ALL SZ160p/c OWNERS MUST READ THIS!!!!!

If you are like me, you purchased the VGN-SZ160p/c thinking it will have a carbon fibre case. After all, Sony advertised it as a premium model with carbon fibre case, and was glad to take our 2400.00 + premium for the the unit. If your unit has VGN-SZ160P above the left hinge and the lid does not have a cris-crossed weave pattern, then it's plastic. There is another thread on this subject that I don't believe is recieving the attention is should due to the subject line. Please see this thread http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=46357&page=6 This is FALSE ADVERTISING to ninth degree. We all need to get on the phone with Sony's Office of the President and demand a refund or replacement asap. as I stated in the other thread "7 hour battery claim is one thing, but substituting plastic for carbon fiber and charging 500.00 for it is another. I will be demanding a refund or replacement."

 

Let us know if you are able to get Sony to refund/replace. Normally Sony has replacement policy but no return policy. Especially for those who have had the 160 for a month or more thinking it was carbon.

If Sony doesn't correct the problem and someone can prove its not carbon then I'm sure an ambitious lawyer could get a lot of class action clients from these boards.

I suggest people start printing, downloading and taking screen shots of Sony’s advertising as all premiums are supposed to be carbon.

 

Ive heard sony is shoddy..but this takes the cake! I cant believe they charge so much and their machines arent even what they say they are. This has to be a breach of consumer rights. If they dont give in then sue 'em!

 

"I suggest people start printing, downloading and taking screen shots of Sony’s advertising as all premiums are supposed to be carbon."

That's right the member on the other thread said after they contacted Sony about the issue. Sony took all sz160 material off the us and japan web sites. If anyone made copies of the advertising material on sonystyle save it.

 

A couple of months ago, the salesman at Frys told the the SZ160 case was NOT carbon fiber - but I did not beleive him.

I them heard the same comment made by an owner I met at Best Buy a few eeks ago. I thought he was mixing up the 120 and 160 models.

If this is true it is very stange. Why would a compnmay lie about soemthing like this. I still find it hard to believe. Is there any test that will prove the material content?

 

Here's three screengrabs from the Sony.ca website.

All say Carbon Fiber very clearly.

 

Anyone have US advertising?

There are many out there who don’t know what carbon feels or looks like. Sony probably figures they can fool most people and have to deal with the few people that complain loud enough. I still say if this can be proven there is a good cause for a class action lawsuit. Put the advertising & packaging next to the non-carbon models that were shipped. Also point out the 7 hour battery life claims that were prevalent when most people bought (Sony is changing their sites now). It took a class action suit before Apple made good on their battery claims. Up until then Apple tried to buy off each customer for pennies as they complained loud enough. Sony is no different with these tactics of false advertising.

 

Also save the sony box the SZ160P/C came in. The label shows the model VGN-SZ160P/C. Sony used the right box for the carbon model but shipped the VGN-SZ160P plastic model instead

 

:::

Just want to let all of you know, there are other
notebook use Carbon Fiber. All Black colour Lid
Z60t also use Carbon Fiber as standard. The CF
they use are called "CFRP(Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastics)"
But it is hiddened under the paint....!

ThinkPad Z60t 「ThinkPadブラック」モデルのトップカバーでは、
持ち運んで使うことを前提とした強度と軽さをバランスよく両立させるため、
航空機や車のボディーにも採用されている技術ハイブリッドCFRP※を採用。
液晶パネルを守る硬度を保ち、同時にモバイルに適した軽量な構成を実現

※ハイブリッドCFRP(Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastics) ：
2層にした炭素繊維の間に比重の軽い発泡材層を挟み込んだ複合素材​

Details here:
http://www-06.ibm.com/jp/pc/thinkpad/tpz60t/tpz60ta.shtml

Water Test Movie:
水に浮くほど軽いハイブリッドCFRPのトップカバー
ThinkPadの一部製品に使われているABS素材とハイブリッドCFRP使用のトップカバーの軽さを比較した内容などを紹介。


About the real Carbon Fiber SONY, the lid should show
"crisscross weave like" finish. Also, you can test your
CF SONY like IBM by put the CF Lid into water, if it's
real, it will float. If it's shink, it's fake.....! They are
just plastic....! Refund or ask for no charge exchange
for your fake CF SONY.

:::

 

:::

Real CF

:::

 

I spoke to a friend the uses carbon fibers parts extensively in cars. He claims that upon close inspection there is always a pattern - even if very slight

I never inspected the SZ160 case closely - can someone take a very, very close look at the top and bottom of their 160 and report back.

I do know the thin interior frame around the screen felt very plastic.

However, I still cannot beleive that Sony would misrepresent their products. Why would they risk it? It makes no sense to me. Perhaps this is all a misunderstanding.

 

Well, if Sony is using the CFRP(Carbon Fiber Reinforced Plastics) then I guess there is not much that can be done. I for one was expecting the real carbon fiber as pictured above. Even if it is CFRP, the advertising is misleading at best. we still need to find out for sure whether there is any carbon fiber in the lid.

 

When I first looked at Sony's website for the SZ160, I was expecting to see the picture that Talon88 posted as well. When I noticed that the picture wasn't what I expected, I did a little research and found out that the carbon fibre case that was previously posted was called the "Premium Carbon" casing which is only sold in Japan. As far as I can remember, this casing has never actually been advertised in the US. Instead the SZ160 comes with the "Black Carbon" casing. Below is an image I found at dynmasim.com which shows each casing option.

 

Is is possible that "Black Carbon" refers to the color not to the material used?

 

Well, it gets even stranger. If you go here:
http://b2b.sony.com/Solutions/SZ/overview.html
You'll see:
Impressively designed with sleek carbon-fiber or magnesium alloy casing, an ultra-thin widescreen LCD display and an aluminum finish palm rest, SZ Series notebooks naturally enhance your image and present the true quality of your business.

And "carbon-fiber" is a hot link. When you click you'll see this:


So the case described in Knight_mare's photo as "Black Carbon" is called "Carbon-Fiber Casing".

 

The SZ160 **does** have a carbon fiber case, it's just been painted or coated so that the sharp diagonal crisscross pattern visible on the Japanese model is not nearly as visible on the US model.

However if you angle a bright light just right, you can see that the bumps on the softly textured surface of the SZ160 *do* line up into a 45 degree crisscross pattern.

Edit:

If it helps, I've attached a close-up photo of the case on my SZ160. It's kind of hard, but you can see the crisscross pattern, especially near the bottom (look for the "X" arranged grooves in the surface - and if your browser resizes the image be sure to view it full).

So, what will the competition think of next to try and dissuade buyers from the SZ? ;-)

 

I looked at my SZ90 from Dynamism which is advertised as CF. I looked at the cover and initially did not notice the fine lines. I called them and as we discussed it I took an even closer look and THEN noticed very fine grain running at 45 deg angle. Needless to say, we were both relieved.

 

I'm not detaching my lid and dropping it into a bowl of water!

 

QUOTE: "Also, you can test your CF SONY like IBM by put the CF Lid into water, if it's real, it will float. If it's shink, it's fake.....!"

Coincidentally, that is also how you test to see if it's a witch.

 

lmao!

 

well the main reason sony uses carbon fibre is b/c it's strong and light...

i don't know about the sz but the tx has no visible fibres either, but it's much sturdier (and thinner) than the magnesium casing on a protege r100. so if sony managed to make plastic stronger than metal then kudos to them...

it sucks not to have the cool brushed look, sony doesn't sell it in NA possibly b/c the clear coat covering the carbon has a tendency to bubble a problem which plagued the x505

 

Of course, if you don't want to drop it into the water, then since we know that a witch floats, and so does a duck, then we can put the lid on a balance with a duck and find out if it's a witch.

 

That is awefully bad

 

Hey everyone, in regards to the carbon fiber, here's a shot off my car...



The weave is extremely apparent (more so than the picture) if it's only clear-coated, but it can look very smooth if it's painted. I'm not sure how much of the texture would show through if it's painted though - it should be fairly smooth as carbon fiber is a woven fabric that has had a good amount of expoxy injected into it (all my knowledge on the material comes from cars but I do know on the old Ferrari F40s that had carbon fiber bodies, they had such a thin layer of paint applied that the carbon fiber weave was visible through the paint, but it still looked smooth, if that's any help).

Anyway, best of luck to you resolving that.

 

if Carbon fiber is prepared with the minimum resin needed for strength (as it would be in a race car, or something like the F40) it will be very rough. Prepreg is the same way. Auto hoods, dash panels, etc. usually are vacuum bagged with excess resin or coated with a hard coat to give it the smooth texture, though at a cost of extra weight.

of course, most of the "carbon fiber" car stuff you see is extremely fake.

 

Hey guys. You're really getting some attention on this! Link

 

Awefully bad no, Awefully incorrect yes

I based what I said in part on comments from the other thread.

I received this Email from Sony today about my P/C not being a P/C:

"Thank you for contacting Sony Direct Customer Care. In reference to your order# ST0602NNNNNNN, I have spoken with management and your unit is to be a black carbon casing. As you informed me this is not the case and you received a unit with regular black plastic. In this case the unit will have to be returned and reordered due to Sony does not have a exchange policy. I do apologize for the inconvenience and please contact me via e-mail if you wish to do so, so I may provide you will a pre-paid label from FedEx and your return authorization.


Thank you,"


I took Sony's response that there is in fact a regular black plasic lid, and the other poster had recieved it. Given that assumption, it was either the premium carbon or plastic. I was very sure I had not recieved the premium carbon. If Sony could have just explained the difference upfront, it would have saved alot of time and effort. Given the 7 hour battery life claim, why not throw in a plastic lid for carbon fiber.

 

I mean...people just get a 120 its light enough, save 500 and the lid is practically the same...lol

Once again Sony is on the edge...

 

Sure. then we can get back to arguing(at least me) about how ****py the battery life is when compaired to Sony's spec sheet.

 

Are there any photos of the plastic and carbon fiber casing for comparison. The photo on this thread is difficult to see.

I've found my bookmarked page of the original SZ intro on the Sony site: http://products.sel.sony.com/Computers/Notebooks/SZ/sz_intro.html.

Scroll all the way down where it clearly states that the premium models comes with carbon fiber casing.

 

I'm glad we are finally getting down to the truth behind this. I've gotten different responses from Sony store (may have plastic premium), online Sony Tech support (definitely plastic), phone sales (not sure if there is a plastic, think its carbon) and customer service (didn’t even know there was an SZ160P, only knew of SZ160P/C which is carbon). How can 4 different departments all have conflicting information? This kind of bad information (due to lack of internal training) by Sony is what leads people to forums like this for answers.

 

According to the picture posted earlier, there are three lid types: the "Carbon Black", "Premium Carbon" and "Black". I assume "Black" refers to the magnesium alloy lid that comes with the non-premium US models. All US premium models are specified as "Carbon Black".

I don't think "Carbon Black" looks as snazzy as the Japanese "Premium Carbon", but the Sony Style Japan site seems to say they are both carbon fiber. The descriptions are in Japanese, but it looks like it says the "Premium Carbon" has a clear gel coat that shows the carbon fibers and the "Carbon Black" is just matte black. Does this sound right? ( see details of the Japanese translation here)

My impression is that all US models are carbon fiber (i.e. carbon fiber reinforced plastic), but not the ultra-cool "Premium Carbon" available in Japan.

 

I have Carbon Black which is the only Premium Model offered in Hong Kong and the main reason you cant see the weave is because of the dark coating. Its not suprising that Japan made Premium Carbon exclusive because theyre japanese. I have to use quite a strong torch to actually find the weave but yes its there.

 

I was looking at the VGN-SZ17SP/C and the VGN-SZ14P/B
One sales at the store said the 4 differences between the 2 otherwise same laptops was RAM (1GB vs. 512MB), HDD space (80GB vs 60 GB), Batterylife (7 hours vs. 6 hours) and the now discussed about lid.
On the 17SP/C lid, he claimed it was Carbon Fibre 100%, all as per the advertisement. When pressing him, basically saying it was plasic and nothing more, he buckled and admitted to it being "carbon fibre MIX".
I would tend to believe him, since the lid itself has a very different "feel" to it than the rest of the notebook plastic casing. Surface is rougher and tapping it produces a different sound that 100% plasic lids. Not very scientific, but I did what I could.
He could not say the ratio of carbon vs. "other material", but pointed out that it got you weight savings of 160 grams (1.69KG vs 1.85 KG) vs the metallic alloy 14SP/B.
Anyone care to take a stab at the percentage of carbon, based on plastic weight vs carbon weight and overall dimensions of the lid?

Oh, and IMHO, the 160 grams weight savings, little more HDD and RAM, and marginally better battery life does not justify a US$ 500 price premium.
I mean, getting some more RAM does not cost you a lot. Swapping HDD's should be a breeze for the market price difference between the 2. If you can't survive with 6 hours battery life, without finding a powersocket, then you must be in the outback or something.

 

also the technology used in both lids are different. 1 uses a lamp and 1 uses a LED. Ofcourse we should see some brightness differences due to this. Besides a thinner screen looks nicer =p and i like the machine BLACK.

 

well, i'll try to look closely at my lid when i get home to see if i see
any 45-degree angle pattern, but for now i'll just assume i got what
i payed for.

i prefer black to greyish-silver as well.

 

clparr-
Not to off subject but thanks for the links. I just noticed all the notebooks listed from the sz110-180 all have 256mb of dynamic video memory. Why is it I can only see 128mb in my unit?

 

you sure? Cuz it was stated as only 128 for us in HK. For us only FE carried 256 dynamic video memory.

 

If we all know that "Enron", "Fanny Mae", "Nortel" etc. happened, why would we assume that Sony could not happen?

Enronization of Sony?
Misleading Sony stakeholders?
Creative material accounting Sony-wise?

Let me explain in plain terms how Enron happened and then I'll make a hypothesis about how Sony might (or already) happened.
What happened with Enron was that company A "sold" a plant C to company B but company B never used it. Instead, company A continued to use plant C like they never sold it! Creative accounting at its best. It involves two business entities.

Now about Sony hypothesis. The only way to know for sure what is or what is not inside that Sony SZ P/C lid is to conduct physical mass spectrometry in some physical laboratory or institute for materials. Spectrometry will show precisely what compounds and materials comprise this lid and in what percentages.

Once this spectrometry report is obtained and shows there is no carbon in sufficient percentage as advertised (according to ad it is supposed to be 100% carbon), then the next step is visit to a class action lawyer (this is free of charge). Lawyer will determine if there are elements for class action lawsuit. He is paid by the percentage of the total of punitive and other damages of the pool of buyers who were misled by SZ advertising (if he wins in court).
It is not at all impossible to imagine following situation: Sony representing the material costing of the product much higher then it actually is, i.e. company X ships carbon to company Y, company Y puts only small amount of this carbon into its product but it posts much higher amount in its accounting ledger. The difference is "taken away" by executives of both companies, just like in Enron case.

 

Would people PLEASE READ POST #16 before posting in this thread. It seems to me that the majority are not reading past page 1 of the thread before adding their flame to this superfluous discussion that's already been settled by Sunfox.

You're free associating here, take a deep breath.

There's no such thing as "100% carbon". Carbon fiber in structural materials is actually Graphite-reinforced plastic. On its own, carbon fiber is merely a loosely woven fabric. The major component of a "carbon fiber" structural piece is the resin, not the fiber reinforcement.

The only reason people think the Sony lid isn't carbon fiber reinforced is because they're used to decorative carbon fiber that's embedded in a clear resin rather than in black plastic.

Heck... technically, since plastic consists of hydrocarbons, even a plastic lid is "100% carbon".

Sunfox's post #16 clearly shows the underlying weave of the carbon-fiber matting within the Sony resin lid. Fiberglass reinforcement (also commonly used in notebooks) doesn't have the same pattern. It's quite definitely carbon fiber. RELAX.

Yes, that is what we would do if we were both A) idiots and B) evil.

KC

 

You guys are so dumb; just use a sanding machine till you see the threads. Shellac it down. Oven bake at 120 degrees for 5 hours and BAM. Show it off to all your friends.

 

Well, not quite. You are forgetting about all the hydrogens attached the carbons, not to mention there are surely oxygens in there, too.

 

i will assume i got what i paid for, simply because i strongly doubt that
the people who have a plastic lid instead of a carbon-fiber one are any-
thing more than isolated incidents, which are blown up on various sites
and forums at the moment.

=]

 

Neenee- I think you are right, its not a normal carbon fiber that people think about. Its a very fine weave that you have to look and stare to see it.

People who are reading this this thread, if you have a sz with a battery that seems to drain fast, read the other thread on this forum about Battery life or hibernation/standby issues please. I'm sure this isn't an isolated issue.
(sorry for that thread plug)

 

Argument 1: it could be carbon-fiber without weave.
It could, or it could also be just plastic.

Argument 2: it could be carbon-fiber reinforced plastic.
It could, or it could also be just plastic.

Argument 3: you're stupid.
Maybe, or it could be that you are a sony fanboy.

So far, all people has done is argue that it might be this or it might be that. Why is it nobody actually tested it?

 

Just because you cannot see the lines does not mean it's not carbon fibre. It IS carbon fibre and has basically had a coat of paint put on top of it. If you s****e away the layer you can see the carbon fibre underneath. I know this as I have seen this demonstration being done by Sony to show how the chassis was constructed.

 

PS : Sony have a model where you can physically see the weave, that is merely one that hasn't had the extra layer of paint added to it. A lot of people do not like the appearance of the weave on their laptop

 

MORONS!
Thanks to those of you who REALLY KNOW what carbon fiber is!

"Carbon Fiber'" is exactly that...FIBER....basically delicate strains woven into fabric form. The fabric is flexable just like clothing. They apply resin/epoxy to harden/reineforce the carbon fiber...this gives it a high strength/weight ratio.

Traditionally, CF is associated with the weave. 2x2,4x4 twill..etc. but you can PAINT over the CF. I have seen the SZ110 and SZ160. The SZ160 led is MUCH THINNER. Even with plastic you can't get the lid that thin and strong/durable enough to keep the screen from flexing. F1 cars are make of CF. The Mercades Benz SLR is made of CF.

On the Japanese SZ where you can see the "weave", that isn't totally good...becuase usually you are suppose to apply enough resin/epoxy to have a smooth surface. I don't know how well The black/gray/silver of a carbon fiber lid will appeal to excutives...Sony US thought it would be better to keep it back...and apply some texture for some grip?

Personally, alittle CF pattern is nice...but a large area of CF weave is tacky.

CF is hard to take pictures of...because of the weave..it will appear different at different angles. Here are some pictures from a project I did.

 

I think this is plenty reason why we should not buy Sony. Carbon fibre or not.

 

There's now a response by Sony to the Inquirer article:
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31104

Just a short note to say that the confusion seems to be whether the case has a "natural" carbon-fibre finish on it, or a smooth finish. Both cases mentioned are US versions, and are made of carbon-fibre. But one of the models (in Europe it is called the SZ1 VP, limited edition exclusive to Sony Style) has a untreated, natural look where you can see the individual fibres - it is a great effect, and some consumers really love it.

The SZ1-XP model has same material but the case is finished smooth and painted.

We try to be very clear on the Sonystyle.co.uk site about this, and also our telephone agents have samples thay can refer to.