I recently bought a Sony SZ1VP/C in the UK. I bought the unit from a Sony Style store and paid 1799.00 GBP.
Having used the laptop on my desk for just over a week I discovered two issues with it.
1) The dreaded space bar issue. Initially I thought it was just me missing the key as I was not used to the different sized keyboard. However, after my brother used the machine, he confirmed the space bar was defective.
2) A missing/broken clip. One of clips which holds panel housing the S1/S2/power button was missing/broken. The part that is missing/broken is on the rear of the machine and less then 1cm x 1cm. So I only spotted it when I put the machine in my bag for the first time.
I was working with a remote client in Canada so was on a completely different time zone. And since Sony support is only open until 6pm, I could not get hold of them for a few days.
Since they couldn't give me an ETA on fixing the issues, I was forced to take the laptop back to the Sony store for replacement/refund. It was just under 3weeks when I managed to get to the store and take the laptop back.
The store decided they wanted to examine the machine to ensure it hadn't been dropped. And had no knowledge of the space bar issue.
Clearly the machine had not been dropped as there was not a mark on it. The missing part of the panel is recessed, less then 1cm^2 and surronded by other parts of the chassis which protrude out further. There is no possible way it could have suffered a physical impact without a scratch being left on the surrounding parts of the chassis.
One week later, after numerous un-returned calls from myself, the store manager called me back. He informed me they couldn't take the laptop back, since Sony would not take it back from them. He admitted the laptop had clearly not been dropped, and it was a mystery how the panel had been dislodged/broken.
Having wasted so much time already, I decided not to pursue the store any further and simply send the laptop back for repair.
After waiting an eternity on the customer services line a tech finally answered. I gave my original ticket number and was informed they were having DB problems so I would have to go throught the details again. He did eventually find my ticket though.
I asked if the space bar issue was a known issue, and after dissapearing to check he confirmed it was. He then said they had no resolution as yet, so they would not take the laptop back in. I explained this was not good enough, as the laptop was of little use to me with a lazy space bar. And as such I wanted the matter escelated. He refused.
He maintained it was acceptible for Sony to continue to sell a machine with this known issue. Wouldn't accept it was wrong that they weren't notifying customers of the issue before they purchased. And expected me to change my typing habbits or use an external keyboard. He refused to escelate the matter or give me any customer service contact details.
Infact he stated the space bar key was not defective, because it registered when pressed in the center. When asked to reconcile that with the fact Sony had tagged it as a known issue he could not.
When pressed why I had not been informed in store of the space bar issue, he claimed Sony had not known the issue existed at that time. Coincidentaly the issue was only tagged as a known issue the day after I bought my machine.
He couldn't however explain why nobody in the store, or their tech department knew of the issue a few weeks later when I took the machine back.
I asked him to note down on my ticket his refusal to escelate the matter, his assertion that the key was not defective, his assertion that I shoud live with the laptop as is and his flat refusal to provide any customer service contact details.
At this point he took an attitude with me. He huffed a few times and said "let me be clear hear, your saying you can't use the laptop because the space bar doesn't work at the edges. And you can't press the key in the center". I replied yes, and it was not possible for me to change 20 years of typing habbits over night. He then sighed and replied in a sarcastic tone "GRAND".
Basically implying I was being unreasonable.
At this point I stopped him in his tracks and asked if he was taking an attitude with me. And what exactly he meant by "GRAND". He then suggested it was I who had the attitude and his tone and attitude changed to one I would not expect having spent so much money with the company.
I then asked the procedure for complaints against staff. He informed me the procedure was a supervisor call back. Which is what he had been trying to avoid all along, but now had to agree to.
This is a brief summary of my dealings with Sony. There are other aspects that I am not happy with. But that would make this post way too long.
All I can say is, this is the last time I will ever buy a Sony product. And I strongly advise others to think twice.
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All I can say is that I'm not really surprised.
Almost 80% of the all the Sony products I've ever owned have either died after about 1-2 years of use and/or have been sent to be repaired for the same problem 4-5 times since. Despite me explaining to the service centre tech people what the problem was, they don't listen, change some random part and claim that my problem has been fixed. I've long since given up hope and now only even consider touching a Sony with a yardstick.
Out of reach, out of mind.
I understand what you're feeling and urge others to consider alternatives. -
Im with u 100%, sony support is an oxymoron, they are rude and obstructive having little to no knowledge of there products, continuely lie and as a final measure never fail to pick a argument even when youve been polite albeit exasperated with the stunning ignorance and stupidity,
there products have continuely been released with known faults and continue to be marketed when further faults are proven to be main stream and not out of the norm,
they exist purely on a massive advertising budget and bullying techniques to there existing customers
i to will never buy another sony product. -
When quized about how a bios update could possibly fix a physical problem with the space bar design, he went on to suggest that by default one of the sensors was disabled and thats why the space bar only worked in the center.
When I explained that some people had removed there space bar key and there was only one sensor. With edge strikes transfered by a sway bar as is the norm in keyboard desgin, he quickly backed down.
He just seemed to want to ensure the laptop was not shipped back and used lies such as this to disuade me from pursuing a return to base. -
First and foremost, I'm sorry to hear about this 5to1.
There's no doubt that Sony's support is not as personal as some other companies.
However, I don't think that the Sony manual says "Be a prick"EVERY company has bad support people.
If Sony is not supplying its support people with good information, that's a bad thing... however, I don't think they're telling them to be *******s just to keep you from sending your machine back... -
Firstly I have dealt with over half a dozen members of Sony's staff now. None of them could provide a satisfactory response. Moreover, if you read some of the threads on this forum alone, you will see this is not an isolated case.
Secondly, considering the position Sony has hired these people in, you would expect a basic grasp of technology to be a pre-requisite.
Comments such as "bios update will fix the space bar", "why don't you use an external keyboard with your laptop", should not be made by even the most idiotic tech. They are equivelant to a mechanic telling you your tracking can be fixed by an ECU update.
So even if it is not a deliberate tactic, it is unacceptible for Sony to hire such people in the first place.
I have not even mentioned the mis information they give you with respect to your statutory rights. Which is illegal!
I bought on the basis of the reputation the Sony brand has attempted to purvey. I paid a premium in order to recieve the level of service they advertise as a key component of purchasing a Sony product.
However, from my experience and that of others I beleive this is a deliberate tactic by Sony to reduce the number of returns. The failure to provide any escalation procedure, the blanket refusal to openly admit they are at fault and the rude and obstructive attitude their staff take all point to this. And not a lack of information.
Infact these are tried and tested tactics manufacturers use to reduce their exposure to problems in their products. They know a large percentage of customers will just capitulate in the face of persistant delaying tactics. However, it was to avoid such behaviour that I bought from Sony, and was prepared to pay more then their competitors charge. -
This has been said before, but logically you will be more likely to post to this if you don't like Sony. I've dealt with many companies support, and its not just Sony. Inferior comes with computers when you know more then most of the techs. I'm not Bill gates but i rank my expertise about a tier 2 - 3 in the arena of computer knowledge. Quality however i beg to differ, as well as style. Anyone can buy a Dell for 600 bucks but who doesn't have a dell? I bought a Sony and even though it has its problems so does everything. The fact is people see a Sony and most of the time they are like **** wish i had one. You pay for the quality, respect, and name. Is it worth it? It's called bias and even a top notch alienware will always get it from someone. Besides my rant, i apologize for your discrepancy and it seems that model has known issues. Can't you get your money back through your credit card company?
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Maybe now is not the time to try to suggest to you that every company has their problems ! -
Well, I had an issue with my space bar, and it was handled by their support department almost perfectly. They even replaced a part that I had damaged, that I never mentioned anything about. The support department I spoke with was very knowledgable and competent.
I also know how call centers work. I know that every call center has "duds" working there, as well as really great support people. If I happen to get a "dud", I'll end the call and try again. I will not engage in pointless banter about who is giving an attitude as that does nothing but make it more difficult and nearly impossible to get the help you are looking for. Yes, I agree that if you have a problem, you expect the person on the other end of the line to care, and bend over backwards to help you, but the reality is that they are people that have their own problems, and own BS to deal with. They shouldn't bring it to the job with them, but it does happen. If you happen to get a "dud", end the call, and compose yourself so as not to "color" your conversation with the next person you speak with when you call back. When you get ahold of someone who is competent, you have to let them help you. Ranting and raving does serve your purpose. I don't care how pissed you may be, you ARE at the mercy of the person on the other end of the line, and you are better off treating them kindly and with respect. -
Firstly let me clarify a few points.
1) I am no novice. I run my own company and we have purchased just short of 100 machines in the last 3 years.
2) This was not an isolated incident. I have experienced the same obstructive and confrontational behaviour all the way from the retail staff to a number of techs.
Yes you can encounter "duds" in any organisation. However, this is the first time I have ever been told by 1st line support there is no escalation procedure. They refused to call a supervisor and refused to give me contact details for customer services.
Moreover, everyone of the Sony staff attempted to mislead me as to my statutory rights.
Having purchased many machines I have experienced problems with products before. Toshiba for example swapped out my R100 after 2 months because I realised the fan had never turned on. The component was clearly defective from new, but I only realised when I eventually pushed the machine and it started powering down due to overheating.
The key issue here is Sony have sold a product they know to be defective. They are continuing to sell said product. They admit the product is defective. They have no resolution and can give no indication as to when or if they will have a resolution. Yet they instruct their stores not to provide refunds. And refuse to even entertain your complaints.
This is a clear breach of my rights under the Sale of Goods act. Moreover, knowingly selling a defective product without informing customers is not in keeping with their legal obligations.
I can only describe the way they are behaving as disgusting.
P.S. I have at no stage ranted and raved. I have been through similar circumstances before. It is Sony's staff who become confrontational when you do not accept their BS and dare to dis-prove it with a cogent argument. -
Were you trying to return the unit to the same store that you purchased it from? Were you trying to return it in the same country it was purchased in? If not, did you get the international warranty?
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Same store. A Sony Style store at that.
Its a UK laptop, bought in the UK, from a UK Sony store.
Even if it wasn't, a defective product is a defective product. The only thing they could impose is shipping costs back to the original country.
And I wasn't trying to return it. I wanted it replaced with one which works. Then to cut the hassle I was prepared to have it repaired.
Not ideal, because I shouldn't really have to be put out because they released a defective product. The Sale of Goods act clearly states any product which is defective from new can be returned. And I dont have to provide any opportunity for the manufacturer to repair it. But it is to avoid hassle like this that I buy from reputable manufacturers only. I really don't want to go to court.
But they don't even have a fix for the issue. -
Bought mine in the USA, Sony Uk refused to even help at first, then wanted to charge me 12 pounds 50 pence for telephone tech support (which was pathetic) Sony US where happy for me to send it back to the USA but they would only return it to a US address even though i offered to cover all the shipping costs back to the UK (for a laptop that the screen went bust on in less than 3 months)
They truely are an atrosous company to deal with (technicaly you cant deal with them they put every obstocale possible in the way to prevent you from achieving any thing positive with them, even when your within your statuory rights) -
and before any of the sony hard on people chime in, i didnt have the international warranty, as i wasnt aware it existed, i niavely believed i was dealing with an international company selling products that are ment to be travelled with, as it turns out i was dealing with a little market stall thief similar in standards to the kind you get in deepest darkest asia,
retropectively i was wrong to expect them to honor my warranty in the uk (after all they are only a billion dollar company) ,and it has been a very expensive learning curve, i just hope other people read these threads and way up the pros and cons cons cons before buying a Sony ornament -
With the SZ18, I am now on my 6th Sony laptop, and I must say customer service was one of the considerations in deciding between the SZ and the Macbook Pro. The customer service for Sony Hong Kong has been nothing short of excellent, at least in my experience. They do go the extra mile for you. I've had a LCD screen replaced on the same day when I needed it urgently (S18), and the techs actually call you to discuss the issues with you if necessary.
I sent in my SZ two weeks ago due to the missing wireless icon, and as it was a public holiday and no techs were working, the customer service rep asked me to take the laptop back and promised to consult with the techs and get back to me. The very next day she rang and said they coud not find a solution to this but will keep me informed. I thought that was the end of that. I just received a call yesterday to ask if I could bring the laptop in on Tuesday as they may have found a solution.
I agree with some of the previous posts in that sometimes customer service is a two way street despite our expectations and there are "duds" working in Sony like everywhere else in the service industry. -
maybe it is the uk that sucks?
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Pitty they don't consider their Western customers worthy of the same level of support.
And let me re-iterate this is not a one of DUD. I've searched the Web and many people have been complaining about the keyboard issue. With as many different responses as complaints.
Dud or not, it is entirely unacceptable of tier 1 support not to provide any escalation procedure. This is the kind of treatment I would expect from a market stall. -
Fair enough. I am frankly shocked at the level of hostility you received, especially from a "customer service" rep. There really is no excuse for being aggressive towards a customer, whether the amount concerned is $1 or in your case, thousands. Perhaps the service level here is good simply because of the face to face interaction (2 main Sony service centers) and therefore accountability is present. Am not sure whether you can do this in the UK, but an open letter in the press, or trade publication may get them to do something. Alternatively, if you have friends working in the company, a fax/ letter or email with full details to the company's top guy may sometimes move mountains...
Personally I've had no quality issues whatsoever with the SZ (except for the missing wireless icon).
Good luck in getting satisfaction. Maybe if this was escalated the way the "Carbon Fiber" thing was, you may get some form of resolution. -
There is no way is this is acceptable and you have my sympathies. I have heard too many complaints from people who have bought Sony laptops and I am going to take your advice.
They have broken your Consumer Rights by selling a faulty laptop and by not exchanging adefective good they probably broke every consumer/statutory right out there. If I were you I pop down to my local citizens advice bureau and see what can be done. In my view, you should take them to court and sue for damages. Someone needs to teach them a lesson.
Selling defective goods is blatantly against the law! -
Well it was to avoid hassle such as taking them to court that I bought from what I thought was a reputable company.
Obviously I was very mistaken in considering Sony a reputable company. -
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Thanks Ostack for sharing your work order reference.
I'm going to have another pop at Sony when the supervisor calls me back on Tuesday.
That is if they bother. As i've heard other people complain that they promise you call backs to get you of the line, but never bother calling you. -
5 to 1:thanks for your response other thread. i have had tons of tech support help (i'm an early adopter, not in a good way). Some are awfull some amazing some in between. BTW apple and yamaha are really good. sony is consistantly bad (i have some universal remotes that are a disaster). wonder why the ipod has beaten the walkman?
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I too have been through headaches with other manufacturers.
But the problem has always been to get them to admit there was a problem.
I've never had a major manufacturer admit their product was broken out of the box, but refuse to do anything about it. They're essentially telling me they have my money, so tough luck.
And the most troubling thing is a blanket refusal from tier one support to provide ANY escalation procedure. Not even an email contact for customer services. -
I don't have an SZ yet, though I will buy one tomorrow, so I can't actually say anything about personal experience regarding, however, this much I've read in a big (and for once respected because it's good) German PC mag (c't for those who care) regarding the tech support of notebook companies in Germany:
Generally, Apple and IBM tech support are apparently the best out there, so that sort of fits. The Sony Support and the Asus support is apparently abysmal (which is why I'll buy the notebook at a local shop, who will do the work for me in case anything breaks down), however from what I've read most people don't actually have bad experiences with Sony's build quality - generally, they're very reliable (unlike Dell). The rule of thumb apparently is: Sony notebooks rarely break down, but if you do, you're in for some nightmareish tech support.
I'm just quoting this though (c't 6/2006). -
Well having gone through a number of machines I can confirm that none of the major manufacturers are perfect.
I haven't bought any Macs before, but would agree that IBM are the best by a fair margin.
Tier one is not perfect. And they don't always admit its there fault. But there is a good escalation procedure. And once you've got to the higher level support staff you can quickly get resolution.
I don't want to bang on about this. But there is an important distinction between my experience with Sony and other manufacturers. NO other manufacturer has ever admitted the product is defective yet still insisted its your problem. Moreover, I've NEVER dealt with tier one support of a major company, who refused to provide an escalation procedure. -
Also DO NOT buy from a Sony Style store with the expectation you will recieve a vetted level of service.
Despite transparently linking directly to Sony Style stores from their website. And giving the impression these are their own stores in every piece of literature. Sony disassociate themselves from Sony Style stores if you have a problem.
Even fast food chains like KFC, Pizza Hut, etc will take complaints against their franchised stores extremely seriously. That is after all the primary advantage of buying from a manufacturers franchised/branded store. Because you are definately paying through the nose to buy from these stores compared to the indipendant retailers.
However, the transparency they suggest when your buying the product soon disappears when you have a problem. They simply pass the buck back and forth. -
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I agree with you %1000000000000 too. In the fact that ALL customer service sucks.
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I mean, everyone says that Sony's customer service is bad... I DON'T DISAGREE with them, but no one has indicated any company that has GOOD customer support.
I bought a Voodoo before the SZ.
Yes, the very expensive "personal service" boutique computer.
And the customer service was terrible across the board.
So, if Sony is so bad, who is so GOOD ? And consistantly with every customer service rep, in every situation ? -
I can tell you in my experience Sony have been the worst.
Moreover, I'm not just talking about laptops. I'm talking about a major purchase of any kind from any manufacturer. The point you seem to miss is, the major issue is not with one or two duds in tier one support. Or that the product has a problem.
But the fact they admit their is an issue with the product out of the box. Yet they take the "you stick it on a shelf untill we can be bothered to fix it" attitude.
With any other problem I've ever heard of with a major manufacturer, the problem is getting them to admit there is a problem. Which is bad, but doable with a little time and effort researching. Since if its a major issue, others will have faced it.
However, getting a manufacturer that doesn't give a f**k, means legal action. Perhaps its different in the US, but in the UK thats not something we take lightly. And I for one would never buy from a manufacturer that takes that attitude.
BTW i've found IBM to be very good. So theres one. But i'm sure you can find someone who's had a problem with them. I'd be suprised if they were fobbed of by tier 1 support though. And told thats it as far as escalation goes. -
i have called sony a lot for my home stereo stuff and they are mostly ok. but the laptop guys are seriously not good. -
I'm glad that someone on this board has experience with Apple to compare and contrast their service, which is why I asked that question originally.
I guess people who buy an SZ have to decide to trade off customer service for weight, features and style.
ASUS has some nice thin and lights, but one could argue that ASUS customer service is even MORE non-existant than Sony's
When I purchased my SZ from a retailer, I got a No-Fault Accidental Same-Day-Exchange 3 year insurance policy. This means I don't have to deal with anyone's customer service, and there's a human being I can talk to face to face just a few minutes away.
A fully featured computer is something I will use every day. Customer service is something I may use a few times.
I'm willing to make that trade-off. -
I too purchased a retailers "no questions asked", "no lemons" and "same-day replacement with same or better product" extended warranty. This is my second SZ110/B. The first one had dead USB ports within a week of use...they were "loose" and you could feel them wiggle inside the chassis. My return took less than an hour, although admittedly I had to spend several more getting my apps/files restored. But I'd have to do that with anything else.
I think many people are comparing a Sony product to other business-class systems. I've got a Dell Latitude with the corporate support program....24hr part replacement and on-site installation/repair if I'd like it. But I _ALSO_ pay a hefty premium for that kind of support as well. When compared to my retailers plan, it's about equal.
BTW, I've had to send one other Vaio PC in for service in the past. This was 2002 with a faulty video card. I spoke to support and they were ready to have me ship the entire PC in (we weren't sure it was a bad grafx card at that point) when the call was escalated to a Tier 2 support individual (at my request). They overnighted me a new (and upgraded) Nvidia grafix card AND offered to send a 3rd party repair tech to my house to install it. Free of charge. I declined the help and did it myself.
By comparison, I had the extended warranty on my Powerbook. I had to make REPEATED trips to the stupid Apple Bar concept, at an Apple store that was 45 miles away from my house, to get a hard drive issue fixed. And it took me almost 6 months of wrangling with them to FINALLY replace my obviously defective battery pack on that beast. All that for the same price of my Sony's extended warranty.
Sony isn't the best in the business. But they are far from the worst. -
The best service? No contest...
Panasonic.
Their major industrial clients demand A+ service - and they get it. If homeland security needs help, it's there. If an airline companyy require immediate service, it's given. It's like having a personal tech at your beck and call. And since they only make a handful of models, each tech knows the machine inside out.
And... it's 24/7, three years free! -
My business is in foodservice/hospitality, specifically we deploy POS (Point of Sale) terminals. The highest priced and least reliable POS machines in the business come from Panasonic. Their support is archaic, their machines are unreliable and they cost at least as much as the next stainless-steel encolsure hardware device. I've personally deployed well over 1000 Pan terminals with a failure rate of well over 10%, completely unacceptable for a $5K terminal.
Perhaps they are better on the consumer side, but in their mainstream POS business, they are "le suck" -
Well its 15:30hrs here. And the Supervisor Call back I was promised first thing, still hasn't materialised.
Guess I'm going to have to call them, before all the "supervisors go home". -
Yep customer service can be dodgy by all companies, but Sony's is consistantly the worst ive come across.
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Vaifan:
Sorry about your experiece with Panasonic POS terminals. Tougbooks, however, are a seperate entity.
Two different divisions, two different animals. -
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I can also say Sony Japan is a different beast than Sony USA. My experience (via Dynamism) with my U70 was exemplary. No complaints.
I had a bad experience with Sony USA regarding my Vaio Pocket player.
So it varies. I won't **** Sony just because their support sucked for the Vaio Pocket. I am pretty self sufficient, so I can handle most minor problems if they occur, but if my SZ90 fails, I'm pretty sure Sony Japan will do the right thing. -
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Sony customer service must pay minimum wage. All they need to do is follow their "frustrate them to the max" script, hang up on them a few times, start at the beginning of the "frustrate them... " text, say any arcane unrealated thing that comes to mind, then say, "I understand your frustration, but so what are you saying"..... then just say no.
I'm an ex-sony customer. -
So here's my update, after my conversation with Sony Support.
After waiting some time in the customary call center queue I finally got hold of a tech. Explained I had been promised a Supervisor Callback, the day was almost over, and no call had been recieved.
Was again quizzed as to why I had requested a call back. Had to justify it all over again. She then put me on hold while she tried to find a supervisor. Came back and told me none were available, but she could arrange for my machine to be picked up to fix the clip atleast.
However, during the booking in process I got the same disclaimer that any physical damage would result in a charge to me. This was one of the reasons I had requested the call back, since the previous tech (3rd one I think) had advised I should get confirmation from a supervisor no charge would be made before shipping the machine back. (The store had already accepted they couldn't see how I could have caused the missing/broken clip through dropping or other impact).
Clearly she hadn't listened to me or read the case. So again I explained the situation. She put me on hold. And suprise, suprise a Supervisor was now available. I explained the situation again. And he agreed to take the notebook in.
So 1 problem it appears will be solved, the clip should get fixed. Fingers crossed.
However, the space bar issue still has no resolution. So the notebook will still be useless to me.
Having had a rough day already, I just couldn't be bothered to get into an argument. I decided to let them repair the clip, which would be a 2 week turn around anyway, and hope they come up with a resolution for a space bar issue between now and then.
He was atleast appologetic. Tried to resolve something for me. And agreed it was a position I should not be placed in. And appears to have some authority to possibly make a difference. Those are all positives.
Am I happy. No. I still have a 2k GBP notebook which is as about as much use to me as a brick. -
I see from your reply to my post in the Weird Spacebar thread that you're not against modifying the spacebar... so, check for my post tonite about the mod and hopefully this will make your notebook not...
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I would prefer not to modify the spacebar myslef. Obviously theres a matter of principle. But mainly because I really get the impression Sony (UK atleast) look for any excuse to get out of warranty work. And I wouldn't put it past them to later say I'd messed with the keyboard, so no new keyboard for me. (Thats why i'm going to wait for the machine to come back before making the mod).
However, given the choice between a 2k paper weight, or a useable laptop. I think I'll take that risk once I get it back.
I'll keep an eye out for the post. Thanks -
Another update.
I got a voicemail from the supervisor who has taken ownership of my case. Said the machine has had to go elsewhere for repair, due to the part required.
I would strongly advise everyone to push to speak to a supervisor. It will take alot of effort and arguing. And probably a fair bit of luck. But your unlikely to get anything other then a headache and high blood pressure from Tier 1.
Hopefully I get it back before the processor is superceded. -
I have the same notebook and have exactly the same problem with the space bar. Support will not take it in for repair as they claim it is a software issue (yet the problem still occurs in DOS), am awaiting further advice.
They don't care you've spent nearly 2k on auseless product - it is like buying acar with no doors! you wouldn't accpet that sowhy accept this - they just don't get it....
(note the missing spaces!!!)
Last Sony product I will ever buy!!!!
Discussion in 'VAIO / Sony' started by 5to1, Apr 28, 2006.