Lightweight Carbon Fiber = fragile casing??

We run multiple Sony units that are light weight and supposedly made with carbon fiber casing or something like that . (TT, TZ, previpus Z) We also run other brands including netbooks and other laptops in the sub 3 lbs range. (Acer, Asus, Dell etc )

In the inevitable bumps of daily use and travel, I sometimes drop the case or even the bare notebooks. All of them survived beautifully.

Yesterday however, my shoulder bag slipped out of my hand and fell about 18 inches. The TT was inside that padded bag . Took it out and there was a nice two inch long break in one corner. It is beyond just a small hairline crack. I was astounded as my other laptops have survived much worse. (i.e. An Asus netbook fell out 30 inches without case on one corner straight onto the asphalt and only suffered a scratch etc.)

The damage to the TT case is far worse than any other laptop I have had through the past 15 years and it was a very minor fall in a bag.

My read then is that these uber lightweight designs by Sony are not very tough in terms of casing? The rest of the notebook functions fine and i won't be repairing it though I have four year Sony accidental coverage on it. I figure I'll use it until it really needs a hardware repair down the road.

Love to hear any feedback as to my read is accurate.

UL

 

Well I own a TZ (premium carbon fiber ?? ) and so far I did not have any sort of
damage caused by a fall.However I can tell you that my keyboard specially the
keys I use the most are wearing out.It is only 5 month old and what was supposed to be carbon fiber (or a mixture of plastic and recicled carbon fiber dust) is coming off.

 

are the keys carbon fiber as well? or are u referring to the lid?

 

Well I think they are not.They sprinkled some sort of glitter which I guess is supposed to imitate carbon fiber.The lid bezel seems to be the same material as the keys are.However the lid outside looks different.

I feel sorry for ULTRALIGHT.I don't know how much padding his shoulder bag had.It is a misfortune.

My TARGUS is very well padded and I am confident that it would resist a 18 inch drop.

http://www.amazon.com/Targus-TSM043...f=sr_1_39?ie=UTF8&s=pc&qid=1271821918&sr=1-39

 

Thanks for the responses. I'd love to hear more comments. It does not dissuade me from getting the curreng generation Z but I do wish they were a bit more 'tough'.

My sense is that Sony's light casing is BRITTLE and prone to cracking. I build fishing rods and have designed very thin and high performance blanks - and this case reminds me a bit of that. High strength to weight ration, but low toughness so impact will break it.

Thanks for the sympathy. However, I don't feel the least bit bad at all - it is a tool so I take as much care as I reasonably can, but if it breaks, it breaks. That's what the warranty is for, like any other tool.

Thanks!
UL

 

I've owned a TX, handled a TZ and now own a TT i really wouldn't want to drop any of those. I would worry if they would function at all.
The TT seems more robust to me than the TZ, TX but may be looks can be deceiving.
Sorry to read that happened to you but at least you've got some coverage so it looks like you won't have to pay out of pocket for that down the line.
Sometimes it depends as well the impact and the way things are dropped and the angle they hit the ground but you've got a lot of experience so we can kind of rule that out.

The lid is carbon fibre plastic. Also the palmrest and the underside of the laptop is meant to be carbon fibre plastic.

 

Got it Rachel. Thanks. Not sure what role the carbon fiber plays in the plastic but they are sure lightweight and thin in terms of casing design.

I do know that one can make light and tough based on what Panasonic does with their laptops.

UL

 

I feel so sorry...truly unfortunate considering that you had gone to lengths to try to prevent damage, but the case didn't protect it.

One thing I have noted about the new Z11 I'm using now is that the single "plate" of aluminum the keyboard rests on sticks out past the carbon fiber-coated plastic around the entire perimeter. That should mean that the aluminum sheet will be absorbing the initial blow of a drop that first impacts one of the edges (i.e., not the top or bottom). Also, the aluminum sheet is thicker around its perimeter, theoretically making it stronger and more rigid. Am I going to test that my dropping mine? Uh...no. But I'm optimistically hoping that this new design translates to a greater level of durability than my Z690 has (which has plastic all around the perimeter that is flush to the edges).

 

While the Z isn't in the "rugged" category, they are pretty tough.

I've dropped my 1st gen Z twice with no ill effects other than some scratches.

The lids are not plastic, but true carbon fiber. I've disassembled the LCD assembly on the new Z. Take a look at the underside



More pics HERE.

Also, check this video. Sony tests the machines pretty rigerously (this is a 1st gen Z):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEfQHNQLxMU

Lastly, the palm rest isn't CF. It is injection molded ABS plastic.

 

The virtue of carbon fiber is the problem as well. It is extremely hard but just as carbon or diamond can break easily depending on angle and impact. It will survive lots more then alu or plastic, but once the threashold is crossed it might crack worse then plastic. I had plastic case Vaio F something model, survive fall from tour bus (luckily not in motion) 2-3 feet on the asphalt, Z,SZ or TT could break easily, depending on angle but much less dense ordinary plastic could absorb some of the impact.
MBPs alu body will dent ( and look ugly) but wont break, each material is better in its own way. All my touring musicians buddies have their MBPs dented all over looking like sh.. after few months of use, while my Vaios look perfect, easily surviving smaller impacts,typical road,stage mis- and ab- use but probably not falls like in OP case.
I am glad I never bothered getting those "premium carbon finish" which from what I hear here is neither premium neither carbon just some stupid sh.. they sprayed on top. Plain, simply polished carbon fiber is not that attractive looking to some people but I like its simplicity, it is light, durable and practically unscratchable.

 

Not sure where you folks are getting your information, but it it IS carbon fiber. The glossy coating is a lacquer applied over it. It is called "Glossy Premium Carbon Fiber."

It also seems to be wearing very well. No scratches at all. It is so durable, I may not cover it with protective film. A few coats of automotive wax should do well.

It is a nightmare when it comes to fingerprints, make no mistakes about that.

 

Since we're talking about materials: what are different parts of the new Z made of? The screen cover is carbon fiber, we know that. What about the chassis (part with curved hinges) and the underside?

 

Very true.
Carbon likes to shatter once it's threshold is passed. However plastic impregnated with carbon, which is what most of this is (though a lot is just plain plastic) this problem is severely reduced.

I have dropped an SZ, 3 feet onto the corner of a curb.
It cracked one small bit of plastic ($20 on ebay), and dented the bottom plate, which I pulled back out with pliers.

This is consistent with the other Sony's I have had (all magnesium) that suffered similar fate. All 3 worked fine after the drop.


Don't knock the carbon laptops too much, they are much tougher than you think. Though I wonder if some of that has to do with the low weight allowing them to not hit the ground as hard. Either way, I know other laptops woudl not have survived nearly as well. The Dell's, Compaqs and Toshibas I have laying around would have broken into several pieces and in some cases needed extensive, expensive repairs.

 

The base appears to be magnesium. The outside of hinges are plastic, but with somewhat sturdy metal fasteners inside.

You can kinda see them here:

 

Wouldn't that be a fire hazard?

 

I have a very simple theory on this issue: if it falls, especially when its such a tiny notebook with everything so close on the inside, its bound to break or crack something. Just like a car, you don't want to let it hit anything.

A cell phone, ok....but laptop def no, even a small fall no matter what material they used.

 

arth1, Magnesium is indeed flammable, but nope.

I probably should have said "magnesium alloy." These alloys are used by other laptop manufacturers as well. In auto racing, "Mags" are still popular for their strength and light weight.

 

Hi, Arth1!

In support of ZoinksS2K, if you need an example, check out the latest thing I've built right here (click on the 360 view for yucks). That's a quite complex magnesium alloy chassis, with 0.6mm thick walls (highly CNCed, which if flammable, would make a really interesting conflagration). Magnesium is also used in a few cellphones. I built my first magnesium chassis portable back at Zenith Data Systems, roughly 20 years ago.

Cheers!
Mark

 

While it maybe strong, I've already notice a few small scratches on the lid of my three week old silver Z.
Side note @ MJFlash: The skiff reader looks awesome, I'm waiting for it to replace my textbooks. I can't wait till it goes on sale!

 

Hi,

I recently dropped my previous Z71 while in softskin case from Sony only 1 meter. The impact was on the lower left corner and ruined all my laptop.
The aluminium absorbed the impact but adopted a curved shape and even i finally get it back to his original aspect the "glossy" layer on the alumium cracked and still visible. The underneath screw (palmrest secure were broken because of very thin portion of very soft metal).

The bottom case also exploded in the corner right in the audio in/out area and the hard disc pushed the internal component that broke the audio/ usb module.. and bent the hdd frame pieces.
Finally the screen corner also broke and can see the lcd screen from bottom side.

Unfortunately i didn t have damage warrantly so i ordered my self bottom case, audio module, plastic frame and hdd plate frame and repaired mysefl.

All i can say is that the previous Z is so fragile, and i noticed when taking appart my Z that the "carbon" bottom case is not "carbon" but regular magnesium plastic with reinforced thin (very thin ) layer of carbon fiber that the case can be pressed without damage. You can see the reinforned area in the bottom case when removing the mother board of on the lid: iths rectangle area but the area where my z broke into piece was rather cheap plastic molded and glue over the reinforced layer.


But the plastic is more fragile from other laptop, so the Z resist to pressure with no visible damage( a mbp will bent)but will exploded if you drop it.
So my future Z will be the new one but i ll apply for damage warrantly because of it design.

You can see the damage right after the drop here:
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/8876/dsc00400o.jpg
http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2554/dsc00398g.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3041/dsc00397c.jpg
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/3849/dsc00396q.jpg
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/9204/dsc00395rc.jpg

 

My old Z dropped few times, without any problems afterwards... except the last time

The power button assembly broke apart so I had to glue it together again.

Incidentally, that happened just few days before new Z was available in the market... I swear it has nothing to do with it

 

Very cool. I've been watching the Skiff on Engadget. Hows about giving a brother a discount?

The first Z1 I had was Silver. The lid picked up scratches when I turned it upside down to snap pictures. I fear this may be the case with the Premium CF as well.

The glossy flavor seems to be very durable. The others, not so much.

Ugh, so sorry that happened. The elder-Z's aluminium lid left much to be desired. The new version's is more rugged and is a structural piece.

1st gen's were extruded or pressed into shape while the new ones are single billet, CNC'ed (milled). If you take the keyboard tray off and try to move the laptop, you will quickly notice some flex in the base. The base of the 1st gen was more structural. The aluminium is thicker in the new Z, but it would probably still bend in certain fall scenarios, just not as easily.

Disassembling with the new configuration is much easier. The old lids were hard to remove so you had to giggle it to break it free. You just have to lift with the new ones. I ended up bending the keyboard tray on the old Z and had to bend it back.

All this said, the elder-Z's had aluminum palm rests. I strongly prefer this over the ABS plastic on the new models.

I'm sure it didn't, psyq321. Sure it didn't

 

Magnesium is flammable but it takes A LOT of heat to do so.

Magnesium powder on the other hand is highly flammable.

That is probably the weakest point on the laptop, and it looks like you hit it just right. I'm sorry for your troubles. On the other hand, the laptop survived, which is probably better than what many would have done.

What did it fall on?

 

I just posted a disassembly video. If you scan to 4:48-ish, you can see how much flex there is when the keyboard tray is removed.

This isn't a problem with the design, just an indication of how sturdy the new aluminum part is and the role it plays in the chassis' rigidity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClLINvVXsg4

 

Wow - that is a terrifying number of screws!

 

Adding insult to injury, there are three screw sizes. The small ones are easy, but there are two lengths for the main screws. They must go back in the correct location or you can damage the internals.

That's why it is so important to print a photo of the bottom out and put the screws in their correct place.

 

Yeah, those long screws are the pain in the...

For people that plan to open the new Z more than once... I suggest to mark the holes (e.g. with CD marker) where long screws go in, just so you don't have to do blind testing.

On the other hand, I fully agree with ZoinksS2k - opening new Z is much easier than the old (except for the screws part...)

 

Really, psyq321, they're not supposed to go there!

I have a rainbow sheet of tiny stickers -- you mark each screw hole with a sticker as you remove the screw, and place one sticker on the cup you place identical screws in too.
If there are any stand-offs you remove, you place a sticker on those too.

(If you're really paranoid, you can place a sticker on the head of each screw.)

Opening is seldom the problem. Getting it back together can be, especially with zif connectors that come loose very easily, and printed connector "cables" that break easily, or one side mustn't touch certain metal parts. Especially for devices that aren't brand new, and the connectors have become brittle, while plastic sleeves have stiffened.

Most people have a digital camera. But few people think of using it during disassembly jobs. Do so. Being able to check the pictures of what you did, step by step, can be invaluable.

 

Just wait. Disassembling the keyboard tray is harder.

 

This is how I keep track of screws in a manner that's the easiest and most fool proof for me.

1. Photocopy the bottom.
2. As each screw comes out, I just tape it with a tiny sliver of masking tape onto the photocopied paper location corresponding to the laptop.
3. When reassembling, just lift the screws off the photocopy and slot it to the same location for the laptop.

Can't be any easier. No multiple color markers/tape/containers etc. And the screws don't spill or get lost as they are taped down securely.

Hope this helps.

UL

 

Ultralight, totally agree. I do the same, just minus the tape. You can see this in the disassembly video.