread linked below has hundreds of posts discussing this procedure:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sam...unge-np770z5e-np780z5e-np870z5e-np880z5e.html

Note that you will lose everything on the disk by doing this, so make sure you have backups of your data. But I think it's the only way to get everything running smoothly again, because clearly something is still messed up.

I do NOT believe that the problem came from splitting your C drive (Windows partition) into two. Lots of users do this (myself included) without causing Recovery problems. In fact, my laptop asked me when I first started it whether I wanted to do this. I still think the problem came because the utility you used either was not fully UEFI compliant OR because it messed with partition table entries other than the partitions you changed.

Once again, great job getting your Recovery to boot again

 

I tried this on a blank (no partitions) hard drive, and the Samsung Recovery (version 6) did NOT restore nor re-partition my system. I created a bootable Factory Image (and I did boot from it), but it gave me an error message about not being able to find a require image and failed.

Same with a Windows 8 Recovery create image (with the Recovery partition option selected during creation).


When I manually created empty partitions with the special GPT attributes it worked.

See disk wiped clean - won't allow me to recover - xda-developers

 

rbeede ,it's weird..
For me it already read the factory image but the problem for me is in something related to the partitions as Dannemand mentioned (maybe the tool that i've used to re-partition the HDD)
but i haven't tried to export the factory image on a flash drive and boot from it yet (successfully exported the factory image to HDD) ,and also i'm hearing some bad reviews about Samsung BIOS to not be able to boot from USB Flash Disks.

However ,i'll try it and feedback

 

Hi guys, I've been out a lot and didn't see these posts: I definitely recommend creating that bootable Factory Image backup, even if you're not going to use it right away. It's a great backup to have. Do test after creating it that it will boot properly, then keep it safe.

If the USB backup has problems re-imaging your drive when you try to use it, just wipe the disk using the DISKPART CLEAN command (or even the DISKPART CONVERT command to make sure it's GPT). You can boot any Win7 or Win8 setup disk (or even a Recovery disk) and open the Command Prompt (Shift-F10) in order to do this.

Sounds like that's what rbeede did. Good job there!

Edit: Of course, I mean OF COURSE, make sure you have data backups, since this will wipe your disk.

 

I'll try the USB restore method soon ,just waiting to backup all the data on my HDD (600 GB used :/)
but just asking.. is the recovery partition will be restored when i recover the Factory Image ? ,I mean that after formatting the HDD and re-partition it ,the Recovery Partitions will still be there ?

 

If you have a working Bootable Factory Image backup on a USB Recovery stick, it should re-partition the drive, wiping everything and re-create the partitions on it, including the Recovery partitions. You should not partition the drive manually, it does it for you.

The DISKPART commands I mentioned should only be used if the USB Recovery complains about the existing partitions.

One warning: We have had some reports of USB backups being incredibly slow and restores not being reliable. Those have proven to be caused by certain USB sticks which Recovery doesn't like. If backup of Factory Image to the USB stick takes several hours, I would not trust the backup. I would exchange the stick for another and try again.

 

I also have this problem of my Samsung DP-500, Unfortunately, the recover and partition problems were still exist! I copied the hidden partition from 'SAMSUNG_REC' by EaseUS Partition. I can execute the setup file. But I cannot complete the installation procedure! And error is same as prompted dialog!

 

Hello hubert77, welcome to NBR.

I assume your model was delivered with Win8, correct? That's important because the Recovery versions are different for Win7 and Win8 models.

Are you saying you used EaseUS to create an image backup of your Samsung Recovery partition and later restored it? Win8 models have two Samsung Recovery partitions (SAMSUNG_REC and SAMSUNG_REC2); did you backup and restore them both? If NOT, there is zero chance of getting it working. Don't spend more time on it in that case.

Generally, Recovery partitions must be backed up using Recovery itself. 3rd party tools (such as EaseUS) destroy the F4 link, and normally there is no way to fix it, unless you have tools created with Recovery originally. See this thread for details on that, covering both SRS5 and SRS6. There is also this recent post, which elaborates on backups for SRS6.

If you are referring to the fix described by doo37 on the last page, that was very impressive, possibly a bit of a miracle, and the only example we have heard of that so far. As I recall, he didn't actually delete and restore his partitions, just changed them with EaseUS, which may explain why it worked for him. (If others have succeeded with it, please share that. I do not have SRS6 myself and am unable to test it.)

 

Sorry for being offline for a long time because of my exams ,but i would like to tell you that my problem was completely solved by a simple way..
after the official release of Windows 8.1 ,i think that Samsung had updated it's apps to be compatible with Windows 8.1
This time i just got an update for Samsung Recovery through the SW Update app.. and i've downloaded it ,and it installed properly
i rebooted the laptop.. pressed F4 till booted in the Recovery ,and this time when i choose to recover it begin the process without any errors..
and now i'm running the Stock Windows 8 that came pre-installed ,and everything running properly :thumbsup:

Special Thanks to Dannemand for his effort

 

Hi everyone,
I have kinda similar problem. My Chronos 7 came with Windows 7 but recently I installed Windows 8.1 on it. Now, when I press F4, it does start Samsung Recovery Solution but after a few minutes it says something like "Samsung Recovery Solution is not compatible with this computer..." and then computer restarts.
I do not want to revert back to Windows 7 using the recovery, I want to use Windows 8.1. But I wanted to be able to create a disk image back using Samsung Recovery Solution for Windows 8.1 installation so I could recover it whenever I needed. But the software is not work and is showing the error I mentioned above.
Moreover, the when I install Samsung Recovery Solution software in Windows 8.1 after downloading it from SW Update, it shows some error about GPT partition or something like that and does not proceed.
I installed Windows 8.1 following instructions given here: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sam...eries-chronos-laptops-expresscache-print.html
Please help.

 

Hi Elixir,

If your PC came with Win7, then your problem is VERY different from anything described in this thread, even if some symptoms and error messages appear to be the same.

Background:

Samsung Win7 PCs (like yours) were delivered with Windows installed in the good old BIOS mode running off a good old MBR disk, and using Samsung Recovery Solution 5 (SRS5). Win8 PCs are delivered running in UEFI mode (a new alternative to BIOS) off a GPT disk (a new alternative to MBR), and using Samsung Recovery Solution 6 (SRS6). The two environments are very different.

The guide you followed was written in a different era, without attention to this difference between old Win7 laptops (BIOS/MBR) and new Win8 ones (UEFI/GPT). A large percentage of problems posted here are caused by users not knowing (and not being properly warned about) the differences caused by UEFI and GPT. The following Microsoft articles are a good introduction:

Understanding Disk Partitions
Windows and GPT FAQ

It is possible to upgrade Win7 to Win8 on an MBR disk -- and even to clean install Win8 and update to 8.1 -- and still have SRS5 working (although it knows only about Win7). In fact I have that on my old NP700Z3A: It was delivered with Win7, I added a second partition and clean installed Win8, and recently upgraded to Win 8.1, so that I now have Win8 and 8.1 installed on two partitions. And my Recovery (SRS5) is still working. But that's by keeping my disk MBR and running in legacy BIOS mode.

The opposite is generally more tricky: Owners of Win8-delivered laptops who want to downgrade to Win7 are faced with the choice of converting to BIOS/MBR (which requires wiping their disk) or installing Win7 in UEFI mode (which is historically troublesome on Samsung laptops).

That was the background. Now to your problem:

From that GPT error message, it would sound as if your disk was converted to GPT during the 8.1 installation. But that can not have happened on its own without your active participation -- and would have wiped the disk.

Can you reproduce the exact GPT error message you received?

Did you change any BIOS settings as part of the install?

Could you verify that your disk is still MBR: Open its Properties in Device Manager, select the Volumes tab and click Populate (as shown below).



A more likely explanation for that GPT error message is that the Samsung Recovery Windows app is confused about running on Win 8.1 while the Recovery partition is Win7. The Samsung Recovery Windows app is useless once you leave the Windows version of the original Recovery (Win7 in your case). What's important is that F4 works, since that's where the real work is done anyway.

I do remember one or two other members reporting here that clean install of Win 8.1 borked their Recovery. If that is indeed the case, then it's most likely caused by partition changes.

I think your best chance is to backup your current Windows installation and re-install Win7. Just a quick install so that you can (hopefully) boot and run Recovery with F4. If that succeeds, you can make a proper backup of Recovery as described in this post (and the post linked in it under (2)).

You can also try the fixes described by doo37 earlier in this thread, or the steps by SergioA in this post. It's a long shot, but probably couldn't hurt.

But please make backups of any important data before you try fixing this!

 

Hi Dannemand,
First of all thanks a lot for such a detailed response.
Now to your questions;
The exact GPT error I receive is following;
Failed to install Samsung Recovery Solution 5.
Error details: GPT not supported by system.



I did not temper with any BIOS related thing during installation except for one thing. I change one setting in F2 Setup at bootup that was something like UEFI or BIOS...for legacy OS. I can look it up but for that I would have to restart my system. So I would update this post after restarting. But I did it because that was instructed in the post I followed for installation.

Third, I check my disk's properties in Device Manager. It said Master Boot Record. As it says in the picture you posted.

I just want to be able to use the recovery software to create disk image and recover it (if needed) from the F4 key recovery software.

EDIT: The thing I changed in F2 Setup was "UEFI Boot Support". I enabled it.

 

Thank you for the update. That's the problem right there!

The install guide by asprobourboulis you referred to does not mention UEFI at all. I can understand if you installed from a WIndows Setup USB that was created as GPT, you might not have been able to boot it without enabling UEFI. Installing from DVD avoids this issue -- or use a Windows Setup USB created as MBR on Win7 models.

I understand your hard drive is still MBR (thank you). That would indicate Windows did NOT install in UEFI mode despite this change (probably because some partitions were still left on the drive).

You should now disable UEFI in BIOS, save that, power off/on, then try F4 again. Hopefully that will allow Recovery to run.

If you have problems running Windows after disabling UEFI, that means somehow it installed in UEFI mode despite the disk being MBR -- which shouldn't technically be possible, though I did see one or two similar reports about it. If that is the case, you need to re-install Windows with UEFI disabled.

I highly recommend installing from DVD instead of USB, as it avoids the issue of whether the Windows Setup USB is created as GPT or MBR, and ALSO avoids the boot issue on models with ExpressCache (which is the main reason for that install guide you used).

In fact, I recommend you use this install guide instead, which was written specifically to distinguish Win8 and Win7 models. Just follow the Win8 hints in the guide.

I hope this gets you going. Please keep us posted on your progress

 

I just tried it. After disabling UEFI support, the F4 recovery starts buts gives the same error as before (see image below). This same error shows up even when UEFI support is enabled.



You are right, I followed that specific guide to prevent Windows 8 from putting its 350MB system-reserved partition on ExpressCache.

You are also right about the MBR thing. Even though UEFI was enabled, Windows installed as MBR. May be because when following that guide to perform installation, I did not format whole hard drive (the 'clean' command), I only deleted the C drive where I wanted to install Windows, then create the 350 partition for Windows 8 reserve-partition, and create the C drive from remain space. This whole time another partition, about 750GB was neither deleted nor formatted, because I had a lot of data in there. So since I did not re-partition and re-format whole hard drive, it may be the reason Windows did not install as UEFI.

Now, to seek your advise on the issue, what I want to do is install Windows 8.1 (properly, so that SSD is available for use as ExpressCache), and also be avail to use F4 recovery option. After installing Windows 8.1, I would want to go to F4 recovery, and create a disk image for the volume on which I plan to install Windows, so that I am able to recover it if I need.

So what do you suggest? In your previous post you said that I should reinstall Windows 7. Do you still want me to do so? (I have Windows 7 disk that came with the laptop, would installing from that make everything right?) And if not, should I simply install Windows 8 as clean install following the instruction you provided as link?

And another question, which is slightly strange, suppose I achieve what I want to do. I install Windows 8.1, F4 recovery is working, I create an image for C drive (Windows installation). Since there is an image already in F4 recover (the Samsung image of Windows 7), and there would be the additional image of my Windows 8.1 installation. So would it mean that I can recover either one from F4 recovery? If it is possible, that would be very cool.

Thanks.

 

Thanks for the update. Too bad that disabling UEFI didn't fix recovery right there.

I just got up (I'm in US) but I'll take a closer look (and turn on my brain ) when I get to my PC in a few hours.

 

I just received the ATIV Book 6 (NP680Z5E) that came with Windows 8. I follow Samsung's instruction to updated it to Windows 8.1 smoothly (but took a while to do all the download and update). After that I continue to do the SW update and found the Recovery to be not compatible. Then I realize I did not do a image backup of the system before the update. Now the system runs fine but I cannot access F4 recovery. I did a whole drive image with EaseUS now. But I really want to restore the F4 function. Is there a way to do that?
Thanks in advance.

 

Hi billcsho,

We have heard a few examples of Win 8.1 clean install breaking Recovery, but so far not that upgrading Win8 to 8.1 would break it.

On the other hand, if you have restored an image backup using EaseUS (or other 3rd party imaging tools), that is almost guaranteed to destroy the F4 link. That is the reason you will see hundreds of posts around here recommending to use the features in Recovery to create image backups, because they preserve Recovery when they restore.

Once the F4 link is gone, it can be almost impossible to fix (unless you have a backup created with Recovery before it broke). You can try various options suggested in this post, which includes member doo37's report earlier in this thread.

With your PC being so new, I would contact Samsung (or the dealer) instead of spending hours on this. They can re-image the drive for you -- or maybe the store will swap it. If/when you get it fixed, make sure you create a backup as soon as possible.

The ideal backup is a Bootable Factory Image, using the Factory Image tab in Recovery (as described in this Samsung guide) and enabling the "Create Boot Disk" option. This backup must be made to a USB flash drive, 32GB required for most models. Avoid SanDisk drives because they work as fixed disks, not removable disks, which makes them incompatible with Recovery. With such as Bootable Factory Image backup, the entire disk can be re-imaged to factory state, Recovery partitions and all. There is more description in this post, including why having a secondary backup is often a good idea.

 

@elixir_pr:

I've been looking a bit more into your Recovery issue (for those just joining, this is about SRS5 on a Win7 computer after clean install of 8.1, very different from the SRS6 issues discussed earlier in this thread):

1) I get the same GPT error you do when trying to install the SRS5 Windows app under Win 8.1. I never even bothered to try that before, because I always assumed it wouldn't work outside of Win7. That error message is completely wrong, of course, since we're both on MBR disks with UEFI disabled. SRS5 probably just assumes that Win8 (and newer) must be running on a GPT disk. Just forget about the Recovery Windows app and always use F4 to boot Recovery on startup.

2) Simply having Win 8.1 installed does NOT make Recovery (F4) unworkable -- because mine still works and runs. Despite much trying, I cannot reproduce the kind of failure you're getting -- though I have not tried a Win 8.1 clean install. Letting 8.1 run for awhile, I DID notice that it insisted on "fixing disk errors" as part of its "Operation Busy Little Bees" (numerous background tasks always looking for something to do). And it turned out to be my Recovery partition it fixed. But even after letting it do its repairs, I was still able to run my Recovery.

3) One possible explanation for the incompatibility complaints you get from Recovery could be your partition layout: Maybe your manually created MSR partition (SYSTEM) doesn't look right to Recovery. A standard Win7 MSR partition is 100MB with ID 0x27. I don't have an MSR partition at all, booting straight from my Windows partition.

As previously suggested, you could try to perform a completely standard Win7 installation and let Windows Setup create the MSR. Don't use DISKPART: On the partition screen in Setup, just click Advanced, delete the current partitions (except Data and Recovery) and let Setup create a partition in the empty space. It will insert a 100MB MSR partition in front. You have to install from DVD, otherwise Setup will place your MSR on the iSSD. Again, follow this install guide.

OR you could try to simply delete the current partitions (except Data and Recovery) and see if Recovery (F4) will run once they're gone. That may just work.

However, before spending too much time on this, please consider if it's worth it: You could just forget about your Recovery and move on. Owners of Win8 models often don't have other Win8 install media, and losing Recovery can be a real problem. (Fortunately SRS6 on those Win8 models has a great feature for backing up its Factory Image, as described in my response to billcsho). But you have a Win7 DVD from Samsung -- and in any case can just download Win7 ISOs from Digital River.

Samsung Recovery's imaging features (particularly in the old SRS5) are easily surpassed by various 3rd party tools (Acronis etc). The only reason we always preach NOT to use those 3rd party tools, is because their destroy the F4 link. But they work great for backing up images of Windows partitions. So life may be easier for you without Recovery, using one of those 3rd party tools.

Whatever you choose, please keep us posted.

And once again, this case is a warning NOT to mess with Win 8.1 without having Recovery backups (and of course Data backups). And the ONLY known safe way to make those backups on Samsung laptops, is by using Recovery itself BEFORE starting out on any adventures. For SRS6 (Win8 models) use the easy procedure described in my post to billcsho (just above). For SRS5 (Win7 models) use the (more complicated) procedure in this post.

 

@Dannemand
So now I should first install Windows 7 from Samsung DVD? But I wanted to use Windows 8.1. What should I do about that?

Do you mean that I should start Window 7 setup and during selecting the drive, just delete those partitions and cancel the setup and when computer restarts, press F4?

 

Your Recovery is broken, and I don't know an easy fix with the current Win 8.1 installation in place. That's the reality.

If getting Recovery working is a high priority for you, you can try to either do a standard install of Win7 from a DVD, then see if Recovery will run. It may or it may not. Or just delete the current Windows and MSR partitions and leave the space empty. And yes, use Windows Setup to delete the partitions, then cancel out. Or use a Linux LiveCD (make sure UEFI is disabled in BIOS).

The purpose of this is just to get Recovery working, since it's currently broken.

Once (if) you get Recovery working, you can make a backup of it, using the post I linked. It's a bit of work with SRS5, creating a so-called USB Admin Tool and copying all files and folders on the Recovery partition to a backup drive.

Then you can try and run a Complete Restore in Recovery. This will re-partition the disk and create new Windows and MSR partitions with the factory installation. All data on the drive will be lost, but your computer will be back as Samsung intended, without the current partition problems.

Next, you can try again to make Recovery co-exist with Win 8.1. For that, I would recommend installing from DVD, and just format the existing Win7 partition (the one Recovery created for you when you restored) instead of deleting it. Do NOT touch the 100MB MSR partition (SYSTEM).

Alternatively, install Win8 (again from DVD, just format the existing Windows partition, don't touch the MSR) and verify that Recovery is still working. After that you can upgrade Win8 to 8.1, and hopefully Recovery will STILL work. That's how Win 8.1 got onto my PC (also SRS5) and my Recovery still works.

My other point is to consider whether preserving (or in this case repairing) and old Recovery with an old Windows version (which you have on DVD anyway) is worth the effort. SRS5 may not be able to create image backups of your Win 8.1 anyway, so the only purpose of having it will be so that you can restore to factory Win7. Using some other imaging tool to backup your Windows partitions may be an easier route in your case.

I am sorry if my previous posts were not so clear. I hope this makes sense

 

Yes, this all makes sense.
I would still want to try to make F4 SRS5 work with 8.1. So I will first attempt doing what you instructed. Now, I have 8.1 ISO as well as 8 ISO. Which one do you want me to install from DVD? I would burn the DVD and then use that. I am asking that because you asked me to install Windows 8 and them upgrade from that to 8.1. Is this required or should I install 8.1 straight.

Plus, as a last resort what softwares (preferably free) would you recommend for imaging if my plan does not work. Again, I want to be able to recover whole drive C (Windows installation) image from boot (in case my current OS is not able to boot).

Waiting for your reply, after that I will proceed with instructions you provided.
Thanks a lot again.

 

I actually just made a major update of my post, hopefully that answers some of your questions.

Once (if) you have working Recovery, it is tempting to just install Win 8.1 directly -- and I think it will work if you don't delete the existing Windows and MSR partitions. But I cannot say for sure. At least I know that installing Win8 then upgrading to 8.1 worked on mine.

And yes, making a complete image backup first is a good idea. I use paid software from Terabyte Unlimited, but many here use Acronis. Among free tools, I know many use EaseUS. I personally don't like that software, it's too intrusive, and we have reports that it broke Recovery just by adjusting partition sizes. For partition management, I love Minitool Partition Wizard, but I never tried its backup features. Finally, Linux LiveCDs have Clonezilla which has worked for some.

I really have to go now, my wife is waiting...

 

Thanks Dannemand.
I will get back to you after trying this. Starting now.

 

Hi Dennemand,
I just used the OS Recovery DVD from Samsung (came with my laptop) to install Windows 7. Now two things;
During the installation, I deleted the 100Mb MSR + C partition, and canceled out of setup and tried to run F4 recovery. But with MSR and C partition deleted pressing F4 would just restart the computer. I tried several times but the system would just repeatedly restart.

Then I put the OS recovery DVD that came with laptop back and installed Windows 7 on C partition. After the installation finished, I took out the disc and on boot pressed F4. This time the I was able to successfully enter the recovery, in fact I successfully recovered an image of C drive I had created a few months ago.
So yes, the recovery is working perfectly now.

Now, I want to install Windows 8.1 in a way that the recovery is intact. I will follow your instructions and not delete 100Mb MSR partition. But I do not have a writable DVD (only a few CD-Rs) to burn and also can't get any right now since theres a severe snow storm here (im in upstate NY). So is there a way to install Windows 8 or 8.1according to your instructions with a USB instead of DVD? Or should I wait until tomorrow and get a DVD?

 

Fantastic, great job so far!

I really think you should get a DVD instead of installing from USB. For users who are just reinstalling Win7, leaving the MSR in place is enough to overcome the ExpressCache issue, because the original MSR will just boot the same Windows partition as before.

But you're installing Win8 (or 8.1) and Win7's boot loader (which is currently on that MSR) cannot boot Win8 or 8.1, and you'd need to jump through hoops to copy the new MSR from the iSSD (where Setup incorrectly puts it) to the HDD (overwriting the current one).

To be fair, I did see one report indicating that 8.1 Setup no longer makes that mistake when installing from USB. But I don't know for sure.

Just get a good nights sleep, then get some blank DVDs tomorrow. It'll be a lot easier.

Again, great work so far

 

Hi again,
Sorry for being away. I was really busy with something.
I wrote and wasted a few DVDs, writing would repeatedly get failed for some reason so I decided to install with USB again and try to follow the instructions, but I ran into a huge problem.
As you had asked me to, I did not delete the 100Mb MSR created by/for Windows 7 installation. Now, I must tell you that my Disk 0 (HDD) had a C drive where I intended to install Windows 8 (previously Win 7 was installed here), my data drive D, and a SAMSUNG_REC.
So, all these drives add upto four. So I cannot create another 350Mb drive for Windows 8 to be used by it as its MSR drive. It has to do something with MBR (or something else) allowing only 4 partitions. So, since Windows 8 is not able to create another 350Mb MSR, it uses 350Mb from SSD, which I was trying to avoid in the first place.
I also tried used DISKPART to create 350Mb drive from the C drive, it lets me create the 350Mb drive but then I can not create another drive from the remaining unallocated space.
I remember you mentioning that you do not have the 350Mb drive (I may be wrong). How did you do that? Or is there a workaround or is it the end of road for me?

 

MBR disks can only have 4 primary partitions, that limitation is one of the reasons for GPT.

But in your case, in order to avoid disturbing the partition table (now that your Recovery is finally working again) I wanted you to simply install Win8 on the old Win7 partition (format it first) and not create any new partitions. Again, no DISKPART. If you install from a DVD, it will re-use the existing 100MB MSR.

That install guide you used (that tells you to delete partitions are create a new 350MB MSR) is the one that got you in trouble. It doesn't take Recovery into account. Just leave that guide behind and follow the guide I pointed you to. Even though it is mostly for Win7, it points out specifically where Win8 is different.

If you install from USB (instead of DVD) Setup will incorrectly put the MSR on your iSSD (as you found). As long as you leave the original Win7 100MB MSR on the HDD intact, you can use the BCDBOOT command (the same one you used before) to create boot files on it. Just make sure to use the correct drive letters. Alternatively, you can use the instructions in this post to copy the boot files from the MSR on the iSSD to the MSR on the HDD. You also may have to ensure that the MSR on the HDD is marked Active (for that you have to use DISKPART).

And no, you don't strictly need an MSR in order for Windows (or even Recovery) to run. But in your case, since we finally fixed Recovery by getting the partition table back in order -- and you still have your F4 link intact -- I highly recommend you just leave the existing partitions in place. That F4 link is VERY easily lost when you mess with partitions -- that's how most people lose their Recovery, and it's almost impossible to repair.

Edit: Almost forgot: To burn that Win8 ISO to a DVD, just uninstall any 3rd party disc burning software (free as well as paid ones) so that Window's built-in disc burning feature can work undisturbed. Then right-click the ISO and select Burn disc image.

 

Hi,
I was trying to do exactly what you said. I was trying to install Win8 on same partition as Win7 after formatting it. I did not create new partition. But while doing this Win8 will use 350Mb from SSD - instead of using that old 100Mb MSR. May be because 100Mb is too small and it really needed 350Mb.

I was following the Win7 version of the guide you pointed me too (because my laptop came with Win7). You asked me to copy MSR on iSSD (created by Win*) to MSR on HDD (leftover from original Win7), is it possible? Because you are asking me to copy contents of 350Mb drive into 100Mb drive.... May be this is where I went wrong, I was trying to copy MSR from SSD to C drive (where Windows is installed). My bad.

And I did try the burning ISO the way you asked me, I still failed....and the worst thing is that I downloaded the Windows 8 Download tool and used that to burn ISO on disc, and instead of burning a bootable disc, it just copied the whole .iso file to the disc....and its the office tool from Microsoft.

Let me trying doing everything once again and this time I will copy MSR on iSSD to MSR on HDD and make the HDD one Active... I will get back. Thanks.

UPDATE: I copied boot files successfully to the 100Mb MSR and marked it as active. Windows 8 successfully loads, but the recovery is broken again. I am getting the same error that I used to get when I deleted 100Mb and created 350Mb in its place. "Samsung Recovery is not compatible with this computer". What should I do now?

 

I am sorry, I didn't mean to sound rough. I had just hoped you would get that DVD working since it makes installation so much easier. But I understand.

The reason Windows Setup creates a new MSR on the iSSD is not because the existing 100MB one is too small, it's because when booting from USB, Setup mistakenly thinks the iSSD is the main boot disk -- but in fact, the iSSD cannot be booted at all.

Good job getting the Win8 installation working! But frustrating that Recovery is now broken again -- and strange, considering that it works on mine, with the same Recovery version as you (SRS5), and with Win8 and 8.1 installed on two different partitions, and no Win7 at all.

The only thing I can think of now, is to try and install with no MSR (as I have it). Basically that involves copying the boot files to the Windows partition instead of to the MSR (using BCDBOOT or XCOPY) and marking that one Active instead. Once it boot and runs, you can then delete the MSR. That's not exactly how I did mine, but I think it's close enough.

Still, I'll say again, your time may be better spent creating image backups using 3rd party tools of the Windows installations you want (including old backups made with Recovery) then forget about Recovery. You can still leave it on the disk and/or back up Recovery itself using the link I previously provided. At least now you know you can make it working as long as you have a standard Win7 installation.

 

Oh, sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that you sounded rough. You are fine, don't worry about it.
So once I copy bootfiles to the C drive itself (where Windows is installed, I should delete the 100Mb MSR?

 

I am doing it all over again. I will install Windows 7, that will get the recovery working again. After that, I will install Windows 8 on C (where Win7 was installed), and copy boot files from iSSD to C (Where Win8 will be installed, same one where Win7 was installed previously). This way, the 100Mb MSR will never be tempered with and will possibly contain bootfiles for Win7....this will possible keep the recovery intact. Let me try all this and get back to you.
Can you provide me complete Xcopy command for copying bootfiles from iSSD to C?
And I believe I will have to mark C active after that, is that right?

 

Hats off to your persistence with this!

The XCOPY command is in the link I posted where I suggested it. I am not on my PC now, but just look back one or two posts. Make sure you format the Win7 partition before installing (sorry, I just wanna make sure). And yes, mark the Windows partition active after XCOPY, otherwise it will try to boot the MSR -- which still contains the Win7 bootloader that doesn't know how to boot Win8.

I remain puzzled why your Recovery would need Win7 boot files on a Win7 MSR, when mine doesn't. I keep thinking there must be something else that's breaking Recovery. But if this works, it works

 

I tried. I did not work. I installed Win8 on Win7 partition, did not temper with 100Mb MSR just left it alone, copied 350 Mb MSR from iSSD to C, made it active and still recovery says that it is not compatible with this computer.
I am giving up :-(
Please recommend me some good free software that would let me recover C drive's image from boot menu (without requiring a CD or USB or anything).

 

OK, got it. No one can say it was for lack of trying! And least you have intimate knowledge of the install process now, with ExpressCache hacks and all.

The partition imaging software I use is one I bought many years ago from Terabyte Unlimited, and it still works great after all these years and many Windows versions later. I commented on a few others in one of my previous posts (Acronis, Patagon, EaseUS), but I don't have first hand experience. Hopefully others will chime in. There is also Windows' built-in imaging feature (oddly named Windows 7 File Recovery in Windows 8).

 

Yes I have now good understanding of the stuff I did, I would like to thank you for helping me out and answering all of my questions. I appreciate it a lot.

 

The model of my laptop is samsung np530u3c A01cn, and I've got similar problem.
the initial operation system of my laptop is windows 7. About one year ago, I successfully upgraded to windows 8 . In windows 8, samsung recovery solution(SRS 5) can totally work. Recently, I downloaded the windows 8.1 from windows 8 app store(it's free!). I driectly upgrade system in the windows 8 envirnment,After several times restart, my operation system automaticly upgraded from windows 8 to 8.1. Everything is ok except SRS 5! When I run SRS 5, I got the same error prompt about uncompatible with my computer( F4 function broken too). So I uninstalled SRS 5 and tried to reinstall it. But I failed to do it and I got an error message--It cannot support GPT. I checked my disk information. My hdd is still MBR, but I noticed my SDD is GPT, I don't sure whether sdd is always GPT format. Maybe this is the reason caused SRS 5 broken?

 

Hello,

My laptop is a Series 9 NP900X3C A05 which was initially delivered with Win 8.
Three months after release of Win 8.1, I thought upgrading to 8.1 today might be quite safe by now (regarding compatibility and driver issues which should be sorted out by now).
So far the only problem I have encountered is that the touchpad driver (EDTWare X64 11.7.19.9_WHQL by Elan) does not work properly. Multi-touch gestures do not work anymore and I cannot find the Enlan program that controls the touchpad settings.
As it is a pain to use the touchpad this way, I decided to roll back the upgrade with the recovery point that I made prior the 8.1 installion with Samsung's own Recovery program.
I can select all Recovery points that I have made in the past, but none that were created before Win 8.1 can be restored, because the following error message appears:

"Target partition is too small for recovery. Please increase the size of the target partition." (The exact wording might be slighly different: I translated it from German.)

I can restore Recovery points created after Win 8.1 installation without problems though.
It seems that Win 8.1 has somehow screwed around with my partitions.
All backups and Recovery points were always made with Samsung Recovery, no third party programs were involved. These were created regularly on a external HDD and I am 100% sure that these are not corrupt in any way, as I have sucessfully restored installation images several times in the past. Sadly, I dont have a bootable factory state image.
Changes to partitions by me or anything in regard to that were never done.
Also I have never changed anything in the BIOS. All drivers and software should be up to date though.

Is there any way to make my former Recovery points work again? What changes do I have to apply to the target partition? (I haven't done anything so far due to fear of screwing up my system).
As an alternative I have tried Windows' own Recovery option, but I have never used it or manually created any recovery points with that. It shows only recovery options created subsequently to 8.1 installation.

Other than that, nothing seems to be severely broken on my system. I can live with Win 8.1 but its really annoying that Elan still hasn't relesed a working touchpad driver by now. Fortunately, I own a wireless mouse but proper touchpad functions would be much more preferable when I'm on the go.
The fact that I can somehow not use my regularly and carefully created recovery points in an emergency does scare me though.

Some hints and tips with detailed descriptions (I'm not a complete noob but no PC expert either) for fixing the Recovery problem would be much appreciated. Any other experiences with the touchpad on Win 8.1?
Thanks in advance for every bit of help.

~4n0nym0us

 

Hi 4n0nym0us, welcome to NBR.

You can try using Windows System Restore (not Samsung Recovery Solution, but the one in Windows System control panel) and roll back to a pre-8.1 restore point. It may or may not work. Several users found that it didn't.

It is great that you created SRS System restore points so diligently on an external drive. Are you able to boot Samsung Recovery Solution (SRS) using F4? If so, definitely try restoring those restore points from there, since the SRS Windows app appears to be broken in Win 8.1.

If that fails too, I would go nuclear: Create a Bootable Factory Image backup NOW (since your Recovery still works) and use that to re-image the drive. That will completely re-create your partitions, including Recovery, and (hopefully) wipe all traces of WIn 8.1. Once you have that running, I assume you should be able to restore the restore points you previously saved, although I cannot guarantee it.

Basically you want to follow the steps in this post. To create that Bootable Factory Image backup (step 4) follow the first two steps in this post. You will need a non-SanDisk 32GB USB flash drive.

Your first priority before trying any of these procedures is to make sure your data is backed up. And if you choose the nuclear option, that you have a secondary backup (since your backup will temporarily become your primary).

Assuming you can still F4 boot your Recovery, I think there is a good chance you can get it working again -- although with some work. But it's a huge failure on Microsoft's part that what should be a minor (0.1) Windows update can break your system so seriously -- including the core backup and restore function.

 

Hello woodhead93, welcome to NBR.

I see that you never got a response to your post from before Christmas. If you're still around, let us know. It does indeed sound like Win 8.1 screwed up your SRS5 as you said. Not in the same way as 4n0nym0us (who has SRS6) but seemingly very similar to elixir_pr, whose case I think you already studied.

He eventually decided to leave his old SRS5 behind, which I think was a wise choice: It's based on Win7 -- and its factory image contains Win7, which you can download free from Digital River anyway. So spending a lot of time trying to make SRS5 co-exist with Win 8.1 is moot, when it seems to hate it so much. Clean installing WIn7 is easy enough if you follow this guide.

(Strangely, SRS5 still works on my Sammy, even after I upgraded one of my Windows partitions from Win8 to 8.1).

But one thing you said got my attention: When you say your HDD is still MBR while your SSD is GPT, do you mean your iSSD (the one used for ExpressCache)? The iSSD should NOT be GPT on a legacy BIOS Windows installation, and I wonder how it got that way.

Did you enable UEFI at some point before doing the 8.1 upgrade?

If so, that may be a clue to what is causing this: Maybe the 8.1 upgrade sees UEFI being enabled (which it should NOT be with a BIOS/MBR installation!) and assumes it is an UEFI installation (even though the existing install is actually BIOS/MBR). So Win 8.1 Setup promptly confuses the iSSD with the boot drive, converts it to GPT and installs MSR and EFI partitions there. Your old Win8 MSR still exists on the HDD and keeps booting Windows on the HDD. But I can understand how Recovery might get confused by a setup like that.

Exlixir_pr tried pretty much everything to make 8.1 compatible with SRS5 on his computer. But I forget if he also tried converting the iSSD to MBR after installation. I've had too many of these Recovery discussions (in this and a dozen other threads) and I cannot remember the details of them all

If you are sure that your Windows installation is BIOS/MBR (not UEFI/GPT) then certainly you can try and convert the iSSD to MBR and see if that cures the SRS5 problem. Make sure you uninstall ExpressCache first! You can re-install it afterwards.