Is there a Reason for the way laptops are sold?

Sony, seems to offer an array of options to various countries but, they do not just put out a product like Apple does and offer it to every single market around the world. I am legitimately wondering what is the marketing reasoning behind this. Sure it creates interest and a certain demand but, ultimately it creates frustration even in long time Sony customers. I have even asked reps on the phone this question getting various silly answers. Don't you think those phone reps get tired of answering the question "Why is this laptop not offered in my country the same as it is elsewhere?" Like the issue with Europe getting a better screen on the F series and now with the limited offerings in certain markets as opposed to the U.S. Wouldn't it be easier for Sony simply to put out the same offerings everywhere with the CTO items being the same as well as the stock items? Ultimately, wouldn't customers feel better served rather than "left out" It's gotten to the point of being ridiculous I think and I don't think Sony is doing themselves any favors doing it this way.

 

I don't know the answer and I also don't understand why they dump certain great models like the UX or the P or even the Z1 and don't bring something similar or better to replace them. It seems like they cycle some cutting edge super small form factor design every 3 years. I would expect to see another tiny computer like the UX or the P in 2012 or 2013 maybe.

I am not impressed with the new Z2 rumors.

Back to your original point though, it seems like it would be easier to just have the same options world wide. The do seem stuck on their region based configurations. If only Dynamism and Conics were a little more reasonable with their prices I'd just get all my VAIOs from them.

 

It just seems a very strange approach to me especially with a long time customer base. I feel they are missing the point..I guess what got me thinking about this is that I absolutely loved my Vaio desktop and laptops of years past. I've recommended them to family and friends. I knew their products so well they manager at my local *now closed* Sony store offered to hire me every time I went in there. However, even I have a limit. If I feel that way and have started looking at Apple, how many other long time customers are tired of the chase the laptop configuration game?

Sony is well known for two things great design and innovation but, when you won't offer to sell the same "innovations" to everyone and keep doing that repeatedly it turn people off eventually. I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall at those marketing meetings to see what possible reasoning is behind that type of marketing. Maybe someone who has worked for Sony will come and answer this.

They build a lot of excitement about new models with no one knowing what their respective country will end up getting . It's very bizarre. I hope they rethink things a bit. I'm also seeing some complaints about service more than I used to. MAN I used to have fantastic service from Sony without fail!!

I still really like the forward thinking, design and innovation of Sony Vaio but, with some of the rest of this especially the way product is offered needs to change.

 

Re the P series! Another model I wanted to buy and found discontinued but not replaced. I thought those P models were a great little product and an alternative to the ipads in a way. Also great to have if you had a larger laptop at home but, wanted something portable too. A Sony rep did say to me the P series was never marketed properly. His exact words. So,we're back to this weird marketing stradegy causing these issues.

 

It's probably due to the different import/export laws, environmental regulations, safety testing requirements, etc. in various countries.

 

The regional differences in models don't really bother me much though, since the models offered aren't exceptionally different from one another anyway. Sonystyle Hong Kong offers the Z w/256 GB SSDs ($2600-$3000), but Sonystyle Beijing offers the Z w/512 GB SSDs as well as GSM capability ($4600). Perhaps it's related to the spending power of each city? In Hong Kong I highly doubt that someone would pay 4.6k for a laptop. However, for the mainland Chinese who love luxuries, and the recent boom of China, 4.6k is really pocket change. They eat caviars for breakfast!

 

I thought this too but, other companies are not having issues due to these reasons and offer the exact same models and configuration options everywhere.

 

Perhaps not for mainland China and HongKong regarding the differences but, where between Canada, Europe and the U.S. some of the configuration options are quite restrictive. Especially so right now! And as for Hongkong! It's an electronics mecca!! My son lived in China for two years, traveling around the country and spent quite a bit of time in Hong Kong as well. It' electronic heaven there!

 

Now is a great time to buy the P, anytime a model is discontinued you can usually find a few brand new one ones kicking around at rock bottom prices.

 

There's lot's of reasons for this. Different regions have different spending habits, preferences, etc. But there are a couple other issues.

1.) Sony (and other mfr's) give the different regions their own P/L and the regions have their own product marketing and sales teams. So Sony US's team feels certain products are a better fit here and Sony's EU team builds configs that they feel will be successful.

2.) Products brought into the US can cause MFR's big trouble elsewhere, especially in South America and Europe due to US's aggressive pricing, so it's not uncommon for a MFR to want to "protect" certain products from being trashed here in the US. The high-end F panel "may" be an example of this....or it could be the other issue above.

As for the P, that model was a sales disaster, they couldn't discontinue it fast enough.

 

Well, how they feel about what is going to be successful and what might actually sell more are starting to seem at cross purposes given the amount of desire for certain products. I am not in the U.S. and since that market seems at the moment to have far more options it might not seem as restrictive in certain countries. Being in a postion of paying for something that isn't exactly what I want while seeing it clearly available elsewhere is becoming a common complaint with Sony these days. Certainly they have to know this.

You have an interesting take on this though. I am not seeing other companies do this much at all, some not at all and it doesn't seem to be resulting in any problems for them.

 

^It's not just my take, it's the way it is Other PC manufacturers do the exact same thing, maybe you just don't follow it as closely. Many MFR's even pull entire brands in some markets due to feedback in that region (e.g. No Packard Bell in US, even though Acer is quite active here).

 

I think for enthusiasts like us it drives us nuts that we can't get some configurations that other countries/ regions get. It all comes down to money. These companies find it more profitable to put out products that they seem fit the needs of the market in that area.

The same goes for cars. It drives me nuts that Germany can get a ton of cool features and color combinations that the US can't. This leaves car enthusiasts with either saying tough luck or spending huge money to retrofit things onto their cars.

It basically boils down to 99% of the population not caring about said features and that 1% being us enthusiasts that voice our opinions.

 

I had only compared with Apple and Dell which are the two major one here. Acer, Asus and HP are rather secondary markets where I am. It' rare to see very many people with a laptop outside of business models at times other than those top three Sony included of course. I hadn't followed anyone closely other than those three that' true.

 

Cowboy, would you mind letting us in on where one can find a P at a favorable price? I have not been successful locating one. Thanks.

 

This make perfect sense except I still think with something as mainstream as a laptop and with technology changing so fast that it's quickly becoming the majority of people who want to high spec their item to be as future proof as possible given the cost of these items. Having said that however I do see that there are still a lot of people everywhere including in the U.S. who will pay for stock off the shelf Best Buy specials rather than want to pick and choose their own options.

 

Ditto! I'd like to know too!

 

That's right Rafree. Think about the true market here, it's people that just walk into Best Buy not knowing what they want until the salesman tells them. They don't give a crap about 1TB SSD in RAID 0 or 1080 screens. They just want something "fast" because of all the bloatware on their old computer to check their emails and watch Hulu.


I'll speak to the matter of getting a P for a good deal. I was in the market for an ultra portable/ netbook type computer since December of 2010. I scoured my local Cragslist (Seattle) for deals. Seattle is a smaller market than other big cities such as SF/ Dallas/ NY so there aren't as many listings. I kept my eyes on Craigslist for about 5 weeks every day until I found the right deal. During that time period, there were only two or three Ps put up for sale and I believe they were of the HDD flavor which I didn't want. I finally found one with an SSD and haggled the price to what I felt was comfortable paying. But since I bought my P in January of this year, I've only seen one better deal than mine with the SSD. And including that P, there has only been one more for sale in my area, which still has a current listing. But the owner wants too much and it's an HDD version.


The best place to get a P is eBay. In the beginning of the year the VGN P (1st Gen) with SSD are going in the $400 range. It's best to go to an eBay auction since that will sell for market price and not some guy's high buy it now price. Keep in mind that eBay will have the best deals since there's a wider audience that will pay market value. With a place like Craigslist, it's very localized and people don't have much competition so they can get a higher price.

For me personally, I bought locally so I could see the machine in person first to make sure the condition was acceptable to me, since it's a used machine. I liked the comfort of seeing it and testing it out before I bought it.


So basically the take home is look on your local Craigslist but be prepared to pay a little more than auctions on eBay. Just depends how much you value seeing the computer's condition in person first.

And a side note, I have not seen a single VPC-P (2nd gen) on my local Craigslist since I've been looking in December, 2010- and I check Craigslist every day. (I'm looking for a deal on a TZ or TT since I'm looking to upgrade from my P if the price is right).

The P is a neat toy for taking notes and stuff on, but I really dislike the Atom processor.

 

Ebay sounds like an option if I"m careful! I do think Sony will come out with some option to take the place of the P at some point though!

 

This may be the P/UX replacement:

http://cdn.pocket-lint.com/images/AhH6/sony-vaio-slider-pc-teased-1.jpg?20110427-102550

 

totally agreed. I think its just their mentality and old-world way of doing things where they think they need to customize according to individual country's/customers needs. I dont know if that really worked well in the past, but it certainly is not suited to today's world. I admire apple in this respect.

 

It's not bizarre and it's really not that complicated. The different regions are different companies (ie Sony USA, Sony Europe, etc.). Each of those companies has different people, different goals, different resellers, and different end users. The people in those companies make the best decisions they can based on their knowledge of their local market and market conditions.

Just because a few power users wish product X/Y/Z was available and it isn't available in their reason doesn't constitute a bad decision by not bringing that product to that market. There are many other factors.

 

I don't understand why the P didn't sell well. The only thing I can think of is the price. It seems like there are lots of netbooks on the market. I see people using them in coffee shops (other netbooks that is)

I love the P, it is far superior to any other netbook that I've seen. The resolution and size beat anything out there. I can understand how it is not quite a main machine for most people and a $1K secondary machine doesn't fit into a lot of people's budgets. However my girlfriend uses the P as her everyday all around machine and she loves it.

 

Cowboy, is there a reason you ignored everybody looking for advice on the best place to find a good deal on a P? We not important enough to respond to, or what?

 

lovelaptops, was my comment too thorough enough for you to not respond to?

@cowboy, you hit the nail on the head, price. The frickin thing was $1200 for the first gen, 3-4 times the cost of most netbooks.

 

But could they have really sold it for $500, the screen alone was probably a pretty big cost. And they used proper SSD when it first came out, not the garbage SSD (flash drive) that EEEpc had. It was spec'd out like a netbook but it was in a class of it's own.

Sorry, I guess this tread grew and I just looked at the last post.

I bought my P from this site, here is a good deal on a green one Sony Vaio VGN-P688E/G Lifestyle 64GB SSD Netbook

I know the site looks crappy and sketch but trust me it is legit. I got the computer brand new 2 days after I ordered it. There are tons of the gen 2 P on amazon, brand new for $600 or $700

Gen1 on amazon http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VAIO-VGN...I4HW/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1305290468&sr=8-9

Gen2 on amazon http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VPCP111K...8YP2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305290522&sr=8-1


And this is all for brand new items if you are willing to buy used you can get all sorts of good deals, look on ebay. I like buying computers brand new. Other things I might buy used, depends on the deal.

 

The problem with the P can be summarized in one word - Atom. X was a similar failure.

 

Yea the Atom is slow, I would have loved to see the P have a ULV Core2Duo instead.

beaups, what is your opinion of the success of Sony's other tiny offerings, like the UX, the U3 and the PictureBook. Were any of those a success?

 

I'm not saying they should/ could have charged less- I'm just saying they put something to market that cost way too much for most consumers.

Beaups, do you have any information that you can share about that Sony slider PC with the thin keyboard that they showed at that conference?

 

I heard somewhere that that slider is android

 

I think the "wedge" and "burrito" tablets are android. Do you think that slider one would be android as well?

 

maybe it am confused and I was thinking of the wedge and burrito ones

I have no interest in the Android ones.

 

Thanks, I was really beginning to get a complex . Do you think there's a material difference between the Atom 1.33 Ghz and the 1.6 Ghz (abouty $100 diff in price.) Have you ever done a review of the P, or do you know of a good one? What I really want to know is, aside from the obvious limits of the Atom, 2GB RAM and the tiny screen (which I actually like), are there any major compromises involved beyond what a typical netbook has? EG, I read it cannot play Flash video. Thanks

 

My P can play raw 1080P MP4 off my GoProHD cameras, I only have the 1.33Ghz Atom. The P can play flash ok also. It is not perfect and it stutters sometimes. I have the perfect fix for that planned. I am going to have Anh solder in a 2Ghz Atom and I am going to put a Broadcom CrystalHD decoder in it. Then It will be able to play blu-ray rips at full bitrate.

The difference in the P variations that I linked to is more than just the processor. The Gen1 is made in Japan the Gen2 is made in China. The insides of the computers are totally different and the outside design is different also. The Gen2 has an additional track pad and buttons on the screen bezel and an accelerometer. Many of the Gen1 have WWAN many of the Gen2 don't. If you get a WWAN one and don't need to use that function then you have an extra full mini PCIe that you can do something else with.

I have the Gen1 and my girlfriend has the Gen2. The actually difference between my 1.33Ghz P and her 1.6Ghz P is not noticeable. Like I said I am planning on having both of them upgraded to 2Ghz anyhow.

 

Can he do a dual core Atom? In Japan, didn't they have up to 2.13ghz Atom processors? Can you have that soldered in?

Honestly, I can't stand atom, 1.6-2 isn't too noticeable for what I do.

 

you can get the 2.13Ghz Atom soldered in there if you can find one. Anh has a source for the 2Ghz Atom but he said he can't get the 2.13Ggz chip.

I am pretty sure the Atoms that go in the P are not dual core, they are hyperthreaded. I think the dual core Atoms have a different pin out.

 

You're right, they never made a real dual core P, just hyperthreaded solo cores. I was just asking because I'm not sure if it would be compatible with the mobo, but seems like it would provide the best boost. If you don't mind me asking, what's it going to cost after parts and labor to upgrade/ will it make a noticeable difference to you going from 1.33 -> 2?

 

$200 for the processor $200 to install it. I hope it makes a noticeable difference.