Official Sony VAIO F Series Owners lounge

At Dell Canada the XPS 16 is $600 off (price reduced) right now.

 

That is a large amount off. I got mine for around $450 off by tele.

 

With the HD screen? That and the decent ATI card are the (only) reason to choose the Dell over the F11.

It even includes the 9-cell battery as a Promotion, normally $100 extra.

 

Yep, FHD screen. Here is the spec.

Total Charges: $2,233.45
224-6716 1 Studio XPS 16 Notebook
317-2361 1 Intel Core i7 720QM 1.6GHz (2.8 GHz Turbo Mode, 6MB Cache)
317-2366 1 8GB, DDR3, 1333MHz 2 Dimm
320-8333 1 15.6 inch Wide Screen 16:9 1080p Full HD WLED LCD, W/2.0 MP, XPS 1645
421-1010 1 Dell Webcam Central v1.4
421-0188 1 Facial Recognition
320-8350 1 ATI Mobility RADEON HD 4670 1GB
330-5460 1 DELL RESOURCE DVD,BACK-UP,XPS 1645
341-8989 1 500GB 7200RPM Free Fall SensorSeagate Hard Drive
320-8352 1 Obsidian Black High Gloss Finish with Leather XPS 1645
421-1737 1 Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium, 64bit, English
421-0323 1 Windows Live Search,Multiple User Interface
420-6576 1 DELL WELCOME,Software Dimension/Inspiron
420-9100 1 Dell Dock Consumer
420-6436 1 PC-Restore, Dim/Insp
421-0187 1 Dell Support Center Software 64 Bit 2.0
420-7938 1 Dell Connect 2.1
421-0092 1 DELL-DOWNLOAD-FLAG
330-6222 1 Windows 7 Label
420-9352 1 Dell, Software, Wild Tangent Inc Games
420-9691 1 DataSafe Local BackUp 2.0 Basic
430-3605 1 Integrated 10/100 Network Card
410-1883 1 ADOBE READER 9.0 MULTI- LANGUAGE
313-7056 1 BluRay Combo Drive
421-1361 1 MOD,SW,RXO,EZCD,10.3,DE,FI
421-1583 1 Cyberlink Power DVD 8.3 Blu-Ray Disk Playback
421-2000 1 Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi MB
430-0737 1 Intel WiFi Link 5300 802.11AGN Half Mini Card
410-2090 1 McAfee Sapphire MUI, 15-Month
312-0950 1 9-cell Battery
412-1397 1 No Productivity Software requested
950-3339 1 3 Year Limited Warranty
980-5877 1 CompleteCare Accidental DamageProtection, Inspiron, 3 Year
905-6418 1 Dell Limited Hardware Warranty Plus At-Home Service, Extended Year(s)
905-5637 1 Dell Limited Hardware Warranty Plus At-Home Service, Initial Year
905-6832 1 Banctec In-Home Service after Remote Diagnosis Plus Nights and Weekends, 2 Year Extended
906-5390 1 Banctec In-Home Service after Remote Diagnosis Plus Nights and Weekends, Initial Year
412-0360 1 Soft Contracts - Banctec
412-0358 1 Soft Contracts - Consumer Complete Care
960-3652 1 Warranty Support,2 Year Extended
960-8710 1 Warranty Support,Initial Year
467-7771 1 Thanks for choosing Dell!
991-1179 1 LoJack Theft Recovery Service,XPS - 1 Year DHS
420-8655 1 LoJack Theft Recovery Softwarefor Laptops, 1 Year
991-9799 1 50GB DATASAFE ONLINE 1.1 FOR SDO/DIM/INS/XPS
420-9328 1 DATASAFE ONLINE 1.1 50GB
988-0099 1 To activate your online backupaccount, go to Start, Programs, DataSafe Online
330-0171 1 S and P Drop-in-Box Marcom forDHS Notebooks
430-0700 1 Dell Wireless 370 Bluetooth Module (2.1+EDR)
464-7520 1 Special Offer $100 off (included in price)
* GMOR:GMORAPR
A2465508 1 Pro-planet Laptop Sleeve - Fits Dell Laptops with Screen Sizes Up to 16 - Black - Designed for Dell

 

Sony F is more expensive vs the XPS 16. Basically here is what I got below. I get a better screen, better video card, more memory, bigger HD, better accidental warranty, a case on the Dell. On the Sony, I only got a slightly larger screen (but it sucked vs LED), a slightly faster processor (not worth the extra cost difference) and a blu-ray burner instead of a reader.

The XPS is the better deal.

Sony F: Price - $2211.13

I7-820
6gb 1333mhz ram
320gb hd
Blu-Ray Burner
16.4" Full HD 1920x1080P Screen
Nvidia 330M 1gb Video card
Extended Battery
3 year accidental coverage warranty
Win7 64bit Home Prem.
Backlite keyboard

XPS 16: Price - $2233.45
i7-720
8gb 1333mhz ram
500gb HD
Blu-Ray Reader / Slot loading
15.4" Full WLED 1920x1080p screen
ATI Radeon HD 4670 1gb
Extended 9 cell battery
Case
3 year accidental coverage warranty
Win 7 64bit Home Prem.
Backlite keyboard

 

http://feber.se/mac/art/173716/brnd_imac_fortfarande_fungeran/

I doubt the Vaio would survive. Anyone damaged their F11 yet?

 

I put together the same package but without additional warranty and without Bluray (I'd add the Panny UJ240 for full BD burning) for $1848 cdn before taxes.

Sony has royally screwed me, I ordered the F11 the day it went online, and again two weeks later when the GT330 was still available, (There's no way in Hades I'd want the GT310, the 330 is bad enough) and the order was confirmed, Priority build, and everything; it was shipped with the GT310 instead, now they're saying I can't have the GT330 at all, just the 310. I ordered my system BEFORE other Canadian buyers in this forum who still got the GT330! I was one of the early promoters of this system, and an eager buyer, yet this is what happens. If that's not settled in the next couple of days I'll flame Sony right here.

 

The laptop was on the mains, and it shut down / went into hibernation whilst I was actually typing on it! Nothing major software-wise is on it appart from iTunes and Microsoft Office.

 

Guys, are you crazy!? FullHD looks too smal on a 16.4 vaio screen - what would that be like on a dell's 15.4 - this is madness! And it's not Sparta at all Dell might have a good value/price ratio, but don't take a 15.4" with FullHD, imho! I hope Sony's going to make a A series with a 18.4" screen and some i7 CPU - that would rock )

 

Yep, it was on the mains all the time when it happened. I was actively using it - at the time tying on it when the laptop shut down / went into hibernation. There is no major software on it yet as it is brand new - only iTunes and Microsoft Office.

 

That is very odd. Have you tried checking the Power Management settings in the Vaio Control and Windows Power Management options? I would try disabling all auto-hibernate (even though none of them should technically have kicked in if you were on mains and actively using the laptop) and then investigate further from there.

 

Anyone experiencing delays with their orders?
I ordered on 2/04 with Estimated Ship Date to be 2/12
I've called several times and the ship date kept getting pushed back until they told me they're unsure...pretty frustrating !

 

Due to delays and a slight chance there might be an IPS panel in next revision of MacBookPro I actually cancelled my order for F11 and now eagerly waiting for next Tuesday to finally make my mind. I'm still considering F11 [price-wise], but at the same time I might pay extra for a really decent screen.

 

It's not as bad as you think when the screen is clear, great brightness all over it. It is rated very high for one of the best laptop screens ever right now.

 

I see all this talk about Dell XPS 16 versus Vaio F. I researched the hell out of both of these prior to buying my F series - the Dell 16" RGB screen is supposed to be amazing, but that is NOT the screen that is shipped with the XPS 16 now. They are shipping the 15.6" HD WLED screen, which is a big difference. And as far as video card differences, we are talking negligible amounts. The dell was more expensive, unless you can find a good deal through the Dell Outlet from someone who returned their XPS 16 with the 16" RGB LED screen. And then, you will have to get the 130Watt power supply in order to utilize the "fixed" bios which will not throttle the i7 when plugged in.

So, if you want a lot of hassle in order to get basic operation working (non-throttled cpu), and a lot of research and shopping to find an 16" RGB LED screen with properly specced machine from dell outlet, then by all means, go buy an XPS 16.

For me, it was very easy to walk into Best Buy, see the Sony Vaio, understand about some simple microphone fix (turn it off, when I need it, I can use my external mic, or turn it on for the short period I am skyping or MSN Video my family). Also, my ONLY other complaint about the Sony Vaio was the loud fan - but I'm equally certain that the Dell XPS 16 will have an audible cooling system - it's a quad core laptop for crying out loud.

These are equivalent systems, and I disagree with those who are in the Sony Vaio F series OWNERS LOUNGE promoting the Dell XPS 16 like it is some gift by God. It's basically the same system, and depending on pricing, it is often more expensive, unless you buy it used.

/rant

 

Hi All,

Am new here, so you will have to bear with me! I recently ordered a Vaio F series custom build from sony style UK. After a few weeks it arrived, very exciting, but on inspection, unfortunately I had to return it due to the fact the LCD did not appear to be properly aligned to the case (see photo)

There was a 3mm black strip along the right hand side and a 2mm one on the top of the screen. The left side appeared to be OK the the pixels where flush with the casing.

You could see this from boot up so it was not a case of resizing the resolution of anything. Anyway it was returned and I have a replacement (same mode) on order.

Today I walked into a sony center and guess what the screen looked exactly the same!! A small black strip on the top and right. Is it just me or are they all like this. I have had many laptops in my time and 3 Vaios prior to this - they all had good screens.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Anyone have any issues with screen no properly aligned?

Thanks, all feedback appreciated!

 

It maybe the NON-RGB screen, but per all the reviews, it is barely any difference between them and the WLED FHD screen is worlds better than the Sony F screen. So it is NOT a big difference. Very little.

The 330M on the Sony, or now the 310 is much slower than the ATI on the XPS.

 

Yeah, I'm in a pickle myself... :confused2:

The Sony is a bangin' value though.

 

Not really. Sony F is more expensive vs the XPS 16. Basically here is what I got below. I get a better screen, better video card, more memory, bigger HD, better warranty, a case on the Dell. On the Sony, I only got a slightly larger screen (but it sucked vs LED), a slightly faster processor (not worth the extra cost difference) and a blu-ray burner instead of a reader.

The XPS is the better deal.

Sony F: Price - $2211.13

I7-820
6gb 1333mhz ram
320gb hd
Blu-Ray Burner
16.4" Full HD 1920x1080P Screen
Nvidia 330M 1gb Video card
Extended Battery
3 year accidental coverage warranty
Win7 64bit Home Prem.
Backlite keyboard

XPS 16: Price - $2233.45
i7-720
8gb 1333mhz ram
500gb HD
Blu-Ray Reader / Slot loading
15.4" Full WLED 1920x1080p screen
ATI Radeon HD 4670 1gb
Extended 9 cell battery
Case
3 year accidental coverage warranty
Win 7 64bit Home Prem.
Backlite keyboard

 

nizmoz, i respectfully disagree, the RGB screen was really hyped, and the owners of the screen who posted about it said it was much better (Dell XPS 16 " screen).

I'll go spec it on the Dell website right now - cost to order and match my Sony Vaio... $1574, after some dell "special" with a blu-ray and 6 gig of ram and the 15.6" hi-def screen. As I said, it's a "comparable system". That's before tax/shipping. I bought my Vaio at Best Buy for 1450 after tax in Nevada.

Your specs are a little misleading, you had to add the upgraded intel CPU to get the sony price that high, there's no real noticeable difference for 99% of users from 6gig to 8gig ram, the hard drive difference is very cheap to upgrade, etc etc.


And as far as the 330M being much slower... well, from notebookcheck.com GPU comparisons, 3dMark 05 for ATI is 12000's, and 330m is 13000s. Actually didn't expect 330 to do better. But game performance was better for the ATI by a small margin.

Finally, the Dell XPS gives up nearly an inch of screen "real estate". That's a lot. I think the Vaio is a screaming deal - hence I put my money where my mouth is and bought it. What will you do?

 

Maybe in US, but not in UK. I was thinking about XPS too, but for some reason XPS are not available with Blu-Ray, and still you can't really choose 1647 [i7 non-quad]. I really would not buy quad processor put into dell xps 16, as the xps case seems not to be designed to deal with all that heat.

 

LOL, I just read owners reviews on HERE. It is NOT THAT HUGE OF A DIFFERENCE. We will agree to disagree. But either way, it doesn't compare to the Sony F series terrible LCD. It is worlds better.

 

Seems to be working just fine after the BIOS update.

 

I paid $1350

I7-720
6gb 1333mhz ram
500gb 5400rpm hd
Blu-Ray ROM
16.4" Full HD 1920x1080P Screen
Nvidia 330M 1gb Video card
Win7 64bit Home Prem.
Backlite keyboard

I think that's a bangin' value. Any decent MacBook Pro will START at $1999 or so, and Don't see apple releasing the quad core, unless they have a whole new case design up their sleeve.

 

If I was a little more patient, I would have ordered from Newegg, and aavoided sales tax, and picked it up for $1350 as well (same specs). I wanted a brick-and-mortar store to return the laptop, in case I had buyers remorse or something broke in the first 2 weeks, so that's why I went with Best Buy, and paid the great state of Nevada $100 in sales tax.

 

I may be returning mine (Best Buy) Saturday. Not sure. My issue is this vertical viewing angle.

I can return my Sony, sell my 2008 MBP and pick up a new MBP when they ever get around to releasing them.

I feel compelled to keep it though. I mostly like the lil' fella.

I even bought an OEM copy on Win Home 7 Pro (I'm too baller for recovery discs, lol) but I have not activated it yet, precisely for this reason.

I took the original hard drive out when I got it (I did boot it to make sure it worked) and installed an SSD. I could just put the original hard drive back in and it's pretty much day 1 new.

 

Yikes! That really really sucks Even if they refunded you for the difference between 330 and 310 it's not going to make things better as you will not be happy with it. I think your options are pretty clear, return it and wait for a refresh (and hope that its available with the 330 or BETTER) or else, buy something else.

 

doesn't seem to me a fair compairsion to me, apart from the screen (eu one is supposed to be better than the wled, comparable to the rgb led, i don't really know about the us one)

but put an 820 and blu-ray burner on the dell and let's see what price You're getting

why dont' compare the same specs CPU ODD RAM and recheck prices? and still You're getting a bigger screen and (imho) a much nicer finish

 

Just to back this up, in the UK here are the spec comparisons for CTO on Dell vs. Sony


DELL XPS 16 £1,568
Core i7 720QM
Windows 7 Home Premium
1 Year Warranty
1080p RGB LED Screen
6144 MB 1333MHz RAM
500Gb 7,200 Rpm Hard Drive
DVD +/- RW Drive
9-Cell Battery
1GB ATI® Radeon™ HD 4670 graphics card
Dell Wireless 1397 Mini Card (802.11 b/g)
Wireless 370 Bluetooth Module


Vaio F11X CTO £1,209
Intel® Core(TM) i7 Processor
Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium
1 Year Warranty
1080p 100% Adobe RGB Screen
1GB Nvidia 330M Graphics Card
500 GB Serial ATA (7200 rpm)
6 GB 1333MHz DDR3-SDRAM
DVD disc drive
Intel Advanced-N 6200 Wireless
Bluetooth


If i wanted to up the budget a little, go for the F11 Z1E (ready-made model, at your door next day) from John Lewis with 2 Year Warranty

Vaio F11Z1E £1,399
Intel Core i7 720QM
2 Year Warranty
1080p 100% Adobe RGB Screen
500GB 5,400 RPM HD
1GB Nvidia 330M Graphics Card
8GB 1333Mhz DDR3
Blu-Ray Reader/Writer!
Intel Advanced-N 6200 Wireless
Bluetooth


The VAIO is definitely better value at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, the SXPS 16 looks like a fantastic machine, but UK users aren't getting the same deal. I was planning to purchase one when i visited the states next month, but I bit the bullet with the F11. So far, very very happy with it but i'm NOT a gamer - i do multi-task loads.

I hope to post a video-review tomorrow if I get a chance.


EDIT: Maybe when I get to the states ill take my F11 to best buy and line it up with an SXPS 16 to test screens

 

There is another way to change the settings. In the Nvidia controls uncheck a box that says something to the effect "settings are being controlled by another program" and then you can change everything with the Nvidia controls.

Won't help. I could and did make the screen bright enough that if the power went out I could have used it for a flashlight, but everything was more washed out.

That's the problem, the screen does not reproduce colors with any saturation. It is defective. I remember moving the screen and my head for a better angle too. Helped a little, but not with the washed out look. No solution for that except a new screen.

I read the links above and I noticed that someone commented that their Best Buy sold another Sony model (FW something) with a 1600 x 900 screen that looked great in comparison. Sony sells that screen with this laptop. I configued one at sonystyle.com the other evening with 4G's of Ram and everything else the same (screen comes with 512 MB Nvidia downgrade too) for just $1,074. That's a lot of Sony i7 laptop for the money right there.

Until Sony ditches this HD screen in north america for the EU RGB screen I would go with the 1600 x 900 screen and save some money.

Best Buy sells a 6GB ram F11 with this screen for $1249 but only online so you can't compare the screens. But I'm sure that screen is OK.

 

Please try my profile: Spyder2express

The 1080p screen can produce awesome colors. The 1080p's issue is vertical viewing angle.

 

Again, the 820 is not worth the extra cost over the 720, and you can get blu-ray burners cheap if needed. You can't get a good LCD LED screen for the Sony just to replace EVER or video card EVER. Finish? If you call dull plastic that flexes good, I don't think so.

 

Yes, Melody Master, wait for the refresh. You said, if I recall, that you had access to another computer and weren't forced to fish or cut bait at this moment.

Seriously, we have always seen that Sony Europe had first what North America gets second (why, is a mystery, of course).

So what we have seen so far is:

Yeah, they can have an "ordinary" FullHD screen BUT they also have the option of a Premium (really) Adobe RGB screen (possibly LED as notebookcheck claims in its review). A really good screen by ALL accounts.

Fewer complaints of the noise issues from Europe. In North America, a shield, etc. has to be installed in the first models to permanently fix that. (Yes, our fellow forum member, NHMike, just had his on-site visit stalled, but think of how many there are to install! Thus the multi-month window for the send-in. And, yeah, there is something to install besides software. Thanks, NHMike for the report. It's interesting because another forum member had the shield installed -- so it must be the shield isn't fool-proof for the problem.)

Some trade-offs (like the backlit keyboard) but the backlit keyboard has also met with some criticism, here, if I recall correctly.

What does history tell us? Sony adds at each refresh, generally starting with the GPU. And, in the case of the FW, it also even completely changed screens from the HiColor to the FullHD...on the first refresh (although there are some who prefer the former over the latter, like myself).

What was Sony thinking by giving the North American market the bottom drawer screen in the higher resolution? Beats me. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Probably got a great deal on the older technology from a supplier, and we know that somewhere a production line was messed up.

So, what should you do? Stick around for one month more is my bet. Remember, the FW had five versions in less than a year and a half. The new one is around the corner.

Remember: Sony is playing its marketing games as well, positioning itself against projected changes from other manufacturers. And it is also subject to the vagaries of defective parts from suppliers. But knowing Sony, they're gonna make it right --- IF you escalate your issue to a higher level of management and ask to be made happy again. So, surf around and email a VP or two at Sony Canada -- while waiting for the refresh! And then, POUNCE!

Good luck!

 

I've never seen one of the RGB Dell's. Best Buy does not stock it. I did see the 900P monitor that was the original base unit on the XPS 16 and that was the best laptop monitor in the store. If the RGB is eye-popping compared to that then Best Buy should stock one in every store and put it in a little booth behind black curtains and charge five bucks for five minutes.

 

@ count_schemula: could you use the same background image for your side by side? And use a tripod so the camera is in the same position? And manual exposure & white balance so the automatic settings does not mess up the comparison?

From this Test Son*y Vai*o VPC-F11Z1/E Notebook review (note: EU Premium Matte): (* added because of the automatic Coupon link parsing cr@p done by notebookreview breaking the links )



From their Macbook Pro 17 review:



-------

XPS vs. F

I don't care about XPS vs. F debate, I though this was a F Owner's Lounge? It would be more appropriate in a Which laptop thread. or a XPS one.

---------

Hibernation?

For the guy who returned an F because of a hibernation problem, Search this Thread or check: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5880527&posted=1#post5880527

Otherwise get a third laptop if you think it's hardware.

---------

DPI?

Check this DPI Calculator / PPI Calculator: 16.4 1080p: 134 vd 143 DPI for a 15.4".

DPI (Fineness) of Displays is a good read.

----------

Re: VAIO F SSD Clean Install & Lost WinDVD?

I don't believe that the WinDVD is not recoverable. Did you try my suggestion: put back inside your OEM drive & run a key finder utility? Or wait a few days till I get my hands on the F & I will PM you.

 

Again... that's exactly my point of wiew, and it's why I dont understand why You put it in the vaio for your price (unfair) compairsion

 

I've checked the Vaio Control and Windows Power Management options, and all seems fine in terms of settings. Not sure whether to take it back again or not...

 

Again: Search this Thread or check: http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5880527&posted=1#post5880527

Otherwise get a third laptop if you think it's a hardware problem.

Search the web with: "Windows 7" hibernation problem & you will find many notebook brands, all have in common Windows 7.

An other troubleshooting method is restore to factory state, don't use any external wireless devices & if it does not have the problem then it's something you added that cause the problem. Go to link above to solve.

 

You ask a lot of a myTouch3g camera.

The pictures are accurate enough in the sense that they are quite representative of what I'm actually seeing.

Dead on the Sony looks good. Move your head up or down at all, I mean 1-2 inches, and all dark areas in the image start going to that nasty weird Grey color. After several inches, the image is just not viewable.

It's not pure science, but the laptops were next to each other and the screen tilt is roughly the same.

I can't even get my MacBook Pro screen to look like that from an 80 degree angle. There is no need to run a science lab on this, there is NO comparison. You have to have you head looking dead into the screen or there are viewing issues.

Horizontal is not so bad. Vertical is pretty much fail.

In fact, this might have just made my decision easier.

 

Is it also semi glossy or matte?

 

I recovered all the setup files (a looot 80 or more) from the recovery discs, some for installing features (like the alps touchpad) or programs (corel and roxio) and the rest for backup.

It's quite easy you need sonyextractor http://www.mediafire.com/?xm2zjz2yn5t to unzip the .mod files in the dvds

The bad new is that you have to unzip them one by one to see what they are.

To speed it a little up I've searched in the dvds all the *.mod files and pasted them on the drive so that I had them all toghether and ordered them for size, then expect office to be the bigger one and so on it should be faster than browsing all the dvd directories.

Hope this solves Your problem crazy

 

17" 2008 matte LED

You can even ignore the MacBook Pro screen if you want.

The Sony pic illustrates the vertical viewing issue pretty well.

Sony:


Desktop image:

 

So you are comparing appl*e to orange?

Semi-glossy or glossy displays have better contrast & saturation but the trade-off is less forgiving viewing angle & glare compared to a quality matte LCD monitor.

The F, US 1080p is not matte, check the angle images I posted above for matte F EU 1080p vs. Macboo*k matte.

P.S. looking @ the Son*y logo on your photo, there is quite a lot of camera shake.

I thought about you a few days ago when seing this in the F User Manual : http://www.docs.sony.com/release/VPCF110_series.pdf



(* added because of the automatic Coupon link parsing cr@p done by notebookreview adding unwanted links )

 

No. We're done with any comparison. I had no intention or interest in anything other than illustrative purposes. Apple images removed.

This is worse than just "less forgiving," it's hard to do graphics or watch a movie on this thing. I can't move my head for 2 hours? No thanks.

 

Many thanks for the link, I'll investigate the Windows 7 potential problem, and then the external wireless devices before I replace for a third laptop..!

 

I agree that it would be so much better to be able to get in North America the EU 1080p Premium matte version but the US consumer likes shiny stuff. Go to any large store with many laptops on display & try to find a matte screen.

That was the only point that got me hesitating about the US F but after searching like crazy for days, it was impossible to find a laptop with all the features of the F @ a similar price point AND a matte screen.

If you find one, please PM me!

I'm waiting for my US F 1080p, if I can't stand the glare and want a little bit more viewing angle, that's what I'll get, even if you loose some sharpness, brightness & contrast. Also, I work w/ kids & they have a hard time not touching the screen.



I saw several recommendations in some forums about this photodon anti-glare film. @ $17, it's not a big risk.

 

That is a very nice image, where can I find the full-res vers?

 

or, the reality

 

PIG OUT!

Like cars?

 

With a girl like that in my bed, I would not hesitate to close the lid.