Samsung laptops bricked by using UEFI

But would a problem with the battery disconnect switch stop the computer booting when plugged into mains power?

John

 

Hm, my 770Z5E has sub options to use "UEFI and CSM", "UEFI" and "CSM" when I disable secure boot.
On UEFI it doesn't find any other bootable devices, on CSM it won't install/boot Win8.
In combo mode all works fine. Maybe that's how Samsung fixed this problem ?

Still fast boot needs to be disabled to have it find USB devices.
After your done change "fast boot" back to enabled, or the Samsung updater software /SW update) won't recognize your notebook and hide drivers from you. Took me some hours to figure out why I had no drivers offered once I installed Win8 but had them on the install before. The updater makes everything work perfectly, just don't let windows update HD4000 drivers or you end up in a crash when the lid is closed/opened (sleep).

It's fresh installs from MSDNAA isos. With secure boot it won't boot that way anymore, you have to use the Samsung supplied (repair) image if you want secure boot. For fresh installs you have to use uefi and csm mode. Makes no difference for me, booting is done within 5 seconds using Samsungs SSD 840 pro, sleep mode is gone after 2 secs.

Well my notebook is unchained now from Microsofts tyrany and hope it's unbrickable

 

If I remember correctly, my machine wouldn't boot at all with UEFI until I reformatted the HD using GPT. And, the reverse was also true, it wouldn't recognize the HD as bootable when using UEFI with MBR. Which is probably why, when I sent it to Samsung for a repair, they swapped the motherboard (which defaults to standard BIOS) and then thought they had to swap my (GPT formatted) HD. (When, in fact, they only needed to set UEFI to ON in the BIOS.)

Right now, it seems that the UEFI situation is not quite ready for prime-time. Particularly if it's bricking computers. And I really don't see the problem (Samsung's) with running GPT on standard BIOS - my old XPS M1210 and Inspiron e1705 machines are both GPT-formatted and they're triple-boot... but of course there's that PITA ghost MBR partition table in the Windows 7 OSes - so Windows only "sees" the first four physical partitions. This means that all of the Windows-accessible logical drives need to be located "up front".

This is a very frustrating situation for a multi-platform developer - or a consultant who works in different OSes as a matter of course.

Hmmm, good question. I only provided that as a possibility since the OP was, himself, wondering if that could be the problem. This could be determined empirically by holding down the battery reset switch on a working S7 and while doing so, attempt to plug in and power up the machine. Another option might be for the OP to try powering up his machine using the adapter with the battery unplugged - I haven't tried that one either, but it's pretty simple to set up.

Since the battery-reset switch does disable power up from battery until the AC adapter is plugged in, it's not a stretch to postulate that if the switch remains depressed it could very well be wired to also inhibit operation while under mains power - either on purpose or as an unintended consequence of its particular circuit design.

Finally, it is a reset switch, it may also assert a reset signal to the MB that actually resets the processor along with "disconnecting" power. That could, by definition, certainly prevent booting and/or power up.

In fact it may well be that the open circuit (or closed circuit) created by depressing the reset switch also causes some kind of interlock condition in the power management circuitry that prevents the power up signal (from the power switch) from reaching the power-up logic on the MB. This brings to mind a number of experimental scenarios that could be set up as a means to "reverse engineer" the power/battery/reset circuit's functional specification. But, having spent far too much time "inside" my own S7, I'll gladly leave those projects for someone who needs the answers.

 

I encountered this bug a few weeks ago on my NP300E5C-A01UB and am attempting to unbrick the laptop by reflashing. In the process of doing this, my friend and I pulled a copy of the borked firmware, and I have uploaded it to GitHub: https://github.com/rimunroe/SamsungUEFI

Also, if anyone here can share a copy of the vendor supplied firmware I would *greatly* appreciate it since then we could reflash.

 

You can try following the guidance in this thread to get an earlier firmware which will put you back on the path to the latest.

John

 

Thanks, that pointed us in the right direction. We may have a working image now. We'll try flashing it tomorrow.

 

Hello. I had a similar experience with an NP300-E5C by using Acronis True Image WD Edition (recovery software) to perform an HDD backup. The BIOS locked fully after the second use and I was unable to access it or boot from CD/DVD, USB Stick or even use the internal recovery software. Windows was still booting but the Safe mode was not usable. I sent it for service and they replaced the motherboard. This proves that any UEFI Software can brick those laptops, even recovery software.

 

I can say now that installing Linux didn't brick anyting on my 770Z5E.
Had a fresh Windows 8 install with disabled secure boot and sub option set to "CSM and UEFI".

Had to remove GPT partiton table stray with "fixparts" tool first because Linux couldn't find my MBR partitions

 

@black83: Just to make sure I understand you correctly: You're saying you converted your disk to MBR (or replaced it with an MBR partitioned SSD); and with the CSM and UEFI setting in BIOS you are able to boot Windows (and Linux) from an MBR disk. Is that correct? Do you have an EFI partition on the disk?

I ask because according to this MS technet article Windows in UEFI mode isn't able to boot from MBR disks:

Admittedly, it also says:

But I've understood that while MBR was supported on external disks (using CSM), Windows in UEFI mode had to boot from a GPT disk.

I have an old Sandy Bridge model myself and don't have any of those BIOS options. But I am trying to understand them in order to help answer questions around here.

Thanks you for helping me understand

 

So it looks like I've bricked my Samsung NP900X3B-A02US by attempting to boot into Ubuntu from USB.

I've tried holding the battery disconnect button(the tiny hole at the back?) along with the power button for 1 minute(actually tried for two just to be safe). This did not work, I've done it again and I'm going to leave it for the next 48 hours. This will reset the CMOS? How is this possible if the CMOS is stored using it's own battery? Won't I have to wait until that runs out as well?

Also where is this information coming from? There's almost nothing I can find relating to this on the internet apart from a few articles and this thread? How can I contact Samsung to fix this? Having a really hard time here, any help would be much appreciated.

 

before you can install windows 8, you need to set bios to "CSM and UEFI" without secure boot.

I installed a (new and unused) SSD and formatted using win8 installer. it created MBR and installed some GPT fake data !
this left me GPT partition remains, hindering linux installs but allowing windows to boot !

it's just a lame tactic by microsoft to hinder people using linux.
took me hours to figure out, since linux reports gpt partitions but sees only the full HDD as empty space, which isn't true. checking within windows shows clearly MBR !!

fixparts removes that fake GPT data and allows linux to see MBR again. after that procedure everything is straight forward.

 

I've been searching for the source of the CMOS reset guidance but I haven't been able to find the original post with the Samsung guidance (not that Samsung support always get things right).

The method here worked for one member. It involves disconnecting the CMOS battery. For the X3B you also need to use the battery disconnect switch or remove the main battery.

John

 

Thanks for the reply John. It's safe to say I've had a bad day. Did not think installing an operating system in the year 2013 could brick a unit. I think in future I'll just virtualise all operating systems.

I've just got off the phone to Samsung UK (03307267864). Looks like they're going to get a courier out here within the next 2 working days. We'll see how it goes.

I'll update with more details.

EDIT: Here's more on the BIOS reset;

http://bsod.at/236/windows-8-broke-my-pc-samsung-series-9-bios-reset/

High res picture of where the CMOS battery is.

 

Thanks a lot for your response. Quite a few hoops you had to to jump through there.

Question: Why not just keep UEFI disabled entirely and stay in BIOS mode, if you know you wanted your disk to be MBR anyway?

Thanks again.

 

Google for "Samsung UEFI brick" and there's quite a few hits. Unfortunately, people only discover that after the event. Samsung must know about the problem which is why they are being cooperative. However, it would be better for everyone if they fix it. UEFI is a good idea in principle but a headache in practice.

If the service work has been given to Digicare then you'll get an email / SMS indicating the courier and pickup time slot. Have the computer and PSU ready to put in a box so the courier can take it immediately.

John

 

Win8 refused to boot without UEFI on my machine (first install on fresh SSD). But there was a "fake GPT" partition, even if my drive was MBR. After I removed it using fixparts, it boots.

 

Hmmm... I clean installed win8 in pure BIOS (non-UEFI) mode onto an MBR disk, no problems at all. Did it several times, even, to test various combinations. I know others did the same; it's kind of become the de facto recommended "safe" approach on these Sammies.

But those who have win8-delivered PCs (with GPT disks from the factory) would delete all partitions in the process of converting it to MBR, hence no leftover EFI or other partitions.

I am still puzzled that your Win8 installed, boots and runs in UEFI mode (using an EFI partition) even though your disk is MBR.

 

I just want to share that I've successfully made a clean install ("Erase the disk and install Ubuntu") of Ubuntu Gnome 13.04 x64 in UEFI mode on my NP900X4D. Note that only x64 version supports UEFI!

I downloaded the x64 version and made a bootable USB drive using Rufus: Rufus - Create bootable USB drives the easy way setting "Partition Scheme..." to GPT Partition for UEFI Computer.
Prior to the install I had installed the latest BIOS ver. P07ABK and disabled “Fast boot”, “Secure boot” and set “Os Mode Selection” to UEFI.
Afterwards I used the procedure stated in the sections:"General principle" and “Creating an EFI partition”: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI . Note that if you install Ubuntu Gnome 13.04 x64 you need to make sure that you don't install it “Along side” existing OS as there's a known bug (For some reason only reported for Ubuntu Gnome).
Some issues I've found after installation are:
- The Fn keys F9, F10 and F12 are not working
- Bluetooth enables it self after boot, but there should be a workaround for this on the web.
- Default brightness is 100%, installing “xbacklight” solves this.
- For some reason the BIOS clock is two hours behind eventhough the OS shows the correct time.

Please note that if you use the procedure above, it is written as I recall it and that using it is at your own risk!

 

Hallo everybody,
I have read the discussion but I am still puzzled... I would like to know if you guys think it is now safe to install Ubuntu (with new patches against the bug) in dual boot with W8 on a 2013 Samsung model. I would like to buy the 530u4e model, but I am not enthusiast at the idea of formatting everything and doing a fresh install without UEFI.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

Hello prplbr, welcome to the forum.

Another member asked a similar question a few weeks ago, you can see the discussion here.

Briefly: While I cannot guarantee anything, my impression is that this bricking issue was limited to late 2012 models, which were originally developed for Win7 (non-UEFI/MBR) then adapted to Win8 (UEFI/GPT). I have not heard of UEFI-related bricking issues with 2013 models -- but again, no guarantees, of course.

In the end, it worked out for that member. Please read that discussion, then decide for yourself.

And PLEASE, post your results in this thread

 

Thanks for your answer, Dannemand. I had the same impression, but I actually wanted to be 100% sure before buying it. In case I decide to go for it, I'll let you know what happens.

 

I got my laptop back after Samsung replaced the motherboard. I am currently running BIOS version P05AAG. Does this BIOS version prevent my laptop from bricking if I boot Linux? I am desperate to install Linux

 

Hi sabrefresco,

It's been a long time. I am glad to hear Samsung fixed your laptop. I am sure that took some work and talk on your part to make it happen.

The good news is we haven't really had any UEFI-related bricking reports in many months. In particular does it seem like whatever problems Samsung had with the 2012 models that were converted from Win7 (BIOS/MBR) to Win8 (UEFI/GPT) was solved in the 2013 models.

I guess the bad news is that your model was among the ones in the danger zone to begin with. No doubt lots of people have successfully installed and use Linux on 2012 models as well, including yours (NP700Z5C, right?). I just don't want to be the one giving you any guarantees

Definitely look around for Linux-related discussions. Member Lekkerkerker recently created a new Linux thread here:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/samsung/723676-linux-series-7-2013-a.html

You could also use the Search Thread feature in the Z5C Owners Lounge:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sam...eries-7-lovers-heres-np700z5c-ivy-bridge.html

And you can Google the Samsung forum with searches like site:notebookreview.com/samsung linux np700z5c (which yields several promising hits).

Please post here if you arrive at any conclusions that will allow us to wrap up this thread.

 

Well I ran out of patience and tried Ubuntu 13.04 64-bit version on my laptop. Tried it while I had Windows 7 installed. Did not brick. Did a clean Windows 8 install and tried again. Did not brick. UEFI was off from the BIOS while I had both OSes. Did not risk trying older versions of Ubuntu as it could brick my laptop.

I did not install Ubuntu in either scenarios, just booted up the LiveUSB and used it for a while and restarted. That's how my laptop got bricked before I replaced the motherboard.

 

I don't think bricking was ever a risk as long as UEFI is disabled. I am sorry, I should have pointed that out in my last post

But thanks for confirming that it works!

 

UEFI was disabled the last time I got my laptop bricked. I switched off to avoid that but it did brick afterall

 

I'm sorry, I must have missed that part. I think it must have bricked for a different reason then, since the UEFI brick specifically happens when Linux (or any OS) writes too much info to the NVRAM used by UEFI. At least that was my impression.

Anyway, sounds like you're in good shape now. Once again thanks for keeping us updated.

 

Update: Held my breath, enabled UEFI, booted Linux. Still posting through the same notebook

 

Good!

Do note that if Windows was installed while UEFI was disabled, it will be running in BIOS (CSM) mode, even if you later enable UEFI. There won't be an EFI System Partition (ESP) on your disk. Maybe (probably) Linux booting from a LiveUSB will still use UEFI if it is enabled -- I am afraid don't know that.

 

Ubuntu 12.04.2 has a note re: UEFI compatibility here (search for "samsung"):

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/ChangeSummary/12.04.2

I would still exercise tremendous caution, and probably not even try in UEFI mode given the ongoing lack of solid documentation.

 

Linux kernel 3.10 has a few UEFI anti-bricking patches according to this post: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-cdimage/+bug/1040557/comments/220

Ubuntu 13.10 and later versions of other Linux distros should have it by default. So I guess there might be fewer cases of bricking for the 2012 models.

 

Hi, I have an NP700Z3C with Windows 8, and watching this thread, I think I should reinstall it in CSM mode, but I don't know how to get a clean instalation disc, any idea? I also don't know how to get the activation key...

 

The key is embedded in the bios. You only need to reinstall a copy of Windows 8 and it would be automatically activated.

 

But that would work in CSM mode (MBR)? Anyway i've seen programs for that, my problem is getting the ISO...

 

Hi Kherom, welcome to the forum.

If Win8 is pre-installed, I don't think there is a need to re-install it in CSM mode for fear of this UEFI issue. For all we know, it may have been fixed with the latest BIOS updates -- just as it seems to have been fixed in the 2013 models. And the problem seemed to occur during UEFI installs, not during use of a pre-installed Win8. In any case haven't we had any UEFI bricking reports in many months.

But if you're saying you want to do a clean Win8 install anyway, I suppose you could consider switching to CSM mode. You will have to convert your HDD from GPT to MBR, as described in the last section of this Win7 install guide which will lose your Recovery. It's a good idea to backup your Recovery Factory Image to a USB stick first with the Create Boot Disk option.

Microsoft does not provide publicly available Win8 downloads -- which everybody agrees they should. If you have a MSDN/TechNet subscription, you can download ISO files from here. Also, If you're a student (and have an ID to prove it) you may be able to get a Win8 download from Microsoft Dreamspark. Please do not ask for or discuss illegal Win8 downloads here, as it is against forum rules.

If you decide to proceed with the clean install, I recommend you check that Win7 install guide I linked for conversion steps, then after Setup has finished, refer to this post for which drivers to install using SW Update, which to install manually, and which to avoid.

Also, the thread linked below contains a lot of discussion about WIn8 installation -- not just on Series 9, despite the thread title.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/samsung/683577-samsung-series-9-windows-8-a.html

Let us know how it goes.

Edit: Member gwrace describes in this post that he was able to pull his license key from BIOS using RW-Everything. Try googling that.

 

Windows 8 Direct Download Links

Please scroll down to the Windows 8 setup tool. @Kherom Does your laptop boot to the desktop?

 

I'm student, maybe I could try that way.

Yes, my laptop works fine, I just want to reinstall Windows 8 in a MBR disk so i can install GNU/Linux without risks. But the setup tool (with the generic key) tells me it can't connect and it ask me to check my conection.

I've tried to obtain the key with TuneUP but it gives me a wrong key

For the moment I'm testing a live Ubuntu in a MBR USB, i think that should be safe, right?

Anyway i´m disapointed with Samsung, they should do something...

 

There's a useful post here by possumnz about how he succeeded with dual Windows / Linux dual boot on his new Series 9.

John

 

If i'm not wrong that way still booting in UEFI mode so it's not safe... And should be better to use a newer Ubuntu ISO:

 

I must report that at least the Samsung 540u3d with the latest BIOS (as of end of June 2013) is still prone to bricking.

I just bricked my gf's ultrabook when messing around with win 7 / 8 dual boot config in UEFI mode. Both installations were working OS installs before the mishap.

How did I break it:
Symptom: The boot settings I made with msconfig (regardless wether they were made in Windows 7 or 8) would never match the windows 7 boot menu. When saving some settings in msconfig (in windows 7) it BSOD. It would then boot into the windows 7 boot menu.

Result:
Windows 7: Boot fails. Blue screen, reporting incorrect ACPI configuration and BSOD, safe boot (F8) not possible
Windows 8: Endless repair loop and BSOD. No repair options would work

Bios: I could not make any setting stick. Disabling secure boot and / or fast boot was not possible.
F4 or F10 would also not work :-((
-> I had no chance of ever booting from a USB stick.

I took the computer back to the shop where they replaced it on the spot.

 

I think I just bricked my NP700Z5C trying to boot from USB flash drive in UEFI. Is there a way to unbrick it myself? Does disconnecting battery and CMOS really work or it gets corrupted and requires swapping the motherboard. Which I am guessing gonna take awhile. Also I bought it refurbished and out of the warranty, I assume they wouldn't want to fix it anyway, correct? Which I believe is preposterous given that they clearly dropped a ball hear.

 

I've read a way by disconnecting the battery (with a clip or something) and then pressing the power button one minute, but i'm not sure if it works...

 

Can you get into the BIOS (F2 at the boot screen) and see the first turned on date? If that is less than a year ago then Samsung may honor the warranty.

That's a straightened paperclip through the hole in the bottom to disconnect the battery (with the mains power already disconnected). Then hold down the power button. IIRC it has worked for some people. There are various fixes and attempted fixes in this thread.

John

 

Unfortunately it's a complete brick, probably firmware got corrupted. I opened it up and disconnected both batteries, pressed power button for few minutes, waited for over 12 hours and at the end it was still dead. Samsung confirmed that I still have warranty left on it, so I am sending it for service and hope it will get fixed. I am so pissed right now. I think it's the last time I am buying anything Samsung, I feel they couldn't handle matter any worse. They should have posted some warning on support page to avoid using UEFI , but probably to avoid bad publicity they swept it under the rug.

 

At least Samsung are willing to fix it under warranty.

John

 

That was my thought too. But I do understand the frustration.

Anyways, it would seem that, even with the latest BIOS, the 2012 Win8-delivered models are still prone to UEFI bricking.

We still have not heard any reports of UEFI bricking for the 2013 models. And (I think) neither for Win7-delivered models (which have minimal UEFI features).

Confirmations and/corrections to this would be great.

Also, from those who DID successfully perform UEFI installs (Linux in particular) on the bricking prone models, I wonder if there is any commonality in BIOS settings (such as OS Mode Selection) and procedure (sequence of steps).

That would be useful knowledge for members who are about to take the plunge, but wondering how to minimize their risk.

 

I am still afraid at the end they would refuse to fix it under warranty for some technicality. Like I did swap harddrive to SSD and put the old one in the caddy instead of DVD-rom. Now I had to swap it back, but I think it would be still easy to tell that case has been opened up before.
Also, going forward, what happens when all those laptops become out of the warranty, do you believe Samsung continue swapping motherboards for free? I don't think so. So customers would have to shell out few hundred bucks to send it back, and all mostly due to Samsung's fault in writing stable UEFI software? I still believe the right course of action would be to fix the problem and do a massive recall of all affected laptops. I know it would cost them a lot of money, but otherwise it's like sitting on a timed bomb. I guess goind forward the safest for me would be never use UEFI at all, but what about others who didn't know about this issue beforehand?

 

They should extend the warranty... What happens if the bug appears too late? Should we brick our laptops intentionally to get the bug fixed?

 

I agree it's nasty that this can happen, and that we have to depend on Samsung's grace when it does.

Still, I wouldn't recommend intentionally bricking to get a motherboard replacement within warranty. For all we know, a new motherboard of the same model (with the same BIOS) might be susceptible to the same issue.

Fortunately it's relatively few reports we have seen here. All of them have been for those tweener models that originally were delivered with Win7, then updated and converted to UEFI and SecureBoot for delivery with Win8. I really hope this remains true.

I assume Samsung must be thinking that only a few users will run into the issue: Both because it only affects units within a 3-4 month production window; AND because the majority of users keep the pre-installed OS; AND among those who DO new installs, only a few actually get bit by the UEFI issue. Hence it is far less costly to them (both economically and PR wise) to simply deal with the individual cases rather than issue a blanket recall. I am inclined to think they may even be willing to help after the official warranty period. But of course I don't know. And they would never openly make such a promise.

In case I am wrong: If owners of earlier models (delivered with Win7) or later models (released since Jan 2013) have experienced genuine UEFI bricking as described in this thread (not just any type of lockup or OS mess) it would be great information to share here.

 

My unit was originally delivered with Win7 and I believe production date is August 2012. I don't think I had SecureBoot.
I highly doubt Samsung is gonna be fixing laptops after warranty expires. As a matter of fact I don't think they have admitted the problem on their part, right now they simply replace motherboard due to the warranty, not due to admitting they have purely designed firmware. I don't think anyone really understand the problem, I have sent support email explaining the problem (UEFI lockup during USB boot, etc) and specifically told them as a result I couldn't boot up computer, they responded with some generic answer about me trying to do recovery thorugh F4 on a startup. Really? I explicitly mentioned not been able to boot it up. Good luck trying convince them to do repair based on their "grace" beyond warranty period. I don't see they treat this common issue differently, otherwise they would at least have some kind of special internal note to deal with this situation not to created to much stir in the community. They simply just don't care.
If Samsung line of defense gonna be "it wasn't designed to run Linux or be booted from USB", then it's total BS and they are becoming worse than Apple(which I personaly hate). As a matter of fact given amount of time I spend dealing with their so called "premium laptop" I would be better of going with MacBook Pro.