All Things Android - Apps, Phones, Tablets - Discussion

I understand how the camera sensor works, especially these two. For me it's the better camera as the overwhelming majority of my pics are actually taken in low light. I would sacrifice detail that I don't actually need or see in the type of pics I use my cellphone cam for, to get better low light improvement, but of course that's just me, others may want a better over all camera which the S4 has. For serious pics though, I could never take any cellphone camera seriously, I have a DSLR for that. Cellphone cameras are still a novelty in that regard in my opinion.

EDIT: What's your SN over at XDA if you don't mind me asking?

Why exactly? (aside from the tired old argument of no removable battery/SD card slot)

 

You can minimize this all you want... but they are significant, esp if battery performance is subpar or if battery degradation is prominent. If it's hard to service, that only magnifies the issue.

 

And based on your stated needs, the S4 is the better choice.
It takes better photos in low-light, end of story.

Read the GSMArena comparison: Samsung Galaxy S4 vs. HTC One: Army of two - GSMArena.com

Poorer screen, less-powerful SoC, older OS out-the-box, poorer history of firmware updates, massively out-gunned when it comes to software features, larger despite having a smaller screen, both larger and heavier meaning it's not as nice/comfortable to hold, quality control and supply issues as well as HTC's poorer reliability.
And just for power-users - poorer Dev support, a ty bootloader policy and nothing that measures up to Odin.

All of that plus the lack of removable battery and microSD slot which are make-or-break factors for some customers and will not help to sway people who are 50/50 between the S4 and the One.
And the poorer camera too.



edit: forgot about this...

Store-in-stores are nothing new, it's very common over here at least for various manufacturers to purchase space inside shops.
Google actually has a bigger presence in consumer electronic retailers in the UK such as Currys than Samsung do. Certainly when it comes to laptops and tablets. Sony and Apple are even further ahead.

As for HTC, they simply don't have the product range to warrant such expenditure - Sony produce laptops, tablets, cameras, TVs, speaker systems; Apple produce laptops, desktops, tablets, media players; Samsung do laptops, tablets, cameras, TVs etc; HTC just do phones.

 

Battery performance is excellent, and the battery type (lithium polymer) is less prone to degradation. OTG storage exists, only thing I can see being an issue for the 0.005% of people who would actually repair their own phone would be the screen replacement. Not too valid in my opinion.

 

And is in no way remotely comparable to having a microSD slot.
To try and suggest that having a card reader protruding from the bottom of your handset is just as convenient is patently false.

Yes, in your opinion.
Objectively however, it's better to have the options of an easily-replaceable battery and a microSD slot than not to, regardless of whether most people would actually use it or not.

 

And that's the issue. Almost everyone I know, that's not a techy-type person, uses their smartphone as their primary camera. I had to update an iPhone the other day with over 6GB of nothing but pictures. Instead of point-n-shoots, now people are just using their phones. With how good cameras have been on smartphones lately, they're not really missing much from the point-n-shoot side. Now, admittedly, you'll ALWAYS get a better picture on a DSLR, but for convenience there's nothing like a good smartphone camera. But, blow up a photo from the One and you'll very quickly see that 4MP resolved resolution.

XDA? I don't use it. The devs have egos that are as large as the XDA userbase.

Tired argument? Not at all. Those are quite important things to a LOT of people. I won't buy another phone with no external SD, unless they want to bring me a 64GB version for the same price as what they're selling the over-priced 16GB models at now. NAND is cheap. Up the capacity, keeping the prices in line... or give me a MicroSD slot.

 

Yep, HTCdev.com. This worked for the older firmware with the DNA, but apparently Verizon made HTC disable the ability to unlock the newer firmware's bootloader. Trying to do a fastboot oem getunlockbin now throws back a VZW_1 instead of the block of code needed by website.

Doesn't matter anyways, it already found a new home.

 

Yeah bud, I saw it already.. Take it with a grain of salt until we get more reviews in..

Poorer screen (your opinion) I find SLCD3 to be superior in everything except blacks/contrast (and everything else it's supposed to be inferior to is not noticeable in real world performance when taking into account all the pros and cons of both display techs) and it still has some very excellent deep black levels for LCD. (Less powerful SoC) that's so far maxing out every important game on the market (with the exception of a few not optimized for Adredno yet) and the LPDDR2 in the One is showing no inferiority to the LPDDR3 in anything except benchmarks at the moment. By the time the extra .200Mhz on the S4's Snapdragon and 4GB/s starts being meaningful it'll probably be time to upgrade again.

For sure it's make or break for a tiny percentage of users, that tiny amount of users is not make or break for HTC though, so the whole omg epic fail HTC is dead in the water omg no removable battery or built in expandable storage!11!!!! cries are more drama than anything and will hardly affect HTC as a company, the way the few hard core users try to make everyone believe.

HTC is a small company in comparison to the rest of those companies. No one is saying they not.

 

Opposite for me, everyone I know including myself uses it as a point and shoot, we don't blow up posters, or post large pics on our favorite social sites. If we need detail, we use our real cameras.

It's a good place to learn and get all the gory details about everything, including excellent comparisons and user data.

I just mean there are other cheaper ways to accomplish the task of more storage.

 

I find that my Galaxy S3 plus the ProCapture camera app is better than my Canon point-and-shoot at flash-free photography (important since my son is autistic and hates the flash) and nearly as good as the Canon for other casual photography.

I liked the concept of the Ultrapixel camera--bigger sensor and less emphasis on pixel count (pixel count is rarely the limiting factor to image quality on smartphone pictures, and the 13-megapixel cameras on next-gen devices create massive image files)...but the proof is in the pudding, and I really haven't liked the sample photos I've seen from it so far.

 

Why should we?
GSMArena have a proven track record of detailed and impartial reviews, there's absolutely no reason not to take their word at face value except for the fact it doesn't suit your argument.

No, not my opinion, the opinions of everyone who has tried the S4 and backed up by a series of detailed tests by GSMArena that show that the S4's panel produce colours as accurate or better than both the One's and iPhone 5's screens can.

And still nowhere near as good as AMOLED.

You wanted to know why the One is destined to be second-string to the S4, it's still a reason.

And what about the other points?
There are another 10-or-so points that favour the S4 that you've bypassed.

The percentage will be higher than you think.
Not that it matters how large or small it is, it's still a segment of the market HTC have excluded which they cannot afford to do.

I've never seen anything on XDA that could be described as such.
From top to bottom, everyone has an agenda or a preference or an axe to grind, impartiality is an alien concept over there. And I say that as an ex-Mod on there.

 

What size battery? I was able to get almost 8hrs of screen time on my 3300mah. But that was using it with he screen dim, and my theme is pretty dark too.


On a side note, I stayed up last night and rooted my Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 7", finally. Now just playing around with it. Flashed CM10.1 on it. Anyone else rocking a Tab 2 tablet?


Sent from my Samsung Captivate/JB CM 10.1 via Tapatalk.

 

I had a Tab2 10 but has to give it back.
Can't complain, I've still got the Note 10.1.

Kinda hoping I get a Note 8.

 

Because on a hardware level, the One's low light performance should be superior, but GSM's test didn't show this, there is a strong possibility that there are other factors they haven't considered or touched base on that are causing this. That's not to say that in final release of both devices things won't stay the same, it's just that given the hardware and the results we're seeing, there is likely more to this than meets the eye.

Yes, your opinion, not mine, and not everyone's opinions. I get that you want to take GSMArena's tests and opinions as set in stone without question, but it's still opinion, there is more to AMOLED and SLCD than just accurate colors, contrast, battery savings, and a sites formulated opinion based on tests they may and may not have done or things taken or not taken into account.

No, I wanted to understand all the overly dismissive attitudes in here toward the HTC One and lack of viewing it as a valid cellphone option for some sensible people out there and a joke because it won't over take Samsung within a single year.

What points? new software? I've seen nothing exceptional (in my opinion, not that others wont I'm sure there are a lot of people impressed with this) in any of the S4's new software with the exception of being able to use the screen with gloves on (a problem that can be solved by buying relatively inexpensive gloves over a $700 dollar phone someone may not want), and air gestures which seems like a decent feature. Most of these features might end up being more of a battery drain than useful to some people over the long term.

The percentage will not be as high as you think. It's a segment they've excluded because they probably feel it's not going to make them or break them, if that is their reasoning, then I tend to agree.

Seems to be the same over here tbh.

Btw, who do you work for again?

Oh and what was your mod SN at XDA out of curiosity?

 

You seem to be taking the fact that people don't like your phone awfully personally. Kind of odd.

 

I'm literally about to pull the trigger on one within a few hours. How do you like yours? I don't know if you played with the Samsung build of Jelly Bean for it or not...I'm trying to see if stuff like the mini apps and screenshot button/screenshot editor are there ...doesn't seem like it anymore since it adopts the "phone" user interface like the N7.

 

So rather than accept the evidence in front of you until something comes to light that contradicts it, you're going to assume it's wrong on the off-chance that it is?

If you read the hands-on opinions of a wide variety of tech blogs, it's a common theme amongst them.

Measurements collected by way of performing identical tests on three different handsets is now 'opinion'?

Again we're back to assuming there's something wrong with the tests despite no evidence to suggest that's the case?

No-one has said it's not a valid option, all we've highlighted is that the S4 offers a far more compelling package and that's why HTC will come off second-best yet again.
There are reasons why customers would opt for a One over the S4 but they're very much subjective matter like the choice of materials and the aesthetic of the handset, whereas there are a number of objective advantages that the S4 has.

Amongst a number of others. There's also the fact the One is launched with the previous version of Android as well as HTC's patchy history of firmware updates.
The quality control issues, supply issues, reliability issues.
And the Dev/power-user factors too.

So now you're projecting your own opinions and presumptions onto proceedings?
That's somehow more pertinent than a series of carefully organised tests.

Even if it's 0.1% of all customers (and it won't be that low), that's more than HTC can afford to turn their back on.
HTC accounted for less than 5% of the smartphone market in 2012 and with their terrible results in January and February, that will only have continued to slide. 0.1% would represent a significant increase for them.

Yes, sadly that seems to be the case.

Do I get to know who you work for?

SN?

 

Mini-apps are still there, the screenshot button is not though.
The editor should be.

 

I like it. I actually really like the stock OS. When I first got it, it had a screen shot button in the bottom menu bar. But when they released 4.1.1 OTA they got rid of it. However by pressing the power button + volume down (or up) you can screen shot that way(stock and not rooted). So yo can still screen shot, just not with a quick easy button. It's nice for casual use and some gaming. I don't do anything too intense on it. It also has an IR blaster for TV control too which is decent if its compatible with your TV. Sadly that feature isn't supported with CM10.1. I don't think anyhow.

I also have the Otter Box defender case on it which is really nice, though expensive. I gave some thought to putting a $70 case on a $170 tablet, but figured I'd get my use of it since I'm taking the tablet on a military deployment soon. And I put a 32GB sd card in it for movies, which I'll soon upgrade to a 64GB card (I'll have to format the 64gb card.)

I'm thinking I may set it up to dual boot CM10.1 and the stock Jelly Bean 4.1.1 OS.
Screen resolution could be better, but for the price it's not bad. Got me for $179 at best buy on black Friday with a $20 gift card which I used for the SD card.

Mini apps are there, though I don't know if they work with CM10.1. I haven't had enough time to try, though I doubt it. Another reason I want to set up a dual boot with the stock OS.

Sent from my Samsung Captivate/JB CM 10.1 via Tapatalk.

 

I'm going to take it with a grain of salt, as should everyone until more evidence comes in from several different sources.

Also, how does

equate to denying evidence in front of me?

As far as I know, GSMArea was the only test site to put the S4 ahead of the One in low light performance, if you know of others by all means post the links and I'll be glad to check them out. As it stands to me right now, there is one site you choose to take the opinion of, that they came to based off of their tests of hardware/software that could have had problems these testers were unaware of. Are you 100% sure that the HTC One's camera was functioning 100% correctly the way it was designed to with the software it was designed to with and had no physical defects that could have given the S4 the edge when hardware wise it shouldn't have been able to?

I've never said the HTC One will finish first, just reacted to the sentiment that it's not a valid company/option because it wont finish first. Buying the S4 for it's advantages would be as subjective as buying the One for it's advantages, would it not?

While I agree on paper not rolling with 4.2.2 seems like a knock on the One, I don't see how it's a real world factor. Is it a factor because it's missing some performance benefits, or is it a factor because the number is just not as high as 4.2.2 and would average users care? Are we 100% sure that the 4.2.2 update that HTC claims will roll out shortly after release will not show up for much longer, and maybe never at all, due to the past history? How does supply issues affect after sales? What reliability issues? XDA has quite a few devs already working with the HTC One, things are looking very good in that department, but I guess we'll see how things work out.

Or maybe they know more than we do, about the cost of it all, and going with this solution was cheaper for them due to efficiency, manufacturing, manufacturing costs etc etc.

It was rhetorical, I know you work for Samsung as I saw your post earlier in the thread about it.

If you want to know who I work for you sure can, I work for my cousin's husband doing renovations.

Screen name.

 

I actually don't own the phone, just adding some discussion.

 

Sweet, thanks.

Excellent. I saw the defender case...I too am struggling with the notion of paying that much for a case...but the integrated screen protector is intriguing...getting one and a separate case would be the first thing I do really.

I don't plan on installing any custom ROM that isn't TW based for a while. The feature set of TouchWiz is appealing.

I don't plan on doing much if any gaming on it so I don't need a barnstormer of a tablet. Glad to see it's treating you well.

As for One VS. Galaxy S 4:

Both are brilliant devices in their own right. One is aimed at offering a very premium physical feel at the expense of expandability and serviceability while the other is more mainstream in design but that allows it to meet the needs of a wider variety of people.

Two different strategies to achieving smartphone superiority but Samsung's got a definite advantage.

Android is seen as the "everyman" phone choice. Unlike the iPhone (which seems to be where the One is aiming for in terms of feature set), there's a Android phone for every budget and style. As such you'll attract people who'll have needs like the ability to use a microSD slot to store media (or be able to transfer that media from their feature phone to their new smartphone), or are used to a removable battery ("what if i need to reset it?" "can i get a bigger battery so it'll last long like my *insert feature phone here*?").

The Galaxy S line has met these needs since launch, and since it manages to appeal to both the needs of "everyman" and the wants/cravings of the enthusiast set, it's been a success.

Samsung comes ahead in terms of financial health as HTC's financials are dire so suppliers (allegedly Sony's camera sensor division is the one who mentioned them being a "tier-3" customer now) are wary of fabricating parts for them because they aren't sure they'll get paid back. If HTC was doing better, the delays wouldn't have happened.

They also do well in terms of marketing budget/prowess: The "You" campaign of a few years ago sputtered quickly and we haven't seen a proper HTC only ad since in the US.

About the Facebook Phone:

HTC's been rumored to do the Facebook phone for years now. Yes they did the Status but that was never really marketed as a Facebook phone, it was always "HTC Status on AT&T" or whatever. Aside from the F logo button, no one really knew...or cared.

This likely won't have a whiff of HTC branding. It'll be a throwback to the WinMo days where everyday people used HTC devices all the time but didn't realize it was them. Stuff like the Cingular 2125, AT&T Tilt/Tilt 2, Treo Pro, etc.

The advantage for HTC in this case is that they likely wont have to market the Facebook phone: Facebook will do that. Because it's from Facebook, it'll likely sell, and if it does, HTC will get much needed income. Is it likely enough to save them? Depends...likely not, but any additional source of income can only help them now...not hurt them.

EDIT:

Question: Clearly the One is a divisive handset...I'm curious. If you all had the chance to make the latest "One" handset, what would you change/include?

Personally? I'd have skipped the UltraPixel camera. It sounds great on paper, but it's a marketing disaster, is responsible for the delay, and many will be turned off by the lack of megapixels alone.

I would have insisted upon shipping with the latest release of Android. BlinkFeed would be completely togglable: Why give enthusiasts (the people who sway a significant # of the masses to one device or the next) one more reason to hate your UI? I think it's cool but sometimes you gotta let people do what they want, even if they don't even want to try your new feature.

I also would have offered up a "pro" model. Yes, you can see where this is going....



That mockup's what a One Qwerty could have looked like during the last generation. But my point rings clear. Use the legendary keyboard design from the Touch Pro 2, G2, and HTC Arrive. Don't gimp it....give it the same gorgeous screen, power, everything.

Create. The. Ultimate. Qwerty.

People would give up their right arm for a halfway decent qwerty handset. There simply isn't one save for the ancient Droid 4 and it hurts. Bad.

It's alright to have a slim one to quiet the focus groups, but the pro model would be a sweet option as well.

 

Yea, it serves me well for what I need. I do like the integrated screen protector. I would have bought an invisible shield if it didn't have it. I put the invisible shield on everything

Sent from my Samsung Captivate/JB CM 10.1 via Tapatalk.

 

...what? So then why is your opinion more correct than the opinion of people who have actually tested the phone?

 

I didn't realize you interpreted it that way. As for the opinion itself, I explained already why I think one test's outcome may not be an accurate final conclusion of the two phones in low light pics, and that final conclusions from a test that may have some unseen anomalies affecting the results of a phone's camera that's designed to be superior in low light on a hardware level, should be taken with a grain of salt until we get more tests and data results to verify this. I can link you to it if you'd like, but I'm pretty sure you don't want to see it again, or care for that matter.

 

You haven't provided any good reason why people should though.
On what basis should people assume there's anything amiss with GSMArena's conclusions?

You stated that because the test didn't support the assumptions about the ultrapixel camera, that '...there is a strong possibility that there are other factors they haven't considered or touched base on that are causing this.'
And that '...it's just that given the hardware and the results we're seeing, there is likely more to this than meets the eye.'
It doesn't sound like someone who's accepting of the what's in front of them, that sounds like you're trying to make excuses for a bad review.

That comment was about the screen, not the camera.
As I said, a number of blogs who have had hands-on time with the S4 have praised the screen - off the top of my head I'd say probably Engadget, The Verge and BGR as they're blogs I read frequently or occasionally.

One site that a large number of people trust because of it's proven track record.
This isn't some one-man show picked from obscurity, this is a site that has been reviewing handsets in-depth for years, performing far more rigorous tests than most so as to provide people with as much useful information as possible.

Unless you have a lower opinion of HTC's reliability than I do, you have to concede that it's extremely unlikely that's the case.
And assuming such just makes it seem like you're unwilling to accept any evidence that reflects badly on the One.

When did anyone say it was not a valid option?
People have merely expressed their personal opinions about the handsets, which happens to be that the S4 is a superior device, in part due to short-comings of the One and in part due to the S4's many additional features and stellar hardware ( stellar/galaxy pun only semi-intended).

It's a real world factor because it doesn't stand the One in good stead for future updates. If they can't get 4.2 out in a timely manner ( a timely manner in this case being 'at launch, a number of months after Google released 4.2'), why would it be likely that future updates would arrive any quicker?
Not to mention, given that HTC have been slower at updating handsets than Samsung as well as quicker to drop support for old handsets than Samsung, there's even less reason to believe that their after-sale support for the One will be on a par with Samsung's for the S4.

I never said it did, I simply listed it as one of the reasons why the One will fail to measure up to the S4.

HTC have a higher faulty return rate than Samsung. Which, in fairness, is not unique - everyone has a higher faulty return rate than Samsung.
But the past few HTC flagships have had a number of niggles including so-so reliability.

The One X was the same but the S3 inevitably had superior support, in spite of the complaints about Samsung's failure to released Exynos source code.
With the i9505 using a Snapdragon SoC, that removes the one complaint of some Devs, so the door is wide-open for the S4 to be the best supported handset on the market.

The microSD slot has been left out because of the decision to utilise a unibody design.
That certainly has nothing to do with cutting costs or efficiency as the unibody is very expensive and time-consuming to produce and has been part of the reason the One's launch has been so troubled.

Yes, I work for Samsung.
Before that I spent more than 4 years working for a retailer called Carphone Warehouse, where I encountered first-hand a number of problems that HTC had, especially in terms of reliability.

My username on XDA is the same as here, same avatar too.

 

On this whole .00001% of the consumers care about SD slot and removable battery... just because the percentage of actual people who will use those features may be small, don't underestimate percentage of impact that it has on consumers in regard to perception.

Many people buy not because they do use those things... but because the option exists. Especially when they know that a similar product has them, it's basically a "geebees" comparison.

On another note, saw an HTC ad in the movie theater today (before GI Joe)... and they focused on one thing, how they have two stereo speakers that face forward and have "woofers", Even they know that if you advertise with something that someone else doesn't have, it could help.

 

I would respectfully disagree with you on the SD slot issue. Many of the people who's phone I fix (family, friends, etc.) all are aware if their phone has a memory card. The ones that don't always mention it so as I will backup the data on their phone. And the one's that don't have a memory card all wish they did. I know they don't know the difference between an CF and microSD card, but they do know that if a phone is capable of using a memory card, it is better to use that since it's less likely they will lose all their music and photos if their phone goes bad.

 

I did actually, If you know the differences between these two cameras on the hardware level (which I assume you do as you seem relatively knowledgeable) it's quite self explanatory as to why the One should out perform the S4 in the low light area. I also didn't deny that GSMArena's tests showed that it didn't outperform the S4 in their low light tests. I merely reasoned that understanding how the HTC One's and S4's cameras are designed hardware wise it technically shouldn't lose to the S4 in regards to low light performance, and that (logically) it would be wise to take the results with a grain of salt (naturally, until more come in to concretely corroborate this or refute it).

No, what I said was

They've also praised the One's screen as well. TechnoBuffalo went as far as to say the One's screen is the best they've seen, and PhoneArena also gave the nod to the One's screen over the S4's screen. My opinion on the subject is that I prefer SLCD, of course not everyone is going to agree, but some do.

You're preaching to the choir, GSMArena is a very well respected review site that I anticipate tests from myself. I'm not questioning their testing methods, I'm merely suggesting that it's quite possible that their HTC One may have had an issue that they were not aware of nor had control of, that may affected their test outcome.

It's not about having a lower opinion, it's about understanding that sometimes devices have issues, it's not a far stretch to think that it's possible that the camera on their HTC One may not have been working as intended. Ignoring that possibility would be silly to put it mildly.

Some of the comments were a bit harsh and over reactive in my opinion, but these things happen.

IIRC there was a reason they went with 4.1 at first, something to do with stability, which in a way makes Sense (pun fully intended) given how smooth the One's UI has been in comparison to touchwiz on the S4. Perhaps the lag people have been seeing in videos, and demos and hands-on isn't a touchwiz problem like I originally thought maybe there is something about 4.2 (although this was an issue on my SGS my SGSII and my friend's S3, so who knows).

In my experience, Samsung is no angel in this department either, at least not in Canada. Mind you, my SGSII was on contract so the carrier might have added a delay of their own to the update as well.

Ah, ok.

The HTC One uses the same Snapdragon chipset, it will also have excellent dev support.

No, actually the Chinese variant (mainland China, not Taiwan) Comes with a micro SD slot. This has nothing to do with the phone utilizing a unibody design.

I have a friend that works at Bestbuy for the last 4 and a half years and he claims that HTC phones are one of the least returned and problematic phones he deals with.

Cool, thanks.

 

Tell the ones that don't have a memory card about MicroUSB-microSD OTG adapters, they'll love you for it, and they can back up their data on those as well. For someone in the market for a phone, that happens to like a particular phone over another, but finds a lack of microSD on the one they prefer, a roadblock, an OTG microSD adapter can solve that issue. Much easier solution than someone settling for a phone they may not want because they need more storage than what's provided.

 

Power users like you may feel that the OTG microSD adapter is a servicable solution. However for 90% of the phone buying public, having to carry around a phone with a dangling dongle off the bottom isn't appealing at all.

 

While I agree some people may not like a wire hanging off their phone, at the very least this solution will help his friends/family he says don't have a memory card but wish they did.

 

About the raging HTC One v SGS4 debate...what surprises me is this. This debate is VERY similar to, say, a MacBook Air versus Thinkpad X230 debate, or a MacBook Pro versus Dell Precision debate...yet the MacBook and its direct Windows equivalents are far more popular with average consumers than the upgradeable/repairable/reliability-first business-class machines, whereas the SGS3 outsold the less-upgradeable-but-more-stylish One X by a massive margin, and that may happen again this generation.

 

In the event you wanted to root the Tab 2 7", I found a stock 4.1.1 ROM that can be flashed. It's basically a stock ROM with root access so you can keep all the stock features.


http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2214147

Sent from my Samsung Captivate/JB CM 10.1 via Tapatalk.

 

Not supported on most phones. USB OTG is a feature of the 3.0+ kernel, but some OEM's don't include hardware or kernel support for it. Samsung's mUSB port transceiver can do MHL, USB Client, Simult. Charging, USB Host... and some other modes that most will never use.

I believe it was with the One X, it had to be implemented through either a custom kernel or ROM. <--- also not feasible for most people.

 

AT&T has exclusive dibs on HTC One with 64GB storage

I've got to hand it to AT&T on this one, that's pretty crafty.

 

You haven't though.
Saying that the One should perform better is just an assumption, one that has been proven wrong.

The situation here is that in theory the One's camera should provide better low-light performance and in practice it doesn't. You're arguing that the test should be 'taken with a grain of salt' because of the theoretical aspect but you haven't offered any reason why the theory should be held in higher regard to the physical results.
Until you can offer some compelling reason why that should be, then like always physical evidence trumps theory.

You may not have denied it but you seem to be looking for ways to try and dismiss it.

Until such time that other reviews present results that conflict with GSMArena's, there's no need not to take it at face value.

I've not seen TechnoBuffalo's comments yet but I had read PhoneArena.
There is a little bit about their comparison which I find a little odd but that's a separate matter.

No-one is ignoring that possibility, I'm simple not assuming it's the case.
If a slew of other comparisons contradict GSMArena's then it raises a valid question, for now though there's no reason to believe that.

Other reviews that didn't compare the S4 and One directly have shown the One's camera to be poor, so it's far less of a stretch that it's simply a poor camera, a marketing long-shot that isn't paying off than it is to assume that GSMArena's review unit was faulty.

They may be less charitable than your average man-on-the-street's take on matters but that's because people here are not average users. Which is not to say that the points don't also hold true for normal people, simply that the reactions are stronger due to the more exacting standards of power-users.
There's also a matter of people being frustrated that HTC don't seem to be learning certain lessons - yes the One is a big step up but there are things they're still getting wrong.

That seems a little ropey given that each new version of Android brings bug-fixes and the like.
If it were unstable, I doubt Samsung would have it on the S4. And it's more than a little suspicious that the company that has launched with the newer version of Android is also the one that has the better record of firmware updates.

I didn't see any noticeable lag when I tried one, though I wasn't pushing it.

Believe me when I say I can list of a load of examples of Samsung providing better firmware updates, all the way back to the original Desire/Galaxy S.

I still feel it's unlikely to measure up to the S4.
Even with Exynos, the S3 received better support than the One X, including CM support despite CM Devs criticising Samsung/Exynos.

I've literally not heard a single word about that.
You don't have a link by any chance?

CPW's own internal figures (which they've only started compiling in the time since I left) show Samsung to have the lowest-return rate, as does market data Samsung use.

You're welcome.

Can we draw a line under this particular point.
Having a cable hanging off your phone is not a replacement for a memory card slot, for either power users or regular people. It might do in a pinch but it's a poor substitution, nowhere near as convenient, frankly impractical and carries the risk of the cable snagging and being pulled out while the card is being accessed.

The lack of a memory card slot is an objective disadvantage of the One, same as it was for the Nexus4.

 

And I pulled the trigger: My Galaxy Tab 2 7.0 should be here next week.

 

I would say for some people I know that want the memory card, the microSD adapter is a viable solution cause they will load the memory card up with their music and will use it mostly in their cars, while their phones are in the car holders. So it is a viable solution for some, but not for other (like my Aunt who has an iPhone).

 

What if they want to charge their phone while in the car?

 

Not while they're playing music. Charger and a headphones jack plugged in at the same time? The feedback will shatter the windshield.

 

Whut?

tenchairs

 

Is there a way to bench Usb transfer speed?
Doesn't feel like using usb if wifi is as fast.

 

Came here for "what"...leaving satisfied.

 

Yesh. If one were to use the headphones jack to listen to music thru the car stereo whilst charging, you can hear a very audible feedback noise. It's been present on pretty much every Android I've dealt with. No issue when streaming music to the car's stereo using Bluetooth A2DP.

 

The One's F2.0 aperture is larger than the S4's F2.2 aperture allowing more light to hit the pixel sensors which are also larger than the S4's. The HTC One's camera should be better in low light pictures because in design, it is. The fact that it didn't perform like it in GSM's tests, should raise questions to any critically thinking mind about why that is, (software issues? hardware issues? a combination of both? why? etc). Given the circumstances, it would be silly for me to not wait for more results and info, before passing an absolute final judgement of which camera is better in low light based off of this review, regardless of the high esteem I hold for GSMArena.

I'm being logical given what I know about the two cameras.

There is a very good reason, as I explained above.

Some other reviews have also shown the One's camera (at 4mp) to be quite good, I have seen some good ones and bad ones from it myself. Of course it's still just a 4mp camera. The whole "Ultrapixel" name just relates to the pixels on the image sensor which are larger than that of the average cellphone camera pixels (including the S4's). That, and the larger aperture are where it's low light strength is.

No company is perfect, Samsung has it's share of frustrated users as well, in regards to touchwiz, design, materials etc

Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but in my personal experience with Samsung, updates were slow and touchwiz had lag issues which still seem to have not been fixed. We'll wait and see how it is at final release though, I expect some improvements.

A lot of people will be buying the S4 so it's dev support should be excellent as usual, however on the Exynos front, some of the devs that worked with the S3 have said they wont be doing anything for Exynos at all in this iteration, so there most likely will be less dev support for Exynos now than there was before. However Cyanogen has said he's still on board and I'm sure he'll be working with both models.

HTC One to sell as TD 101 from China Mobile, LG Optimus Vu 2 Plus also spotted

HTC One called TD 101 in China. LG Optimus Vu 2 Plus headed to China, too » Unwired View

I wasn't questioning it, merely adding what my friend told me for the sake of the discussion.

 

Theory doesn't trump real world results. I'll trust tests over your theory about the cameras.

 

You're still arguing all this on the basis of which should be better on paper.
That's meaningless when real-world results prove otherwise.

Samsung have a track record of getting the best out of camera sensors, much more so than HTC.
It's not at all unreasonable that the S4 would prove to be superior to the One.

It's not though.
You're arguing against the reality of the situation because the results 'should' be better, should isn't a proper reason - 'should' is trumped by 'is'.

Other reviews have shown the One's camera to be generally lacking, the low-light performance is relatively good but overall the lack of detail hampers the camera more than the 'ultrapixels' offer any benefit.

A smaller number of people and those frustrations are borne of subjective disadvantages nor objective ones.
TouchWiz may not be to everyone's liking but that's preference, not an objective disadvantage. Same for the design and materials. The HTC has a number of objective problems/shortcomings.

This seems to be a recurring point (not from you), the only points people can come up with to use against Samsung's handsets are subjective whereas they have a number of objective advantages over the competition.

They've certainly gotten better over the years but as I say, all the way back to the original Desire and Galaxy S, they've out-done HTC.
The Desire was never properly upgraded to Gingerbread due to HTC's short-sighted choice of hardware, whereas the S was updated to Gingerbread.

Yes, I know that the Exynos model will receive less support, which is a shame. But given that most major markets will only receive the Snapdragon model and the Exynos model that will be available internationally will have a disadvantage due to the lack of LTE, I guess it's not the end of the world.
My point was more that even in spite of the issues surrounding developing for Exynos handsets, that didn't stop it receiving the likes of CM builds before the One X.

It's a shame, I think if the international Exynos model had had LTE, then the Dev support would've been there even in spite of the protests - it would've been too compelling a device to pass up.

Thank you.
It's a weird move, it's almost as though they've given China a superior handset - not only does it have a microSD slot but it has an 8MP camera, which whilst not sporting 'ultrapixels' could well address some of the niggles about the international One's camera.

Fair enough.
HTC certainly aren't the worst company when it comes to faults *cough* Blackberry *cough*

 

I can honestly say I've never heard anything like that. I've been using that exact config in 3 different cars now with take-your-pick-of-android... no sounds, except music.


What car and what devices?

They're intentionally gimping the US models. Nice.

 

Has anyone here used "Samsung Remote PRO-TouchSquid" It's a $49 app but appears to be a very comprehensive IR remote. Not to many reviews, but the ones it has are really good. 4.7/5 on the play store rating. Thinking about trying it but wanted to see if anyone here had tried it first hand. Looks like there is great support for it. Thoughts?