New Z model with Intel Core i5 CPU

I just wanted to say that. I looked at the pics of the Panasonic laptop and I couldn't believe my eyes. Both the inside and the outside are very ugly in my opinion.

 

I second that. Believe your eyes, because that design is a nightmare.

 

Yes, it is. You can read english version of that review.

And that is 4-core i7 from Vaio F. Again, we still need more tests because there's no reason for i7-620M-based system to comsume 15W more (actually i7 was almost twice as much as i5 in that review). It's just ridiculous. Period.

 

Definitely new Z is ridiculous overkill for typical business executive. As you said you self this machine is dream machine for developer not bound to the office especially if he also likes to play games sometimes. For executive on the move portege r600 is more than enough.

I think sony is making big mistake targeting only business executives with Z. All commercials are with suits walking around with it

 

I need the memory and processing power to some degree. ULVs sometimes can get it done - the R600 is the first smaller ultraportable machine where I had enough memory and horsepower to do what I needed (which is a lot of VM stuff - I generally have 5 or 6 running at a given time), but still really need more. 8GB is perfect for me memory wise. Even my older Z90 didn't have enough memory at the time nor enough hard drive room on the RAID. I've already maxed out my 512GB SSD and the 5GB of memory on the R600, but I'm not processor constrained. Seeing that I do a lot of VM and database stuff, I need good I/O throughput, too. It's not just capacity. 7200rpm drives are even too slow for the most part at this point for my needs. When my Z was down, I bought the Z690Y from Best Buy which had the 7200rpm drive, and I noticed its speed difference vs. my Z90 with RAID.

I also have practical concerns in that besides needing the power, I need a laptop that is really in the 3 - 4lb range that also has long battery life. The old SZ and the Z were at the upper range of that, but I also wrote two books with those. Whenever I get a bigger form factor like the SZ or Z which is over 3lbs, I just never get comfortable with it. Going to the Z to the R600 was comfortable for me.

I'm in a unique situation that I need the power and low weight but not cool multimedia or insane resolution. Once I switched to ultraportables starting with the U70, I stopped having regular back problems. I've always pushed technical limits, going back to using Vmware Workstation on an old Compaq Armada in about 2002 or so. My health comes first and foremost, so I'll never go back to an over 4lb notebook. That right there places me in the $2000 range at a minimum with everything I need. Then I think about all of my other requirements plus what I think looks good, etc.

Do I do the occational Photoshop or odd thing I *may* need better graphics? Sure. I do music stuff as well, but I'm more limited there by hard drive space or speed of I/O as well as memory to run plugins than I am processor speed.

I've also tried "cheaper" options, and quite frankly, they didn't work for me. Sony laptops have been good to me, and this R600 I'm using at the moment is the first non-Sony since my JVC 741 that I've liked.

 

That's because suits are legen... (wait for it) ... dary

 

The Vaios are marketed somewhat to the biz crowd - on the Japanese SonyStyle they have the "VAIO BUSINESS" section ( http://www.jp.sonystyle.com/Product/Computer/Vaio-biz/index.html). But it's basically the same computers. The B and the G are the only real ones targeted at the business market per se from a "traditional" standpoint.

I agree about Panasonic in Japan - everytime I've gone, I see people who have them everywhere. In this new computer process I've asked a few people and even they prefer the Panasonics. To date I've avoided them because I will agree with most people here in that they're not as sexy as most Vaios. I doubt many would disagree. Even my R600 isn't nearly as good as most Vaios I've owned, but it's not horrid.

I'd love an X with better specs, or even an updated T. Like the newly spec'd G, but if Panasonic can shove that i7 in the R, why would I now get the updated G outside of it being able to handle 8GB of memory? It just means Sony's answer to that may be around the corner.

Even the new Z I'd prefer no ODD and the option for a 2nd hard drive like the TT. I'd sooner have 1TB of storage over a better screen.

 

I am a layman but, as a business man, I just can't see Sony purposefully putting something out with the failure rate you describe.

Creating "ultimate" business notebook wouldn't seem to include causing their highest-end customers to put their data at high risk.

There must be more to it than that.

 

Barney is different story. For him Z would be a perfect fit

 

RAID 0 is risky - lose one drive, lose all of your data. You have that risk which probably zeros out the positive benefit of the increased speed of four "platters" (relatively speaking). RAID 0 or 1 are only practical with two drives anyway which is why Sony did what it did in the past. Although RAID 5 is slower on writes, I'd sooner have that with the new RAID and have parity so that if I did lose a drive, it wouldn't be catastrophic.

Having lost one of my RAID drives in a Vaio, I can say that with no hesitation.

 

I sure hope you are way off with your 81% estimate of one SSD not failing within the first couple of years. If it were the case, the probability of four SSDs not failing in this period of time would be 0.81^4 = 0.43, i.e. 43%, which means more than half of the notebooks with such drives would fail within the specified period!

But lets say for the sake of the argument that SSD's reliability has improved markedly since 2007 and now the non-failure rate is 98% (big improvement from 81% you quote). Even then, a quad-SSD system will have 0.98^4 = 92% SSD reliability. In other words, 8 such notebooks in a hundred will lose data from SSD-related problems within the first 2 years. Now, we all kow that other components can also fail in a notebook. So de facto rate of failure will be higher. From the images posted by SONY it appears that (unlike the current VGN-Z series), the VPC-Z will have a different, non-standard connector on the SSD. So even if the data on the SSDs are not lost due to their failure, it may effectively become inaccessible due to failure of other components.

It is very easy and illustrative for the marketing department to show to the prospective customers how fast the system is at copying a 1GB file (as we saw in the youtube flick posted by sonyelectronics on January, 19, 2010).

What they made sure not to mention is that this increase in speed comes at a cost: significant loss of reliability. It sort of reminds me of the megapixel-count wars in digital camera evolution. Cramming more pixels into the sensor looks good to the marketing department (and to " Simplicio-The-Consumer") but inherently increases noise and does not vote for good photo quality.

With regards to the SSD SONY put into their new Z, I believe reliability is a consideration in a quad-SSD system. Ultimately only time will tell.

 

Thanks for that info! Looking for a 12.1" or under. Seems I loved my Sony T-250. Wish they could bring back an i5 T/TT/TZ series. What ever happened to those? Will there be a come back in the series or am I stuck with the cheaper looking X series?

 

Now, we are getting there.....until we see the entire Sony approach with their Quad or dual SSD in RAID 0, and their solution for any potential problems, I prefer not to jump to conclusions and fear the worst.

Till date, what we know is that they have some whiz-bang Quad-SSD approach in their upcoming Z, speculated to be Raid 0 (striping). Of course we know that writing to a quad-SSD setup, in RAID 0, with no redundancy built in, is risky from the perspective of preserving valuable data, especially if it is not just the failure of a controller, but also a failure of the drives themselves. But is that what Sony has done ? Do we know exactly what they have done or are we speculating based on what we know about a traditional RAID 0 and what it does ?

Bottomline, let us wait to see what the Sony SSD solution is, before jumping into the let-us-trash-it-before-we-even-know-for-sure-what-it-is mode. Of course once live examples of the Z gets to us and we do see issues with the product, then let us take the gloves off and have at it.

 

I like this comparison, I feel it applies to the new HD screen res also. A year ago the debate was whether 1600 was too hard on the eyes, and now they push it over the edge - in classic Sony fashion.

I recall when the P was being hyped, no-one could quite believe the proposed res - when it dropped it was clear Sony are off on another planet. The P has the most insane itty-bitty fiddly screen in the history of computing, and now they want to drive the Z down the same manhole.

 

Isn't that in line with their previous company motto, " Like.Nther.?"

 

To add a little perspective on the whole "display resolution" debate;
I do visual effects with Houdini and edit RED One 4K footage on my Z for a good 12 to 16 hours every day and it is set on the native 1600x900 resolution and to be honest I am CRAVING a higher res...
so 1920x1080 would be a blessing.
Oh, and the display is positioned about 1.5m from my eyes and I can read PDF textbooks comfortably for hours.

So if you do not like the 1920x1080 display then by all means go for the 1600x900 or if not that then go for an S and let the argument end there!
I believe that poor horse has been beaten to a pulp!

 

Ha...I thought people would hate the engine lid design more than anything else. I never like Panasonic's styling cues, but I kind of like the round touch pad -- don't know how different it is to use, though. But, they are definitely the last of pure-bred business machines.

 

The new Full-HD screen is one of the key things that I love about the new Z. Since there are 2 screen resolutions available in the Z, I might have to go the CTO route to get the 1920x1080.

The others who are unhappy, can willingly pick the Z options with the lower res screen. That is what choices are for, right ?

 

Advantage of having an extremely thick chasis... Still, I think the T coming out in Feb. will have to have some Core i UM processors.

 

I'll take a silver one with 1920 x 1080 resolution, the blu ray drive, and a measley 128GB SSD. I'll just add a 32 GB, 64 GB or higher SD card.

 

And what exactly is a "business machine" ?

The ones of the Sony "BZ" line that are carted around by analysts ? Or the ones of the Z-class that are earmarked for employees, where cost is no bar (read multi-function-executives) ?

The "business" laptops that most companies provide to their rank-and-file (except maybe the engineering/design laptops), are typically ones with "adequate enough" specs and definitely not something that a gamer would crave or invite envy from anyone. These are typically purchased in bulk and are usually leased for a fixed period, before being replaced with a new one.

Or are we talking about small business owners moving around with a laptop that contains their documents and stuff ? Or maybe professional photographers ?

A "business laptop" is a fairly nebulous term !

 

Exactly my plan ! I plan to go with all the specs maxed out (processor, RAM, resolution, Bluray burner etc) except for the disk storage, where I will go with the 128GB option. I am guessing that just opting for the 128GB, in lieu of the 512GB, will shave off a cool $1500 from the price.

 

Guys bear in mind if you plan on purchasing the lower end SSD option that you are most likely stuck with it as it appears sony has used a proprietary connector for the drive...
It is listed as SATA but it may just adhere to the SATA communication protocol as in the exploded images it appears to be some sort of LIF or ZIF connector.

 

To ease my mind of the speculated risk regarding those extremely fast SSD's, no need for the mac daddy sized one. I don't know enough about them anyways but my VAIO's are only for PORTABLE multi-media use. I have the monster sized AW for storing all my data and media. Just a mention also...it's disappointing the headphone jack is in the front of the new Z. Oh well.

 

I planned to get a Z with i7-620M, 6GB RAM, 1920x1080, 256 GB (Quad), DVD, Black color.
But after reading the new infos and the discussion here, I'm a bit puzzled

The only sure thing in the list above is the 6 GB RAM (I don't need more for now and I can upgrade to 8GB easier than from 4GB).

And the other specs:
i7-620M: if the test linked a few posts ago is correct, then the i5-540M would be a much better choice (almost the same performance with much less power consumption/heat). Have to wait for benchmarks and tests.

1920x1080: I'm sitting a lot in front of the laptop (programming, office, reading, web etc.) and right now I have a 1280x800 screen which is good. But if everything gets smaller, my eyes will flow out Have to wait and see in person what the resolution is like.

256 GB (Quad): Maybe a dual SSD (there will be no single one i suppose) would be better in terms of reliability. A little bit less chance of one drive failing than with 4 SSDs.

DVD: I haven't used any BluRay discs until now, but I'm planning to keep the laptop for a long time, so maybe it would be better to have this feature (who knows...)

Black color: We were discussing, that the silver or gray color is maybe better in terms of wearing of the palmrest. But that was just speculation, so I'll most probably take the black one, no matter what.

So based on the discussion here, those are my concerns. But we'll/I'll just have to wait 1-2 months and most of the questions should be answered by then

 

I think push comes to shove, even 128GB is not too shabby, as long as you religiously move your documents to a backup harddrive and or optical discs.

You will enjoy the advantage of having your applications on a fast SSD drive and then data storage in external hard-disks.

 

Hence the adjective: pure-bred. It comes from a time long ago when having a laptop for business is a privilege, not necessity. Spill-proof keyboard is a must because there is really nothing you can do other than drinking coffee when you are downloading file through 2400bps modem or IR port and knocking your laptop off the table while sorting through those slippery viewgraphes is just part of your daily routine. The specs are really secondary, since the fact that you have one is enough to differentiate.

Not many people can make this kind of laptop in 2010 and still make a profit, but somehow Panasonic manages to keep on going like an Energizer Bunny, at least in Japan anyway. I think there is some peer pressure there for the traditional businessmen to use Panasonic since everyone is using it. On the other hand, if you value portability over everything else, it's really hard to beat Panasonic.

 

Interesting page for the high end VPC-Z11FHX/XQ
also available for other models, just search the site vor VPCZ11 and you will be presented with options.
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-home.pl?mdl=VPCZ11FHXXQ&LOC=3

Also, dont remember this being posted...
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/VPCZ110_series.pdf
User Guide for the new Z series

 

Yeah, this was posted several pages back. But thanks, anyway.

 

I'm really considering replacing my LG P310 with the new Z, but not sure about paying premium for a SSD raid 0 setup. If there's going to be an option to purchase it with a regular HDD then I'm game.

I would much rather replace the SSD with something like this: http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/25/kingstons-ssdnow-v-series-hits-512gb-capacity-adds-trim-suppo/

maybe not the 512gb model since that alone may cost as much the new z. lol

 

I believe there was a posting a few pages back, that in the Chinese market, they offer an HDD option for the new-Z. Unfortunately, in the US market and also probably the EU market, the new Z only comes with SSD.

Since the base Z comes out-of-the-box with an SSD, you will not be paying a "premium" for the SSD per se. But you will be paying a premium for the Z itself.

 

So when are they going to be available with the new specs?
Every time I go to SONY's site I only find the last generation.

 

This consideration is exactly my concern. Everything about the new Z is far ahead of what I need in a laptop (and it would therefore last me a very long time), but if I can’t upgrade the hard drive down the road, then that is the one factor for me that immediately begins to date the Z the moment I drive it off the lot. I’d be fine buying it with the 2 x 64 GB SSD, but I want to be able to upgrade it in the future or to change it out myself if for any reason it fails. If I knew I could upgrade the SSD to a 2.5” or even 1.8” (as seems more likely, if either are possible) SSD in the future, then there would be nothing with the new Z that I could find to complain about. As it stands, the possibility that I may not be about to swap out the Raid 0 SSD is my one concern.

Incidentally, in my Vaio TZ the connector is LIF or ZIF, but the TZ’s hard drive is PATA not SATA. Is it the case that a hard drive can operate at “SATA speeds” while connected via a LIF or ZIF connector?

 

Well, the fact that there are chinese configurations with a sata hard drive makes me think that you can swap the SSD for a sata drive (at worst, via an adapter). Of course, we won't know for sure until they come out, but that's my gut feel.

-Peter

 

To be honest, the cable and the assembly for the SSD look very similar to the caddy you have for the dual SSD in the current Z. The big difference being that they achieve quad SSD through dual-double SSD (double sided) which are non standard...

But otherwise, I wonder if you could not replace it by the same type of Dual SSD from the current Z, or even single 1.8" SSD, if you manage to find the appropriate cable (which, if I recall correctly, was quite an adventure on the current version.)

FYI, if you don't want to go dig in the other thread, the part was this: http://www.sparepartswarehouse.com/part.aspx?partnumber=A1553769A&mfg=Sony&sdevicetype=Laptop

of course, we'll have to wait for somebody to get the new Z (and have the courage to open it ) to confirm this

 

Just curious, why would the placement of a headphone jack be better on the side than on the front. I guess, I've never experienced using one in front.

 

My laptops have always had the headphone jack in front. I don't think it makes sense any other place. If you're sitting at a desk, you'll want the cord to be in front of you rather than going under the laptop or to the side of it. You'll lose cord that way too.

 

No worries Treofred, I ripped apart my brand new Z back in 2008 only 20 minutes after I got it back home so I cannot see why this would be any different.
Seems easier to disassemble in any case.

 

I have always felt it more convenient that the headphone jack was on the side so that when using the notebook on a table or desk with external speakers, you didn't have excess cord or the audio plug sticking out the front of the notebook. Asthetically I feel it looks better and is better with cord management where it's just easier to hide the excess cords. Just a personal preference I guess.

 

They probably moved it to the front now since the emphasis is on people who use headphones (which is why they're including the earphones).

 

And that makes sense as well. I've owned 4 VAIO notebooks so far and none of the headphone jack inputs have been in the front. Like I said, I guess just personal preference.

 

If Z spends most of the time on the table then headphone jack on the front side is for most of the people just a small inconvenience. In all other cases it's usually the problem

But then again sony is selling this machine to business executives and they are not supposed to work while lying on the couch although size and weight of this machine is ideal for it .

 

I'm trying to remember when was the last time I used my Z on the table But I have to admit that the jack in the front is one of the small things which bother me on the new design. Along with the round feet next to the battery.

Once they finally removed that ugly hole by putting SD and MS reader next to each other, they broke the design with headphone/mic jack.

 

Several reasons.

It makes using the notebook as a laptop in your recliner harder, unless you like plugs digging into your abdomen.
It becomes even more of a problem when using it with real headphones with a 3.5" plug; then you also have a rather large converter plug sticking out the front.

And for table/tray use, it prevents placing a wrist rest in front of the notebook.
Finally, it also makes it very awkward to bring cables from the audio out jack to external speakers (or amplifier).

The old Z has the headphone outlet in the IMO near optimal spot. Close to the front, so it won't eat up your cable length or stretch across the palm rest, and on the left side because most people are right-handed and more likely to move their right hand around.

 

I won't hold my breath waiting for a new T or G ...

 

How do you know that a new T is coming in February? I don't know in US but in Europe and Japan, the TT is selling quite good.

Do you anything about the P series?

 

Just an educated guess in addition to some of the rumors I heard, I must say. But now that Panasonic announced the new line up with Core i UM, I think the next T is right around the corner. And Sony will watch how these new Panasonics do to do some final adjustments on G's replacement/update, which probably would be announced in summer. It's just how these ultraportable competitions go in Japan.

The new P, unfortunately, is already out, but the only difference is in lid design and the addition of pink as color option. When is Intel's Z550 replacement supposed to be out anyway?

 

Hope you're right, I have been fan of the T series for a long time, I owned a TZ too and I am waiting for some new "miracle from Sony".
No, the pink P is not a new model. Is just a signature edition model, and they added this colour. I mean the specs didn't change (2.0 ghZ, 256 GB SSD, W7), just because the black was sold out they put the pink one. The P has to be refreshed from October with the release of Windows 7.
Good question though, when is going to be refreshed the Z550?

 

Very well put. Thank you.

 

No, in US the P and X have not been refreshed, only previewed models are signature collection edition. In Japan, both have been updated, and the only new additions are what I mentioned. Yes, it's hardly a refresh, but it is.