Official Sony VAIO F Series i5/i7 owners thread *Part 5*

Concerning my post about not seeing the CPU frequency maxed out when all cores are at 100% load:
Could you guys, please, run a quick test and post your results (CPU, frequency) ? Thank you!

Could this be something limited by the BIOS to further reduce the produced heat (to the detriment of performance) ?

 

Read this to get an understanding of how Turbo Boost works and what the clock speeds on the i7 processor mean:
How Intel Turbo Boost Works [Technology Explained]

It should explain why you're not getting your max clocks.

I really do think that you're splitting hairs on this though. You're using what last year was one of the fast mobile processors on the market. With my 720QM, I was able to convert 1,000 songs in .flac format to VBR 256Kbps in just about an hour, IIRC. All eight cores were maxed out AND I was still able to use other functions on my machine.

 

anseio, thank you for the link. I read multiple articles about how the Turbo Boost works, including Intel’s presentation/videos. I also read the Intel Core i7 Mobile Processor Technical documents, specifically the Intel Core i7-900 …, Core i7-800 and i7-700 Mobile Processor Series Specification Update which clearly states on page 17, the maximum turbo boost frequencies at full load for each CPU model. In my case, for i7-740QM, from Intel’s documentation:
Max Intel Turbo Boost Technology Frequency (GHz) (for active cores):
4 core: 1.86
3 core: 1.86
2 core: 2.53
1 core: 2.93

Contrary to what the site on the link you mentioned states: “Intel does not guarantee that a processor will ever hit its maximum Turbo Boost speed.” The above specification actually “guarantee” that if the Turbo Boost specific conditions are met (active cores, load, TDP, …) then the mentioned frequencies are reached.
This is why in my post I also noted:

So there are no apparent reasons (at least what I can see) why the Turbo Boost max frequency should not be reached in my test.

Also I would like to add to this, that on other notebooks these frequencies were reached (HP, Dell – i5, i7) !

For people who are not using processor extensive applications long time, than this probable doesn’t matter for them. But many people bought the quad core CPU because they want to use its power. Many people accepts the loud fan and produced heat because of that. For those people I think this matter. And also sheds a different light when comparing this notebook with other notebooks.

For example, this differences means ~1 hour saved on a 14 hour video project encode. For those people with i7-8X0 CPU where the TB frequency multiplier for 3/4 cores is 2x it means even more time saved. If you do these kind of work frequently, then this adds up quite well. Not to mention the case when you run something (simulation, game, …) and it works almost well, just that little power is missing to work great, but you don’t have it even if you paid for it. How does that makes you feel ?

So what I would like to know, if other people experiencing the same thing as I do. That’s why I would like to know their results. Maybe is just something that can be solved by a BIOS update.

 

If I had to guess, I would say that Intel refuses to guarantee max turbo speeds because it would depend on available power. Perhaps the motherboard does not quite supply exact voltage or perhaps Sony's power brick is delivering slightly less than optimal.

Overvolting (and undervolting) can change performance, so perhaps your machine is not perfectly optimized. I can tell you that with my 820QM, my max turbo for a single core is supposed to be 3.06, but I have never seen it. I commonly reach 3.052 to 3.057, but I have never seen 3.06. With all 4 cores, I have seen 1.998, which is very close to the specified 2.0 for my processor.

The F series, or at least my F11, is very fast. During my first 4-5 weeks of ownership (May 2010) my F11 was rated #2 for all Core i7 820QM processors mated to a GT 330M GPU in a mobile setting. Considering that there were over 230 other machines with this configuration and further considering that something like 85% of the machines tested cost more than my F11, I really can't complain. What impresses me even more is that after 9 months of use, this machine still benches at the same scores. It has not slowed down! Most of this is due to my keeping my machine clean of useless software and running processes, but this machine still tests out near the top of the current list.

With that said, Sandy Bridge looks as if it will be a huge upgrade!

One last thought...how are you checking your clock speeds? When you check them, are you allowing the stock computer to manage the processor, or have you manually turned of C1E and EIST states?

 

Hi Everyone,

Getting ready to order my F series, but trying to figure out if there is a major difference between these two processors:

Intel® Core™ Quad i5-460M processor (2.53GHz)
Intel® Core™ Quad i7-740QM processor (1.73GHz)

My parents live in Canada, so I was going to order it and ship to them, but want to know if it is worth upgrading to the i7? I am an average game player, but am actively working on my degree for Web Design, so I often use Dreamweaver, Adobe Flash, Photoshop, In Design, ect. Any advice would be great. Thanks!

 

To my undestanding, there's quite a difference between the two. The i5 is a duo core, while the i7 is quad (for starters). From what I've read from another member, games will bet a better benefit from the i5 with its higher clock speeds per core, until games become more multithreaded. Your web design work with Adobe and what not will most likely benefit from the i7.

Also, the i5 runs cooler than the i7 and you won't be complaining about excessive fan speeds/noise.

My $.02

 

Take the notebook with i7 and 8 GB of RAM. I work with CS5 and with only an i7-720QM it allows me to open the whole suite of Adobe, 5 different browsers for testing, to check my mail and any other application I want to use in the same time without any difficulty.
I'm not a gamer, but I think that maybe now an i5 is better for games, but in the future more games will be made for quad cores.

 

does anyone know what my F series i7 740 is suppose to idle at? atm it's idling at 75 degrees C and the fan blows like crazy. any suggestions?

 

i have this problem too
when i do normal thing like browsing web or anything like this temperature is near 65-68 Celsius,fan have bad noise , and blow high
when i play game like need for speed it go high near 90-94 Celsius
and sometimes laptop shut down himself

Laptop model is F115FM

cpu i7 720

what is the problem?
Fan?
or
CPU?

 

Maybe BIOS?
Did you updated BIOS?? Did this temp was from the beginning? Did you do windows clean install?

 

hey guys! I have an F series vaio with i7 q820, RAM 8 GB, GeForce 330m and windows 7 x64.
whenever I try to render something in sketchup or 3ds studio max or AutoCAD or any program, my system is slowing so down that the mouse is barely moving.
why do I have this problem ?

thanks guys!

 

When did it started? How big rendering are U trying to do? How many processors (not processes but you can write them too) are shown in Task manager? How much CPU is loaded (in percents). Have you ever done defragmentation?

 

@James D:

it's a very low in details rendering, with 4 trees and one bicycle stand... the CPU Usage shows 100%, 107 processes running, and physical memory 41%

I'm using photoshop cs5, autocad, google sketchup, archicad, 3ds max, all these design programmes...

i have the 1680x1080 display if it matters

i never tried defragmentation i only have it from august last year

 

My VAIO is the i7 740 model with the 310m and the lower end display.

First Question:
I was looking at a previous post that said that this RAM:

Newegg.ca - G.SKILL 8GB (2 x 4GB) 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Laptop Memory Model F3-10666CL9D-8GBSQ

will fit my laptop perfectly for an upgrade. I currently have 4gb - would I be better off with the 8gb upgrade at that price?

Average use:
- Photoshop CS5
- Illustrator CS5
- MKV / AVI Playback
- Moderate Video Editing
- Music, Web, etc

Second Question:
Also along the lines of upgrading - I would love to have more than 500gb for my internal hard drive - my old laptop had two 500gb drives.
Is there a worthwhile upgrade that's not terribly expensive? I assume there's only one drive bay in the F13, so I would have to find a 750 or 1TB laptop drive? Is that even possible (1TB) at this point?

What's the best method of upgrading my Hard Drive capacity?
I have this SeaGate drive: http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=04d26c9cf9c2d110VgnVCM100000f5ee0a0aRCRD

 

I think that RAM will work. If not, I've noticed that G-Skill closely follows feedback/reviews on newegg.com and is quick to remedy dissatisfaction or wrong item ordered.

Yes, the F13 will only have 1 HDD bay (my assumption) that is limited to a 9.5mm thick drive. Seagate has a 750GB, but Hitachi is coming out with a 7K750 very very soon. I'm looking forward to that one, cuz I LOVE my Hitachi and I really dislike my OEM Seagate. With that said, you can also swap out your optical drive for a 2nd HDD using a caddy. This space will allow for 12.7mm HDD's (I think, but I have not confirmed), which would fit a 1TB drive, if you don't mind the decrease in speed.

Actually, that's been the question of mine... do I swap out my Hitachi 7K500 for the 7K750 when it comes out, or do I go for a 1TB 5400RPM instead? I like the storage space, but feel loyal to Hitachi for their good products.

 

Upgrade to 8 GB of RAM will improve your performance a lot.
Read this: http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/pdfs/cs5_ps64bit_benchmarking.pdf?PID=3350462

 

Thank you Willscary for your reply!
In the test I posted I used multiple frequency monitors: CPU-Z, Core Temp, Open Hardware Monitor, the Intel Turbo Boost Technology Monitor. But in further testing I used mainly the dedicated i7-Turbo (v6.95).

In the BIOS I have no control over these settings. I have only the “CPU C3/C6 State Support” which is enabled. In my tests I didn’t change the Enhanced Halt State nor the SpeedStep technology state. Both are enabled by default in i7-Turbo. Anyway, my tests were exclusively focused to exercise full load on all cores and the C1E state and EIST are not used in this case.

In the meantime I continued my research and did more tests today. Based on these I can tell that the Turbo Boost cannot be limited from the BIOS (or at least not directly), and that you guessed right, the lack of Turbo Boost what I’m experiencing, it is due to the motherboard (it’s supplied voltage or current or both). What I’m experiencing is the Turbo Boost Throttling! I excluded the power brick because it is a 120W one.

Based on the Intel Turbo Boost Technology White Paper, Pg 5:
QUOTE:
1.2 Dependencies / Algorithm
Intel Turbo Boost technology core frequency upside availability is ultimately constrained by power delivery limits, but within those constraints, it is limited by the following factors:
- The estimated current consumption of the processor
- The estimated power consumption of the processor
- The temperature of the processor
&QUOTE

The reason why I didn’t observe this in my tests before, is due to the fact that on full load TB Throttling is happening all the time, and the available multiplier is 1x in case of my CPU. So there was no variation to observe. I7-Turbo showed as max the same as the current multiplier. By exercising lower load but on all cores the Turbo Boost kicked in and I obtained the expected 1.86 GHz. TB Throttling start around 70-75% global CPU usage for all core load. Unfortunately the situation is same for 2 core and 1 core Turbo Boost. On this F13 notebook on high load the Turbo Boost is Throttling! ( -1x .. -3x from the expected max ). During all tests I did, the temperature is kept well under control (under 80 degree Celsius), so it is not caused by the temperature.

Do you guys know any application which would allow overvolting / undervolting on the F13? Or at least to monitor the real voltage values ? Thank you!

 

Excellent! In i7 Turbo there are two boxes checked...C1E and EIST. Uncheck them.

This needs to be done each time you restart your computer.




I hope this helps!

EDIT: Throttling??? Are you on battery power? Core i7 processors all throttle on battery power.

 

Could I ask what your guys speeds are when on battery and when the laptop is charging, I know the battery does throttle the speeds.

 

I am sorry, but I can't give you an answer. I use mine as a desktop replacement. It is always plugged in!

 

Hi all, I have the F-series with Geforce 310M and 1600x900 screen. I'm looking to get an external HD monitor (probably Dell UltraSharp U2211H). Will my laptop be able to support an external monitor at 1920x1080?

Thanks

 

Much info but still not all I need)

1. You noticed this at the first time you started rendering on this computer?
2. How many graphics of CPU are shown in task manager? It must be 8. I want to know if all cores are working or not. If there are only 6, 4 or 2 it means your system works with 3,2 or 1 active core. If it is the trouble then it can be easily resolved. Otherwise it is incompatibility of soft (drivers, programs, or windows problems made by viruses) or it is hardware problem.

 

Install this gadget:
OrbLog Blog Archive Intel Core Series – Sidebar Gadget

It will show you all 8 threads. I'm going to say that if your CPU is showing 100% then that means that all 8 are in use. Were your CPU only using 1 core (2 threads), usage wouldn't go much over 25%, when including other processes.

How much RAM is the rendering using? I know nothing about this, but there was another user who's now super busy with school, but he was looking for as much RAM as he could get for his rendering. You may be interested a RAM disk type solution. You can add a SSD via your Express 34 slot and have that be allocated for additional RAM.

 

After having this laptop for a while, I truly think its a great machine on the market, but with new laptops coming out now and in few years using sandybridge, will those laptops be the best simply because of the speed of the processor, nonetheless with a few flaws the F series to me will be great still for a number of years.

 

What flaws? Im hearing people are getting up to 6hrs of battery life with sandy bridge just on a 6 cell battery. More efficient, less heat, better battery, faster processor, better screen. Its definitely better. Makes me wish i waited for it for sure.

 

i mean flaws with current f series. What 6 hours!, are you sure. Red you have just put me of the laptop. All that money I paid. I still think its great, but sandybridge laptops seem the best.

 

Are you sure you don't know Omaroo?

 

No I do not know omaroo. I am just suprised in how much more improved sandybridge laptops are, and not sure what to think of the F12 anymore. That is why I am asking what peoples views are on the new model that has come out. For the last time I do not know that person.

 

We will let the omaroo thing go then

Could not wait for Sandy Bridge and I am happy with my F12. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. Not sure I will get 50% back on "trade in" on e-bay so this laptop will have to last me a few years (or till my next BIG PAY DAY)...

 

I believe this laptop will also last me along time. Only thing that I am really interested is the battery life and the processor of the new model, the screen cant be that different to other models of the F series can it.

 

well here's a screenshot of my task manager during rendering

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

it started doing this since i first started rendering with it, about 4 months ago

i'm really considering installing windows xp.

the problem is that i bought it from the united stated, but i live in europe now so i can't take it for a warranty or something...

help meee ((

 

I’m not on battery power. Actually I use my notebook plugged in most of the time.

I played with the C1E and EIST in i7 Turbo after I read your previous post, but as I already mentioned, when all cores are under load, un-checking C1E or EIST or both makes no difference (as expected).
Willscary, could you explain what I should see in case of normal load, if I uncheck C1E or EIST ? Thank you!

Yes, throttling. The Turbo Boost cannot reach the expected multiplier based on the load, because some of the Turbo Boost conditions are not met (temperature is ok, this indicates power and/or current consumption limits).

 

Oh my God, I am getting some annoying high pitched noise, and it is not stopping, I am losing my hair because of it. For the love of god, what on earth is wrong with the laptop.

 

Doing so many test, I tested the first one too. So when on battery, fully charged (CPU: i7-740QM):
Idle multiplier_____ : 7 => 931 MHz
Mild load multiplier : 7 ( i7 Turbo shows as min 7.000 and as max 7.951 )
Full load multiplier : 7 ( i7 Turbo shows as min 7.000 and as max 7.040 )

I didn’t tested the case when plugged in and the battery is charging. But I have the feeling that in my case will throttle even more .

@dan smith: Any news from Sony about your display ?

 

Both C1E state and EIST are meant to lower temps and save energy. They both DO this on my machine...temps are lowered by 5 to 7 degrees F, my fan is slightly slower and I would guess that this translates into less energy usage.

I had never heard of either of these until I bought this computer. When I found out about them, I read many articles about each of them. What I found is that while C1E saves power, it can cause a lag in processor response. This lag time is quite small, but I have been able to see a difference when benchmarking.

EIST dynamically changes clock speeds and processor voltages to reduce power consumption based on need. While claimed to be "instantanious", there are many claims, and even statements by Intel, stating that this can cause stutter in the beginning of certain actions, such as video playback.

I can tell you that when I benchmarked (I have felt no need to benchmark for quite a while now), I found that turning both of these off in i7 Turbo produced much higher benchmarks. Overall core speeds looked the same during the bench tests, but the max speed always showed 3057.6Mhz (or close to it) instead of lower speeds. In real life, I seldomly use over half of my processing power, but when doing photoshop work, I have found that everything SEEMS quicker with both of these items switched off.

I can't tell you what you will see. I can tell you that my benchmarks were 10% or so faster with them off and certain values always tested better with them off, but I can't say that I noticed it in every day life.

I can say that because of the benchmarking, I have i7 Turbo pinned to my taskbar and I turn these off every time I restart my F11 on AC power.

I hope this helps!

 

zperf, speed is more throttled when on battery not sure by how much. I still have not got a reply from Sony tech team. On another note this whistling sound or whatever it is, is driving me crazy. Why does it not stop. I really am disliking this laptop now.

 

First I want to thank to Willscary and James D for their ideas and help!

More 100% CPU load test results about the Turbo Boost throttling I experience on the F13 (CPU: i7-740QM) :

Tests were done by disabling OS virtual CPUs (includes HT) and running the entire OS on limited number of CPUs, based on James D’s idea (it is a boot parameter of Win7).

The result lines are composed as follows:
“Number of active CPUs from 8” : “Max multiplier READ” (“Max multiplier computed and caught by i7 Turbo in its Max value”) / “Max expected multiplier” => “Difference EXPECTED - READ" ( “Difference EXPECTED - i7 Turbo Max” )

1 : 22.0x ( 21.875x ) / 22x => -0.0x ( -0.125x )
2 : 20.0x ( 20.526x ) / 22x => -2.0x ( -1.474x )
4 : 16.5x ( 16.824x ) / 19x => -2.5x ( -2.176x )
6 : 14.0x ( 14.000x ) / 14x => -0.0x ( -0.000x )
8 : 13.0x ( 13.002x ) / 14x => -1.0x ( -0.998x )

The above results are reached in ideal situation (the rest of the cores are inactive/off during the entire time). This values cannot be achieved when running on 8 CPUs (all 4 cores), because there are enough processes/threads that the OS will end up scheduling something on the other cores. In that case the situation is worse, because the other cores are not entering the inactive state and also they are contributing to the average consumption and heat. Taking this in consideration and that my CPU Turbo Boost max multipliers are 9x/6x/1x/1x, results that there is not much room left for a real Turbo Boost. In real world load the Turbo Boost multipliers achieved when all 8 CPUs are enabled are 6.5x/3x/0x/0x while the temperature is kept around 70 degree Celsius. If temperature is increasing then Turbo Boost is reduced even further.

UPDATE: On James D’s request, I tested with 6 CPUs ( 3cores with HyperThreading on ), and I updated the table from above.

 

Thanks Willscary! It makes sense.
To still have a slower (more quiet) fan, you could still enable the EIST and tune the Windows Power Plan’s “Minimum Processor State” to keep it high enough for your expectation (no stutter …).

I gave you a +rep !

 

Well its going to be 100% NTSC RGB and have 240hz. Chances are it will blow away the screen on the current F series.

Thats life, you cant always have the best and things are always improving so quickly with electronics.

 

Thanks ZPerf!

I run mine wide open at all times! C1E and EIST off and plugged in power plan a high performance and maxed out. My desktop is windows classic and set to "best performance". I run an SSD with no indexing, prefetch or superfetch. I have no paging file (8 GB of RAM is much faster!) and this baby flies!

I am sure there are faster machines, but for what I paid, I am VERY impressed with my F11.

Actually, I set all of our church computers up the same way and they have all become much quicker also.

By the way, a clean install of windows 7 pro 64 bit with abolute minimal software goes a long way in speeding up a machine.

thanks again!

 

Bad that I can't send you private message but fine, will try to give an answer here.
I also live in Europe but got F12 from USA so we are in the same plate)
Don't even think to try install XP on it. I doubt you ever finish this with happy end. You better take an OEM disk Windows 7 Home premium and install it. Use Key on the bottom of your machine to activate it. If you need help to change language on English Windows Home premium just ask. Or if you have Windows 7 Ultimate or Professional install one of these. I believe that it is because of some bad soft compatibility.
Did I help U?

 

dan smith, speed cannot be lowered more than this. On my CPU this is the lowest multiplier (7x). This is the i7-740QM’s LFM (Lowest Frequency Mode). You can use AIDA64 Extreme Edition to check your CPU Min/Max Multiplier ( It is under Motherboard/CPU -> “Min/Max CPU Multiplier” ). Or HWiNFO32’s System Summary ( CPU LFM ). Or the CPU’s datasheet.

From what I read, the BIOS LIMITS this, and force for all ACPI Px state the same multiplier when on battery. It is not a real throttling, because it not depends dynamically on something, it is fixed/limited by design. And it is like this on all i7 notebooks I read about.

Regarding the whistling sound I can’t help you, because I don’t have it. Sorry!

 

Thanks anyway zperf, I always get that high pitch noise when I shut down the laptop. Red, it seems obvious that the screen on new model will be the best in the market. By any chance does anyone know what the price would be of the new model.

 

ok my friend, i'll try installing ultimate edition. a friend of mine told me that if i install xp on the x86, then it will read just 3 out of my 8 GB or RAM and of course i don't want that ) i'll reinstall the windows, hope it will work

and it' not a problem with the language, i'm fully assured in comprehending the english vocabular

and one more thing: why the hell is it using all 8 cores just idling with winamp and firefox opened :|
http://img257.imageshack.us/i/99940531.jpg/
aaarghhhhhh!! very agravated ((

 

I think your friend is mistaken. I've installed XP on my machine and it read all 4GB of my RAM.

Judging by the fact that you had 100 processes running when you took that image, I'd say your CPU is doing more than just Firefox and Winamp. I've done a clean install, added in a ton of programs, am currently using IE and Winamp right now. I've got 84 processes and all 8 threads are in use, but not as highly as yours.

If you're thinking about a clean install, that's a good idea.

 

His friend is correct. A 32bit opperating system (such as XP (x86)) can normally only see a maximum of 4GB of address space. Out of that 4GB, the system needs address space for the various bits of hardware. So, if you have a 512MB GFX card, that will reduce the available memory to the user to 3.5GB! That along with all the other system memory requirements, does tipically leave about 3GB available for your use.

 

XP x86 = 512MB Video RAM + 3.3 GB RAM
XP x64 = Whatever you want
XP + Sony VAIO F = No Answer

Before I reinstalled Windows it took much more RAM and CPU than after a clean install with all soft

 

what if i use the windows 7 ultimate image from my hard drive to upgrade from my windows 7 home premium ?

will that count as a clean install ?

 

So....

Why are we digressing not only one, but two operating systems into the past, AND switching back to 32 bit?

Windows 7 Pro and Ultimate both have an XP mode if, for some reason, you still have programs that only work in XP. Ultimate gives the added bonus of being operational in 35 additional languages. Perhaps some of you may find that as a useful feature.

I can't imagine ever going back to a 32 bit OS and I will never go backwards from Windows 7.

A clean install is the way to go. It has been more than 9 months since my clean install. Prior to the install, my F11 had something like 95 processess running at startup and quickly rose to over 100. After the clean install, I had around 46 running processes at startup and right around 50 while running. Now, those numbers have risen by 8 processes due to a few new programs that I have installed over these 9 months.

My startup and shutdown times are faster and my overall system performance is MUCH faster than it was when I first powered up the F11. This is not just the case on my machine. The other computers in our home also gained from clean installs as did the 19 church office computers that I manage. These church computers are older...some are nearly 9 years old. They were nearly worthless as XP machines, but with a clean W7 64 bit install and a total reformat of the hard drive during the process (including the deletion of all partitions so that only a single partition exists), these machines became useful again. Of course, all of the older machines had to be capable of 64 bit operation.

I would suggest that you move up in OS, not backwards.

Just my opinion.

 

Has anyone solved the fan noise problems of the VAIO F? All samples I have seen in person are very noisy, even in idle, is there a fix?