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    Official Sony VAIO F Series i5/i7 owners thread *part 4*

    Discussion in 'VAIO / Sony Owners' Lounge Forum' started by Willscary, Aug 20, 2010.

  1. mangosango

    mangosango Notebook Evangelist

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    I've popped off the keys - they are indeed translucent for the US backlit keyboard. My old Z1 has letters that are "glued" on. My guess is that they keys themselves are translucent and that they are painted black (save for the outline of the letters) (the backside of they keys have a clear-ish opaque tint).
     
  2. meefer

    meefer Notebook Enthusiast

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    OK Magic Mouse bought and tested with the drivers linked in my last post (redmondpie blog). Mouse works fantastically for what it can do. So far left click, right click, and scrolling in all directions is possible. Will need to check further for gesture support with two fingers for macros and the like.

    The best part is it responds every time within 1 second or less, even from sleep mode. Now to contemplate sending it off to colorware for a paintjob......
     
  3. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    That makes sense. Passing a fingernail on an arrow: it's a depression, not a bump like for a painted symbol.

    So the blue functions on the F keys would be painted with translucent blue paint or a blue filter under it or 2 colors translucent key with the outline painted black? Photo with a silicone skin:

    [​IMG]
     
  4. JefDeLathouwer

    JefDeLathouwer Notebook Consultant

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    No, I didn't tried that and I won't try it. I tried it with somebody else his keyboard and I broke one so I don't have a lot of confidence. But it is clear that they are glued on. The edges of the stickers are clearly visible when you take a close look. Off course se're talking ebout a non backlit keyboard.

    On the Belgian and also on the Dutch site is stated that there isn't a sata-port. There are only 2 USB 3.0 and 1 USB 2.0. How is it stated on the other sites?
     
  5. gr-fan

    gr-fan Notebook Geek

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    That's nice - where can one buy such a silicon skin specifically for the F layout?
     
  6. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    Nice illustrations here in case you need to remove a key for cleaning: How to Pop a Key Back Onto a Dell_Laptop Keyboard. It's the same technique on the_Vaio and includes a video link. An other key replacement guide with photos here.

    "...[F13] is stated that there isn't a sata-port. There are only 2 USB 3.0 and 1 USB 2.0" - That's a mistake, I saw on Sony_Asia that it was eSATA/USB combo port like on the F12_and_F11.
     
  7. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    Includes photos: VAIO_F Series US Keyboard Skin Report. Feel free to gimme some rep. [​IMG] ;)

    BTW I let some kids play on my F which has the US layout & thought of painting the Spanish symbols for them on the skin for when I swap the keyboard language layout & OS language for them.
     
  8. cirrusbarbs

    cirrusbarbs Notebook Guru

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    Joe ok im draining the battery now using the calibrate profile you created and battery eater is doing its test.

    Once that's done ill do the battery residue portion you spoke of and leave the notebook off and charge to full power 100% over night. Then ill take a screen shot of my results. I noticed on your picture you did another discharge and recharge to make sure your numbers were accurate after having the notebook full charged and shutoff and unplug overnight for 8 hours? Did I read that part correct?

    Just making sure im doing this correct
     
  9. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    Yes.

    I forgot to mention: when checking the overnight battery drain, the simple fact of booting on battery would drain it obviously. That's why I plugged it, booted & promptly ran Battery Eater & then unplugged the F to eliminate the booting process battery power consumption.
     
  10. Willscary

    Willscary Notebook Evangelist

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    I had thought perhaps painted, but I then thought about the dual color function keys...they would need to be manufactured using a process for both white and blue translucent material. It was at that point that I thought perhaps they were perhaps some sort of insert or dye. If paint, I hope it never scratches off...that would be a mess!
     
  11. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    For fun (geek fun that is) I just removed the F12 key on my old F keyboard.

    1. Pop out from the top by inserting nail or whatever.
    2. Remove by sliding the key towards the LCD. Note the shape of the notches.
    3. To re-install: insert the bottom notches of the key under the corresponding notches on the keyboard then snap in the top notches.

    [​IMG]

    The photo #3 confirms that for the US backlit keyboard, the translucent key is painted black as Mangosango wrote above.

    Time waster: virtual keyboard (piano, organ, etc, no install needed) | Vaio_F Series - How To Replace the Keyboard & Clean the Fan. $35 including shipping for an OEM Vaio_F US backlit keyboard is not that bad at all. | VAIO_F Series US Keyboard Silicone Skin Report | F Squeaky Spacebar Fix (with videos) That is if you simply do not want a few days for the space bar to break in as the squeak may go away by itself in a couple of days.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. OoTLink

    OoTLink Notebook Evangelist

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    Way to go Joe! That's funny XD .. but no surprise. The buttons in my car are the same lol.
     
  13. Virtualiser

    Virtualiser Newbie

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    Hi anseio,

    Thank you for having a look. This means that it should be possible to assign 1-4 cores, i.e. 1-8 threads to a running virtual machine on top of the host. Great!
     
  14. anseio

    anseio All ways are my ways.

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    Good luck!
     
  15. cirrusbarbs

    cirrusbarbs Notebook Guru

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    Joe here are my results. Whats does this mean?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  16. cirrusbarbs

    cirrusbarbs Notebook Guru

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    double post to message above. Sorry
     
  17. cirrusbarbs

    cirrusbarbs Notebook Guru

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    Joe this is also the other issue im having. Maybe it is a setting with the vaio. But whenever I plug in an external HDD, or put in a movie on the dvd player I never get the auto play pop-up like I usually do with any other PC. The auto play functions on the viao are set correctly. Is this a known issue? If not any advice?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Fishon

    Fishon I Will Close You

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    Maybe this.

    Windows 7 AutoPlay Enable Disable | NoDriveTypeAutoRun Registry Key
     
  19. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    It means as explained above that:

    1. You calibrated this battery. Now your F knows what is 100% charge & what is 0 for that battery.
    2. You created reference data so now you can compare this large capacity battery to your regular one. You can also check overnight battery discharge for this battery as explained above.
    3. Because you have a nice curve, it means that you have a healthy battery with no sudden jerking in the discharge rate.

    Because you did not set the Benchmark Options to 1920x1080 full screen like me then you cannot compare to my results.

    Unless you want to redo the test which is not necessary, keep the exact same benchmark parameters if you want to run the comparative tests described above.

    The important data is Work Done & running Time result, all the rest being equal.

    Besides being a tool to drain quickly the battery to calibrate it, from the free Battery Eater download page:

    Several notebook review sites use Battery Eater. Read this to see their criteria for example:

    notebookcheck.net > Our test criteria > Battery Life

    tomshardware.com > Battery Life: BatteryEater Pro v2.70

    Everything is relative & Battery Eater is a tool to help you compare apples to apples. ;) I will use it to test my third party $70 large capacity battery ordered from Fleabay when I'll get it in 1-2 weeks, custom willing.

    *****

    Auto Play Settings
    Yes, it's a "known issue" of users with the wrong settings. :)

    Plug your external device (music player, ext HDD, whatever), insert a DVD or CD & then go to: Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\AutoPlay and choose something else than Ask me every time. Disconnect/reconnect the device & try changing to Ask me every time. You can also use Explorer & right-click the device to Open AutoPlay.

    If the problem is global, meaning the menu never appears for any device then you could try: > deselect Use AutoPlay for All Media > hit the Save button > reboot for good measure & do it again, this time selecting Use AutoPlay for All Media.

    Personally, I hate auto play & disable it for most things.

    *****

    BTW, you don't have to address general questions specifically to me, there are lots of helpful & knowledgeable in this thread. ;)

    *****
     
  20. Fishon

    Fishon I Will Close You

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  21. anseio

    anseio All ways are my ways.

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    I, too, hate autoplay.
     
  22. Fishon

    Fishon I Will Close You

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  23. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    "On Monday, we asked Lifehacker readers...But if our poll is any indication.." - That voids the entire article for me. It measures only the type of people who participate in polls & only some of Lifehacker readers. And let's see their poll again after FF 4 is officially out.

    I studied sociology in University and one of my courses was about data manipulation. In one exam with the exact same set of data we had to "prove" that the state's grant system was bad from the student's associations point of view & we had to also prove that it was great from the Ministry of Education's point of view. :)

    Stats that shows how much numbers on browser usage is relative: Usage share of web browsers.

    Besides the majority does not always do what is best. Case in point: W.

    I guess I'll paste what I posted here previously): Above & beyond feature y or z, one must not forget the agenda of who makes those browsers. IE was at standstill, not caring about W3C efforts to make the web universal & it's main mission was to maintain MS's dominant position, push MS's search & products. The same with Chrome, it's a Trojan horse to collect info & push Google's privacy invading products with the aim of being present in ALL aspects of your digital life. Firefox is non-profit & a collective effort & is not selling anything or collecting info on you.

    As the article points out timidly: "...For some, eschewing Chrome for Firefox is simply a matter of not putting too many eggs in one basket".

    If one does not care about the core mission and just want to compare features, good luck: IE9 Preview 2 vs. Firefox 4.0 Alpha vs. Chrome 5 Beta – Hardware Acceleration, written by M$: Firefox 4.0 Beta 3 vs Chrome 6.0 vs Internet Explorer 9 and written for Firefox 4: features with big chart full of check marks. ;)

    BTW a new Firefox 4 Beta is out, you can always download the most recent version here. I am currently using the FF4 pre-release 64-bit called Minefield with an interesting bomb icon for shortcut. Downloadable here. Or the latest official FF 4 Beta in 39 languages with Win 7, Mac or Linux versions. Edit: I went back to FF 4 Beta 6 (the Official Beta), it's much more stable than Minefield on my F.
    [​IMG]

    From the Minefield Start Page:
    *****
     
  24. Fishon

    Fishon I Will Close You

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    I've stated before I'm a FF user. But I will also play with both Chrome and IE9, especially when I am not doing my usual work and am doing more casual browsing. I am also concerned about big companies just steamrolling over peoples privacy and have stated in the past how much Google knows about me- Google Dashboard. I care, but at some point I also say 'so what' as well. They are trying to market me. What other nefarious deeds are they up to? Unless the US government wants my browsing records. Bad News For Americans: U.S Government Tops In Google User Data Request – 4,287 in Six Months! | DailyMarkets.com Browser companies are suppose to keep the records for a limited period of time. Companies use cookies and are now using flash cookies to recreate HTTP cookies. http://www.pcworld.com/article/2060...owser_cookie_that_wont_go_away.html?tk=hp_new I clear my flash cookies and never allow third party cookies. One can use proxies and private browsing too.
    40,000 from a reputable website is a pretty good poll to me- granted from ones who respond to polls. Bottom line to me it's a very exciting time for browsers and the three majors are improving greatly.
     
  25. Fishon

    Fishon I Will Close You

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  26. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    Fishon, I always read your posts & knew your position on the subject. It was just my contribution to prevent a lemming stampede. ;)

    Yes, Flash Cookies are really evil. Some can even restore the normal cookies you just deleted! :mad2:

    In my case, I don't care about new feature x or y in IE or Chrome because what ever they add it's always to serve their core missions which is to suck you in so they can sell you (stats about your surfing habits or worse) or sell to you some more stuff so they can make more money with little regards for your privacy. Vs What is Mozilla?

    The bottom line is: do they care about you or their bottom line IMO. ;)

    *****

    BTW thanks for the rep! :cool:

    ****
     
  27. valsf11

    valsf11 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Here how my rubber arm rest looks after 4 months of daily use. Simply unacceptable. I tried to glue it a couple of times with no luck. It seems that there is a flex underneath it that doesn't let it stick.
    There has been a week since I wrote to Sony but nothing happened so far. And their phone line is not much of a help either :mad:
     

    Attached Files:

  28. Willscary

    Willscary Notebook Evangelist

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    I use IE...in fact, I have been using IE9 as my main browser since downloading it hours after it appeared. Being BETA, it is buggy...but I digress...

    I have always used IE and have kept it up to date. I am not an MS fanboy. It simply works. Firefox is used by many people and I have used it, but I don't care for it. I am a minimalist and I do not use the gazillion plug-ins that FF offers. I do like its quickness compared to recent versions of IE, but if that was a deciding factor, I would guess that I would be using Chrome.

    Chrome is very fast, at least on my machine and using my home connection. As Joe says, I am concerned with Google, so I no longer have Chrome on my machine. I use Yahoo for my home page and search, and have never cared for the Google search page.

    My biggest gripe with IE is how it handles Java. IE9 is quite a bit quicker with Java sites that IE8 is, but it is not perfect.

    Everyone will have their own opinions. In fact, I know Apple users who use Safari on their PCs!

    Chrome is supposed to be the fastest. Firefox is supposed to have something for everyone. IE is supposed to be junk because all the MS haters say it is. In the end, it is personal preference and I could care less what others use.

    I simply want a blazing fast browser that can handle everything that ANY website can throw at it without any hiccups. I would love to get rid of Adobe and other plug-ins and I can't wsait for the day when (hopefully) HTML5 will make Java and Flash obsolete.

    By the way, I have been using PDF X-change instead of Adobe Reader. It is blazing fast and works perfectly. It very seldomly needs an update and has been perfectly safe in all of the computers in which I have installed it.
     
  29. John_WA

    John_WA Notebook Geek

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    I'm curious as I'm not crazy about Adobe Reader. How long have you used it and how many computers did you install it in?

    Thanks!
     
  30. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    Oops! If you applied some glue, it may be yours. What kind of glue? Did you clean before applying the glue? Applied strong pressure on it until it cured (overnight +), etc? :confused:

    I've read somewhere that it's the same rubber that Sony_applies on their pro video cameras so try searches like this for the proper procedure & glue, sprayed or double-sided adhesive tape, etc. how to fix camera rubber grip.

    The rubber grip on my $1,300 Nikon D300 is also starting to coming off unglued in some spots but it's not a large enough area for me to research the subject yet.

    -------

    @ Willscarey: Why not give FF 4 Beta w/o add-ons (except for AdBlock Plus) a spin? I would like to read your comments about it! And don't forget to try the included features Sync & Panorama.
     
  31. Fishon

    Fishon I Will Close You

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    All this stuff becomes very personal in choice coming from our needs and comforts. In my opinion nothing wrong with Adobe Reader 9 and I use Adobe Acrobat 8 Pro. Fillable PDFs are important to me. PDF x-change, pdfforge, foxit, cute pdf, pdf creator. For a free pdf reader and some fillable utilities I would choose PDF X change as well.
    And for email I prefer Yahoo Small Business over Gmail and Outlook for various features, look and feel. Again, just personal choice.
     
  32. Willscary

    Willscary Notebook Evangelist

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    I have installed it on at least 12 computers. I have been using it on my own computer (and my previous computer) for at least 10 months.

    It has a look of Office 2007, but it really works. There are others also that are free and better than Reader, but I really like the speed of this one. It is smaller than Reader and much faster, especially with PDF files of a few dozen pages or more.
     
  33. Willscary

    Willscary Notebook Evangelist

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    An update on my new M705 mouse...

    I have now had it for a few days and have finally got the settings right where I want them. My only concern was with small movements being a bit jerky. Well, that problem is pretty much gone. I kept tweaking the Setpoint settings and it is now quite close to perfect for my tastes.

    I am sure I will probably tweak a touch more, but I am now very happy with this purchase.
     
  34. Fishon

    Fishon I Will Close You

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  35. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    Will, I since you come back again on the M705 & I've been reading a bit on several models recently as I am shopping for a mouse, the cons of the M705 for me are:

    1. Compared to a full mouse, it's short @ 11cm unless you do what's not recommended: rest your palm on the desk instead of on the mouse or have a small hand. My Laser 8000 is 12.5cm, barely enough for my palm to rest on the mouse.
    2. No thumb rest.
    3. Fixed & low 1000 dpi. That means a slow mouse with a 1080p display IMO.
    4. Needs 2 AA batteries which is a plus for reducing the need to recharge it but how about weight? I did not find data about it including the batteries so far.
    5. Not enough buttons.
    Image from this M705 review:

    [​IMG]

    If the price was not so steep when including shipping to Costa Rica ($150) I would get the G700 because I could use the extra buttons for productivity & convenience: copy, paste, minimize, context menu, open frequently used programs, volume up & down, etc, etc. There is a huge thread here about it: The Logitech G700 Wireless Gaming Mouse. Post #1 has 3 videos. Pros: 13 buttons, on-board memory with switchable profiles on the fly, etc.

    Because I can get the Performance MX from $75 shipped (used/refurbished) or $100 new, it seems it will be my choice. Pros:

    1. Length of 12.7cm
    2. Adjustable 1500 DPI max.
    3. Thumb rest.
    4. 9 Programmable buttons.

    Cons: it's not a G700. :)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    3 images are from Logitech Support, the third one is from this G700 review.

    *****
     
  36. mangosango

    mangosango Notebook Evangelist

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    Anyone here use Maxthon or Flock browsers? Chrome and safari are a pain beause they use their own font smoothing algorithms and to get custom gdi++/gdipp font rendering you have to use several hacks that - in the case of Chrome - cause memory errors every so often. I don't see this problem with flock though (even though it's built on the chromium engine).

    I heard that Maxthon is quite nice but I haven't tried it myself. Personally, I have a love-hate relationship with firefox. It's definitely the most customizable out of the popular browsers in terms of appearance and functionality, but at the same time there are some serious memory leaks that need patching. FF4 sounds promising, but it isn't that mod-able yet so I don't know how I feel about it.

    I actually like Opera, but for whatever reason I can't get used to using it. Opera unite and link provide some really powerful and unique web file transfer and sharing options and the browser itself is pretty snappy.

    ----

    In other news:

    HAWX gameplay + benchmark is up.

    All settings at their highest (except SSAO and high-quality soft shadows, which are on low) @ 1280x720. No Antialiasing.

    Average benchmark fps is 36 without FRAPS
    Average gameplay fps is 40 without FRAPS

    YouTube - Hawx Benchmark on Sony_Vaio_F11
    YouTube - Hawx Gameplay on Sony_Vaio_F11

    -------

    ALSO,

    Just ordered the Cyborg Rat 7:

    [​IMG]

    Gets here tomorrow :D. So excited
     
  37. Fishon

    Fishon I Will Close You

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    So what browser do you use? You make an excellent point we have not pointed out yet- the fact FF does have memory leaks. Is gdipp that cool?
     
  38. mangosango

    mangosango Notebook Evangelist

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    All 3 :D. Mostly chrome, but I also use opera and firefox. I use flock on my desktop.

    EDIT: gdipp is great! I think so anyway. Its like mac font rendering for your pc (you have to tweak the xml file to get it just right) but I like it. Others like cleartype better, but it's really personal preference. gdipp is a resource hog for large sections of text though (esp on chrome).
     
  39. Joe Bleau

    Joe Bleau Notebook Virtuoso

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    Check this kb article, it includes troubleshooting tips & memory monitoring tools links: High memory usage. One of the first suggestions:
    For me it's similar to some people saying that their F is slow. ;)

    Panorama in FF 4 is a great tool to keep all your tabs easily accessible but limit the number of actual tabs opened & that reduces considerably the memory usage. I used to keep a ton of tabs for reference & now they are all in some Panorama stacks regrouped by theme. I use it as a super bookmark feature. Try this search: firefox 4 beta memory management.

    *****

    Good luck with your cool looking R.A.T. Mouse, looking forward to your comments. I followed the links you posted but it does not fit me as there are too many cracks for my environment + it's corded. It looks like a lab mouse that would be used for design & ergonomic studies that they decided to sell. If so, it was a good move.
     
  40. r-gordon-7

    r-gordon-7 Notebook Enthusiast

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    Very cool looking mouse - is there anything similar for us lefties...?
     
  41. valsf11

    valsf11 Notebook Enthusiast

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    The glue you see is from my attempts (super-glue, cyanate). I wasn't very thorough cleaning the surfaces and it lasted for a couple of weeks but the rubber has changed shape, looks too big to fit and as a result doesn't last. I think Sony uses adhesive tapes of a kind. Trying to apply those would mean to take the whole thing apart and I am not sure I want to do that.
     
  42. cirrusbarbs

    cirrusbarbs Notebook Guru

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    I just found a fix. This is a know issue with windows 7 64bit. This is the way to fix it and it worked for me as well.

    1. Click Start and click Run...
    2. In the box that appears type: gpedit.msc and click the OK button
    3. The Group Policy Window will appear. In the left panel extend Windows Components and click AutoPlay Policies
    4. In the right panel locate Turn off Autoplay and double-click on it to open the Properties window
    5. Click on Disable. Click Apply and then OK
    6. Finished.
     
  43. Jacol

    Jacol Notebook Consultant

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    Man, cyanate glues they meltdown plastic. This type of glue is too agressive to glue the rubber with plastic. You just ruined your Vaio.
     
  44. Thalin

    Thalin Newbie

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    I'm having a hard time deciding between this laptop and the Macbook Pro 17". To be honest I prefer the design of this laptop.

    I will be using it mainly for photo editing, design work, video playing and editing etc. Battery life is a plus as I will probably be taking it on photo shoots. A good screen is a must, and it has to be matt/antiglare. The specs are better on this machine, if only it had as good battery life as the Macbook Pro :(
     
  45. OrDoS

    OrDoS Newbie

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    Buy a second larger battery along with the F, probably it'll be cheaper than buying a Mac Pro 17'' (and it's less hot) :cool:
     
  46. JefDeLathouwer

    JefDeLathouwer Notebook Consultant

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    There is an update released for Vaio care. It should increase performance and stability of vaio care. This is found on the Belgian supportsite of Sony_Vaio. VAIO Care update

    EDIT: Before installing this patch, please make sure that VAIO Event Service version 5.1.2.03030 or higher is installed.

    The tricky part is that there isn't an update for VAIO event service and the latest version is 5.1.0.11300.

    EDIT2: Update found on the supportsite of the Middle East and Africa. Event service update
     
  47. Willscary

    Willscary Notebook Evangelist

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    Joe,

    Of everything you wrote, one item caught my eye...you said that the M705 does not have enough buttons.

    Well, I don't like a lot of buttons. I would be very happy with a mouse that performs well and has right and left click buttons plus the scroll wheel that scrolls both horizontally and vertically. I don't need, use or want the other buttons.

    Your picture shows how I hold my mouse. My MX 610 was slightly larger, but I never actually laid my palm on it, so it really does not feel a whole lot different than the M705. I would not want to go smaller than the M705 though. The other mice in our house are too small for me.

    The Performance MX probably fits your needs better. It works fantastically and is as large as my MX 610. It has a plethora of buttons that can be assigned as you want. It feels very solid. My only complaint is that the thumb area is TOO sculpted for my liking. My fat paws are too big to fit comfortably in the deep thumb groove. If you have thin fingers, this will probably be a non-issue for you.

    As far as resting my palm...I rest the heel of my hand on the desk just as the picture shows. I have no problems. My hand never loses feeling. On a related note, I read a lot about large, heavy DSLR lenses and bodies being "too heavy" or "too bulky". Some people expect a point and shoot to be able to reach out and take a sharp, perfect photo of a subject 500 meters away. Come on...long distance requires larger optics...period. To complain that something is heavy??? Get into some kind of shape! A five pound camera system (or, in this case, a 6.9lb laptop) is not much weight. Try lifting 65lb concrete block all day or 94lb bags of cement.

    Sorry for the off topic rant! :D

    I hope this helps with your decision.
     
  48. dappolo

    dappolo Notebook Enthusiast

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    Hey everyone : 2 Quick Questions.

    I love this laptop...but its battery life does get very annoying. Honestly, I'd say mine lasts <2 hours...

    I'm looking for a way to maximize my battery life during classes and keep the computer as quiet as possible. Often times the fan turns on and it makes a ridiculous amount of noise for silent rooms such as the library. Performance isn't an issue in these settings, as I am just using Microsoft Office. I am aware that a larger battery is an option, but I'm not really willing to shell out ~$250 atm.

    Though I'm sure this has been asked, I don't have time to look through all 4 threads :( Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance if anyone replies
     
  49. Fishon

    Fishon I Will Close You

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    Had a feeling the answer was in the Group Policy Window. Good for you.
     
  50. John_WA

    John_WA Notebook Geek

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    Thanks Willscary....I'll have to try it!
     
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