Hello, Sony, Are You Paying Attention To Apple?

New Macbook Pro has 2880 x 1800 15.4 inch display, i7 processor and 768 GB of flash memory. Apple MacBook Pro with Retina Display Overview & Specs - Laptops - CNET Reviews

Sony, what can you offer me?

 

At £2,700 for it, no thanks.

I'm happy with my 13" 1080p quad core i7 Vaio Z for £1,000.

The new macbook pro is a niche market, so I don't think Sony will loss out by not offering something similar.

 

For $2199 base price and a Nvidia GT 650M GPU? Laugh.

 

It's not £2700, it starts at £1799.

I'm waiting for the 13" version which was not announced. Maybe in the next refresh the 13" will appear, or Q1 2013.

 

The model OP listed with 768GB SSD can only be upgraded on the 512GB £2,700 model, add the £400 for the 768 GB ssd upgrade, you get the total of £2,698.99.

I was thinking cancelling my Viao Z order for the base new macbook pro, but 13” 1080p screen is already at 170 dpi which is 22% less the 220 dpi of the new macbook pro. Beside, at home or office I prefer use the laptop with 24” monitor than looking at 15” laptop screen.

 

Funny, I was thinking the other way around when I read the new Apple line-up this afternoon.

"Hello, Apple, Are You Paying Attention to Sony?"

 

In US dollars, the 768 GB model costs $3,300. Screens sounds fantastic, but not at three times the price of my laptop (or for that matter a Vaio SE which weighs the same and has a 1080p screen).

Now if only the Vaio SE could fix its red-orange issue, I think it could make a good sell of itself as the reasonably-priced alternative to the MBP 15. It's already at the new MBP 15's weight (4.4 lbs), despite retaining an optical drive.

 

What I don't like about the new display is that the work area is still equivalent to 1440x900, but with more detail.

Personally, I prefer the 1920x1080 work area of my current VAIO. I guess I'll have to wait for 3840x2160 displays

 

I would short Apple shares if I were an investor. The mass market is not going to buy a Macbook for $2200 no matter how amazing it is. The rest of their updates were quite boring.

And if you get this new Macbook, just try to use Windows on it and see for your self how good Windows is at scaling....

 

Everything is being scaled up anyways on the new MBP, so its still effectively 1440x900, but sharper. The SE/SVS15 has more screen realestate despite the lower resolution, weighs the same, and has an optical drive. And costs like a third as much.

 

Uhh... the 17" macs were always around that price and people still bought (fanboys will be fanboys... same here with the Vaio Z). $2200 isn't bad considering a Vaio Z costs about that price without 256GB SSD and only a 1080p screen. For once, I daresay Apple (at least in America) quite possibly has the better value... not to mention the macbook also comes with a quad-core at its base price. Sony should've seen it coming

Oh and I know about 10 people who want to buy it... and it's not like apple got rid of their MBPs or MBAs... in fact all they did was cater to the high-end crowd while LOWERING the price of their regular line-up so I'm sure they'd do fine. Think.

I just configured a US Vaio Z to the base model of the new MBP... I came out with $2250 w/ only a 1080p screen vs a 2880x1800 and a much weaker GPU (6650m vs a 650m)

Unless you bootcamp, windows should treat it as 2880x1800 and they say diablo III has been adapted for the new res, so I wonder if that runs at native 2880x1800

 

having just bought the z3 I think the mbp is much better value and a solid performance step fwd. Personally I don't care about the cost, I just want quality components. For me, I hate OSX, and bootcamp really isn't quiet the same, so this is a no go for me.

On the other hand, sony *go out of their way* to fk you with their a) software updates b) modify the ram so the user cannot replace c) ssd is questionable but accepted.

I bought the Z simply because I can maintain it all myself, no lockins with sony software under any OS.

That's what I heard also - you know everyone is going to be ' looks amazing'...but I think the fps is going to be questionable until the GPUs get better. They're asking them to do 4x as much now right.

 

The one thing I wish was that Sony could stick a 650m into their S 15"...
If Apple can do it, then surely Sony can...
But they didn't.
/sadface

 

How can you guys seriously compare a 15" MBP to the Z? MBP is 15" and twice the weight. Now if they had added retina display to a 13" model you could compare....but really????

 

- screen
- available memory
- lightpeak/tb port that isn't gimped to 1 device
- external gpu that isn't gimped

There's a few sony products that are great - Z is one of them, kinda of, but really there's not much they do well these days. Their tech side will turn into Nokia, RIM etc.

 

Yeah that's one problem... I wouldn't mind a 2560x1600 panel in a gaming laptop like a clevo/sager though.

Well, I also doubt the MBP's ability to handle the extra heat... I mean they made it thinner and added a more powerful gpu... and a Nvidia one at that...

 

These were the same immediate reactions I had to the MBP "retina" announcement! Sure, screen and even gpu aside, the new MBP 15 is a finer design, better built and likely uses many superior quality components, but if LG can lick that red=orange issue on the 15" IPS, a 2012 SE with a fast 512GB SATA III SSD added will, at around $1,500 compete well with the $2,800 MBP's performance, features and portability.

Sure, we all wish Sony would "man up" and get it ALL right, not just their usual 80% - 90%, but the fact remains that the entire WWDC Mac Hoopla amounts to little more than the most minimal IB refreshes across the board and one "halo model" to grab headlines and bring people into Apple stores to oogle, and possibly buy a lesser MBP after inhaling the ether in the store long enough.

You can all go back to what you were doing/thinking yesterday. Nothing new here - with Sony or with Apple - except that the former benefits from increasingly lowered expectations that it seems to be exceeding with the new S and SE, while the latter has set the new product expectation bar sky high and has failed to do anything remotely exceptional since, arguably, the 2011 MBA 13 or the iPad 2. IMO, today's Apple announcements can be summed up as: "absolutely nothing new except IB-for-SB transplants and the illusion that the industry has been transformed because a ridiculously unaffordable and impractical laptop has been created using Samsung's and/or Sharp's display prowess and $50 million invested in industrial engineering, design an materials analysis to create a museum piece to add to Jonny Ive's collection. Oh, yeah, and they kicked Google in the shins by cobbling together a map offering that is a little better and a little worse and mostly a waste of time and energy "inventing" a product that already existed.

Forgive me the indulgence in the smug feeling of superiority that comes from exposing the Emperor's new, er, PR event.

 

And then it becomes uselessly high resolution. Windows doesn't really scale well for hi dpi yet. 8 will fix that though. Then it will have the same problem as Mac OS X.

Why compare it to the Z? The Z is 2.5lbs 13 inch ultraportable. There is very little in common between it and the new MBP.

Apple has nothing close to a Z competitor. Maybe if the 13 inch MBP got the new MBP treatment.

 

Should be fine. nVidia's 28nm lineup is a LOT better vs everything else out there, right now. Especially since AMD's mobile 28nm GPUs are nearly nonexistant. But if you want to use the past, then we should always associate Sony with bad projector bulbs . I mean, my LCD might go out because of such an unrelated event.

It has a 1920x1080 "effective area" scaling option (along with a few others). Since it's on the OSX ecosystem, most of the programs actually scale properly, lol...

 

this thing is simply beautiful...
Apple - Introducing MacBook Pro with Retina display - YouTube

 

I have to agree with @lovelaptops. nothing new here. The new mbp is the same boring design and os x is a nightmare to use in my line of work (for me anyway). I've never felt comfortable using a macbook as I've felt them to be overthought and overdesigned (one button mouse e.t.c).

In any case I think it's a mistake to pay too much attention to Apple. Microsoft is doing this with windows 8 and we could be witnessing the undoing of the windows dynasty as a result imho.

 

I never understood why people get hard ons for "zomg larger screen"

also, it still looks terrible, with no exciting features what so ever.

 

Cramming all of this is a nice engineering success, but no removable battery, none user replaceable hdd/ssd, and price is what kills it for me. The base model is around 2300 canadian which is sans tax, and about 2500 with tax, ouch.

Fully decked out, it comes to a staggering 3800 add tax, and might as well sell a kidney.

I worry how much these will cost in Poland, or if they will be even offered here

Will be interesting to see how the machine will handle heat.

 

Looks like it is either the Z, SVZ or w110er for me. Not impressed with the MPB 13 proposition. The 15 is too big and expensive for me.

 

Bit late now. Windows 8 is a calamity. Mountain Lion on the other hand looks to tweak and add new features to an already solid OS. But as great as OS X is for the consumer market, it's simply not geared to business. Speaking of business, I can't see many IT Admins 'upgrading' to Windows 8 in a hurry, unless they are totally unprofessional or on crack.

 

So the Retina display is effectively 4 times transistors etc. to serve that many pixels. That makes laptop more power hungry. Apple compensated for that by offering 95Wh battery vs. 77Wh in the rest of MBP line. Still, the Retina version is significantly lighter than the rest. What did Apple cut? Is Retina MBP flimsier? Is cooling system cut down?

Although I can handle 1080p on 13", it's hard. I consider 1080p optimal on 15" and any more resolution on it is a waste. Any less is a waste too.

I've seen black, white, and contrast comparisons of Retina against other laptops on the market, but not to Z. And we don't know the color gamut of the Retina display and how much color cast is there.

 

Yes! I've seen that a few minutes ago on Anandtech. Instead of usual resolutions, the new mbpro allows you to choose between different "detail" settings, one of them with an interface size equivalent to a 1920x1200 screen:

AnandTech - MacBook Pro Retina Display Analysis

 

If they're going to underclock the Macbook's i7 into oblivion, why even put it in there?

Also, I'm guessing that Apple costumers fear that something's wrong, if the pricetag isn't tripled?

 

IT admins love Windows 8 - Hyper-V in a PC environment, including laptops.

It is not very difficult to ignore the Metro UI. Without employing ANY hacks, just adding a simple desktop application to startup (eg. task manager) causes the OS to switch to the destop UI automatically on bootup.

There are a host of keyboard shortcuts to help you navigate to various sections of the innards of the OS. Windows 8 Keyboard Shortcuts lists several of them.

Create a new toolbar pointing to the programs folder (C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs) and you can access your programs menu almost like before, but I'm getting to like the option to pin an application to the Metro start screen - then, while in desktop mode, I can simply press the Windows key to show the Metro start page, click the application I want to launch, and I'm back in desktop mode automatically.

We have all moaned about unfamiliar changes in every new OS. Takes a bit of getting used to, sure, but that is to be expected. If you make up your mind to dislike something, you will undoubtedly succeed. On the other hand, if you put in a little effort and give yourself a chance to get used to the new OS, you might find it well worth your while.

 

Agree 100%. On a 13" I want 900p, either 1600 or 1440 would do.

Take a look at Anandtech's early review. The last picture of the new 15" Pro, does the screen look warm? It sure looks like it has great contrast though. And I do prefer a bit warmer tone instead of whites that are borderline blue.

 

The idea isn't "larger screen" per se, but HIGHER resolution screens... those are what gives us hard ons especially if you're hanging around the Sony notebook forum is crazy high resolution. If apple can get 2880x1800 in a 15.4", then 2560x1440 in a 13" doesnt seem so far fetched.

In other news, I think imma have to grab myself a Sager 9130, just more bang for the buck + a 95% gamut panel and since I'm a student and all my projects are group, it's gotten to be a little of a pain programming on a 13" 900p panel, but I'll be back

 

semantics, you knew what I meant
My point stands.
Wake me up when they actually come up with useful new technology instead of the same old horse manure

 

They cut the optical drive and thinned out the case by 0.2".

 

About the retina power consumption, I'm pretty sure the problems relating to it will go away by the next generation, unless Sharp misses their deadlines again.

 

Naked ssd also weight much less than mechanical 2.5" hard drive.

 

Not to be entirely redundant with my earlier post [about the "Retina" MBP 15 and other "blockbuster" product announcements from the WWDC,] but it looks to me like the more things change the more they stay the same. I'm actually quite relieved in a way. I truly fear the consequences of further increases in market dominance and the sheer monster size and financial muscle Apple has already achieved.

If they chose to, Apple could have cut prices rather dramatically and made significant improvements to the entire MBP and MBA product lines, and pretty much blown away the best of breed 2nd gen Ultrabooks (eg, Asus Zenbook 21A and 31A), and rendered all competing high end laptops (including the likes of Sony's S and Z lines) entirely out of the running with products that were equal or superior in performance, features, design and quality...all the while undercutting the aforementioned no longer competitive offerings by as much as 20%. And in this scenario, Apple would still mint profits by the vault-fuls while doubling, tripling market share! They could really have done this - and still could down the line - and it could really lead to the virtual decimation of the rest of the mobile computing industry. Here's how:

What I'm describing is the classic behavior of a monopolist and it's what happens next that is the truly scary scenario: with untouchable financial muscle, virtually total control of suppliers and market dominance akin to their present " ownership" of the tablet segment, but in every market segment they chose put in their crosshairs, they start cutting back on R&D, skimping on quality, [further] limiting consumer choice, but the majority of consumers (and don't think they couldn't do the same thing in the enterprise space if they set their mind and checkbook to it) completely addicted to their "ecosystem," they become the equivalent of General Motors in the U.S. in the 1970s but there's no one left standing to fill the void the way the Japanese car makers did in that era.

Ok, so maybe I've gotten a little carried away with paranoia, but the truly scary part is that what I've described would go down in Harvard Business School case lore as a brilliantly executed strategy to turn a company worth $600 billion today into one worth $1.5 trillion in less than five years and worst of all, as long as they kept their overall market share under, say, 60%, they would be largely untouchable by U.S. and likely EU antitrust laws.

So yeah, the OP of this thread has really nailed it. And I'm happy to say that Sony appears to be stepping up, and it seems like the new SVS13 could be a true MBP13-killer, and the SVS15 could hold it's own vs. the mighty flagship "Retina" MBP15 by bumping up it's gpu from the nVidia 640 to the 650 and by restoring the color red to the otherwise excellent 15" IPS display and what you'd have is a product pretty darn close to parity (cpu, gpu, weight, close enough display) the 15" "Retina," for about 35% lower price. Apple has even left the bar low enough for Asus, Dell and HP fill in with infinitely customizable products that, with Sony's leadership (pinch me, this must be a dream!), could undercut Apple's entire MacBook line and set it back to where it was in 2009, with a small suite of seriously overpriced products offering limited choices and near zero customization capability. Could it be that we'll see a thread in MacRumours entitled: Hello, Apple, Are You Paying Attention to Sony, Asus, HP and Dell?!!!

As ever, thanks for indulging my flight of fancy here. I promise to edit this way back tomorrow morning, with a good night's sleep to bring me closer to earth. For now though, I'm really interested in knowing if people think I'm smoking something, or does my thesis have any credibility?

 

I agree with your paranoia of Apple taking over the industry, they make such large margins and have such bargaining power (buying out all NAND flash for years for dirt cheap). However, I think Apple would not reduce the price of their MBP/MBAs too much in order to maintain the guise of high-quality. It's like those "un/de-branded" monitors they sell on newegg which are essentially refurb HP monitors with their logos taken off. However, I could see Apple improving the specs of their MBA/MBP lines but keeping the price stationary, which, for most people I know leaves the MBA/MBP out o their reaches.

I could see Apple re-introducing the MacBook line... but the plastic isn't too nice, although if they made a full polycarbonate body like the Nokia Lumias/N9... In any case, I also agree with you LoveLaptops, Apple does have the ability to take over.

 

You know lovelaptops, the problem with your reasoning is just minor, they are in what market they want to be. And that market is the higher priced one.

they dont want to exclude competition based on price, actually what they are designing right now they are already making people catch up already as it is.

What I mean by catching up?

Basically they have created a case that was on the market for a long time, being a good design in terms of form and function, and that is what a good design means anyway.

Yes, the metal chassis has its drawbacks as we already know, I have owned briefily a HP envy 15 1st gen, that was a great laptop, with a high price point that was made to compete with the MBP, while still raising the bar (sincerely I loved it, and liked the design ideas on it), however I have returned the machine, due to terrible keyboard, terrible touchpad, and its was a heater.

The current envy line up is playing catch in terms of design to a case that has been for 4 years already, and was due to a redesign.

The MBA was a dream machine on paper when it was out, now its a great machine with competitive specs on a high price market.

They dont want to be monopoly, they never will be a monopoly. They gain MUCH MORE by leading some market trends, and becoming more and more desire for their products and design solutions, and you can do this in several ways one of the ways is what I just described, the envy line with its heavy design cues.

Now regarding the ''control'' of the suppliers... to have rules and demands over their suppliers is common thing in the industry, not in the pc segment, but in all the segments.

By getting a more controlled approach to what you receive and when you receive is essential to our model of production. there is absolutely NOTHING WRONG with it.

By getting years ago freight agreements and some other beneficial things made then, in part, what they are now.

Sincerely I can only say that they are a company that knows what they are doing (as of late), they have great managment (which sony absolutely lacks), they know their brand and know how to strengthen it, the terrible thing that i can say is their sueing trend that they have entered heavily.

 

Doesn't the monopolist usually stifle innovation?

Why, then, does Apple lead the computing and smart phone industries?

Macs aren't for me (though I do, reluctantly, own an iphone) but Apple is pushing the envelope forward every time and the PC manufacturers are scrambling to catch up (to our benefit).

 

"Lead" in what sense? They have built an ecosystem which is hard to leave and a brand loyalty which has virtually never been seen before.

Sure they have innovations, but they aren't giving their customers the best. Every release seems to be "just" enough for them to attract attention and/or render a previous model "obsolete" so that their followers have to again purchase the item.

For example, all I remember from the 4S release was "Siri" which wouldn't be released to the iPhone 4.

In this new MBP, it's the retina display, but read the reviews about upscaled apps looking very poor on the display.

And for the longest time, the 15" only had a 1440x900 panel which is less than the Vaio Z's pixel count.

If you want leading laptop, look at the Vaio Z, hands-down the most powerful and portable laptop. This MBP w/ Retina Display is much heavier than the Z, and to me, that makes it not portable, which means I'd rather get a cheaper Sager/Clevo w/ MUCH more firepower.

Iphone 4S: only dual-core cpu (i'll give them the best GPU), 3.5" screen... vs a quad-core tegra 3 or exynos CPU w/ a larger 720p screen.

Apple has a great marketing department, and that's their greatest strength, but their focus is their bottom line.

 

Apple has no interest in dominating market share. Their laptop/desktop market share is about 10-15%. Like Porsche, they're a profit-margin-oriented company, not a market-share-oriented company. (By contrast, GM and HP are market-share-oriented, and I think are leaders in market share for cars and computers respectively).

Most people buy computers (desktops and laptops) that cost well under $1000. Most people buy cars that cost well under $40,000. Apple and Porsche don't offer anything in these mainstream markets. That's the surest way of knowing that they're not even trying in the market-share race.

 

Indeed there is absolutely no tell that they are doing anything regarding changing their strategy, they are focused on the premium high paying market not your run of the mill less than 1k pcs.

its the same strategy for every single device.

Another thing that they really shine is that in the creation of the ecosystem they really paid attention about the integration of the said ecosystem.

If you have an apple tv you can connect wirelessly with your notebook to play films on your tv, and the list of possibilities goes on.

This monopoly talk is unfounded, simple as that.

And monopoly can or cannot drive inovation, it depends on the entry barrier for the said market. Oil industry is an oligopoly, but to dismantle that you have to break the heavy R&D entry price, the research to extract oil from the pre salt here in brazil is astronomical, but well worth in the current and future oil prices. Energy production is a monopoly, inherently, due to the heavy R&D price, this is actually changing with more affordable alternatives, and cleaner as well.

 

IPhone ushered in the smartphone revolution

IMac changed the ways PCs were viewed.

Unibody Macbooks changed the way laptops were viewed

MBA changed the way portables were viewed (is every PC an ultrabook 3 years later?)

Marketing helped but design helped more.

 

You forgot the iPod and iPad...

I agree with your point. But, it's not the first time those things were done, they were just the first to successfully commercialize those innovations which drove others to copy the execution. Sure, they had some innovations, but I just think their claim to fame is their execution and it's always flawless.

 

I agree that you can compare Apple and Porsche in the sense that they're only trying to reach a very specific market.
But correct me if I'm wrong: Doesn't Porsche offer cars with extreme performance over 'normal' cars?

 

No, excellent marketing does not equal technological or design leadership.

Revolution was earlier with Palm Treo and Blackberry. Those were smartphones indeed. Smartphone is a phone with smarts, not a multimedia entertainment center with phone circuits attached.

iPod was a big one everywhere (except South Korea), even though not something new either. And it's definitely in the mass market. So there at least Apple definitely did not target high-end. Probably because at the time it could not be picky about ways to earn money.

Anyone remember "revolution" times when Sony was adding high quality music player, high resolution screen, camera, jog-wheel to PDA? Innovation in practically every model, which they pushed out regularly to the market. Did Apple ever do anything comparable?

How about jog-wheel on a Sony laptop? I had that model. Now HP, I believe, added something similar to theirs. A decade later, no less. Sony's x505 is what MBA copied conceptually. Again, a few years later than original.

 

Exactly ZugZug!

It wasn't just marketing though, as obnoxious a toad Steve jobs was, he did have his cult of personality following.

 

I picked one up on Wednesday as I am waiting for my Z3 to ship. If Apple can shrink this down into a 13", I have a strong feeling that it will be one of the best laptops ever.

I actually contemplated cancelling my Z3 order, but it's still a 15" footprint, no matter how much lipstick they put on it. :/

As for the screen, it's personally the best laptop screen I have ever seen. Perfect colors and viewing angles. Although, the viewing angles are so good, that a privacy filter is a must.

 

Im still waiting on those gaming figures be sure to post on macrumors!

 

Why is it that Apple is the only one still doing 16x10 where every one else gave up to the TV standard (16x9). There is no indications that any Windows OEM is considring a high DPI laptop in the 15" footprint. I like the Z (I have a Z1), but would love to see a Windows equivalent of the MBPR. The Vaio S15 is close, but seeing the Z extend to the 15" foot print (keeping the dpi number and the build quality) would create some competition to Apple. I had many 1920x1200 15.4" Windows laptop and am now very close to jump to the Apple side. So much legacy that bootcamp support is a must but you get the picture. If Sony did a MBPR like in a 15" form factor I would probably buy it. And please don't make a laptop that dies when AC power goes out (case of a Z2/Z3 connected to a PMD loosing power). If there is a dGPU it has to be in the main unit, not separated.