Official Sony VAIO F Series i5/i7 owners thread *Part 3*

not as bad as the Acer, but similar to those macs, just hope it doesn't get worse.

 

Did you miss my post Joe? http://forum.notebookreview.com/6200819-post3877.html

 

There is nothing wrong with the durability of the F's construction. The central frame is a solid sheet of metal. Any time where you have one flat piece mounted on another flat piece they will obviously have a different radius when you try to bend them together, thus the mount or connection between them will have to give way, or slide to some degree, causing the noise. The creaking is the motherboard mount against the frame, the two halves of the case, and any other radial differential. The F is a BIGGER laptop than most, therefore there is a larger radial differential from end to end when flexing the thing. To reduce the noise you'd have to have a thicker, heavier metal sheet that reduces the ability to flex, thus no longer allowing for a thin, light notebook.
The floorboards in my house squeak, it's the hardwood rubbing against the crossply flooring wood below as you step on it, because they flex to a different degree and have to slide across each other due the radial difference. that doesn't mean the house is going to fall down.

 

No, I remember that one.

My point was about who makes the sausage & why we pay so little for these machines.

 

Yah, mass production from the largest motherboard manufacturer is going to keep the costs down. I wouldn't be surprised if the exact same motherboard were used in another laptop, another brand's laptop, with maybe some of the currently blank soldering points being used for ports in different locations. It used to be that the whole laptop had to be designed around the motherboard's form factor, with its CD drive, Hard drive etc. wedged into corners of whatever room was left over after the motherboard had taken possession of the case, now the Motherboard is just a circuit board with CPU and GPU stuck in the corner of a case designed overall to be esthetically pleasing.

 

No, I'm talking about the employees' wages & living conditions in Foxconn's dorms towers. Try this image search: foxconn factory dorm.

 

Thank you. I thought that was the case but wasn't sure.

Regards
JJ

 

hi guys, ive been using my f11 for about a month now.
I recently bought a bluetooth mouse. when everything works, it works fine. but intermittently, the mouse simply would not function.

Using the laptops bluetooth software, it still shows that the mouse is connected. Looking at the mouse, the red light lights up.

But when I move the mouse or click a button, nothing happens. This is not a case of the mouse 'hibernating' because it would happen in the middle of scrolling or clicking.

What gives?

 

Does anyone know if the wireless card in the F11 supports the 5GHz wireless frequency? I can't seem to pick up the 5GHz signal from my Linksys E3000, and yes I'm sure it's active as my office laptop is able to detect both the 2.4 and 5 GHz signal.

 

Try this: Go to Device Manager and choose Bluetooth Radios. Under this Select the one that starts with FOXCON and right click on it. Then choose power management tab and make sure that the box that says "allow this the computer to turn off this device to save power" is unchecked. Also do the same thing under Mice and other Pointing devices..

 

The squeaking you hear when opening and closing the screen is usually caused by the lower bezel of the screen rubbing against the back of the machine. Erm, where the speaker grille is.

I bet you (thanks to the stupid numpad keyboard setup), that when you put the computer on your lap, you balance it on your right leg. In that case, it's SO easy to apply pressure to the center of the back of the bezel area, which will cause it to squeak when you adjust the screen lol.

 

Btw, Joe, you might enjoy this one:


I know you said it wasn't possible, but it was. XD

Oh that reminds me! *turns the adblock icon off* that thing's fugly XD

 

Plus:


Assuming you have the Broadcom card - it would have been useful if you had given us your model number - Make sure you've updated the Bluetooth firmware to 2.2.3.593.596 which is supposed to fix this exact issue. Sony eSupport - VPCF119GS - Software Updates & Drivers (You may have to go to the front page and enter your model before you can get the driver)

Also under Discovery settings make sure it will "Allow devices to find this computer.." (In Search box enter "Bluetooth" and go to "Change Bluteooth Settings")

And with all that it will still disconnect sometimes for no reason. Turn off and back on the wireless switch, it will reconnect.

Also, my Razer Bluetooth mouse will disconnect as above, but my Microsoft Bluetooth mouse never does.

 

I have to say, sorry... cant stand...

What a nasty display Melody.

You must have to much hamburguers in your hands or many kids around.

 

thanks for the driver i'll tell you if it works in my next post. Sorry for being rude last time i was just annoyed as nothing worked i had to system restore to get my screen back.

 

Well, talked to the Sony contracted tech, and Sony sent them a new motherboard to fix this. We'll see... that's a lot of trouble to go through for something that basically not even an issue...

 

The fact that Sony is willing to change that Foxconn motherboard for the merest excuse points up just how cheap this once-major part of a notebook has actually become.

It's pretty easy to remove too, I almost decided to take out the MB when I was cleaning out my system, but then decided "nah, it's not likely, but something may happen to affect the warranty." I could have put new, better paste on the GPU and CPU heatsink to improve thermal transfer.

 

What a waste of resources that we will all end up paying for. I hope nobody follows suit.

I used a pocket knife as weight to keep a key pressed permanently to slow down the fan & the free SIW 2010 to monitor min/max temperatures of the CPU & GPU. Well after 15 minutes of slowing down the fan with that quirk, the temperature rose an inconsequential 4c to 67c. and the max operating temp is 105c.

Yes, it's real cheap if you don't compute all the other costs like inventory, transportation, support related admin costs, tech salary & benefits, carbon footprint of the whole process, waste management, etc, etc.

 

Joe, it jumped from 4c to 67c?! That's insane! I know it's inconsequential as you claim, but it still shouldn't be occurring, especially when a high performance laptop such as this requires a good amount of airflow to keep cool since the components get so hot. While the max operating temperature is 105c, the higher the temperature, the more likely the life of the laptop is minimized. We don't need any VAIO's exploding.

 

Nuggstein...

It jumped 4C TO 67C...it started at 63C and went up 4C.

Bill

 

Forgive me if i'm retarded, but that's a good thing right?

btw i was at a sony style today and...why does the Z have a better screen or was it just because the F on display wasn't the Full HD premium? It seemed the Z had a brighter/more rich screen does the LED make that big of a difference?

 

I should just stop using the internet.

But still, Joe only tested it for 15 minutes. I'd like to see a 24 hour test.

 

YouTube - Split Second Demo on Sony_Vaio_F11

The game runs fine...ut the demo won't let you pick settings. Bah console ports.

 

Hey Mango, how does SC2 do with the resolution at max? like full hd?

 

I would like to see somebody pressing a key continuously for 24 hours in real life usage. But wait! What about somebody who has a heart attack & his face falls on the keyboard & his nose press said key & it takes 24 hours for the body to be discovered?

Check this with a benchmark + monitoring temperature I ran: VAIO_F Series Fan Whistling a Cool Tune vs New Macbook Pro 17" - up to 30c hotter than the F! That up to 104c for the_Macbook Pro 17".

 

Perfect CSI: Miami episode. They notice facial damage due to the heat exposure from the laptop, and they have to figure out the temperature of the laptop...and they yell out the model #.

Also I clicked your benchmark post, scrolled down and found Intel chipset drivers? What do those fix/improve?

 

I'm not saying that I approve of all these resources being used just to cure a customer's bad mood, I'm just pointing out that replacing the motherboard is so frequently cited as the cure for a problem. But then the motherboard IS the computer. In this case maybe Sony knows something - maybe they have a Service Bulletin saying that a full-on fan IS a problem with one or more motherboard revisions...

Just a very VERY deep dig into wild speculation. Disregard my comments.

 

Or maybe I've manhandled the computer to some degree while having just taken it completely apart and run a vacuum cleaner and brush all throughout..?

 

Try putting a brick on the keyboard. xD

 

Yep. How dare I make use of the warranty sold to me with the laptop. Obviously Sony views this as a defect, otherwise they would not have just thrown hardware at it (ok, there might be room for debate on that). I also view it as a defect. You are completely welcome to your own opinion, however, I don't see the logic in refusing to fix a defective product in the name of "lower prices in the future." Having Sony spend money to fix this issue may turn them around and make them spend more time and money on QA, resulting in better products in the future. Having them not spend money to fix it will just show them we're a bunch of deep pockets they can throw defective merchandise at.

I got the same results under load, with the temp jumping to 73c, up around 3c. GPU temp also jumped 4c. So, is this a deadly flaw? No. But, what happens when a key malfunctions on your keyboard in 2 years, and the fan won't spin up... ever... and the life of your laptop goes down the toilet because those extra few degrees do make a difference over time. Why do you think they let the fan spin up that fast? They're certainly aware that nobody likes it, so why would the sell a product that needlessly annoys its users?

Better get it fixed while you still have a warranty (that is, assuming Sony knows what they're about, and this new motherboard actually fixes the problem...).

 

Just to be clear: the temperature does not "jump", it goes up gradually a few degrees IF a key is continuously pressed.

There is a thermal cut off on the CPU chip & it will throttle down OR shut down if overheated. As illustrated by the benchmark post I linked to above, the new Macbooks, but also many other i7 laptops (XPS_for example), run MUCH HOTTER than the F-Series so there is absolutely no worries about a shorten life for a few degrees extra IF a key is continuously pressed.

"...what happens when a key malfunctions on your keyboard in 2 years, and the fan won't spin up... ever" - In that case the keyboard MUST be replaced or an external keyboard MUST be used. You cannot operate a laptop or do some text editing with a key continuously pressed or stuck "on". If you need to use the laptop anyway, you can use a key mapping utility to disable the defective key or disable the physical keyboard in Device Manager & use the On-Screen Keyboard included in Windows 7. I use it often when typing in other languages to see where the special characters are.

Warranty servicing is not free, there are some costs & somebody pays for it. Everything is relative & depends on the point of view of the observer. There is nothing wrong about taking advantage of the warranty IF it's warranted. In that case it's an absolute waste IMO.

 

Two dumb comments:

(1) maybe it just looks that way to me, but there seem to be a lot of weird people in this thread

(2) Why does the F-series thread draw an order of magnitude more posts in this forum than that of any other laptop?

 

100% agreed.

 

(1) Weird is relative, ask a tribe in the_Amazon.

(2) Not sure about that. Check the Dell_XPS and Studio_XPS forums & all the real issues owners have been posting about.

*****

 

I play games using the keyboard on the laptop, and they require holding down keys for long periods of time. My test lasted 3 minutes, and it only took 1 minute for the temps to reach their max. Also, I type fast, and I type a lot. This creates the same effect. The fan is constantly winding down, and speeding back up... even when the temp does not justify it. To me, that is unnecessary wear.

In all honesty, overall, I agree (although I stand by my belief that it is a defect and should be fixed). The laptop has no other problems, and it's a shame to risk introducing something by taking it totally apart just to fix something that's not life threatening. But it's a big enough deal for me to want it fixed.

 

EDIT: Reread your post. Does your fan really wind up/down? Mine doesn't while typing or gaming. It stops occasionally (once every few hours or so. Yes, I do game for that long ), but that's because the temps are cool enough to warrant it. The fan shouldn't be whirring up to full speed and then slowing down and going full blast again over and over again. You may want to have it checked out if this is the case.

I don't understand why this is such a big issue. 73C is NOT a big deal. Actually, anything above 100C or 105C isn't really a big deal imo. You really don't need to get worried unless it goes above 100C for extended periods of time. The GTX 295 operates at 80-100 degrees over load, and there have been almost 0 issues with the device failing because of heat. The same transistors and pcb is used in pretty much all CPU/GPU/Motherboards, so really there shouldn't be an issue. Your computer will shut down if it gets too hot. It's not like its made out of wood. Silicon is made to operate at high temps. And lets be perfectly honest here, 3-4C is barely anything. You could gain that much just by working in a warm room. As long as you're not over-volting, you should be golden. Now that doesn't mean you should go and tape over your exhaust, but a few degrees isn't going to make much difference.

BUT, since we like to think that this is a free world, you should make the choice of whether you want to have the motherboard replaced for the possibility of having the issue fixed. I wouldn't recommend it, but that's just one man's opinion.

Also, @ Melody. Yeah, I think the same thing every time I log on to the thread and see it advanced by 3 pages. It's like thread cancer.

Also,

It runs fine on some maps (scorching (something), and citadel, but does poorly on others - mostly maps with the wet shader like twilight fortress). You may want to dial some settings (shaders, shadows) back to medium for 1080p to keep the gameplay fluid (30fps+) at all times.

 

mangosango, did you read any of the posts prior to FluffedUp's? We've been talking about the fan issue for a while now. It happens to many of us.

 

Well, I ran the free Furmark stability test on my_F11 in conjunction with the free SIW 2010 to record the min/max temperatures. After the temperature stabilized @ 67c, I pressed continuously the left Shift key & let the test ran for a total of 10 minutes. When the key was first pressed, the fan slowed down and the temperature went up a few degrees as you can see on the screen capture below. But when the temperature reached 79c, the fan KICKED IN at a higher speed & lowered the temperature to 75c, then went back to idle speed & kicked back in higher speed @ 79c and so forth. So the fan speed modulation still works even if a key is continuously pressed. The max temp never went above 79c, way under the max 100c for the CPU & max 105c for the GPU (see links below).

Agreed: not a problem IF it's not for an extended period of time. I did not manage to get my F's CPU or GPU above 80c (176F) trying with all kinds of benchmark utilities.

FYI: i7-720QM Processor max temp: 100c (212F) in specs here and 105c for the GT 330 (could not find max temp in the specs for the GT 330M here but did not search for a data sheet).

*****

 

Well, perhaps it isn't actually a defect, but rather a feature. Perhaps Sony ran a study and found that people can't type accurately when they can't hear the key strokes, so they trounce on the fan speed when you type.

I'll just tell Sony to keep the board for someone else, and carry on.

 

Could you run the test above? Or better, run Furmark stability test & type a doc like your normally do to see how the temperature graph is affected in a real world situation? Warning: wear protective gear a la Hurt Locker!

 

Like you said, at 80c (cpu) the fan suddenly went full speed and brought the temp down. GPU temp never went above 75c.

I'm not going to back down, this is a defect. However, since I found out what they want to do to remedy the situation, I'm less and less inclined to have them service it. They were suppose to be out today, but it's been put off until next week. I was serious when I said I was going to call them and cancel it. Maybe that's why I posted, because I knew I'd get $%*# on here and that'd help talk me the rest of the way out of it.

This is the first laptop I've actually owned, and I'm a bit protective (I'm not made of money), especially since I've worked on so many laptops in my career. I've seen and fixed a lot of things, from a dead inverter for power to the screen, to re-soldering the power receptacle on the motherboard. I've also seen and not fixed a lot of things, because a board or screen or something else wasn't available or wasn't in someone's price range. Thinking of myself in that second situation upsets me.

So when Sony said, "Sure! We'll send out a tech and fix it" the first thing I thought was bios. Great! And don't let me fool you, I want it fixed. But a new motherboard is a waste. But I'm pig-headed and will argue that it's a defect and should be fixed, and that's just the way I am (that's the software engineer in me coming out.)

 

Right, my main point of confusion was whether it was a drastic change in the fan level (vacillating between nil and full blast) and it sounds like there is.

And I agree with Fluff - its probably a software issue

 

It's a weird quirk. I'm not worried as I don't type fast nor press continuously any key but just curious. Maybe has something to do with the ACPI tables. Seems like the thermal management (fan rev vs temp) goes by steps & the continuous key press affects step 2 & makes the fan run at idle (step 1) until it reaches temperature trigger 3 (79c) which makes the fan run fast but not @ max speed IMO until it reaches the lower temp where temp trigger 2 & fan speed 2 should kick in but instead bypass it to go directly to fan idle speed (trigger 1). Then the temp rises back to trigger 3 (79c) & the cycle repeats itself.

It's hard to explain in a foreign language but it's like you would remove the second step from a stairway.

 

Any news about F12? The GPU confirmed to be still GT330m ?

 

F11 vs. F12 Specs Comparison

 

Thanks, what about the price? Looks like F12 will have slightly better config with the same price.
I am still hoping they will put GT335m in it..... oh please.

 

Where & for what configuration exactly? Just be patient.

 

The price shouldn't go higher, it can either stay the same or go down a bit.

Also that comparison is in relation to Asia, if your in the US we dont know if they will offer the Matte screen or not, considering the glossy 1080p one is gone on the site still.

 

Doesn't seem like the F12 is the improvement everyone was hoping for. Honestly not much of a difference.

 

Well, on the up side, it does mean our F11's are not out dated all ready!