Tons of basic x205 questions

I'm thinking of getting an x205 since I have some issues with OS X, and Dell's decent systems all cost close to double the price.

Just some dumb, basic questions...

-Does Toshiba ship OS restore discs? Do you have to generate them yourself? And in either case, are the restore discs "clean" without all the bloatware?
-Related question-can you reinstall to a different drive of a different size (default config is two hard drives...possibly in a software RAID?)

-I assume you need to use modded INF files to get real Nvidia drivers installed on the x205-laptopvideo2go and all that. That works, right? (Silly question, but I might as well ask )

-Where/what/what brand do I buy for a cable that converts HDMI to DVI so I can use it with a normal DVI monitor? If I'm using the HDMI output, can I still get sound from the headphone jack?

-Can I fairly easily get XP SP-2 installed on one of these? I'm thinking I might want to set up a dual boot for games that don't like Vista.

-Can I buy a spare AC adapter for it like I can for a Dell or Macbook? Where? (I'm thinking I'd like to just leave one at work, so there's less wear and tear on it from wrapping it up all the time).

-Do Toshiba's have clean audio output through headphones? (ie no static or hiss like I hear on many Dell laptops?)

-Is the x205 built so that it can run the CPUs at full blast all the time? It looks like it's large and well ventilated, so I'm hoping I could run Folding @ Home on it whenever it's plugged in. I'm nervous to do that on a Macbook Pro, because it gets so hot and the fans come on so much.

-Any comments on Toshiba's reliability or tech support or anything? I'd plan on buying a separate drive and swapping it in, so I can swap it back to the original drive if I need to send it in for service (so my personal data isn't floating around out there )

-Is a 1.8GHz Core 2 with 2MB L2 cache decent enough for today's gaming? I know that should perform probably similarly to a super fast Pentium 4
Wow, tons 'o questions. Thanks guys!

 

1, they are reinstall disk not clean install disc
2.Don't know
3.Check your local electronics store
4. Is it offered with XP or only vista?
5. yes
6.no
7.Yes, but why would you want it to when Dynamic Switching allows it to raise the speed in a second?
8.no experiance
9. Yes, more than enough about 100x faster then the fastest Pentium 4 & qieter & cooler

 

Important thing to note about the x205: It's a 10lb brick.

 

I don't mind the weight.

So it sounds like these things DON'T have clean output from the headphone jack (no hisses, crackles, etc.?)

I went to Best Buy after work with a DVD and a pair of headphones to try one out-only every single Toshiba I tried (3 of them) wouldn't play ANY audio out of the headphone jack when I plugged it in. They got a "Geek Squad" guy, who thought it was related to all the garbage software Best Buy installs, but at any rate I wasn't able to try it.
(I tried a Sony just to see if it would work, and it did play audio through the headphone jack despite Best Buy's software, and the audio output was very clean-as is my Macbook Pro's).

 

Two other things I forgot to ask:

-Can you have a DVI monitor hooked up to the HDMI port and still get audio out of the headphone jack?

-If Toshiba's restore discs aren't "clean", do they at least allow you to install to a different hard drive with a different size? I'd plan to swap out the two included drives for a single Seagate drive, so that if I need warranty service I can swap the originals in and not need to compromise my data.

 

Wolfpup,

I just listened to some ripped WMAs and played SupCom via the headphone jack on my x205, and while I did not crank the volume up to the max (had to hear if my wife spoke to me...), they worked, and sounded fine.

Not sure what the problem was at BB...

And while the "buttons" on the touchpad may be gimmicky, I find that the volume slider on the right side of the pad is very useful.

Jeeps

 

Thanks so much! Okay, I won't worry about that then. Those Dells I've tried had amazingly junky audio.

Although I guess on a Windows PC it's somewhat of a moot point since you can always buy a Creative Labs PC Card soundcard for it.

 

When I upgraded my cpu on my X205-9349 to a T7700 I kinda fixed the gimmicky feel of the touchpad buttons by putting some double sided tape underneath the plastic buttons and now they feel just right like on other laptops.

 

I use headphones on mine all the time, even though the speaker system is pretty awesome on this laptop. Great sound and no noise or hiss.

 

wow it seems everyone is very happy with these x205's.. now i have to decide if its worth abotu 200$ to get the sager instead.. hmmmmm i can get the 49 model for 1450 now

 

Great! Thank you!

$1450? Wow, that's even better than the $1500 that's the cheapest I've seen. It's probably silly, but I think I'll bite if it drops another $50 or so. I hate the slowish CPU (it looks like game performance really will suffer as compared to the 2.4Ghz/4MB Core 2)...but on the other hand the price is good, and the GPU is about as good as it gets right now.

On the other hand...MAYBE if Dell ends up with a system with an 8800 soonish. That's what I was originally waiting for.

I don't like that the Toshiba's don't have clean install discs either like Dell gives you

 

I have the same dilema as you with many questions about the X205-9349 laptop .
I had to choose at the end between it and between a Sony Vaio AR520E that was priced then $300 below X205's price even , nore or less they both have the same HW ( minus the HD-DVD drive at Sony and 4200rpm drive at Sony instead of 5400rpm on X205) .
Then I went to BestBuy and checked both displays and I have to tell you that Sony's display is on an other league compared to Toshiba's .
The white is sooooo WHITE on Sony but unfortunatelly in my opinion it is not on X205 display .
I strongly advise to check Toshiba's display before you take a decision .
So at the end I bought that Sony .

 

yeah toshiba was using samsung displays they have switched to almost exclusively lg panels now which imo are 100% better than the samsungs out there... sp if possible i would def see if you can check the display before bringing it home.. im going tomm to look at the toshiba's screen on the x205.. my buddy had one transfered for me to look at

 

Wolfpup, to answer your tech support question, I have had my A75 for about three years and I have only had maybe three issues with it. The first was a heating issue from some dust that had accumulated inside, but Toshiba promptly cleaned it out and replaced any parts that might have been damaged, and it only took about 2 weeks. (They were in the middle of a big recall on another model. The other two issues arose from my own stupidity. (I spilt a can of soda and had to reinstall the OS because a hidden key combo was triggered and I dropped the AC Adapter and chipped it.) No matter what the problem was, Toshiba was always there to help. As a side note, their online resource support is second to none. I have worked with Apple's and Microsoft's databases and they are no where near as helpful as Toshiba's.

 

No they don't. Not even close. Besides the issues you mentioned, that Sony only has an 8400, while the Toshiba has an 8700. For gaming purposes the Toshiba is more than twice as powerful.

Thanks so much! I'm feeling more and more comfortable buying a Toshiba. I'm still slightly on the fence about this particular deal at Amazon, but I'm definetly going to keep them in mind. I *love* that they've started producing gaming systems. Really great to see (and to finally see a laptop in a physical store that can game!)

 

Regarding the Graphic Card that's true . X205 has a 8700 card and Sony AR520 "only" 8400 one .
Anyway , I read in different forums that the 8600/8400 cards are at least equal to 8700 if not better .
I'm working with different Video Editing programs , some of them "heavy" ones and the graphic\video section of this laptop is just great .
More than that , my WE Index has a mark of 59 in the "Graphics" section and a 52 mark in the 3D Graphics elements section that are very high .
From what I saw here from different users comments the same marks at 9349 and also at 9359 models are much lower .
I think that you should check it as well in a store before you take the decision .

 

^^^ what?? no way at all the 8400 is even in the same league as the 8700 not even at all close

 

No kidding. I wouldn't put much stock in a forum that's claiming an 8400 is equal to or better than an 8700

I'm still a bit fuzzy on the Vista reinstall thing-how to do a clean install. So far all I can find is one person used I guess their own separate Vista disc to do it, which I don't want to buy.

Does the x205 ship with a physical reinstall disc? If not, does it have some type of software to generate your own reinstall disc?

My understanding is once you've got this reinstall disc, it's not clean, it still puts all the bloatware on the system as before-so it there any way to get or generate a clean install of Vista aside from just buying your own copy of it?

 

NOPE!!
Not even close.

 

Hey zfactor. What makes you think LG is better than the samsung display? I am asking this question because some people here in the forums considered themselves as being lucky as they had the samsung display! Can you tell us more about this? Thanks

PS: I have the LG display myself.

 

ive seen them both in person.. on more than one system (both models lg and samsung)... the lg is in another league imo.. the only one thing the samsung did have that was better was viewing angle which i will say it wins hands down. better all the way around. so far a auo i saw had THE BEST viewing angles ive ever seen period... ive never seen a better one than that one auo i saw on a asus system.. again this is viewing angle wise not overall colors etc..

on the lg whites are well white.. blacks are well black, the lg is very bright has much better contrast overall. it took FAR less calibration to get the lg to be excellent than the samsung.

the samsung whites almost always look yellowish to me on nearly every samsung panel ive seen including larger tv screens i think its just the nature of their panels.. black were nice on the samsung but almost to much so.. when you had a image that had different shades of black/greys at times it was hard to make them all out they kinda got washed together..
the samsung took much more calibration to get acceptable results and even then the numbers were way off the lg display.. it did get MUCH better dont get me wrong but not even close..

the one downside to lg panels is the viewing angle. as i said the samsung will kill the lg in this regard the lg washes out fairly quickly at almost all angles. samsung def wins that area.

also i have seen soooooo many grainy dirty looking samsungs panels now i wouldnt even take a chance on them.. its like playing craps... where yes i have seen a few lg's like this but its been literally A FEW...

samsungs colors are darker also than the lg hard to describe without you seeing it.. but blue's as i said about the blacks.... its kinda the same with most darker colors. increasing the contrast some and the brightness a touch does help but then that causes other issues that i wouldnt want either.

im not saying every samsung is bad.. please dont take it that way either, what i saying is ive seen far far more bad samsungs than lg's and it does take a lot more work / calibration to make them appear acceptable to me.. and i am picky

 

Guys ,
If so , and the 8700 card is so good , why the Graphics and the Gaming Graphics of both 9349 and 9359 marks of Vista WEI are so low compared with 8400 of Sony ?
How do you explain it ?

 

vista wei is crap.. dont even worry about what it says it doesnt actually go into detail about testing the gpu its so much more cpu dependant

 

Thank you for taking your time and explaining it. Cheers

 

The 8600GT and 8700 have more than double the hardware of the 8400. It's not even close. Double the execution hardware, double the ROPs, 2-4x the memory bandwidth, etc. They're actually better at accelerating Blu Ray and HD-DVDs, let alone 3D content.

That Sony is fine for just browing the web and general word processing, that kind of thing. But for games or anything that relys on the GPU, the Toshiba is literally more than twice as powerful for the same price. The Sony is a *TOTAL* rip off by comparison.

 

On the paper , you're right - 8700 SHOULD BE better than the 8400 or the 8600 . The question is " It is really better in practice ? How do you really test if it is really so good ?
The only way we can compare is by using testbanches as Windows Vista is offering us .
Gaming is better period with 9349 or 9359 than Sony ? Yes , it should be so ! But how came the WEI marks are so low on these machines especially on the "Gaming" and "3D Gaming" sections ? If it is not related to the video card , to what it be related ?

I think that you don't have to believe me . The ones who own the X205 probably know what I am talking about . The ones who don't and want to buy , check yourelf what the WEI marks on Toshiba are before buying . If you're not concerned about it , go ahead and buy .
If not , check machines with better WEI marks . Sony , yes , that Sony with this primitive 8400 video card , would be in this case a good start .

 

what are you basing this on?? wei ??? man forget that thing ... its garbage... wei means NOTHING AT ALL... this has been gone over again and again and again all over the internet... dont bother even worrying about the wei... it means NOTHING

 

It's easy to test, and of course has been tested. Anything that uses 3D (or HD video acceleration) will over twice as fast and that was benchmarked when these parts launched.

No, that's not the only way you can test. In fact that's not even really a test.

Are they? Are equivalent drivers installed, etc.?

No, it isn't. The Sony isn't appropriate for games. If you're just doing office stuff it's fine, although in that case you might as well get a system for half the price.

I realize you don't follow graphics hardware so probably don't know how silly this sounds, but your suggestion that an 8600GT or 8700 is going to be out performed by something with less than half the execution hardware is just ludicrous. The 8400 is basically the same thing with all of it's specs chopped in half.

 

Take some time and read the GPU sticky in the gaming hardware section. I'm sure a lightbulb will go on.

 

IlanD,
All synthetic benchmarks and indeed all benchmarks have an error margin and certain oddities.

If you want synthetic... try 3dmark06... it tends to favor faster processors with its biased processor-only portion, but gives comparable scores provided you use a specific resolution.

If you prefer games, use a timedemo...
However, certain games work better on certain configurations and are innately biased due to how certain game engines work. They do show you what card is better for that game, however.

WEI is not a benchmark for 3d rendering in any way shape or form.
It is designed to see how well windows vista runs on something, and frankly the 8700 is more powerful than vista requires by a long shot.

The 8700GT is either a high-end medium-range card or a low-end enthusiast card depending on how you look at it. The 8400 is a low-end part. It is no surprise the 8700GT will handily outperform the 8400 in any recent rendering benchmark used.

 

So many words but where the facts are ?
You are locked on Toshiba and I am probably locked on my Sony .
We just need to find any benchmarks on the Internet to check how good \ not good the both companies \ laptops perform .
You're completelly wrong if you think that these Vaio laptops with Santa Rosa CPU and 2G RAM were been made for office works .
For office works you don't need Santa Rosa and not 2G of RAM , not a NVidia 8400 card and not a SONY DISPLAY .
Sony Vaio AR deries works grat with graphics , 3D modeling and engineering softwares , Video editing and of course playing HD-DVD and Blu-Ray or any other High Definition formats . Yes , games too .

So , if you have any benchmarks on these laptops where we can see how good the 8700 perform on X205 series compared with others , it will be great to see it here .

An other remark - I don't understand why is so important if you have a LG display or a Samsung display on the X205 laptop .
Guys , I was at this point . I really wanted a X205 laptop as well . I had the $300-400 to spend more on it and not on Vaio AR520E . The money was not a problem here . But then , I've compared Toshiba displays with Sony's display . People , it does not matter what's your laptop hardware if the display sucks . It is the display that you're watching when you're working with the laptop .
Put a Sony display close to a Toshiba display and you'll see what you cannot see when you're not doing it . IT IS A HUGE QUALITY DIFFERENCE between these displays , no matter if you are comparing it to 9349's LG display or 9359's Samsung display . Check it by yourselves .

 

It is not 9349's LG and 9359's Samsung. 9359's can be with LG's too. Just like mine.

 

IlanD, ask anyone... even Nvidia (the designers of the GPU)
The 8700 is designed to be superior by a pretty large margin.
You can find the stats on their website or on wiki if you prefer.

if you'd like to browse the reviews here you can find some 8400s and 8600s and even some 8700s...

This doesn't make the 8400 a bad GPU, just less powerful than the 8700.

If the Sony is good for you, then its good for you.

Just understand the 8400 GPU is designed for the guy who is more likely to use his laptop for DVD and business usage than someone who is going to try to play Bioshock or any recent game. This doesn't mean you cannot game, it means you will be turning down resolution and settings as compared to someone with an 8600 or 8700.

Oh, and my x205 has a beautiful screen... I have never seen a Sony with better EVER and I work in an IT department which services well over 100 laptops. I guess its all a matter of taste.

 

testing 1..2...3..

 

Hey, to the guy asking about the clean install of vista, there's some guides I've ran across online, but basicly you need to either find a vista disc and then install the same version that came with your system and enter your key and activate that way, or, find a "Windows Anytime Upgrade" disc, which has all the versions, pick your poison that came with your system, and install using that using your current key code. I got a disc off a buddy that had come with his Acer desktop, but you can even get them from CompUSA's website for $5.00 with free shipping... so, that'll get ya windows freshly installed, then just get all the newest drivers and install the software you want....

~Allen


...it is annoying though they don't provide this stuff anymore with the system!

 

So Kernal, your expert opinon, 8700M GT or Dual 8600M GT's?

 

This has nothing whatsoever to do with the brand. I don't care if you're comparing two Sonys or a Toshiba and an Apple. That's irrelevant.

Find benchmarks?!? These cards were benchmarked when they launched back in May. Predictably the 8400 came in at less than half the performance (I say predictably because all of it's specs were chopped in half).

You're going to have a heck of a time finding a direct comparison between the 8400 and 8700, because no one bothers to benchmark the 8400 anymore. Since the 8700GT is significantly faster than the 8600GT, and the 8600GT stomps on the 8400, I think we can safely assume the 8700GT is also faster than the 8400

You made a mistake if you bought this for games. You already need to turn down settings massively to play many modern games on an 8400. The 8400 is Nvidia's budget chip, it's better than Intel's video (everything is) but it is NOT appropriate for a system that needs strong 3D.

It's not even as good at playing Blu Ray and HD DVD discs. It requires a lot more CPU assistance than the 8600.

If you think it's just as good (!) or better (!!!) then ask yourself this: Why does it cost more to get an 8600 or 8700? Why do people pay more? Why do those cards benchmark over twice as fast? Why do only low and mid range laptops ship with 8400s, while 8600s are in mid and high end laptops?

Why does SONY give you an 8600GT if you pay more, for crying out loud.

I've seen both in the stores, and they both look good to me. From others it sounds like it's luck of the draw for what screen you get (true of all laptops that I'm aware of), so what you saw isn't generalizable to all of those models. I'm a fan of Sony generally, but they do NOT make a competative notebook for gaming. Their cheapest system that's okay for games is $3000, and for much less you can get a much higher end Toshiba or Dell.

Anyway, I'll say it again, RETURN that system if gaming is something you want to do. Even if it's just occasional gaming, that Toshiba will last you over TWICE as long before you have to replace it. Or get a Dell 1520/1720 (with an 8600GT...which by the way costs $100 to upgrade from an 8400), or get whatever else.

Just get an 8600GT or better as a MINIMUM for a gaming system. I think the 8600GT is a very solid performer for todays games at medium resolutions, but even it is being pushed to the very max (and isn't really powerful enough to run games in DX 10 mode).

 

OK , OK - I got your point guys and now I know why our point of view are so different .
You are looking for a powerful GAMING laptop . I am looking for a strong enginnering and overall applications laptop . I am in gamming too but I even thought to use this laptop for gamming from the beginning . For it I use my dektop with a 24'' screen attached to it . I cannot see any reason of playing games on a 17'' computer but you probably have your own reasons .
Now I understand why you tell me why the 8700 card is so great . Because you are gammers and it is what you're doing with your laptops most of the time .

Regarding the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD you are wrong . I've tried both and are running fantastic on my Sony model . The 8400 card was the first card on the market dedicated to HiDef stuff .
8700 does not handle HiDef stuff better than 8400 but exactelly the same .

To have a HD-DVD drive in your laptop is great but you have to know that you pay for it and the question is if you see yourself pay $25 an buy a HD-DVD movie to see it once ? I am far to do it .
Anyway a DVD HDVDV drive combo costs about $100 more than a regular DVD-RW .
Now , the prices of Sony AR520E and Toshiba X205-9349 are similar but with the Toshiba you have some good improvements : better video card 8700 ( and not 8400) , faster Hard Drive of 5400 rpm (and not 4200 as in Sony) , bigger hard drive of 240G ( and not 200G only as Sony has ) and also a HD-DVD drive (Sony has no combo ) . At the end you get also 5 HD-DVD movies for free from Toshiba and it is a $100 value present as well .
The price of Toshiba was down in just one month from $1999 to $1550 . The price of Sony was since it was announced and till now the same $1500 ( from time to time you can find it at $1400 at Best Buy ).

Now , the big questions :
How come that you get so much value on a Toshiba machine compared with that Sony at the same price and people are still buying Sony machines ?
and
Why do you think Toshiba move down so much the prices of these machines in the last month ? I never seen a electronics product manufacturer sold a new product 25% off just after one month on the market .

 

That's what we've been saying from the beginning, and what you've been claiming isn't true. For anything that relies on the GPU, the 8700GT is going to make the system WELL over twice as powerful as a system with an 8400.

Those other applications are going to run just as well on the Toshiba, so there's really no compromise.

Do *NOT* keep that machine if you intend to ever use it for gaming. Even if it's not going to be your main system, you're still going to have to replace it twice as soon as a system with an 8600GT (let alone an 8700GT).

You're completely wrong. The 8600GT (and by extension 8700) requires MUCH less CPU assistance than the 8400. The 8600GT is able to mostly take over the work of decoding Blu Ray/HD DVD, but the 8400 (again) has only half the hardware, and leaves a lot more work left for the CPU.

And yes, this too was benchmarked months ago. Anandtech along with I'm sure dozens of other hardware sites showed this months ago. To quote from them:

Because there are people like you who don't understand the hardware, and just pick it up based on the name. There are tons of examples of price points that make no sense in the computer world. Dell sells some lower end systems for more than some higher end systems, Toshiba has some worse models at the same price as better models, etc., etc., etc.

Wow, you haven't? Hate to break it to you, but this happens constantly in the tech world. I'd guess prices were pushed downward especially because of the (theoretically better) SLI systems Toshiba's introduced in the same price points as their older single GPU systems.

You sound like you're really trying to justify this purchase. I keep repeating this because I hope you seriously accept it-that system is *NOT* appropriate for gaming. If you want to use it at all for gaming, take it back. If you don't want to do ANY gaming on it, then you can get a much better deal than that Sony. You don't need to spend anywhere close to that price. Either way you're kind of getting ripped off. It's not the worst deal ever, but either way you could save a lot of money.

 

8700 is 30%-ish better than an 8600,

SLI 8600 should be 55-75% better than the 8600 in the games you can get SLI to function properly. (remember SLI and Vista are not exactly friends right now)

The SLI 8600 should have better performance, but it will produce more heat.
The x205 casing is great at heat management though.

I like my 8700 very much, but I cannot see it outperforming an 8600 SLI setup even overclocked. (provided the mobile 8xxx GPUs scale in SLI like their desktop brethren)

I think I'd go with the 8600 SLI setup.

 

But there's still the issue of actually getting drivers that will run SLI on an Intel chipset. I think there's an excellent chance you won't be able to on any regular basis, so you'll be stuck running a single 8600GT (at best-assuming the reference drivers will allow you to run one of them).

 

Agreed on the question marks, but let's hope they got that all worked out.

They are going to have some very upset customers if they didn't test the SLI capabilties.

That being said, I am safe... just gotta get this BIOS OC to work and I will be a very VERY happy camper.

 

The anytime upgrade disc is only about $10 shipped. After that, you just use the driver disc that comes with the Toshiba to install the drivers and apps you want. Make sure you install the sound drivers or you won't be able to play HD-DVD's. I had that problem and couldn't figure it out. Thankfully, tech support was able to find the problem.

I'm very happy with my x205. I plan on upgrading the CPU in the near future, though. Some others that have done so have had some awesome results with frame rates. Heck, this laptop seems extremely upgradeable.

Good luck with your purchase decision.

 

That's what I was thinking too. I have my choices narrowed down to the s9359 and the SLi3. I can afford either and want the best, but I think I might wait until december and see if some of the SLI issues get worked out, or if the 8800M comes out.