New Sony Vaio Z speculation/news thread

^ remember when TV use to be wireless (a little before my time so I don't), and phones use to be wired? It's really dependent on how how much work and reliable the system needs to perform. Printers and such consumer wireless tech makes sense. I would probably agree on wireless internet (from the ISP to the house) except we have a pretty shotty ISP system here in the states. IDK about you but I still plug in my wireless gaming console because I like the reliability.

 

you: Hi i preordered a vaio z 2 days ago CTO

you: I am just confirming that it has a backlit keyboard

you: is that correct?

Mark B: Yes, all Z Series models come with a backlit keyboard.

you: thank you

Computercowboy: The blue model is available for purchase in CTO.

fhsieh: You do not give up a usb3 by connecting the pmd. The pmd has usb 3

 

So you think we'll see ViDock for USB 3.0? If USB 3.0 were sufficient for an external GPU, why did Sony even bother with LightPeak for the PMD?

(I'm not arguing, this is a genuine question.)

 

Usb3 doesn't go both ways does it?

 

LP is the best way to connect the dock. USB would be fine for the ODD but not for a full-duplex connection to the eGPU. My take is that Sony wasn't interested in using LP as another general use port (USB 3 is for that) but simply as a way to allow them to split-off the GPU to save size/weight/heat while still providing a GPU.

The design strikes me as being sophisticated and practical.

 

LightPeak allows you to stack multiple protocols into the same cable much like an HDMI cable. Not possible with USB 3.0 even if bandwidth was sufficient.

 

So what's everyone's opinion on the blue model? IMO it's at the same time kinda hot and kinda not... I always have a hard time making judgments on color via pictures. If I saw it in the Sony store, I'd have my mind made up.

 

Go to page two of the CTO page:

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/st...52921666344650&categoryId=8198552921644784028

There you are allowed to select between "Carbon Black" and "Carbon Indigo" (neither of which are carbon fiber).

 

The gold brown is hot, the blue is not.
My P is Gold/Brown, but the Gold/Brown Z2 is like a cross between older /N models and the Burnished Brown Signature S which I have seen in person and it is hot

 

That's not what I said. You would have to give up a USB3 port on the main unit if Sony were to change the PMD connector to a Thunderbolt/mini-DisplayPort connector. Has nothing to do with whether the PMD is connected or not. Was that not clear the first time I said it?

Of course USB 3.0 is not sufficient for eGPU. No one is arguing that; it's clear PCI Express is a much better interface for any GPU, internal or external.

All Lightpeak and Thunderbolt are, are just ways to get that PCI Express interface off of the motherboard via simple cabling. If you've ever worked with desktops, the idea would be akin to moving a PCI-E slot outside of the case with some kind of cable.

(With that in mind, the PMD is really just a "customized PCI-E card" which includes the GPU, a SATA interface for the ODD, and additional USB and ethernet ports.)

TB would be able to do the job just as well as LP. And neither of them have anything to do with USB 3.0 (merely that LP uses a USB-shaped plug; but the actual USB3.0 port isn't used for LP communication).

So the question is (again), why did Sony choose LP (USB) over TB (mDP)? Certainly timing is a factor, but really when you disconnect the PMD and take just the Z2 on the road ( which is the whole point of the Z2), you will more likely have use for USB rather than mini-DisplayPort. It will be a long time before TB/mDP becomes as ubiquitous a port as USB (if it ever reaches that), so for the time being it just makes more sense to have that extra USB port on the main unit.

LP/USB makes sense because you get all the benefits of moving a PCI Express lane off of the motherboard, and still have a useful USB 3.0 port when the PMD isn't in use. Sorry if you were hoping to use your shiny new Pegasus R6 with a Z2; Sony just probably assumes that if you absolutely need to stay connected to your R6, you probably won't be moving around a lot and don't need a 1.16kg laptop.

 

You guys are starting to confuse me here: I thought LP and TB is the same thing, just different namings.

 

Sorry i misread

To answer your question, this should be a good read for you: How Sony accidentally did the right thing with Light Peak | This is my next...

Noap, thunderbolt uses the copper/mdp connection. It is a "subset" of light peak technology. The lightpeak we see in the Z uses a fiber optic/usb connection. It is the same type of technology but uses a different type of connection.

The article i just posted might be a good read for you too as well.

 

Sure, agreed on all of this. (Actually I've learned something, since I had no idea whether it would be possible to do an eGPU over USB 3 - I was asking that as a question, not arguing.)

My only point is, there are going to be eGPU implementations based on TB. There is not likely to be any implementation based on Sony's proprietary LP. The 6630 in the PMD is a reasonable mid-range graphics card today, but in a couple of years, it is going to be positively pokey. The choice of the proprietary LP orphans the Z2, since it will apparently not be possible to upgrade the eGPU.

Of course, this is all guesswork. Maybe Sony will release new versions of the PMD (for the Z3, perhaps) with upgraded GPU. Maybe third parties will target Sony's LP. Maybe someone will make an adapter from LP to TB. If you have any insights into the likelihood of any of these, I'd find it very interesting.

Thanks, by the way - interesting discussion!

 

So anybody know if US Z2 has 2nd gen or 3rd gen SSD? It seems that none of them, including the $4700 Signature, claims to have 3rd gen SSD.

 

The pickup date for the Z2 in Taiwan has changed from the 23rd of July to the 10th of August.

Someone earlier posted that in Japan the Z2 has been pushed back to the 15th of August.

Sony Hong Kong also took off the teaser page for the Z2.

 

So we do have LP in the new Z althought everyone is talking about TB?

 

This tracks with what I've just been told by the Sony Style store in Palo Alto California. They gave me a date of Aug 17 for them to have a model onto which I can place my grubby little hands.

 

^yes. Most articles are incorrectly calling it thunderbolt.

And my US ship date was moved to aug 17th.

 

I think I'm going to hold off making a decision on the new Z until until at least the end of the month. Perhaps by then they'll have sorted out issues ranging from LTE support to color choice. A Sony rep said that they don't yet have all the info about the new Z since it just went on pre-order. I'm guessing (without basis) that they'll offer LTE support and the colors (like 'em or not) featured in the publicity photos.

I'm also guessing that either the current price or the description of the highest-end Signature model will change. Signatures have always offered something different, even if just a color. Sony may not be the absolute cheapest notebook made, but I still can't see them charging $700 for absolutely nothing. If nothing else, doing so would harm the rep of the Signature line. Who knows, maybe they'll pack a faster GPU into the Signature dock.

 

There "are" going to be TB based graphics card solutions? If so, when? Since apple is the only TB player in the near future, did they build the appropriate muxer into their PC's to allow an external graphics card to display data on the internal screen? Probably not.

My argument in this whole thing is that TB is largely vaporware. There's one product coming out for it, and it's a high-end raid solution. Yawn. Not something you are going to want to plug into a notebook any time soon.

With the exception of graphics cards, I can't see much of a case for using TB's increased bandwidth over USB 3.0.

There's only one external GPU solution via LP or TB today, and guess what it's Sony's LP-based PMD/ So I guess technically Sony's "standard" already has more support than Thunderbolt

 

I talked to a rep and he said that he couldnt tell me what gen SSD was in it. He said i had to contact tech support. I'm at work now and can't. I'll call when i get home, but if anyone wants to call now: 1-800-222-7669

 

It seems to me obvious that if Sony really wanted to maximize sales of the Z2 they would commit now to future upgraded and compatible versions of the PMD. If I had the reassurance now that in two or three years I could keep the main unit while upgrading the PMD, it would completely change the cost/benefit analysis of a purchase because I would be able to factor in extended life.

 

Gotta believe Sony didn't go through the trouble to develop this LP connector just for the Z2 PMD.... I'm betting we'll see additional implementations in the future. Maybe not from third parties, but from Sony.

Agreed!

 

Ehhh, whatever.... the 'premium carbon' isn't really carbon either. It's a brushed aluminum type of look w/ lacquer coating.

Now if they offered something akin to Pagani's Carbo-tanium in appearance then I'd get excited...



Soooo hot.

 

I have mux in the gpu in my mbp 13, sonnet and PE4hl are developing external adapter for pcie x16 cards, including gpus (high bandwidth is not limited to gaming, professional designers do use it too)

I was baffled when I found out that I had the mux, which would make sense only in the mbp 15 and 17, but we will see if its really needed, since x220 with an egpu on the expresscard can use the internal display, much like the t420, I dont know if they have muxes. However for the x220 it would be a stupid move, much like the mbp 13, since they dont offer dedicated gpus for the mux to be of any use

apple cinema displays are launching this month with tb, there are already photos of them daisy chained to a mbp, the mba is also going to have, and there are some rumors that the mac pro and the mac mini would be launched with it as well, the date for both is uncertain.

tb is for professional use, egpus can benefit on that, but the primary idea is for professionals that deal with multimedia, much like firewire there are some cams that are being developed to use that interface, which would benefit those that use it greatly.

and you do know that both sony and apple got a exclusivity agreement of tb this year, next year is going to be definite moment for the tech, since other OEMs could use it. In the end its a good marketing decision no matter where you look at it, since apple can create such a hype on their products and create the desire for those, much like sony

 

You are trying to be too logical The "Z Customer" is going to replace the notebook in a year or 2...futureproofing is inconsequential. Just ask ComputerCowboy

 

Why? There's no other way for the Z to have the PMD without LP. Thus, the entire redesign of the Z rests on their implementing LP. On the other hand, as Beaups pointed out, what other peripherals are ther that need LP? Most things I could think of that would be relevant to an ultralight could be handled by USB 3.

 

^ I know it's not carbon fiber, but it's closer to CF than the plain jane matte black.

BTW, I love carbon fiber and would go nuts if they made a lid like that. Heck, my iPhone's rear panel has been replaced with a real carbon fiber one!

 

Good point.

My thought was we'll see additional Sony systems using the same sort of set-up....and probably upgraded PMDs at some point. But also that Sony's got other ideas for it. What those ideas might be, or if they're any good.... I've no clue. ;-)

I kind of dig the stealth look of the black over the PC-F.... but each to his own.

Which back plate did you go with for your phone? I'm thinking of getting the Element Case one for mine....

 

I guess we'll find out soon enough whether or not the Apple mux's will support eGPU's. As crazy as they are about driver support, I'm pessimistic. But I won't write it off just yet.

So TODAY, TB gives you what ability exactly? And you are saying the near future brings some daisy chain monitors (less than the Z2 supports) and an eGPU should be coming and a RAID box?

 

its a simplify all port. you can go and daisy chain devices, you can set up networks with it, you can transfer high volume of data, it fits the design purpose of ultrabooks, you can use other pcie cards with it, sound cards, external data transfer from cams and other high volume data devices... there are several uses.

btw just to add, there are some people that are trying to use desktop gpus on the imacs, this is going to be a great thing for them

 

^Are you referring to some sort of box or the TB port itself?

 

could be a little more specific? if that is regarding the cinema display, they are packing the port itself, if for egpus, they are in a box with either 150w or 300w psus, that is for sonnet, pe4hl is going the simpler way, just a connector (tb out and pcie x16 in) and you deal with the rest (psu, gpu)

or about the cams? of that I have little info, since I dont even own a decent cam right now, only a sony cybershot from 2003, nor Im interested in buying anything right now, maybe the olympus ep 1, but I digress (or digest the pizza)

 

LOL! You are absolutely correct! This logic thing is a personal fault of mine. And both you and Sony are correct in identifying the inimitable cowboy mentioned above as more representative of The Z Customer than I am. I tend less toward the bleeding edge than the clotting one. Certainly, they have an incentive not to futureproof, and nudge folks into completely new purchases, as they have done with this new z.

Anyway, thanks for the laugh.

 

Ok i just got off the phone with sony tech support. They said that since it hasn't been released they couldn't tell me if it was sata2 or sata3, but he said it was at least sata2 (no sh!t...)

Sales didn't know either. Im gonna try and go to one of those Z expos in the retail stores and see if one of them knows. If anyone else can acquire this info that would be great too.

 

Can anyone inform me or point me in the direction of Sony's return policy for CTO laptops?

 

Well, good luck, I tend to not place high confidence in Sony reps' ability to accurately describe the specs of their machine, but I guess it's better than nothing.

For reference point, based on hands-on demo unit testing and spec sheets, asian pre-built models, including Japanese ones, only get 2nd gen. European CTO has options to pick either 2nd or 3rd gen. Japanese CTO only has 3rd gen option.

I reallly hope US get 3rd gen, but right now I'm pessimistic. We didn't even get the gold color option...

 

Apparently not for me as I honestly can't remember.

 

30 days in US.

 

damnit, waiting is killing me.

can somebody tell me any differences between getting a CTO Z in canada vs CTO Z in the states?

keyboard differences, warranties, like ANYTHING, etc...

 

I called the store in NYC. A guy said that he could tell me if it was sata 2 or 3 tmrw at noon and told me to call him back.

Also, the NYC store has a Z on display so stop by if your close. I think i will be

 

Excellent but I won't be home for a couple of weeks :/ Looking forward to hearing what you find.

 

Hmm, looks like there is a small delay for all Z shipments now

 

^haha i thought that'd happen. I'd be super angry if preconfigs were in store way earlier than when i received my CTO.

btw some arsehole at the NJ store tried to tell me that 8/17 was optimistic >.>

 

Off-Topic

How do you guys feels about Windows Security Essentials as an antivirus & anti-malware program - its free?

 

Surprised no one made a comment. I like it, Can't wait......

Well, I do like blue. Its one of my favorite colors, but not that blue. Black and that color blue clash for some reason, though blue can be a neutral color.

I was going to head over to SonyStyle in O.C. today to check out if the Z2 was on display , but I freaked out because I didn't know if that part of the 405 would be affected by Carmaggedon. It turned out the freeway system was better now than normal. So, I'll wait 'till Sunday to head over.

 

^I've heard good things about WSE, but I'm a loyal eset ss4 user

As for tablets, I'm waiting for Google's ice cream sandwich touting nexus tablet.

 

I like it. Been using it for almost 2 years now, and what I can say is that it's very light on system resources. I am not sure how good of a job it does, but it has popped up a couple of times over these 2 years to warn me about things. Since I installed it, I have never bothered with antivirus software.

Also I have a question. It is highly unlikely that anyone knows but I thought I'd give it a try. Any chance Sony will start selling the Z2 without the PMD? beaups, do you have any kind of info about this? If this option was available, I would order it instantly :/

 

Thanks, I'll use WSE then......That Sony tablet looked pretty cool. That design was awesome. It appeared that it could be folded _ saw the hinge through all that shadowing.

Thanks, Downloading WSE.......Maybe, only in Japan where you can get the Z2 without the PMD. They tend to offer things differently from the rest of the world.

 

sony UK offer the Z2 without the PMD also.