I bought a Z-11 refurb; good move or...NOT?

I got mine yesterday too! Only thing I can see is some minor blemishes on the lid under some certain light!!

 

Thanks, but bad news: the Z11 doesn't have the setting VESAutodimmer Seems like I'm left with tape over the sensor, unless anyone has another idea.

 

Install the newest release of sony setting utils, vaio shared etc. This will create the reg keys you need to fiddle around with.

 

I got in on this deal but looks like I didn't get so lucky. Laptop looks in pristine condition but the screen has streaks of discolored pixels on the left side. Looks like this wasn't fixed at all in the refurbishment and I doubt it happened during shipping. I called Cheetah Deals tech support and they don't even show the serial registered in their system. They will call me back tomorrow hopefully with a solution of some sorts.

 

Ouch! Dead/bleeding pixels ><. if you want they got return in 30 days right? If they don't accept the "warranty claim". go return it...

 

Gawd. These VAIO Zs are perfect. Not worth it at retail, but at $1,000 or under, they are the best machines on the planet. No exaggeration.

 

Thanks, as a Z and Vaio neophyte, might you direct me to the sony setting utils, etc? Thanks.

 

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By all means, send it back for a refund if they don't replace or fix the screen. Disappointing it made it through their QC like that - though the brand new Envy 14 with Raidance display I bought in January of this year had nearly identical flaws and they had no Radiance displays left - on the planet! - to replace it.

But I would call and ask for Brian; I may have it wrong, but I think he is pretty high up in the org and he was extremely responsive to me, admittedly over a smaller problem. He is not at the tech support line (it's a separate but wholly owned business unit in a separate building) but he is at least in sales management and I think he would take an interest, especially if you are being told they don't show your serial number as being one of theirs.

Please report in, because as good as mine is, I'm inclined to return it if their qc is that bad and likewise their customer support, and at least 3 others bought from them - on my recommendation

 

uhh you should have Vaio Updater utility, then just run it. otherwise, go to esupport.sony.com (<-- sorry it's not a link, typing this on my N900 in middle of lecture) and for model, type in your model (or if it doesnt work, VPCZ1190X which is the CTO model, drivers are the same though).

 

Hey guys,
Just an update. I called after hours yesterday so I wasn't able to speak to sales but spoke to them today. The CS rep I talked to was very nice and helpful, the serial issue was because they included a dash or something and their system wasn't seeing what I was giving them. Unfortunately they don't have any other Vaio's in stock and they won't go through the process of replacing the LCD when she checked with her supervisor. So only option is to refund for credit or exchange for a "comparable" gateway or acer system which we all know isn't comparable. I am pretty bummed about just getting the refund and not getting the Vaio Z because it was a great laptop for a great price and would be perfect for work.
Lovelaptops, no worries it's not your fault at all, I just got a bum laptop and it was a good deal for all around who got good systems out of it. Enjoy your Z's!

 

You can order and replace the LCD yourself, it'll cost like $450 (for 1080p, I think $350 for 900p) but considering you paid $899, it'll still be a good deal even with a new LCD. I would ask them for a partial refund and put that towards another LCD
Not only that but doesn't think have a 90 day Sony warranty? I would check with Sony instead of CheetahDeals, Sony is more likely to replace the LCD for you.

 

First and foremost, DO NOT let them get away with anything short of a new display!!! Their liability for it - and Sony's as well - is in writing all over their web site

Also, definitely ask to speak to the owner of cheetahdeals. I know Brian is a manager, but I don't think he is the owner. It is a relatively small co and the owner should be accessible. They have a legal requirement to replace your screen, one way or another. They actually state that the screen is warrantied for 1 yr while the rest of the laptop for 90 days.

Going to SONY is an excellent idea, and even just threatening Cheetahdeals to do so might change their "policy" - but there are other options I would try first. The web site is a bit ambiguousness to who you go to first - them or SONY, because it definitely says the refurb wtty is backed by the mfr AND cheetahdeals. I will find that language later when I am not so pressed for time, but it is there.

This is not a "gray area" whatsoever, and I think probably your only bad move was speaking to some CS who answered the phone.

It was really nice of you, geniusofthecrowd, to absolve me of responsibility but I have had it up to here with both computer mfrs and resellers who try to get out of their legal obligations, and I know a good bit about how to get satisfaction, so please keep us posted and if necessary i will call them, tell them i got them you as a customer and that I won't have my reputation sullied for this.

Lots of options, but getting the specific language about screen warranties and of the mfrs' joint wtty responsibility (or so says cheetahdeals!) and pasting it into an email to them - NOW - and then calling Monday and demanding (nicely) to speak to the owner - again, settle for Brian at first if no one else is available, and without anger or threats - at first - just tell them you fully expect them to either pay you the money to get your own new monitor or to do it themselves. Again, I would go for an owner or mgr to speak to, not a CSR (such as they direct you to in "OPT 5) and ask for an explanation of why their written policy is so clear yet their employees tell you to go suck an egg - again, lower the tone of that I'm hoping you just got a really bad, ill informed CSR; it happens, and the company should not be crucified for one employee. Google them, they have a good rep.

please, keep us posted!

Edit: Here's the language from the site. Wherever you write or call, go right to manager or owner if you don't get immediate satisfaction. There's lots of things you can do to threaten their reputation (they have very high ratings presently) and if necessary to write to Acer, Gateway and SONY. But first, try nice, but firm. Note the absolute contradiction: "for product support pleas contact the manufacturer firs." Then, one sentence below: "if you need in-warranty support, contact [their customer service phone line!]"

Manufacturer’s Warranty and Support

Every product purchased from cheetahdeals.com is backed first by the manufacturer’s warranty. For product support, please contact the respective manufacturer first. All refurbished computers ship with a standard 90-day warranty and a one-year warranty applies for refurbished computer displays. If you need in-warranty support on refurbished systems, please contact 800-842-6442 opt 5 or visit http://support.revonate.com. Support hours are: Monday - Friday 9:30AM-10:00PM EST Saturday 10:00AM-4:00PM EST. To submit a support request online for a refurbished system visit http://www.revonate.com/supportticket/ FAQs, Tutorials, and Bios and Driver updates are available for refurbished systems at http://support.revonate.com For support on all other products, please contact the respective manufacturer.

 

BUMP!

Seems the refurbisher, "cheetahdeals.com," also doing business as "Renovations" has refused to repair or replace this gentleman's defective screen claiming, in essence "we don't warranty Sonys the way we do other brands" (something they fail to make any distinction about in any of their web site or associated paperwork)!!! Seems they feel their only obligation for the man with the defective display is to replace it with one they have in inventory - but, oops, they sold them all out and aren't expecting to get any more in or refunding the customer's purchase price. Never mind the written warranty of 90 days on all but the screen, one year for the screen!

So for now, patronize Cheetahdeals at your own risk. Seemed like an awesome deal on the Sony Z11 and they have some good published street cred, but obviously are a small business, who does not give customers access to high level managers to settle matters of this sort in both a friendly and, er, legal manner.

I shall probe further on this. I think they may be misrepresenting the idea that both SONY and their company warranty the refurb - seems that SONY does not endorse this refurbisher as doing work on their behalf nor does it feel a warranty obligation of defects in units refurbished by Cheetahdeals.com. They told one customer that they would fix the problem if they deemed it to be a defective screen as opposed to what they would consider "user damage" which in this case includes the refurbisher as a "user."

Why do people have to lie when there is plenty of money to be made telling the truth and doing right by people? I will pursue this because not only did I buy from them, but I suggested others do as well.

 

Mine just arrived, the only real problem is a cluster of about 4 or 5 dead and/or stuck pixels near the middle of the display. I'm not sure if they're stuck or dead, as they don't appear to be black. The Sony box is arrived in was also beat up with huge rips in it.

Edit: The sheet of paper said my product is Grade "B" reconditioned.

After a few hours, I'm most likely going to return it since the company seems unwilling to replace the screen. I have a cluster of dead/stuck pixels that aligns with the bump on the "F" key when the screen is closed. There's also a dark smudge on the screen indicative of pressure damage. I could live with the smudge, but not the cluster of dead pixels since they're so close to the middle of the screen. JScreenFix and UDPixel flashing the screen didn't unstuck the pixels so I guess they're dead and not stuck. It was worth a shot though, $850 for $1800+ laptop.

 

Yup, that's the summary of what happened so far. Gudgad yeah I have the same sheet in mine, hopefully you just have stuck pixels.

I am guessing the 1 year warranty on Computer Displays is specific to standalone monitors that they sell, so I think that is totally separate from laptops.

I just took a look at their sheet included with the laptop that gives the verbage of the "Limited Product Warranty". Seneca is Revonate which is also Cheetah Deals.
It looks like they do kinda cover their by saying that they will replace with a comparable Product of equal or greater value. But the issue is they have no comparable laptop to give.

"Seneca will make all necessary repairs or replace defective hardware with factory refurbished Product. In the event the Product exhibits a defect in material or workmanship with the the Warranty period, Seneca will provide the Warranty services applicable to the Product. Repairs or replacements may be performed using factory refurbished parts or Products. In the event that Seneca is unable to provide an exact replacement, Seneca will replace the defective products with a comparable Product of equal or greater value. Defective products must be returned by the Purchaser to Seneca for repair or replacement."

 

I thought you said they offered a credit. Doesn't that mean they'll give you a refund?

If you can't get your money back, take it up with your credit card company.

 

yup, they are offering me a full refund to my credit card if I just RMA and return, that's not really the issue. I rather keep the laptop and get the screen replaced under warranty because it's a great price for the laptop.

 

Then it looks like you need to contact Sony since cheetahdeals isn't going to help you replace the screen. (Stating the obvious) haha

 

I have spent about 3 hours talking to people on the phone and writing a very lawyer-like letter to Seneca (parent co), Renovate, LLC (co that does actual refurbishing, but only of Acer/Gateway/Emachines products, and I strongly suggest those of you who have units with problems not to send them back for a refund or, worse, a crappy Acerr alternative, at least until we see what kind of response I get from my letter (glad to email you a copy if you send me your email address - it won't fit on a PM!). Oh, and, btw, I wrote the letter saying that I strongly urged a number of "friends and colleagues" to buy this Z promotion, and was speaking up (not "for," as I have no such authority) about all of us.

Couple of points:

1) No, they really don't cover themselves at all with the "equivalent replacement clause in their warranty document

2) They have committed (probably unintentionally, but tortiously and with full liability nonetheless) abject fraud, deceptive and misleading advertising and sales tactics, which the NYState Attorney General would be all over them for, as would the BBB and the numerous web sites they quote as saying they are the greatest thing since, well, you know

3) They have lured us all by the statement that they have "refurbished" the SONY Z's they sold us and that Sony was the warranter of first resort when the following is the truth is, from the mouth of a Renovate, LLC agent:

-- "we don't refurbish Sony or any other product we sell except Acer/Gwy; We buy the returns from places like the Microsoft Online Store and test them. If they test well, we shine them up and offer for sale; if they don't, we dispose of them" (presumably to a parts salvager).

-- "Sony doesn't even know we exist; if you called them to honor a refurbish warranty on a product we sold you, they would not do so."

-- "We neither know of nor care if there are any companies - Sony, Square Trade, or anyone else who might sell you an extended warranty. Too bad if you were planning to do so when you saw that 'the manufacturer' warranties the refurb for 90 days (which, if true, guarantees that both Sony and Square Trade would sell you an extended wtty at fair mkt value - whereas now I doubt either would); it's not our problem; you can RMA it for a refund, your only remedy."

Oh, how very, very wrong that last statement was! The only question remaining is, upon receipt of my, well, rather explicit and persuasive letter, will they decide they prefer their "good guys" image and do right by us (I've asked them to provide us with a Sony or high caliber - eg, Square Trade - wtty at no cost to us), or they decide to get nasty and stonewall. I'm betting on the former, but no better odds than 60/40.

Stay tuned. (To those who know me, I don't always win big - but I never lose!) Right now, I'm pissed, and I'm recovering from surgery, so I have time on my hands. Ironically, I am not having any of the screen problems others are reporting, but I still have enough of a warranty claim to force them to fix it for me, and for all of us.

Watch this space.

 

I'm really pleased to report that my letter prompted TWO phone calls (one at 7:45 AM and one at 8:15 AM!) from executives of Cheetahdeals.com, (aka Senecadata.com, aka Renovate.com, Seneca being the parent company) and they both apologized profusely for the way their line customer support staff handled those who called requesting repairs/screen replacements for their Sony Z's. They assured me that the company will absolutely repair or replace those screens, or any other part that fails during the 90 day warranty period. They explained the poor performance of their line customer support staff as their being young, recently hired and the whole business of selling direct to customers via cheetahdeals.com being a relatively new and growing venture for their company, which has several other lines of business, and until recently only refurbished Acer/Gateway/eMachines computers - 700,000 per year!! - and sold them to retailers like TigerDirect. They had less they could say about the language on their web site suggesting the computer manufacturers backed the 90 day warranties - they don't, only this company does - and said that language would come down soon and be made more "accurate."

Overall, my sincerity/BS meter read the two callers, both before 8:30, as well in the "green zone," meaning, I have about 90% confidence they were sincere and will make good on their promises. I am not sure that they will dramatically change the way they do customer service because of my letter and phone calls, but I do think that those of us who bought the Sony Zs will be fully covered. Please PM me if you experience continued or new problems!

The guy to contact is head of Customer Relations for all three of the affiliated companies (ie, cheetah, Seneca, Renovate) and his name is Ian T (I could not get the spelling or pronouncement of his name after two tries, and didn't want to make a fool of myself!) His direct phone number is 800-227-3432 or 315-433-1160 (both ring at his Syracuse, NY office, extension 3910 in either case. His email is [email protected].

Please PM me if you are having problems or need additional information, as I am not able to check in with the site as often as I wish lately.

I think we have an opportunity to turn lemons into lemonade here, i you'll pardon the corny reference. These guys really want to show that they are not the scoundrels they appeared at first to be and they know there name was on NBR with negative references. Also, they are now going heavily into Asus, Sony, Dell and Lenovo lines for refurbishing, and I'm willing to bet they might even cut us some below-advertised prices for a bit, if we call through this guy or the VP of Marketing, who also called me.

So, I'm sorry if my referral to these guys caused anyone grief (all I knew at the time was that they had the Zs on sale for an unheard of price and that they got good rating on consumer rating sites), but I hope you will not give up on these great computers at such a steal. I feel a tad guilty that I have zero problems with mine, but it goes to show, they are not crappy products (they explained how they dispose of the ones that are) and they do apparently test and refurbish them fairly thoroughly. Screen damage is very risky when transporting these computers without all of their original packing materials packed carefully, because they are paper thin. Now that they have confirmed they will replace the screens that are bad, I hope you will have the thrill I do of having this beautiful, powerful, feather-light notebook for $855!

PS: just hit me - in case you had any suspicion or concern, I am not a fanboy or in any way affiliated with cheetahdeals and their other companies! The only reasons I dug in to get things worked out were: 1) I encouraged people to buy these and, b) I hate when companies lie and take advantage of customers and, though my unit appears perfect (fingers crossed) I was really irritated by the resigned feelings of defeat that several expressed after their terrible calls with this company's customer support line. I'm kinda known for getting these kinds of things done, and i wanted to at least give it my best.

 

You are one cool guy, I've just been standing on the outside watching this whole dilemma, I was there the first night you suggested cheetahdeals' vaio special. I just couldn't scrounge together $1000 to nab the deal -- Kinda amazing I end up getting my Federal return 3 days later. But that's another story.

It's nice to see someone nowadays who's willing to fight for others, expensing their own time, especially considering you've already gotten your perfectly functional vaio z. Kudos to you man

 

Thanks, that was such a nice thing to say, even if I'm a little embarrassed. Sorry you missed out, but if anyone here does not want to deal with their screen replacement issue, you would be doing this person a really great turn by offering to sell it to him, rather than returning it to cheetahdeals.

(BTW, I know it's bad form to ask, but if you look at my Posts/rep ratio, you'll see why sometimes I feel a little discouraged. I do not look to NBR rep pts to pump my self esteem, and my posts are more often requests for help than offers, but man, in 640 posts I've gotten 6 rep pts - in 85 posts, you've gotten 4! Again, not a solicitation - your words meant way, way, way more to me than a silly forum rep pt! - but it has been sitting at 6 for like, a year.)

 

I understand, every once in a while we need a reminder. heh, I don't even look/think about the rep thing...rep'ed you though.

edit: Let me know if I did it wrong, I notice it didn't go up(yet).

 

Thanks. No worries. You just click on the little furry thing in the bottom left of my post and say whether it's a positive or negative rep. I don't know how long they take to take effect. I appreciate it; feel a little silly asking. It begins to be embarrassing if you have been posting so much for so long and you have so few points, it's hard for people not to think you are a zero value-added kind of member, but no matter. Your words were very kind. And I do think I helped a number of people - present and future would-be customers of this firm. That's what matters; not the praise.

 

Lovelaptops is a really awesome guy and deserves all the rep in the world. Looks like he got a hold of the right guy at Seneca/Cheetah Deals and has me on my way on getting a replacement LCD for the laptop. I've only really been a lurker in this forum previously, so it still feels fairly new to me and it is encouraging to be in a community that is so helpful and has each other's backs.

I appreciate all the hard work and well worded correspondence you put into making sure this company does the right thing. Looks like it is paying off and I will be sure to update the thread and post a pic of my laptop screen when fixed.

 

It is my pleasure! Let's face it; I have a "dog in this hunt" in that my machine could stop working any second. Plus, I'll make a confession: I truly like to solve these kinds of problems. It's a cross between a puzzle, a game theory prediction of human behavior given certain stimuli, and the skill of negotiating. In this case, it was especially rewarding because I went a little extra aggressive and it turns out they are apparently good people who screwed up pretty badly and seem to feel "caught red handed" and really want to make it right. Hope the ends are as good as things appear to be heading.

BTW, this rep thing is starting to make me crazy ; do you have any idea how you got 7 rep pts with only 7 posts?? Not that I'm jealous or anything, lol. I just don't get the system - at all!

 

You have a much higher reputation. The rep power # does only correlate with how long you have registered here and your post count I think. The green box beneath tells you what 'rep rank' you currently are. This rank raises when ppl 'rep' you with the 'scale button' - you can see how many points you made in your user CP. There you find a summary about who rep'd you and the comments.

 

Thanks very much. I really am over that issue and I thank you all for indulging me over it. I never knew there was information about your rep pts in the CP, but when I looked at mine all I saw were, like 25 Negative points that were said to be "expired" but were put there by a mod, with whom I had something of a "feud" a year ago The irony is that we became such good friends after that, and I don't think he even remembered that only mods can post negative reps to drag down someone's rep score. He is now in Haiti, volunteering to help people who are a bit more needy than we computer brats, who don't like it when our 250 C gpus for playing Crysis at 400 fps burns our home down, lol

 

I realize you are no longer concerned about it, but just in case you have some remaining questions about how it all works: http://forum.notebookreview.com/sit...5516-reputation-points-power-user-titles.html

Specifically:

In that particular case Sep-2008 = ~900 days / 150 days = 6 rep power + 1 to start out with = 7.

 

Thanks. I'm embarrassed I brought it up. If I help anyone, that is it's own reward. I know I helped at least two people, and possibly myself down the road, by getting on the case of the cheetahdeals people. Even better, I learned that they are actually really good folks, at least at the top, and they have already written me twice to make sure everyone is getting the service they need on their Z's. I think I - and you - can buy from them with confidence in the future, they were so worried they would get a bad rep on NBR Also, I just got lucky and, so far at least, my $855 Z11 is as perfect as brand new - minus the headphones, lol. What a great "second" computer!

 

Allengeb
Notebook Enthusiast

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 10
Rep Power: 1


Re: New Sony Vaio Z speculation/news thread
<hr style='color:#EEEEEE' size='1'> Does anyone have feedback on whether it is crazy to buy a refurbished Z? If not, would you buy it from directly from Sony or some other site? I await you collective and individual wisdom.

I asked that you transfer the question (above) that you posed on the "Speculation about new Z" thread onto this already going on on the refurb subject.

If you read through this thread, you will probably feel skittish about buying a Z refurb. I urge you NOT to - feel skittish, that is. First, this thread was mostly about a particular online refurbished computer and electronics retailer, cheetahdeals.com, which had a number of refurbished Z11, 1600 X 900, 128 GB silver models for sale for $899, $855 after use of a widely available 5% coupon. I ordered and received one and it is nothing short of extraordinary. It arrived in 2 days in the original Sony box (but missing the excellent earbuds that came with the original) in absolutely perfect condition. Had it been packed in new packaging and sold as new, I could not have detected otherwise. It works perfectly and I couldn't be happier. I purchased a new one of these and owned it for a month last year and ended up returning it for reasons not important, but I can say that in all respects this unit equals the new one.

Now, for the bad news! First, others received their computers in less wonderful condition. You can read about them in the thread, so I won't go into it. Then there was the issue of the warranty. At first the company, cheetahdeals.com, was telling people they would not repair the units and would only refund the purchase price. I called to verify this and got the same story, so I wrote a very aggressive letter to several executives of the company and the next morning I had two calls before 8:30 from executives apologizing for the "misunderstanding" (I agreed to let them off the hook with the euphemism because they were so contrite), and pledging to do anything and everything necessary to fix or replace any units with problems.

So ends the story of buying Z11 refurbs from ONE particular independent reseller. I'm quite confident that this reseller will fully honor their 90 day warranty obligations, if anything go overboard doing so, as they were very concerned about getting a bad reputation for the less than helpful way their line customer service reps handled calls about from people who bought Z's (at my recommendation!) that arrived with problems; the executive in charge of customer service has since emailed me twice to ask if I am aware of anyone who is still having problems. They seem very aware of NBR and really have our attention, so I would actually consider them less risky to buy from than even the manufacturers' own outlet stores - at least for now. The story would be different with every different independent reseller, and further different if purchased from SONY's Outlet store Sony Outlet & Refurbished Products. In particular, each online reseller has a different warranty policy on refurbished computers and a different capability to perform warranty repairs. Cheetahdeals.com is the exclusive refurbisher of Acer and Gateway computers in the U.S., but has very little experience with Sony, and essentially no stock of parts. They are rather learning the hard way not to sell brands they are not yet well equipped to support. Since they have a 700-person repair/refurbish operation, though, I expect they will not have a very steep learning curve. Buying from Sony's Outlet is probably less risky in terms of their having the parts on hand and technicians experienced with Sony products, but if you check with Sony Vaio owners, there is no love lost between them and Sony's tech support - and so it goes with virtually every other manufacturer!

Well, I didn't mean to make that run so long, but hopefully it will be useful to people. I have purchased about a dozen refurbished computers in the past year, so my comments come from experience with manufacturers' outlets and third parties. In general, I think they can be excellent values, my recent example with the Z being the best I have ever seen. The biggest downside of a refurb is that you have to figure in an additional $200 or more for a warranty, which is even more essential than with a new computer. That can eat up 50% or more of the "savings" buying a refurb. The other issue is, with technology virtually doubling capability each year, you have to be careful that you don't overpay for what you are getting. In the case of the Z11 for $855 there was no need for a minute's thought about the value, as long as the product was in good condition. But soon the market will be flooded with $600-$800 computers that are the equals of 2010's $1,000 - $1,500 DTRs. So, a great looking deal on, say, a refurb 2010 Asus G73 with Core i7-720 might be $900 (for a $1,400 new computer) but for little more for that, a Sandy Bridge/advanced GPU Dell XPS 15 will beat the pants off the Asus, and it comes with a warranty to boot. Just a quick example off the top of my head.

I will summarize by saying that refurbished laptops can be excellent deals, but a rule of thumb is that they have to sell for 50% off or more of the street price of the same machine 6 months to 1 year ago to compensate for technology change, the cost of buying a warranty, the fact that if you want to resell your refurb, no matter how perfect and well warrantied, the buyers think of it as having leprosy; we know better, but you may want to keep that refurb "in the family" for most of its useful life.