Analysis of New Sony Z (i5) CPU vs. Current Z (C2D) CPU

As an example my Z laptop has the P9500 C2D... but for arguments sake lets say I have a P8600 (same GHz as the new Z's CPU).

Current Z P8600:

Max TDP: 25 W
2 Cores @ 2400 MHz
Fully threaded application on both cores:
2.4Ghz * 4 Ops/Clock * 2 Cores = 19.2 GFLOP
Single threaded application (very common) on ONE core:
2.4Ghz * 4 Ops/Clock * 1 Cores = 9.6 GFLOPS
(GFLOPS is a great baseline on how fast is the CPU rating--giga floating point operations per second)

Sources:
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=35566
http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/cs-023143.htm

The new Z apparently has (at least confirmed so far) an Core i5-520M:

Max TDP: 35 W
2 Cores @ 2400 MHz Turbo (one core Overcloked) @ 2.93 GHz
Fully threaded application on both cores:
2.4 * 4 Ops/Clock * 2 Cores = 19.2 GFLOPS
Single threaded application (very common) on ONE core:
>Uses Turbo: 2.93 * 4 Ops/Clock * 1 Cores = 11.72 GFLOPS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrandale_(microprocessor)

This means the new Z should be 11.72/9.6 = 22% faster. This is almost a sure thing that under most conditions a single threaded app should be 22% faster. An ideal "fully threaded" application would be the same speed on both computers but this is not likely the case for most things you run. The interesting part is the 35W TDP (Thermal Design Power). The higher this the "hotter" the CPU runs which generally means the more power it consumes "at load". This may mean a lower battery life for the new Z -OR- a bigger battery to offset this.

I hope this is helpful to everyone. Is a 22% faster CPU in most conditions worth it to you? If like me you have a P9500 then you will be getting a 16% improvement with the new Z. If you have a P9700 (fastest the low power P series the Z can be built with) the new Z is just under 5% faster. The faster (yet hotter and higher power consuming at 35W TDP) chip for the current Z (T9900) clocks in at 3.06 GHz which is just over 4% faster than the new/future Z with the i5.

The GPU may be very attractive to many people on the new Z. For me I need light weight and small size, a large resolution screen (desktop real estate), long battery life. I almost never use the 9300M mode (always use intel). I have Windows 7 Professional already so the only benefit to me on the new Z is 16% more processing power and potentially less (or doubtfully more) battery life.

MAX Config comparisons:

Per request this is the anticipated peak speed improvements (w/ fastest current and next gen configs). Assumption is the new config will contain at the upper tier the i7-620M.

Single Thread Performance compared (most things run single threaded):
current fastest @35W TDP > T-9900: 3.06*4*1 = 12.24 GFLOPS
next Z fastest @ 35W TDP > i7-620M: 3.33 (turbo)*4*1 = 13.32 GFLOPS
Next gen has 9% more processing power than current Z (CPU) single threaded

Fully Threaded Performance compared (few things run fully/optimally threaded):
current fastest @35W TDP > T-9900: 3.06*4*2 = 24.48 GFLOPS
next Z fastest @ 35W TDP > i7-620M: 2.66*4*2 = 21.28 GFLOPS
Current Z has 15% more processing power then next gen z (CPU) w/ fully threaded
Next

 

Don't forget the still "maybe" factor of a re-design of the laptop.

 

True, but I think that the current Z is sexy enough. I really wont upgrade for looks. I want meat . The CPU (can within same model chip), chipset items and GPU (not really at all) are really the only major upgrades that can not be easily had "after market". Most other items are upgraded for far less... RAM, HDD, items in expansion slots.

For the traveling professional I would gather that our CPU sits at or near zero most the time (load wise). Gamers may be the prime audience to entice to upgrade. My primary computer is a PC that I can upgrade easier and the Z is for the road where games are not what I am using it for. If I did (use games) on my laptop then I would certainly be excited.

 

I don't know if you factored this in, but the integrated memory controller should help mitigate any limitations on memory speeds not to mention bring in faster DDR3 RAM that older models did not have as far as I'm aware. That might or might not matter depending on what you're doing as you said for the GPU. Still something to keep in mind though.

 

Your envy is on its way back to HP?? How come? Are you getting the new Z instead?

 

Was among the first to buy it and got stuck with a bad GPU. After a bad customer service experience I'm back to looking at the new batch of laptops that are going to be announced soon. Might take another look at the envy later if things change/get upgraded.

 

lol, you had a bad customer service experience with them too?

their shoddy CS is what caused me to cancel my order with them a couple of years ago and buy my current SR

i bet they lose a lot of business with that crap

 

I am not sure on the older models, but I have a 590UBB and it DDR3 RAM -- PC3-8500 -- (same as the new/next Z). The integrated memory controller should only save power and motherboard real-estate (I think) -- a good thing but minimal to no "end user" impact. The L2/3 Cache differences between the processors is a crap shoot that will vary on application.

 

Not true ! The current Z can be CTO built with the T9900 processor (3.06GHz).

 

The current Z has had DDR3-1066 RAM ever since it was introduced - in mid-2008.

 

Let me see if I can update my first post. Good call!!

 

Are you certain that the new/next Z has the same DDR3 RAM as the current Z ?

For all we know, it may very well be DDR3-1333 RAM in the new/next Z, while the current version has DDR3-1066. Sony is known to introduce things into the Z that are not available in the other models in their range.

 

the 25w vs 35w arguement isn't a valid as the 35w rating is including the integrated GPU + NB/SB and memory controller while the 25w for the core2's is the CPU only.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,...onsumption-and-HD-video-support-checked/News/

an example of power savings

 

In addition to that, based on a post from a Japanese forum, the new Z could have the following upgradeable specs (including an i7-620M processor), as shown below:

Note: The +5,000, -5,000 and +15,000 etc is in Japanese Yen and thus should be considered accordingly.

[OS] No change
Color / Design No change]
[No change] palm rest
[Processor]
Core i5-430M 2.26GHz, 3MB -5,000
Core i5-520M 2.40GHz, 3MB
Core i5-540M 2.53GHz, 3MB +5,000
Core i7-620M 2.60GHz, 4MB +15,000
[Display + GPU]
WXGA + + (1600x900) + GT 330M (1GB) GPU + Intel HD Graphics + \ 5,000
WXGA (1366x768) + GT 330M (1GB) GPU + Intel HD Graphics
[Memory]
8GB (4GBx2) + \ 20,000
6GB (4GB +2 GB) + \ 10,000
4GB (2GBx2)
[Storage]
About SSD 512GB (256GBx2/RAID 0) + \ 50,000
About SSD 256GB (128GBx2/RAID 0) + \ 15,000
About SSD 128GB (64GBx2/RAID 0)
About HDD 500GB (7200rpm) - \ 20,000
[Drive]
Blu-ray Disc + \ 35,000
DVD Super Multi Drive

No change (counter model) to ¥ 198,000
i5-540M, BD, SSD256GB, Memory 8GB, WiMAX, 1600x900 choice ¥ 29 million

 

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i7-620M-Notebook-Processor.23043.0.html

Keep in mind the i7 620m is not a quad core i7. Also, the newer integrated graphics will be nearly as good as what you'd currently see from an ion (9400m), so nearly as good as what the 9300GS gave you. The biggest upgrade is really the 330m, which is in another league.

 

I agree that the new system could be faster for more $$ with the new CPUs if they have the max version of the chip. I will make a note in the first post to illustrate the "peak" deltas. I was going for a base clock to clock speed comparison previously.

 

Going by historical trend, the new Z might very well have additional performance with the newer CPUs, while the price would be held at the same level as the prior versions.

To sweeten the deal, Sony would introduce some temporary discounts to clear out the current stock, while they are phasing in the new models with the new specs.

 

I updated the first post and added peak performance for old vs. new:

Assumption is the new config will contain at the upper tier the i7-620M.

Single Thread Performance compared (most things run single threaded):
current fastest @35W TDP > T-9900: 3.06*4*1 = 12.24 GFLOPS
next Z fastest @ 35W TDP > i7-620M: 3.33 (turbo)*4*1 = 13.32 GFLOPS
Next gen has 9% more processing power than current Z (CPU) single threaded

Fully Threaded Performance compared (few things run fully/optimally threaded):
current fastest @35W TDP > T-9900: 3.06*4*2 = 24.48 GFLOPS
next Z fastest @ 35W TDP > i7-620M: 2.66*4*2 = 21.28 GFLOPS
Current Z has 15% more processing power then next gen z (CPU) w/ fully threaded
Next

 

uuuhh.... once again, you need to stop using the 25w vs 35w arguement because it's very inaccurate. you're comparing CPU to CPU + GPU + NB/SB + MC. not exactly the same thing, false information on your part.

if you don't want a new Z then don't get one, but don't believe you're brighter than intel engineers

 

So in layman's terms will the new model be faster in all situations?

 

All the TDP stuff really impacts one thing: battery life (and how hot your laptop gets). I am not ignoring it. Yes the new chips have "on board" elements that the current chips do not. I read the technical datasheet for the current chips and there is something like 12Watts TDP for the entire board. That includes the 4500MHD if I understand correctly. So 25W + 12W = 37W which is very close to the 35W of the new chip (and clearly the Motherboard for the new chip will take some power and emit heat). My point is that it is a wash for most circumstances. The new CPU has a faster integrated graphics and more efficient Watts/Op (lower) but the total power and heat is roughly the same. So if more GPU power is not a concern (and battery life is) then there is not a huge concerns on big deltas there.

btw, I am an electrical engineer (insert aerospace company you have heard of) but admittedly am at the mercy of google and intel to find valid data to use .

 

For applications like Video Compression or zipping files it could be slower. Fully threaded though is just a Software Engineers wet dream. It hardly ever happens in the real world. Single threaded is a better head to head comparison.

 

FYI, the GM45 (current z) chipset has a TDP of 7/8 Watts Nominal and 12 Watts Peak. So including the CPU at 25 W TDP (P Series C2D chips) the total sum (32-37 TDP) is nominally less than the 35W of the i5's. This TDP DOES include the 4500MHD. So ideally the entire chipset on the Motherboard, CPU and GPU of the current gen Z series is less than or equal to the new i5. Given the i5 chipset will take "some" power... I would say that unless there is a bigger battery then the current Z will have comparable battery life.

Reference:

http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/datasheet/320122.pdf

 

Also, you cannot compare two different chip types solely by their clock speed.

I mean, you can take an old P4 D 3.2 ghz dual core chip. It will deliver a passmark score of 900. The newer dual core Arrendale chips are "slower" but perform about 5X better.

The i7 and core 2 duo chips use different technology. Youi cannot just look at there clock speeds.

 

There are many minor factors but the big one you are probably thinking of is the "Operations per clock cycle". The GFLOPS # includes that (see math). That is why the old Athlons used to beat Intel Hz to Hz. They computed more Operations per clock.

So in short, the #'s I gave do take the first order of magnitude items into consideration and the benchmarks should confirm this. Smaller items will effect benchmarks but not nearly as much and will certainly vary application to application (L2 cache size is an example). Ops per clock is a simple multiplier on FLOPS (floating point operations per second),

 

I see what you are saying, but I guess we will have to see what the actual benchmarks say.

But in general, the processor is just evolutionary as opposed to the dramatic upgrade in the GPU. So whether the new Z is a must compared to its predecessor really depends on how much you value decent dedicated graphics.

 

I fully agree. I think the GPU will be what drives people to upgrade if anything. The CPU we are nibbling over small % improvements while the GPU is something like 3-4x (3-400%)!!

 

Think we'll see medium voltage processors as soon as 6 months?

 

The CPU can be upgraded, the GPU can not.

 

I guess I meant generation upgrades. Have to stay within socket/chipset. I will update .

 

Yes. These two which in many cases (with turbo) should zip:

25 TDP for both (vs 35 on the others we talked about in this thread):

Core i7-620LM stock: 2000 MHz turbo: 2.8 GHz (on the fly OverClocks one of the two cores)

Core i7-640LM stock: 2133 MHz turbo: 2.93 GHz (on the fly OverClocks one of the two cores)

These both clock 3-500MHz slower than the previous ones discussed but are a fair amount more power efficient.

 

Agreed. All desktop i7 chips are quad core and 8 threads.

But when it comes to the notebook i7s, it could be 2 or 4 cores and 4 or 8-threaded.

The i7-620M in particular, is dual core, 4-threaded and can clock (via turbo) upto 3.33GHz.

 

Note: You are talking about the i7-620LM, which is a different chip from the i7-620M (that could be fitted into the new Z)

To quote from one of the above links:

================
The Core i7-620M should not be mistaken with the similar named but slower low voltage and ultra low voltage chips Core i7-620LM (2.13-2.93 GHZ, 25W) and Core i7-620UM (1.2-2.26 GHz, 18 W).
================

 

I'm gonna be @CES and I was thinking to grab the new Z if it becomes available in the Sony store @Vegas...

However, after some thought I think I will wait for the refreshes with faster Core i5 CPUs...

Right now I have P9700 in my Z, and I don't think this is going to be that much slower than the new Z.... on the other hand, GPU upgrade could be worth the upgrade...

I guess, if I like the design... I'll do what I always did - buy the damn thing

@edit... damn, I see that Core i7-620M will be available as well... I'm sold

 

The availability of the i7-620M chip (in the new Z) is still a bit speculative at this point, but assuming it is available, my next laptop would be a CTO Z with this chip in it.

 

I had originally planned to deck out the current Z to the max via the CTO process (T9900, 8GB RAM, Bluray burner, Windows 7 Ultimate etc) with the only bummer being the sub-par graphics card with the 256MB memory.

But this new Z has solved my angst in spades with the new GPU; and the additional CPU upgrade (along with other possible improvements) is just icing on the cake....

 

I'm guessing that since the newer chips have the integrated graphics and CPU together you will at least be able to upgrade that. But the dedicated graphics will be non-upgradeable.

 

Well... sort of, it is true that you might get some gains by an upgraded GPU+CPU combination from Intel, but those Intel's GPUs are know to suck for anything except 2D+HD Playback...

I is highly unlikely Intel would get close to GT330M anytime soon with their integrated GPUs.

 

Any chance of getting some pics of all three: S, Y and Z. Lots of pics. Thanks.

 

The integrated GPU performance should be close to that of the current dedicated solution. There were some slides in an older topic that showed graphs of the performance.

 

Yeah, sure - I'll do it as soon as I have some time to wander around for non-business purposes

 

THANKS. Please take some at all angles for all 3 (S,Y and Z), especially the keys and ports, just to compare the old Z to the new Z - too see if the key dimensions are the same.

 

Don't know whether such small differences would be really noticable. Anyhow, pictures would indeed be very much appreciated

 

is it me or sony just made a contract with NVIDIA, the new laptop lines are included with nvidia gpu o.o

 

Yes, it does look like they have Nvidia gpus across the board.

 

From Anadtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3705&p=5

With this said, the only reason I see to get the new Z is for the better GPU (both integrated and Nvida). If you do not play games or use the laptop for 3D rendering or video editing then I do not see a reason at all to upgrade.

Shameless pat on the back: This is almost exactly what I predicted based on my first post and subsequent discussion on power usage.

 

Too bad...the new ATI 5000 series do support Direct X-11 and i wonder how much power the Nvidia 330 GT consumes...

 

That is a good point. If the new Nvidia GPU uses more power than the current Nvidia 9300M then battery life may go down (assume the same mAh size battery).

 

I'm afraid of the price now.

 

Thanks for the link....but Clarksfield *is* i7, right ? And obviously one of the expected options for the new Z-series, is going to be i7-620M, which in turn can turbo onto 3.33GHz and is thus faster than even the T9900 (3.06 GHz), right ?

AND

In addition to that, has integrated graphics.

Thus the new Z would be faster, have better performance, consume the same power as before, have an integrated graphics unit and also have an external NVIDIA 1GB Graphics card. What exactly was the pat on the back for ?