Official Sony Vaio Fit multi-flip PC Owners' Thread

While the Tjmax of Haswell is 100C, you shouldn't be operating at that temperature for long periods of time. With my experience with overclocking Intel CPUs, I'd say 80-85C is a safe temp for long term use.

If this ultrabook's paste job was anything like my Asus Zenbook UX32VD, it was terrible. I used IC Diamond 7 and cleaned out the fans and it was a massive difference. 3-4C on the CPU when it idled and 6-8C difference on the GPU loaded. TBH, I didn't pay attention much to CPU load temps after re-pasting because I mainly did it for lower GPU temps. For the GPU, I was actually able to run it OC'd without throttling for 1-2 hour gaming sessions after I re-pasted, whereas before it would begin to throttle within 5-10 minutes.

 

I think there is a difference between an overclocked chip reaching that temp and a non-oc'd one (the former will use more energy thanks to the higher clock rate) but that's probably nitpicking, especially as we don't even think about overclocking the Flips... ;-)

Regardless of that, 80C is still 20C higher than what we seem to get with the current BIOS. Problem is, I don't think that Sony will give us another one that allows for higher temps or even a user setting for that. The current ones are downright castrated compared to the standard UEFI BIOS versions of regular mainboards and not comparable to OC mainboards by a longshot.

With graphics cards I'm sometimes shocked about the bad stuff Nvidia and ATI use and how much they use on their reference cards/designs. The cooling systems are often barely sufficient and/or noisy and even expensive cards throttle now to stay within the limits. You practically have to get a third-party product with its own design to make full use of the GPU.
But what do Nvidia and ATI care? The "hardcore gamers" and "benchmarkers" apparently replace this stuff on a yearly basis or more often... ;-)

I've seen both good and terrible jobs from the same manufacturer and sometimes better jobs from cheaper manufacturers.
We talk about pure consumer machines here, though, and we usually won't get the same level of quality and consistency as with pro and/or server hardware. For example, I've just disassembled two Xeon-equipped "blade" servers and a P4-equipped workstation from Dell from about 2005/2006 to salvage some parts and I was pleasantly surprised that they used the good stuff on them and not too much of it.

The Acer PC I mentioned before used the right amount but the paste looked like a dried-up salt lake. The old PS3 on the other hand had clearly too much of it. As I naturally can't get the temps from the PS3 you have to take my word for it that it was much quieter afterwards.

But even a terrible paste job is probably better than the thermo pads they put on the other chips. I once repaired a fat PS3 by using components from two defective ones (long story) but the one with the defective motherboard likely had a dead HDMI chip as the pad on it was fried onto its surface...

This stuff makes of for great war stories, doesn't it? ;-)

Back to the Flips, though:

If this video is an indication there may be some room for optimization:
Flip 14A tear-down by Sony

 

The 60+ °C temps are harmful not for the cpu but for the batteries.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

 

Hello dear Community,

I have a two questions, and must admit didn't read the whole topic, as it is too big for me.

My first problem is (having Fit 13A) the cooler starting to work basically every 1 minute - does exists any bios which is improving his workflow?

Second question is for me far more important - I want to have automatically started windows keyboard when clicking on text field (in tablet mode) while beeing on desktop. Please help me somehow.
Thanks.

 

Good argument - in theory - but the 60C are on the CPU chip itself and not directly on the battery.

First of all, the cooler and the heat pipes won't get as hot as the CPU - and if I had a better IR thermometer and more time I would confirm that - and secondly there still is some air between them and the battery. While there is of course heat radiation most of it will be transported to the fan exhaust unit. That's the purpose of the heat pipes and not dissipating the heat along the way into the case.

I'm also pretty sure that the engineers would have designed a different cooling system if the battery would be in immediate danger of getting too much heat.

 

Nope, the temp on the CPU is 60C, not the battery. My last ultrabook would idle in the mid 50s and the fan was silent. The CPU ran extremely hot during gaming sessions (85-90C easily) and after owning it for 2 years, there was no degradation in performance whatsoever. You have to realize that these CPUs were meant to run hot. Sony doesn't need to baby them... If Sony does not release a BIOS update that will lower the fan speeds to REASONABLE noise levels, I have lost all respect for them as a company because something as simple as this shouldn't even need to be discussed...

 

hey guys.... im sorry if this has already been answered or not...
im getting the vaio flip 15 all maxed out... (1080P) im an architecture student, and i basically work with cad files and sketchup and studio max and cs6.... you basically get the idea...
i wana know what is the limit of how much this machine can do... i7 4500u..
i know it has a ulv processor... but lets just say i like the concept, and 2 in 1 functionality....
so please guys if anyone of you has been cadding reply!!!

 

Did anyone on here already try the new R1120DD Bios Update? It states on the Sony page - that it was launched on April 24th.

 

What device is this for? Just checked the support page for my model and it still shows 250DD as the newest version.

 

I have it on my Flip 15A "Spring Refresh" model I bought here in Germany.

 

Yes it is for the spring refresh model --- but the hardware is the same - right? so it should work on the old models too - probably =)

 

I'm running 1120DD, didn't really notice any difference from the previous one, but also no particular problems that wasn't there before.

 

From what I read the hardware should be the same.
I decided for the SR model because it already came with 8.1 installed and I don't like to buy refurbished machines from a manufacturer (these are returned machines, perhaps for pixel defects and other reasons).
I also liked to have Photoshop Elements 12 but was disappointed that it wasn't optimized for the higher screen res (I fixed that by using a hacked .manifest file but that's another story...).

However, we just had a problem in a German forum with one owner having installed the 260 BIOS version over the 250 version and nearly didn't get the machine to boot again.

Lesson: Don't install a BIOS - unless necessary! And even if you deem it necessary: Only install a BIOS the manufacturer says is compatible!

 

Hi, I just bought the 14' model. The guy from Best Buy told me that it has wireless display capability. But when I tested it with my PTV3000, it didn't work. I was able to install the device and enter the WPS PIN, but nothing's happening. Does anyone here have any success in getting the 14' model to work with WiDi or Miracast? Thank you.

 

I've found an interesting topic about Flip's throttling issue:
Flip 15A Sudden CPU and GPU throttling while gamin... - Sony's Community Site

 

You should check if you have an Intel wifi card. I bought a Geek Squad refurbished 14" from Best Buy and it came with a Broadcom card.

 

Very interesting - thanks for the link!

:-(

Am I understanding this correctly that the machine has to completely shut off the Nvidia chip (via Optimus) when the i7-CPU is allowed to use Turbo-Boost?
Or in other words: I have to prevent Turbo-Boost on the i7 to enable Optimus to allow the Nvidia chip to engage?

If that is the case then the whole setup is a paradoxon! Am I the only one that feels that this is a hokey design?

Don't I need the whole speed of the i7 to put the Nvidia to good use?

Doesn't the "thermal budget" of the i7 restrict its full use of both the CPU and integrated graphics unit? So if I lose the Intel graphics the Intel CPU should be allowed to enter Turbo (for those older single-core-only games) to drive the Nvidia better, shouldn't it?

But is it correct that apparently the Nvidia gets throttled even though only the CPU gets hotter than 60C...

This surely warrants for more inspection - alas I don't have the time (I prepare a relocation...). So let's hope that MrKazoo who is more knowledgeable in GPUs than me finds out more or even a solution to this debacle.

The only "positive" aspect for me is that I mostly didn't buy this specific 15A-model for the Nvidia chip but for the higher resolution display (for web reading, writing, drawing and photo editing) and got the Nvidia "for free".
I had hoped for a better system design from Sony, though, and that using the Nvidia wouldn't hurt the CPU but instead getting more use out of it. What else would be the sense of it? Demand more money for integrating a chip that doesn't work? Or do I have to move into the polar regions to prevent the Flip from throttling?

But apparently Sony can only design clever hinges now - now that they sold their PC business they perhaps should enter the furniture industry...

(I know, many questions, no answers - sorry for ranting...)

 

Just got a Sony flip 15 from eBay barely used. I must say this machine is amazing. Maybe because I am coming from a 6 year old 16 inch Vaio but the fan doesn't annoy me at all. Its on alot but very low. I hear it kick up once in a while but never for very long and mostly when I have it in tablet mode. Honestly the damn hard drive is more annoying than the fan noise. I plan on swapping in a Samsung evo when I get a chance. I haven't run any games yet however.

I have a spring refresh version I am guessing because the umber 2 in my sku ,but I don't seem to have PhotoShop elements.

 

Can the elements obtained officialy for the older models ? Hungary didn't get the spring refresh models at all

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I haven't see a link for that on the Sony support page for my Spring Refresh model - so I doubt that they make it a free download.

 

What I know for sure is that the processor's clock drops significantly (it gets about half of its dedicated MHz count) when both the GPU and CPU are under heavy load for short period of time, for example while gaming. Theoretically, Turbo Boost will not kick in at all while gaming due to high temperatures. This is not just Flip's issue. I've checked the GPU clock on my Vaio F11M1E (GeForce 330M) - it also lowers the MHz count by half while gaming (from 2600 to 1300 MHz).

 

Just a quick question: I have found Vaio Flip 15 with GeForce 735M, but there are also same Flips with GF 740M. What is the difference between them? Is the one with 740M a refreshed version? Or is it just overclocked 735M?

 

Where did you see a Flip with a 740M? I have a Spring Refresh model but it has a 735M just like the first ones.

 

It's everywhere, for example here (biggest polish trading portal):
Sony VAIO MULTI-FLIP SVF15N FHD DOTYK i5 GT740 Win (4213527593) - Allegro.pl - Więcej niż aukcje.

A lot of companies offer Flip with 740M.

 

I haven't seen it here in Germany, yet, but I also haven't really checked in the last several weeks...

However, as for the differences:

One would think that the 740M is a higher number than the 735M and would therefore automatically be more powerful but the 735M is less powerful than a 730M, for example (the 735M is being marketed as a low-power chip).

Here is where it gets a bit complicated:

According to notebookcheck.com there are actually two versions of the 740M:
a) at first (in the beginning of 2013) it was based on the GK107 chip with a 128-bit memory interface and a 810-895 MHz clock rate (depending on the notebook)
b) more recently it is based on the GK208 chip with only a 64-bit interface but an increased clock rate: 980 - 1058 MHz (also depending on the notebook)

The 735M is also based on the GK208 chip with the 64-bit interface but clocks at 575 - 889 MHz (the memory is clocked a bit faster than on the 740M).

Both have the same amount of shaders (384) and the same type of memory (DDR3, max. 2GB), although the 740M could also use DDR5.

A 740M is clearly better according specs, especially the older one with the wider memory interface.
Notebookcheck claims that the GK208-based 740M is usually about 10 to 15% faster than a 735M (which wouldn't be noticeable). This depends on the clock rate, obviously.
The older GK107-based 740M would be 30 to 40% faster, though, which can be very noticeable (15 vs. 20 frames per second, for example) or a higher detail level. This older 740M also uses more energy - up to 33W, compared to about 20W on the 735M.

It would therefore be very interesting which version is used in the Flip (I'm guessing the newer one because of power usage) and how it would be clocked - and if this has consequences on temperatures, throttling etc.

Edit 1:
According to notebookcheck.com Nvidia's "3D Vision" can't be used in combination with the Optimus feature (which is used in the Flips) - if this is true the advertising on the trading portal you linked would be "misleading", to put it politely...

Edit 2:
I read that the normal frequency of the 735M in the Flip is 940 MHz - but it can get throttled down to 405 MHz (this can be increased to 575 MHz using Nvidia Inspector, though).

 

it's a broadcom. no wonder i can't get it to work. thank you.

 

Ok, I browsed through 224 pages and sorry if I missed the answer to this.. But, I am unable to boot to bios/usb on my Flip 15A. I tried holding the Assist key down on boot and it just sits there for a very long time at a black screen, until I finally power it down and boot it up normally. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

Did you turn it on by only pressing the Assist button?
I.e. not turning it on via the power button and then holding the assist button, but doing a shutdown - then press Assist.

 

He didn't.

And he also didn't RTFM: "Recovery, Backup and Troubleshooting Guide" - Page 1.

"press the ASSIST button while your computer is off to display the VAIO Care (Rescue Mode) screen, and select Start BIOS setup."

 

Actually I did, when I hold ASSIST down the power light comes on, and the computer just sits there for 20+ minutes without doing anything. Screen stays black, sometimes harddrive flickers a bit. But no BIOS/POST/anything but black screen.

 

Then I am sorry - but that's unimportant as you have a bigger problem now...

Did you already try the reset button (tiny hole in the back cover)?

 

No worries. Ya, tried after I hit assist to boot up, before I hit assist. It just sits there at black screen. I disable fast boot, did everything I could think of. Bonkers. lol. I just want to dual boot linux. :'(

 

has anyone downloaded the new R0270DDBIOS yet? I installed it, didn't really notice anything different.

 

Yup. Noticed no difference.

 

Guys,
I've visited my local Sony Centre store. People from the store crew told me that I can't buy Vaio Flip 15 and upgrade RAM nor HDD on my own since "those parts are not accessible and fixed into motherboard".
I've checked the photos from Flip 15 teardown and I was shocked - RAM can be upgraded (easy accessible) and HDD can be as well - with little effort. I kind of lost my trust to Sony after this. I guess I will choose MBP afterall, but still tablet mode is so tempting (for art of course).

 

Forget about Sony, you have no reason anymore to trust them. They are only a shadow of the good ol' Sony, a company we could trust once. In Brussels they are closing now all the brick and mortar Sony stores, so today I can buy their products at a really low price. Unfortunately I don't have any interest, I lost my confidence in Sony.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

You probably have the black screen bug I ran into. If you have the refreshed Flip with BIOS R1120DD, I suggest you downgrade to R1100DD. The non-refreshed Flip's have a new BIOS (R0270DD) that supposedly fixes this issue. Just to test if you have this bug, upon pressing the Assist button, wait a little bit, press the 'down' arrow key multiple (3-5) times, and press enter. If your computer turns off, that means the above bug applies to you.

 

If I would get a buck (or an Euro ;-)) for every ty advice I get from a sales person I'd be rich by now...

I can't say anything about the quality of the support from the companies you mentioned but where I live Sony doesn't exactly excel in this area. It appears to me that they don't do anything themselves anymore and have outsourced to cheaper countries to save (their) money.

That's why I'm always reluctant to buy Sony stuff and that's exactly why I opened up my Flip on the second day and intentionally voided the warranty (after I checked that everything works as expected) and put an SSD into it myself (I couldn't get new 15" Flips with SSD built-in anymore where I live). In the end it was cheaper as the SSD is bigger ;-)

However, I won't slam Sony for something that seems to be the norm. I hold similar "grudges" against most companies out there right now as they all operate the same: They are simply not interested in keeping you as a returning, loyal customer for many years anymore - they only want the immediate, hard sell to spike their statistics to satisfy shareholders.

In order to maximize profits in short time they began to overprice repairs and spare parts so that you don't let them repair stuff anymore. You buy new stuff instead because a repair isn't economical.
And even if you have a warranty that forces them to repair or replace your unit they rather do the latter - as it's a) cheaper for them and b) most customers are somewhat satisfied with a newer device of a lower (cheaper) class. They don't compare the price you paid with the replacement unit but what it is worth right now (SRP). There are verdicts in my country that protect the customer in this but they try anyway as most customers are badly informed about their rights.

A MBP is perhaps the more sensible solution to you anyway...

 

I get a feeling that the only one who cared about people was Steve Jobs, but yet I just cannot understand why other companies just won't apply the same policy... It seems that Apple has benefited from Job's approach a lot.

I just don't get the people sometimes. I am a designer in financial services company and I just love keeping all details together and paying attention to that little things. Therefore I always had a problem with choosing proper hardware for myself.

Thanks for your opinion!

 

Wow, are you kidding? One of the main reasons I will not own an Apple product is because of their disgraceful sales practices which even got the attention of the FCC; one or two major suits against Apple and AT&T for restraint of trade and violation of the Sherman Anti-trust act are -- I believe -- still active. In the United States (when they were exclusive with AT&T) if you unlocked your phone, every time you got some kind of update, they would re-lock your phone to AT&T because Apple was taking a huge bite of their service contracts. A close friend is an app developer and if he (or anyone else) developed an iPhone app that competed with an internal Apple App, you'd never get it "approved" for the Apple store. Please... I'm not looking for love, just function.

 

I was rather referring to build quality and design. We live in times when you have to choose between build quality, good support and functionaliity and yet you will always be disappointed with your purchase. We have very limited options and it's not consumer centered approach. At least this is how I see the notebook market. (hate!)

 

Same. They still haven't resolved the issue with the fans..... I highly doubt they ever will at this point. Extremely disappointing~

 

We have both Mac Book Pros and Windows computers in our family. Our experience is that the Mac is no more or less troublesome than the Windows devices. But, Apple does have a generous repair policy. I live in California, where if one does not have an Apple computer there is "something wrong with you." But from a purely tech point, Apple is being phased out of the graphics/animation side of the film industry in favor of Windows 8.

 

I'm with my Flip by a couple of days and I'm very pleased. There are one or two build flaws, but I think it's acceptable.

I have NO issues with the fan after the BIOS update. But there is an issue that occur when the unit is plugged to AC adapter: the touchscreen became useless. Any of my touches are recognized and I can't do anything with. I know that is a EMI (eletromagnetic interference) problem and when it is on battery everything works fine. But I found the touch screen very usefull and this problem disrupts the digitizer pen when I'm drawing and this is very annoying.

I already downloaded the Panel Calibration Tool, but it's fruitless. Anyone know if there is a definitive solution to this?

Thank you.

 

Actually I do find the fan to be more quiet since the bios update. Have not experienced issues with the touch screen

 

Hey Guys,

Need some help here. My SVF14N which is only about 4-5 months old has all off a sudden started to make very loud noises in the last couple of days
Pls. see recording here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/20cj03b9jy9cblr/Voice 001.m4a

I initially thought this doesn't sound like the fan and it might be hard drive, so I backed up every thing I have. But I had no problems during the back up process, have had no hard disk error messages or hard disk usage go up in the task manager. I am unable to avail warranty as I bought this from the US and am now in China. I had a computer guy check it and he said its most likely the fan and the fan would need to be replaced. I know these machines have had problems with fans, but before I get the laptop opened I was just wondering if there might be any possible software solutions? Also, I would appreciate your opinion if this sounds like fan noise of hard disk noise?

My windows (8.1) and all vaio software/BIOS are up to date.

I would really appreciate some help asap, as I need to make a decision on getting it opened tomorrow, as this is my main work laptop.

Thanks

 

I really have no idea what that sounds like, but I'd be very surprised if that was the sound of a working hard drive - so, like your computer guy said, probably the fan.
I'd just go ahead and open it up. It's not very difficult, just take off the rubber at the bottom, unscrew (remembering where they go) and carefully pry off the cover (there are several guides available - I'd advise you have a look at those).

 

Quiet is relative. Working alone at home, this laptop is extremely loud compared to my previous ultrabook. When the CPU temps are in the 50s from any light usage, the fan begins to become annoying. By the time it hits the 60s, from watching streaming videos and such, this thing sounds like a jet engine. I can't even enjoy the audio without using headphones. Also, the fan ramps up for no reason and just stays like that for a couple minutes before slowing down, even if my temps are in the 40s.

There is no reason at all for this laptop to being making ANY NOISE at these temperatures. My previous ultrabook had a 3rd gen i7 and a dedicated video card, and the CPU always idled in the 50s and it was completely silent. Even when streaming videos, the fan was not audible. Sony has no excuse for how poorly executed the fan curve is on the Flip devices. It's a REALLY EASY fix and they still have not done anything about it.

Lol, as I am typing this, my fan is ramping up... CPU temp is 45C.....

 

It's not that I want to slam you personally, but I get sick and tired of this whole Steve Jobs worshipping.
Steve didn't care about people, he just cared about their money.

Remember when the iPhone 4 was launched? Remember the problems with the antenna? What was his first response? You are holding it wrong! But it is true that once defeat was inevitable, Apple did apologise and offered free bumpers. And that's where other companies will keep kicking and screaming, or act plain dumb.

But the real danger with Apple is, that they know they have a significant power in the market. And Apple isn't shy to abuse that power.
Remember the price fixing with ebooks? Apple hit with $840 million damages claim for ebooks price fixing | The Verge

Remember the Jihad against anything "sexually" oriented apps and games in iTunes? Why does Apple still offer the Playboy and Sports Illustrated app?
5 Sexy Apps Still in the iTunes Store | News & Opinion | PCMag.com
Swimsuit Catalogue Banned, Sports Illustrated App Remains | Gizmodo Australia

But I'll stop here, as this is the VAIO Fit thread.

 

I'm going by a game program which, every time I fired it up, the fan went full blast, and I am working at home alone. No, it's quieter. Or maybe it's not coming on now and the whole thing will just go up in flames.