Defective Nvidia chipsets in your current Vaio?

Two weeks ago I filed a complaint with the seller of my Vaio. Today I heard back.
They have been in contact with Sony and, no surprise here, they don't acknowledge that the defect is due to faulty manufacturing.
My choice now is that the seller ships my laptop to Sony for a closer look. If they then decide it to be faulty from manufacturing, I'll get it fixed. If not, I'll have to pay for shipping and fault localization.
Not quite sure what to do. Judging from ankoump's post, sending it to Sony will just be a waste of money.

 

This is really unfortunate. I'm not sure what suggestions to give you but no matter what you decide to do in regards to your laptop, I'll still like to wish you good luck.

 

It wont just be a waste of money, providing that they charge you, but also a waste of time. I have being without a pc for almost 3 weeks now until i decided to send it to someone other than sony.(will have news on the repair tomorrow probably)

If you can manage to get them to pick it up without charges, maybe call yourself direct to sony and plead to them also send email with links to this and all other links within this thread, and you might get lucky in which case its worth sending it in. Otherwise since i cant see them fixing it free of charge you will end up having paid the sending costs with an insane quotation. If you think about it, the £700 they asked from me is simply ridiculous and outrageous for a 2 year outdated laptop.

Then again i guess it's a different country, maybe they will be more sensitive. In any case good luck.

 

Good luck!

 

The question is what makes SONY decide whether it's faulty from manufacturing or not? I'm guessing your GPU looks very much like ankoump's and mine and then they're probably going to say that it's wear and tear or whatever their excuse is for not picking up the bill.

If you can get the check up for free, then it helps our cause to give them more confirmed cases (remember Dell only needed to confirm 10 faulty models) and who knows, maybe you'll get lucky with free repairs? Try and bargain for free shipping and inspection and see where it takes you. If you can't get that, then buy a new notebook if you can afford it and hope that you'll get free repairs later and sell one of your laptops then. That's my plan.

Good luck.

 

Well i guess this is the end of my sony years;

The quotation i got for fixing the laptop is considerably lower than sony's but still very high for me to go on with the process. I was quoted £345, about half the price that sony did but i still think that it is not worth paying for. On the contrary i will add on that £500 and go for a hp- hdx16.

What a waste of time.

 

ankoump, I'm really sorry to hear your troubles & not getting a satisfactory response from Sony.

Hate to say it but I do agree with you that at this point, it probably makes sense to just buy a new laptop instead of "foolishly" spending so much money on the repair. As we all know, even a new motherboard replacement may be "risky" because it still contains that same "faulty" GPU. However, if you're going to buy a new laptop, I would suggest that maybe you can sell off parts of that broken laptop (those parts in good working condition of course) & put some of that money towards your purchase of a new laptop. Good luck.

 

SPEEDwithJJ has a good point. As long as you know how to properly pack the more sensitive components - I've seen LCD screens go for a hundred bucks or more on eBay. The hard drive can probably be sold off, too or converted to an external hard drive using an enclosure.

 

And the laptop casing too. Some people do buy them to replace their "scratched up and/or dented" parts... it may not be a lot, but it should get ankoump some money. It is better than having it laying around. Before I forget, there's still the optical drive, wifi card, power adapter, etc...

 

I'm sorry you've had to go through so much trouble, I had something similar with Lenovo. At the moment, I wouldn't blame everything on Sony, though if I were you right now I would hate Sony. But it's more nVidia's problem with their defective manufacturing of this series of chips. Sony wants (or rather needs) to make a profit, I guess? Maybe one day in the future when they (nVidia) end up losing the big lawsuit against them, everyone who has laptops with nVidia GPUs will get a cash refund.

 

I doubt a refund will happen if Nvidia lose that "big" lawsuit because I don't think they are able to take that "hit" as they will most likely go bankrupt too, which doesn't do us consumers any real good. Or am I wrong?

 

I dont blame Sony, I do blame them for poor customer service.

Just got off the phone with their Service Centre(or as they see it - Licence to print money). You know the drill by now, Lines on the bios and windows refusing to boot/Windows booting and working for a few mins before screen goes black and nothing else works. Spoke to their service centre - "Sounds like a graphics, 6 weeks out of warranty, that's going to be expensive [distant sound of rubbing hands together]."

Great, time to talk to Trading Standards and my original vendor. Note to self, never buy a Vaio again. Last laptop purchased 9 years and still works, Sony Vaio 1 year 7 weeks 3 days. £850 well spent.

 

Well - our old Asus failed... My Medion failed a couple of times - but it went back under warranty.

If you want good customer service - I think Medion may be the right choice for you.
Problem? Send it in for warranty service.
(At least in Germany - no guarantee though)

 

Would this apply to you - http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3066&article=laptop+warranty+guide

Has anyone ever tried it? I just found out about this recently.

 

I have a VGN-SZ450N/C and after about 13 months, I can no longer get the Nvidia video card t work. My computer works fine in the Stamina mode, but when I put the switch in Speed, nothing happens. I figure, either the switch no longer works, or the video card may be shot. Any thoughts. I did restore one of my earliest Norton Ghost backups, back when I knew the switch and video card was working fine, and it still does not work, so I assume it is not a software problem.

My computer is now out of warrantee.

I guess it is at least usable in stamina mode with the on board intel video card.

 

+1

I own a FZ21-M. Bought one year and one month ago, no warranty left.
My computer crashed two days ago, exactly the same issue as you guys. Identical to the screens oskarbull1311 posted..
Will call swedish sony tomorrow.

cheers.

 

oskarbull, your screens are by the way identical as to how my computer looks. just so you know..

 

I'm sorry to hear about your machine too. I'm guessing you're Swedish? I don't know about Sweden, but I'm guessing it's a bit like Norway and they'll fix it for free according to consumer laws. And if they do, please ask if they can specify the problem and give you a written statement or detailed repair-rapport.

They'll probably just call it motherboard malfunction or something, but try to make them specify. And sign our petition if you haven't already

Good luck!

Edit: Just saw that you did sign it. Thank you.

 

Exactly, im Swedish and i hope that they will fix it for free, after all it's their responsibility.
I will ask them for that.
Yes i did, good initiative!

I also read your posts about uninstalling the 8400m gt, the thing is i cant do that. My first reaction to the problem was that i should try to format/reinstall, i did that but the second part of the installation process takes part "in windows" and require demanding graphics and will not work. I cannot continiue the installation process in safe mode either. Im stuck in other words..

Will keep you posted on what sony says tomorrow!

 

Hej, Jonas.
Hope you'll have better luck with the swedish Vaio-support than I had.
It will be really exciting to see what they have to say to you.
Maybe I'll try to call them again tomorrow, in a joint effort.

Also, please post some pics on the Vaio-forum. Link below.

 

Some great detective work from the Inquirer guys:

This was the newer G96 chipsets (9400M, 9600M, etc..) Not Sony-specific but a really interesting and descriptive analysis of the problem (with pics).

Anyway, check it out here.

 

sorry to hear that you didn't have any luck. please do call them and refer to this forum and the sony forum thread, so they know that there are others. will post pictures when i get a hold of a camera. also now the vaio-forum is down for maintenance..

what vaio-model do you have by the way?

 

i just got of the phone with the vaio-support. at first a guy just forwarded me to a danish-speaking person, she didn't really understand what i said so i called again.
talked to a guy who said that he couldnt find any info concerning this issue, but that he would check with "their" support and get back to me..
he did say something about that if there were 10 computer with the same issue, he would be able to see that. but by now 10 vaios with this issue must have been reported..

he also did say that a repair would cost me about 8000:- swedish kronor..

 

I had to use a regular Vista-dvd to install and not the VAIO-disc. Then the driver for the GPU isn't included, and you can choose not to have it installed.

They say that they only need 10 confirmed cases, but they choose to "not confirm" cases if that's handy for them. Just calling it motherboard failure or something instead of GPU failure. The whole system stinks, but that's life.

And their repair bill is even more ridiculous than in the U.S. A 1000 dollars? Read somewhere that it costs 150 dollars to repair the motherboard and that nVidia covers half the bill if they admit the faulty GPUs.

Just remember to be polite when you talk to them (although I find that hard). The decision is made a lot higher up than tech-support and the only thing they can do is to register the case.

Also, I'm pretty sure mikper83 has a VGN-FZ11S.

 

Btw. Does anyone know where to send a letter, f.ex. in the U.S.? I've written one and I'm eager to get it off my hands

 

ah ok thanks, will try to get my hands on a regular vista disc.
yeah that's my thought too, because they must have had more than 10 people with this problem.
exactly 1000 dollars, the guy knew exactly how much it costed.

i'm polite i think, i worked at customer service for the biggest phone company in sweden so i don't like angry customers =P
the thing is, how to get in touch with someone higher up? tried to ask but no luck..

im thinking of getting the repair and keep my fingers crossed for a refund later on. but i don't know if im willing to take that chance.
getting a completely new computer seems more "safe" atm.

 

Posted on macrumors.com
http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/10/newest-macbook-pro-nvidia-chips-potentially-faulty/

Newest MacBook Pro NVIDIA Chips Potentially Faulty?
Wednesday December 10, 2008 04:40 AM EST; Category: MacBook Pro
Written by arn


The Inquirer presents evidence that they believe the current 15" MacBook Pro may continue to suffer from faulty graphics chips. NVIDIA previously reported manufacturing defects in July that were later found to affect some MacBook Pros. The issue was thought to have been resolved.

In a seemingly thorough analysis, however, The Inquirer claims that NVIDIA 9600 graphics chips found in an off-the-shelf 15" MacBook Pro also contains similar defects.
So, what does this all mean? It suggests that there are 15-inch Macbook Pros being sold with 'bad bumps', the same materials that brought down so many HP, Dell and Apple parts, both laptop and desktop. For some odd reason, Nvidia really does not want you to know this.

NVIDIA's Mike Hara, however, denied the association and had the following comment:
The GeForce 9600 GPU in the MacBook Pro does not have bad bumps. The material set (combination of underfill and bump) that is being used is similar to the material set that has been shipped in 100s of millions of chipsets by the world's largest semiconductor company."

The article suggests that the problem could be related to the "black screen of death" issue that some MacBook Pro users have seen during gaming sessions.

 

I called vaio-support again this afternoon. Same old. 8000 SEK - 30% for repair. The decision that I wouldn't get a free repair had apparently been taken by Sony in Brussels.

I mentioned that I knew you had called earlier today with the same problem. He didn't know anything about that though. He asked me if I knew the reference number you got.
I also asked him about the "10 computers with the same issue" statement. If they would take this matter more seriously if they had 10 confirmed cases.
According to him they had no such rule.

I asked how big the chance that they would fix the computer for free was, if I ask my seller to ship it to Sony for fault localization. According to the support guy, I had no chance what so ever. He had never heard of a case where Sony had fixed a computer for free, except in cases where they had made an official recall of a model.

My Vaio is a VGN-FZ11S. I'm guessing that's basically the same as yours.

(Om du vill kommunicera lite på svenska istället så är min e-mail och MSN [email protected])

 

This is unfortunate. Really unfortunate..... I'm sorry to read about this....

 

Ok, sorry to hear that didn't get any good news.
Strange that they couldn't see that I also called, customer service should make a note every time they talk to someone. Called three times today, you would think that someone should have made a note about that..
Seems like each person you get to talk to say different things, wonder how a problem would get som more serious attention?
I didn't get a reference number, will ask for this the next time.


It seems like the best alternative is to just wait and see if sony will change their mind and take this issue seriously, continue to call them, and maybe also post in the vaio-forum (ex. club.vaio.sony.se/clubvaio/se/sv/forum/viewthread?thread=55888&offset=30)

It seems ridiculous to pay 8000 sek for repair when you (almost?) can get a better computer for the same money.

My vaio is a VGN-FZ21M

By the way, do you think it's any idea at all to talk to the store where i bought the laptop, I guess that's what you did right?

(kommer kontakta dig på msn eller via email, kan vara en god idé med en samlad ansträngning)

 

I sent the author of the articles in the Inquirer a question about SONY and he replied right away. I'm just posting it here to add some info.


Re: [inq] nVidia faulty GPUs also with SONY
Charlie Demerjian

NV has told me that every major OEM has problems, and they listed 10 as the number. They would not say which ones they are, but there are only really 10 laptop makers....

I will look into this, and I know they are bad, but I can't prove it. If you find anything, let me know, and I will post a story about it.

If you want to do something, call a lawyer. Really. There are several class actions against NV right now over this, they would love to add sony to the list.

[email protected] wrote:


Dear Charlie,

Hi, First, I love that you're trying to bring this issue into the light. Companies the size of nVidia seem to be able to hide mistakes like this too easily and the consumers are stuck with the bill. Some of the nVidia GPUs in SONY's VAIO-models have the same problem with faulty chips. The warranty just started running out a couple of months ago and I've already collected 29 signatures of people with a faulty nVidia GPU in a VAIO, and a I get one new signature a day in average. (here: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/vaioproblem/). The thread here, http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=268277, so far contains 48 pages about this specific issue with the VAIOs. SONY keeps denying that this is a known issue (saying that less than 10 people have reported this), although I've talked to about 20 different people with the exact same problem. This seems like a shot in the dark, but if you need angry costumers with VAIOs with GPU-failure, our forum mentioned above is definitely the place to go.

Best regards, Oskar Bull-Hansen

 

Would the 9300 be exempt from this condition then?

I would try for a laptop equipped with a ATI chip but I use Linux and that might be more problematic.

I would like a discrete graphics chip (ATI or Nvidia) since those laptops often include a HDMI or DVI port. Some have the hybrid as they also include the integrated Intel graphics chip.

Would the 9400/9600 series problem apply to the rest of the Nvidia line in other laptop manufacturers? What about the 9300/9400 in HP?

 

I have the ATI 3470 and I haven't had any problems with it on Ubuntu using ATI's proprietary drivers. Then again, I rarely game on Linux, so I haven't exactly stressed it either.

Right now, based on the inquirer's tests, it looks like the 9400 doesn't suffer from the problem of bad bumps and should be a relatively safe buy. But it's a new GPU while the 9300/9600 are older and more suspect (for example, they found bad bumps on the 9600).

 

Sony Vaios have discrete NVIDIA 9300M graphics cards (along with the Intel X4500 series hybrid) so the question is, what is the probability that these Nvidia 9300M chips are inflicted with the 'bad bumps?' I had the impression that the 9600 series are more susceptible or risky to have it.

I was comparing to other similar laptops (specs wise) and the HP dv5 series has the 9200M so it might be safe? Some of them have the 9600M so that might be taking a large risk of getting the bump? If you want the Centrino 2 version (for Canadians, anyway), you have no choice for video chip, you will get the 9600M GT.

 

I honestly wonder if the cards like the 8600/9600 are more susceptible because people who buy them tend to be gamers who just stress/use the cards a lot more than someone who'd go for a 9300 (and would fall into a more casual gamer profile at best). It all depends on usage patterns. For example, I've only seen one forum complaint about the SZ's 8400 failing vs lots of reports of the FZ failing, and that's likely because the hybrid graphics definitely extend the life of the discrete card.

 

Good point. But, isn't there a lot of complaints about the 8400/8600 from Dell XPS owners?

Also, I think the report about the bad bump in the particular Nvidia chips is mostly about the extra amount of lead content or in other words, way out of proportion compared to the tin amount. I guess the gaming increases heat/power which puts stress on it that the extra lead then melts or something? I'm not 100% certain. But, yeah, your speculation makes sense.

Which laptops (Sonys?) have the ATI chip? I was mostly considering the Z and newer SR series. I think both have Nvidia chips. I probably won't be stressing the video chip/card much with intensive gaming anyway so maybe the problem wouldn't apply to me as well. But, still, if the defect is a result of choosing inferior components, bad design (due to cutting corners) and shoddy workmanship, it might not matter if you game?

 

SR Ati or integrated, Z NVidia and Integrated.

I think it was different expansion of lead/tin that lead to connections breaking.

 

Not so much the different expansion of the lead/tin bumps themselves as it is with the different expanstion of them AND the surrounding medium. For the specific details here is an EXCELLENT series of articles with very specific detail.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/378/1004378/why-nvidia-chips-defective

Gary

 

I know that the following I'm going to comment on will not happen in the US and/or Europe but it can happen in other parts of the world.

Furthermore, it is a norm for companies these days to outsource (even Nvidia are outsourcing the manufacturing of GPUs to other companies). Given that the parts to any laptops are made all over the world (especially in Asia these days) & a common thinking among some "evil" businessman that "if I make products that last, who is going to buy the products that my company is making, especially my annual new models?" & you can speculate the result yourself......

I mean... have anyone of you seriously wonder why most things these days don't last as long as its predecessors?

 

Hmm... if you want something that lasts... I think I can name only two items at the moment - Montblancs and Swiss watches (ups - forgot, there are some excellent German watches too (Lange & Söhne))

But yes, it is true, things are no longer made to last...
They have to break so they have to be replaced - no matter if you want or not...

 

That was interesting, good job contacting him. If he want pictures etc. of our strange startup-screens anything similar that could easely be arranged.

No more news on my part though, still waiting for Sony to give me a call, will call them later today if I don't hear from them.

 

Nvidia 9600 is said to be affected, 9300 is ok.
http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/12/09/macbook.pro.nvidia.risk/

 

If you want to use me as a reference in some way my number with the support is 3556231.

 

Thanks, good to know.
Will post my case-number if I get one.

I didn't get a call from Sony today and I didn't get around to call them myself either, just so you know.

Something strange has happened, i was booting and rebooting my computer to get a good photo of the artifacts, lines etc. when suddenly I noticed that the lines had dissapeared after my latest reboot. I continued with the boot and it went all the way into windows (first time since crash), and now the computer works again without any strange things on screen what so ever.
I concider this very strange, that after like 30 boot attempts things work again.
Don't know if I can depend on the computer at all, I'm monitoring the GPU temperature and it's around 70C..

 

Sorry, I doubt it's perminant solution.

I have the same prob, right down to the simalar pics on Club Vaio.

My Vaio allowed me 4 boots, at random times. Then it would die afew mins after booting with simalar graphics problems. I did however use those boots to get my data off.

My vaio is with the shop i brought it from being looked at. They are being alot more helpful than Sony, may be an idea if you brought it from a shop to go in and say Hi.

 

Thanks for that link! That helps a lot in terms of considering a Sony Z540CTO/Z590CTO.

I just wonder if they're overpiced, though.

I'm reading about other alternatives, from Sager, Clevo, System76, eurocom, exoticPC and others which offer similar specs but including a higher level GPU, namely the 9800 series. Is that Nvidia GPU effected? I would assume it is because it seems the more powerful Nvidia chips are afflicted since the manufacturers of the chips were probably trying to cut (cost) corners when making the more advanced laptops?

Any thoughts there?

The other advantage for choosing Sony (at least for me), is that it is convenient for me. There's a Sony Style store nearby and there are no extra charges to worry about (so no import/customs/duties charges to worry about). If the other 'no-name' laptop manufacturers didn't require import/customs charges, I would probably be leaning towards one of those.

 

I did not read this thread for a couple of months now and did it today - wanted to see if there is anything new on this field.

So far my question stands, is there anything official fro Nvidia about this problem, because if its not, we cannot talk about it honestly. If there would be anything wrong they would admit it, otherwise lawsuits would be really high!

 

Why would there be anything official yet? It's typical of companies to wait until the situation worsens (or they're caught and the PR becomes too serious) before they admit anything. Until then, it's deny, deny, deny... That's my perspective, anyway.

 

Sony recalled TZ serie after just a few accidents people had!

This thing with nvidia is now about half a year old, and its all over the place, everybody are talking about it, writing about it, everybody havig problems...

Remember cars? Many manufacturers recalled cars, etc...why would nvidia act different if the problem is really this big?

Anyhow..the question to that guy that is having a problem. Why is this not an issue for warranty? If computer does not boot, you return it, and they cannot said its your own fault, because how could anybody gain access to GPU and broke it?

 

I don't see it that way. In my opinion it's obvious something is wrong, Dell has already admitted it for example.