Sony Vaio Z i5/i7 Official Owners Thread

Try 3 months.

 

The memory used in RAM is MUCH faster than SSD. Similarly the memory used in Cache is MUCH faster than RAM. The costs clearly reflect that.

 

Scarcasm, I hope

 

Just saw where that review got the dodgy photos from, it is in fact from sony style uk website.

check out the profile picture right at the bottom. Looks like a hybrid between old and new z.

https://www.sonystyle.co.uk/SonyStyle/VAIO-Laptop-PCs/Z-Series-13-1?config=x&csint=14002893

edit: actually it's just a photo of the old z, still sloppy of sony to do that.

 

On machines with SSD's, superfetch will more than likely be disabled by default on Windows 7 along with the defrager included with Windows. Read this post from Microsoft on how SSD's are managed in Windows 7.

RAM disks are not as important with SSD drives. Back in the day, one of the main performance benefits of RAM disks was access time. When traditional disk access times were in the 15-30ms range, moving operations to RAM made a lot of sense. RAM can be accessed much more rapidly. With the advent of SSD's access times were reduced dramatically, most are sub-millisecond. Sure, RAM is much faster than NAND, but it is questionable how much this impacts daily operations.

It is for this reason I stopped using RAM disks on my machines with SSD's and never looked back. The additional time and effort to setup the disk doesn't make sense to me. I can't tell any difference in performance either, other than having more RAM available for the things I need it for, like VMWare.

Now, if you use programs, like Photoshop, that aggressively use a scratch disk for cache operations, it may make sense for you. It is a slippery slope though; eat up some of your RAM for a RAM disk, Photoshop will put more in the scratch file. Mileage may very.

I would most vehemently recommend against killing your page file AND using a RAM disk. 8GB seems like a lot of RAM until you start carving it up.

 

Yes I'm aware that RAM is faster than SSD. I don't know what you mean that cache is much faster than RAM. Are you referring to cache on the CPU? That's largely irrelevant to the discussion. The question is whether pre-caching of programs in RAM is worthwhile with SSDs. It's either worthwhile or it isn't, can't have it both ways. I don't have an opinion either way, but if it's worthwhile I thin using superfetch rather than RAM disk is a better way of doing it.

 

There was an interview on a German site with someone from Sony Germany ( link), who said that they'll refresh the line ups every 3 months. The next update is planned for March/April (though not for the Z, I think it'll be refreshed around June-August).

 

I just did and the results are just ridiculous. This is from RAM disk on my notebook.

Follow this guide:

http://ask-leo.com/how_do_i_change_the_location_of_windows_temporary_files.html

First of all, I'm not sure if you understand what a RAM disk is. RAM disk is a virtual disk that your OS recognizes as a physical drive. You can place programs, folders, and whatever else that you want on it. Yes RAM is volatile, this is true, but I personally never had issues unless the RAM itself was overclocked (on a desktop) and had stability issues. I have a RAM disk set up on my notebook and it works like a charm.

Main use of RAM Disk on my notebook is for temp folders and downloads, which gets deleted when the system is shut down, to lessen the writes on my Vertex SSD. The folders remain but the contents get deleted. I also use the RAM disk to run some programs, such as GIMP and OpenOffice. Why? Because I performed speed tests and both programs loaded faster from the RAM Disk than the Vertex. Plus, there was plenty of space left on the RAM drive so I decided to use it for some programs. These programs and temp folder directories are not lost after shut down because the RAM Disk program sets up an image, on the drive of your choosing, of itself during installation. You can save to this image if you have made any changes that you want to keep. Otherwise, you can keep it as it is without ever saving to it again. I like to set up the drive, then create all my temp folders, install a few programs that I want to run off the RAM Disk, then save. I have rarely ever saved again to it.

There is a very minor penalty you pay for having a RAM disk since it can increase Windows load up by a few seconds. But once it is loaded, you're good to go.

Again, superfetch is useless on a SSD. It is disabled by default when you install Windows 7 to a SSD. Defrag is also disabled by default. You can turn both on, but again, superfetch would not do anything to enhance your experience on a SSD. It's a feature that was created to enhance the Windows experience on a traditional hard drive since data is retrieved at a much, much slower speed from the mechanical drives. Thus it made sense for the OS to "intelligently" load these commonly used programs to the RAM under traditional hard drive use.

 

No, I am referring to the quality of the memory, in the various memory products used in these devices, with Cache memory being significantly more faster than the memory used in RAM and RAM in turn being significantly faster than the fastest SSD.

 

For those concerned about fan noise....copy some Muzak music to your Z and play it softly as background music to drown out the whirrrrr of the fan.

 

Thanks for the explanation, that is what I expected RAM disk to be doing but I didn't know how the software is implemented.

But the thing is, it still sounds like superfetch and RAM disk are doing the same thing as far as program caching is concerned. They do it in different ways but the end result is the same: the programs you use get preloaded into RAM for fast access. Let's say for the sake of argument that superfetch chooses to load exactly those programs into RAM that you would install on your RAM disk. Then what differences are there?

By the way volatile just means the RAM loses its data when the power cuts off.

 

I've never heard the term "cache memory" being used to describe a class of memory before. Can you explain some more about what exactly this kind of memory is, or perhaps provide a link with explanations?

 

He just referred to the memory classification known as memory hierarchy. You can search for it in google or read this Wikipedia article.

 

Again, RAM disk is mainly used for temp folders and downloads, which gets deleted during shut down since it is not saved, to alleviate many small writes to the SSD. But since I have RAM disk set up, I also use it to run "some" programs from it because it can load programs faster than the SSD. Both are very fast when it comes loading programs, RAM disk is just a "bit" faster. I can run any programs off the SSD just fine since it's plenty fast on its own. I just enjoy watching OpenOffice Writer load up within a second without its background service running when it's loaded up from the RAM drive.

In any case, you don't need to set up a RAM drive so that you can disable superfetch. Having a SSD is reason enough because benefit of superfetch is negated by the speed of SSD's.

Oh, and I knew that about "volatile", haha.

 

I fully agree that it sounds like a good idea to keep temp files in the RAM disk. But as far as programs are concerned, I don't see what the benefits are of installing programs in the RAM disk, as opposed to just using superfetch? They both achieve the same thing, but superfetch does it more efficiently in many ways. If you like the speed with which programs launch if they reside in the RAM, even when you have an SSD, why not just leave superfetch on? It'll achieve the same effect. Or are you using Linux perhaps?

 

I asked him if it's CPU cache and he said no.

 

What about Windows and Virtual Memory? With SSD drives and 8GB RAM wouldn't you want to use as much virtual memory as possible to keep as much read/write activity on the RAM side? This may be an argument for getting as much RAM as you can get to decrease SSD degradation rate.

(I'm not a computer or laptop expert....but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express a few years ago)

 

I have Vista 64 installed on my notebook and it has the Vertex SSD. On my desktop I have SuperTalent SSD (same Indilinx controller Vertex uses) and it has Windows 7 installed. Both systems have superfetch disabled. One by default (Win 7) and the other one was disabled manually.

The reason I did this was simple. Superfetch's effectiveness is negated by the speed which SSD's retrieve their data.

I highly encourage you do some googling on this. There are tons of info regarding this on the net.

I would love to discuss this more, but I have to run. Gots to go exercise.

 

I'm not sure if you are purposely avoiding the question.

If the benefits of superfetch are reversed, then that also takes out the argument for installing programs onto RAM disk...

 

I think what people are saying is that a RAM disk is significantly faster than using a USB drive for SuperFetch. That's why you'd use a RAM disk.

I don't really know enough about how Win7's default implementation of SuperFetch works with the installed system memory. I've got 8GB in my work computer, and Windows never shows more than 3-4GB being consumed so I'm assuming that it's not actually intelligently pre-caching all my programs into the memory. By using a RAM disk, you'd basically be forcing this behavior.

 

Don't confuse ReadyBoost with SuperFetch. Superfetch has nothing to do with external storage.

As I mentioned in my previous post, superfetch is disabled on most Win7 devices with SSD. Read the Microsoft link I provided for detailed information.

 

Hm, maybe I'm confused. I thought SuperFetch normally worked in conjunction with an inserted ReadyBoost device and that it didn't actually do very much with the installed system memory.

The point I was making is that for people without an SSD (or with a slow, old, crappy one), using a RAM disk seems to provide dramatically more noticeable results than just relying on SuperFetch to "intelligently" automate the process.

EDIT: According to this article, SuperFetch really sound like it doesn't pre-load much (anything?) into RAM, just moves things around on your hard drive:

"SuperFetch is essentially a memory management feature designed to enhance Windows Vista's responsiveness when loading and switching between applications that you use most often. Using adaptive techniques, SuperFetch will constantly reorganize most often used data and applications on the hard disk and intelligently move them to specific locations on the hard disk where they can be loaded into memory the fastest."

That would explain why it's not worth messing with on SSD, whereas a RAM drive still might be (though the difference will be much less dramatic than on a hard drive system).

 

Folks, please read this article from MS. While it doesn't go into RAM disks, it explains most of the other concepts

http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/05/05/support-and-q-a-for-solid-state-drives-and.aspx

 

Depends also on how many programs you like to have running at any given time.

 

SQLServer will use what you give it and quite effectively, too.

 

I believe Virtual Memory uses the disk to simulate RAM, so I think you mean to say "use as little virtual memory as possible". Then again, virtual memory should be used only when RAM runs out, so...

I understand why temp files stored on RAMDisks is a good thing, I set up my Linux filesystem in that manner. But for programs, since RAM is volatile storage, the penalty of reading from some disk must always be incurred at some point in time. I think RAM disks have their benefits if multiple reads from disk, of the same region, has to be performed. The other instance I can think of is pre-loading: rather than loading when the program is needed and waiting for it, it can be loaded say in the middle of the night into RAM, so that during the day it starts off of RAM.

:laugh:

 

I'm deciding between Glossy Premium Carbon vs Premium Carbon
Any suggestion guys?
I've never seen an actual picture of the Glossy Premium yet.

 

Or use those little Noise cancelling buds Sony's packaging with the Z.. maybe they're in there for a reason

 

This video shows both in a good comparison....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=813mS96RF6Y

 

Superfetch seems to work pretty well with my Windows 7 laptop with a hard drive, it lets me instantly start some of the programs that I use often, that otherwise would take up to a minute to start.

I can see how with an SSD this benefit is largely negated. However what I don't understand is what mechguy said about installing programs on RAM disk even with an SSD. It seems to me like in that case, the better thing to do is just to not use the RAM disk for programs, and re-enable superfetch. The benefits may be very small in this case but if RAM disk makes a noticeable difference, then superfetch can do the same. But with superfetch you can leave it to the OS to manage the caching and only load the objects and libraries actually used by the program into memory, whereas with RAM disk you keep a copy of all the files installed by the program in memory, and another copy of all the objects and libraries of the program when the program is started, essentially two copies or worse. The only reason I can think of for using RAM disk to store programs rather than superfetch is if superfetch doesn't work well and you want to force pre-loading of specific programs. But maybe there's some other benefit that I'm unaware of, and that's what I'm trying to figure out.

 

Sorry, "Cache" is not restricted to the CPU alone (which seemed to be the implication in your earlier question) and is used in other applications too, where ultra-fast I/O access is required (CPU being one of those applications).

"Cache" is simply a class of memory that is several dimensions faster than the class of memory used in RAM. You are talking relatively about the difference between a crack Harvard graduate (Cache) versus a highschool dropout (RAM), debating the minutiae of high-end business strategy.

And the quality of the memory used in RAM (effectively the main-stream "scratch-pad" of the system) is several dimensions faster than the I/O speeds possible by using say the SSD as a "scratch-pad". For this aspect, this is akin to comparing a smart high-school graduate (RAM) with a slow dimwit (SSD).

 

I picked up my Z117 today from Sonystyle Hong Kong.
I got the laptop and the free carrying case but the premium presents such as the Swiss army knife I didn't get...they will arrive next week.
Doesn't really matter...as long as I got the laptop.
One thing I must note...the first time turning on the laptop took just 5 minutes...(choosing what language to configure the laptop....entering details...configuring Windows and software).
I was impressed since on my Z51 it took almost 30 minutes for the same process.

Overall I am pleased with the laptop. The screen is nice and it runs snappy.
Any questions?

 

1920 x 1080 or 1600 x 900 ? General impressions, diagonal lines present or not, and better or the same as the C2D Z series screen ? Thank you.

 

congrats! whats your config? lots of ssd questions

 

How's the battery life on speed and stamina mode? and how's the fan noise during idle, doing non-intensive tasks, and during processor or gpu intensive tasks?

 

Sure...
What color (carbon, silver, glossy)?
Did you get the SSD configuration? If so, is there a way for you to dig into the RAID controller screens and see how things look?

 

Nope, no questions. Thanks.


j/k To start, if I'm not mistaken, you have an SSD-enabled model, correct? Any chance you can go through the bios to see what RAID configurations are available?

-Peter

 

I'm aware that cache is not restricted to CPU alone. That is why I asked if you specifically meant CPU cache. "Cache" by itself can mean any kind of storage that is used to cache something. My hard drive is used as cache for web resources. RAM is used to cache hard drive resources, CPU cache is used to cache RAM resources. This is why I think "cache memory" doesn't mean anything, and why I asked you if you were referring specifically to a CPU cache. If you are referring to the kind of memory used in both CPU cache and in other applications, I think you are referring to SRAM.

 

I got the 1920x1080 screen.
I find it better than the screen on my Z51.
I saw diagonal lines on all the new Z's on display at Sony both in Japan and Hong Kong (less noticable though than the old Z).
The strange thing is I didn't see any on the unit that I recieved...perhaps it develops with time.

 

Here are the complete specs from Sony HK.

http://www.sonystyle.com.hk/ss/product/vaio/vpcz117gg_e.jsp

 

I can answer this after I start using for a bit. Will update you when I have answers.

 

The Z I got comes with the premium carbon. It is not glossy,

 

Can you expand on these diagonal lines on the new Zs? I didn't follow the old Z threads, so not sure what you mean.

 

Wow, mine is expected to be built by mid-April

If you happen to open it up, I'm interested in the amount of space in the SSD slot, I think this will go a little towards answering whether a bare 1.8" SSD can fit in there. Also, a close-up picture of the ribbon for the SSD & DVD will help too...

 

Wait a minute... is RAM a dropout -OR- did he graduate? (you simply can't have it both ways)

 

Please check out this thread:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=400972&highlight=diagonal+lines

 

Dude, chill out. You are creating confrontation where non exists. (and no, he never once mentioned or implied sram)

 

Congrats for your new Z

What would interest me the most (and I think many others here as well) would be the SSDs. As some others already asked, what are the RAID options?
If you have already set up your system and everything, I suppose you don't want to mess around with JBOD to see whether the SSDs support TRIM. I hope we'll find out soon

 

difference between Vista and Win 7?

 

I went into the bios.

VT is turned off be fault.
Also, show raid information is turned off.

I didn't any configuration options for the RAID.
In windows there is something called "Intel Rapid Storage Technology" running in Windows.

Nothing really to configure there even though there is a manage button. It shows that there are 4 discs in a RAID 0 array and there is a fifth slot at the bottom saying "internal empty port 1"