New Z model with Intel Core i5 CPU

I think they indicated in the video that in the new Z, the palmrest is made of a single slab of Aluminium. Hopefully that should ease your concerns about the new Z ?

Bottomline, the new Z is a quantum leap over the old Z, whether we want to admit to it or not. Specifications wise and design wise. Just accept that reality. Clearly, they indicated that during the development of the new Z, they benchmarked on the old-Z and improved on every single aspect that needed to be improved on or remedied......including things like the perpetual disfiguring marks on the screen (of the old Z), when the screen touches the keyboard and one had to carry a silly cloth around, which in turn had to be slid between the keyboard and the screen, everytime the Z had to be transported (how "cool" was that ).

For me personally, what sorely disappointed me about the old-Z, was the pitiful discrete GPU it came with, 256MB of memory and all (with absolutely no option to upgrade it). The non-HD screen (even though pretty brilliant when compared to its contemporaries) was also a downer for me....the new 13" Full-HD screen is just pushing the design envelope into the rarefied "special" category. There are no "contemporaries" for the new Z, from a screen aspect. In case of the old-Z, the lower-end (and significantly cheaper) SR-series could be equipped with a better GPU.....how "cool" was that, after paying through the nose for the Z ?

The new Z has not only remedied such downsides, but in the video, they indicated that the cooling in the new-Z is also significantly more efficient than in the old-Z (probably needed due to the far more power that resides under the skin). I am a "function over form" kind of guy but in case of the new Z, both the "form" and the "function" have been upgraded over the prior version. I have zero quibbles over the new Z, either in specification or in looks. A true desktop replacement in a brilliant 13" and 3lbs form factor. Simply magnificent !

 

Does Trim make such a large difference?
By disabling RAID on a quad-SSD would you not be sacrificing a 4X improvement in speed now for possible better performance in the future?
Would it not be better to perform a backup/format/reinstall if the speed ever noticeably degraded in the future, provided this was not a regular event?
There are 4 SSDs, so the non-Trimmed speed should still be 4X better than a single non-Trimmed drive.

I know it probably depends on the usage model, and don't know how long it takes before the drive starts slowing. For example, if Hibernate was used once per day, writing 8GB to the drive each time, does that mean a non-Trimmed 256GB drive would start to slow down after 32 days, once the entire drive has been written to once? Or does a slow-down only occur after a more random type of use?

 

No it's not from cleaning, it's from excessive use.

http://www.lps2u.com/ngbh/keyboardskin/universal/2.jpg

^ Random example from Google images. Look at the spacebar key. That's how most laptops are that I see around campus.

 

@ will

i see your point and you are right. maybe it will be still fast with the decrease if they don`t have any new idea against it. But if so, i think for a 1900+ product the customer for shure expects NO decrease at all!!!!

i mean we are talking about 1900+!!!!
My only concern is that we will never hear anything from sony about trim or something comparable in this raid0. we just have to wait for some tests!!

these reviews should benchmark the hdd and then we will know wether to buy it or not, cause this could be a deal-breaker for me.

again for 1900+ my ssd should have something against the decrease for sure especially when regarding that win7 is capable of it!!!!

 

Forgive me for my ignorance, but I'm new to the world of SSDs. I've seen passing discussion of Trim v. Non-Trim and SLC v. MLC, but I don't understand the meaning or significance of those terms. I've also read apparently conflicting information about dual v. quad SSDs in the new Z series. From what some people have said, it seems that the SSDs--while a great leap forward in the short term--could prove to be the weak link in these computers. Could someone please give this SSD noob a primer on SSDs?

 

The anandtech.com site has 2 *very* detailed articles that explain SSDs and their differences and quirks in detail. Very informative. That is where I learned what I know about SSDs.

The following is a multi-page article:

http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531

There are a couple more articles that followed the above one and you can go through them after going through the above. I have not found a better article on SSDs, explaining things in such simple terms, anywhere else.

 

ok guys so i found an quite interesting article which could solve our concerns about the ssd decrease in raid0 if used by sony.
They are speaking about the samsung ssd`s used in vaio laptops, especially about theit firmwares. so while the older ones don`t habe bgc(background garbage collection), the newer firmwares do have it!

This can be compared to trim ans has the same effect! nearly the same and very very good!

so samsung is aware of the problem and the newer firmwares solve it.

regarding that the article is from august 2009:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showpost.php?p=5336875&postcount=9765

i really hope that when the laptops arrive in march 2010, all of the used ssd`s in the z should and will have a ssd with BGC!!


what y`all think about it?

 

Sounds like the Sony engineers (who I suppose would be FAR more qualified on these things that anybody posting on these threads) would almost certainly have done their homework on the type of equipment they put into their highest-end executive laptop.

I guess we will have to wait to see what kind of solution they have implemented in the new Z-series SSDs, but I doubt they are clueless about the very specific concerns we are expressing here and have already taken care of those.

 

I would love this to be true!!!!

 

I second the Anandtech articles. They're definitely the best insight into the new and developing SSD technology.

 

Or, they can just call it a feature (i.e. SSD performance degradation), as they successfully did with the battery drain issue

But let's keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best...

 

My source for SSD info
http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-jargon.html

 

Is there really any question other than "Black or Silver"? I like the Silver when it is open, but the black is elegant.

 

can you guys tell me if there will be an option to configure the laptop?

maybe you ordered the last one so you guys should know it.

i would take the small one for 1799€.
4gb is enoug,
core i5-520 is enough,
dvd burner is enough as i got a ps3,
maybe i would change to full hd screen (how much can it cost? 100 euro plus?),
128gb ssd ....hmmm maybe 192 or 256 depending on the price( again...how much will they charge for it??)

can`t wait to see the configuration tool on the website enabled to try my config out

 

What you meant by markings is if the black color will show smudges from daily use. It definitely will. I notice these smudges on the display/showroom models like in the current black Z. So, silver for those concern, will be the obvious choice. The first generation Z (Z5xx) had the gunmental gray aluminum keyboard/palmrest which was perfect. I posted this concern as well a few pages back. I was curious why on the 1min 25sec., the Youtube video depicted the New Z as having an all-black keyboard/palmrest, yet the pictures that surface around the internet depict the new Z as having that same gunmetal color. I don't think the Black will show any markings like scratches for example, unless you nick it. So it's a personal choice as far as color. For me, I prefer it in Black.

As for those stickers on the palmrest, I tried removing them with my fingernails on the floor sample. And the black palmrest did leave a scratch mark, but it was easy to buff out - that's how resistant the material is to scratches. Anyway, what do you guys use to remove those stickers?

Both colors do look good. I just curious how silver looks in carbon fiber. I'm so use to seeing silver in magnesium. Sony has always used the carbon material in black or brownish-tinge like in the SZ/X. I'm also curious how glossy this new carbon is compared to the current premium carbon, since the current premium carbon has sheen to it.

 

The colors available for the New Z-series seems to be:

* Silver
* Premium Carbon Fiber Black
* Metal Mosaic
* Glossy Premium Carbon Fiber

So there are 2 Carbon Fiber options, one of them is a "Glossy" version (which is available for the Signature series maxed out model) while the other is not. I assume both of these Carbon Fiber options are Black.

 

I'll not go for a new Z because for now I don't like the new palmrest. If I'm right, we still don't know from what material it's made and for me it looks like something, what will change color under heavy use.

My keyboard changed color though (or became shiny if you like), but as it's quite the same for all letter keys, it looks somehow cool to me.

As for the cloth everyone's complaining. I do understand it's uncomfortable for some people, but I kinda like it. Not the possibility of scratches, but the cloth. I'm using Radtech cloth on all of my notebooks to keep the monitor dust free while carrying. Many times when I opened notebook somewhere, ppl were saying how cool and stylish the cloth looks like.

 

Would anyone here get a hard drive equipped Z (instead of SSD)?

 

Does Sony even have an executive laptop?
If a manager asked me to order a Vaio Z, I would have to say no -- primarily because they don't have an executive version without a camera (which would prevent the manager from taking it to most customer premises). That's a big showstopper for both cell phones and laptops.

Also, it would not be a good choice for traveling execs because the US models are locked to US providers, and can't be used abroad by inserting a different sim, unlike business laptops from other companies.

In short, the Z is an enthusiast's laptop, not an executive one.

 

I don't know about this. If you're in a tech related company I realize that a lot of them don't allow cameras on the premises. Outside of that, I've never EVER had that issue at any company I've been to (mostly finance related). There's a whole other world out there.

 

Me. And I would switch it for Intel SSD

 

Sorry, you seem to work in an environment, where a built-in camera in a laptop will not allow it to be used. None of our executives have such problems and we operate in 90+ countries, with over a 100K+ employees.

My work blackberry has a camera (as I assume all blackberrys around) and that too doesn't seem to pose any problems in any of our worldwide locations. All of our executives have blackberrys/blackjacks.

 

The current Z can be CTOed to have no webcam in Japan, and I am pretty sure that option will still be there in the new Z in Japan as well, so the original point is really moot anyway. And if your CEO really needs to have a laptop of Z's caliber without a webcam, I'm sure he or she has deep enough pocket to afford a CTO Z imported from Japan.

 

Yeah, keys on the keyboard do get grease marks, the only way to avoid it is to use keyboard protection cover/film (yes, there is such a thing). The palm rest of current Z really should have any marks -- the only possibility would be if you left the stickers there for a year and all of sudden decide to peel them of. I peeled off mine immediately, including the Intel and Windows ones, so I don't know, but in other laptops that have plastic palmrest there you would clearly see a different color under the stickers.

 

If it helps:
This is from my current Z11XN/B modified from simple HDD to dual SSD.
The intel controller allows for JBOD, RAID 0 and RAID 1
http://www.3dspark.com/Z_RAID_Boot.jpg
http://www.3dspark.com/Z_RAID_Config.jpg

 

At least here in the US, the new Z only comes equipped with SSDs. I believe in some markets they do allow HDDs to be fitted - even for the new Z.

 

And I believe Intel is coming out with larger capacity SSDs, upto around 512GB, in 2010.

 

ok thx for the pics.

so you got a raid0 config...tell us something about it. how is the speed, do they decrease alot? do they have garbage collection, cause trim doesn`t work with raid.

 

In China there seems to be a model with an HDD.

 

Yes, that what's the translated litterature seems to indicate but it's only available in China. The model would be VPC-Z115 something...

There are also some lower model showing up for Brazil and Latin America (VPC-Z110GB and VPC-Z110GL) and they might (???) have the no SSD option? They look to be real entry models but it is speculation at this point.

 

Just finished reading the whole thread; whew! Fantastic comments.

I would like to get the new Z but later be able to put a standard 2.5" SSD into it. Just to be clear, is it the case that I will only be able to do that if I buy a Z with a mechancial hard drive in it? (In which case it seems I would have to import a new Z.) Or would it be possible to buy the new Z with the 128GB SSD in it (in a dual configuration Raid 0, it sounds like), and then change that out later? Basically, I am unfamiliar with Raid configurations in laptops, and so I cannot conceptualize what it would take to remove one of the SSD Raid configurations in the new Z and then replace it with something like an Intel X25. Thanks.

 

Speaking on this thread about SSD's on the new Z model, one SSD would be ideal for me. If Sony will not offer this ( Raid is a non starter, not to mention the added cost ), I will pass on this and look closer at the new S model. If anyone is in the know, please post.

Many thanks.....

 

We still don't know whether it'll be 1.8" or 2.5" HDD.
Probably 1.8", since there's almost no space for a large hard drive.

 

From the youtube videos it seems to be a 1.8" , but with 2 actual SSD's on one 1.8 card

 

When then brings us to the question: Is stock yet available on any of the Intel X18-M drives? They were announced ages ago, but don't seem to be in stock anywhere yet.

 

Wow, those articles took forever to read but I read every single page and now feel "enlightened." Now I'm worried about the SSD Sony will ship with the Z. It seems there are only two good ones out there right now.

 

I read the complete article too, so unless they are using the new SSD controller that works, I'd rather stick with an HDD...

 

Keyboards don't really get "grease marks" from use (they can of course get greasy, but that's not the thing that keeps the keys shiney after they've been cleaned)... your finger (actually your fingerprint) actually polishes/wears away the plastic that the keys are made out of over time. I recall a problem with a Fujitsu notebook from a few years ago where the plastic in the keyboard was far too soft and the keys would actually wear right through in a year.

I'm right now typing on an original Microsoft Natural keyboard from about 1995 and there is SIGNIFICANT polishing on all letter keys (especially common ones)... and around the arrow keys, the frame of the keyboard has actually been worn away with nice little ergonomic indents.

 

so guys i did soome investigation on the ssd concern.

quite impressive and promising what i found. Last summer, around july there was a thread about the Z790 from sony. they used a raid0 there, but not the quad raid0 which should be even faster.
the good thing is the speed first:

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=395883

(read post 5)

So we got 350 read and 250 write!!!!!!!!!!!! awesome!!
in my earlier post i got a link with the hd tune picture which confirms the read speed so the write speed will be also true!

again we are talking july 2009 and just about speed.

so for the new z in march 2010:

1. Expect it to be bloody powerful and fast in the ssd section!
Sony "experimented" on the asian market with the models so they know how to deliver!!!

2.speed isn`t everything

3. so even back then a new firmware was out which had garbage collection (also mentioned in one of my earlier posts). and again this was summer 2009.

So in conclusion: of course i can not guarantee it or something BUT: believe me or not, the ssd raid0 will be the fastest thing out in march and it will have backgrounf garbage collection which is unaffected by raid0. So Speed and speed for a long time!!!!

now all i need is some reviews about it to jump from 99% confidence to 100%!!!


I hope you like my investigation

Dave

 

It has been my habit too, over the years, with each notebook purchase, to immediately go to radtech.com, to get the appropriate sized microfiber cloth (among other cool accessories), to protect the screen from the keyboard when the notebook lid is closed. I also like how it does double-duty as a screen-cleaner, and you can even personalize with different colors/patterns (!).

I think I would still get one even with the new Z, where keyboard contact with the screen when the lid is closed, is supposed to be much less/if any problem, due to the re-designed case.

 

Re-designed case and there are rubber stoppers too, I believe, which prevents the screen from making contact with the keys. As mentioned above, the new Z designers specifically used the previous Z as the benchmark and worked on eliminating the small niggles that it had.

 

IMO, feel the rubber strip across the top of the screen is cheap looking. And of course won't know until over time if that thing would peel off. I wish the designers could have found a way to design the bezel as such with a thickness that would have created more separation of the screen and keys when closed, but without making the screen sit so far inside the bezel like a cheap netbook. Am I making sense when I say this ?

 

Actually, I need to see the laptop in the flesh, before I know how it looks. However, looking at the F-series design, there are some very small rubber stoppers around the screen (I am not talking about the strip at the top of the screen in the new Z), which in turn will prevent the screen from making contact with the keyboard. Don't know if that is present in the new Z too.

 

The current Z has little rubber bumpers around the screen doesn't it? I know my SZ does and there HAS been a little bit of key rubbing on the glossy screen. I guess they felt they were compressing too much under pressure, and the solution was a larger rubber bumpers.

I know the little bumpers on my SZ have never been in danger of coming off, so I doubt a bigger and easier to attach bumper would.

 

Yeah, the current Z has 6 little rubber feet around the upper half of screen bezel that touch the raised palm rest platform and there are additional two rubber feet, either side of keyboard, to support the middle part of the screen. Still, people are reporting keyboard scratching the screen.

 

Not excited, not at all. The measured speed is on big transfers, not on seq read/write of small files which are important for running OS on them.

As it was on SonyStyle site, the numbers for quad SSD Z are:

60s20 for boot time with quad SSD in RAID 0? My single Intel SSD booted up in 23 seconds when I was measuring it.

Not to mention that with quad SSD you'll most probably get no possibility of fw upgrade, TRIM function and very difficult future upgrade of the SSD itself, which in case of SSD is quite important.

 

Solid State Drive, very nice.

 

True for the keys.
My Z11VN has its keys starting to feel less "grippy" after about 6 months.
I bought a FW at the same time and its keys didn't have the same texture on them so they don't feel any different now. Maybe keys should be engineered out of metal in the future to avoid any kind of wear ?

Am glad with the direction Sony took for the new Z, still waiting on reports regarding screen/lid rigidity though.

The thing I really like is the new chassis bar the palmrest.
The new chassis will clearly provide much better overall rigidity, I always felt the Z being sold as a premium product, didn't feel any less creaky than a laptop say 3 times cheaper.
My real hope is for Sony to contend with 1.5kg product in the future and try to produce a unibody chassis for the next gen Z. That would be truly awesome.

 

As for the speed of those SSD drives in that Youtube video. RAID 0 drives from what i have read are slower than single SSD of the same type booting up. This thread discusses why this is the case for dual RAID drives.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?p=5538859
Quad drives might be a little slower.
Still though you need to get the laptop to try and see if you can tweak it yourself. Those speeds even taking into account the little extra time booting up do not seem quite right.

 

So....are the Quad SSD drives faster or slower than say a 7200 RPM disk drive?