New Z model with Intel Core i5 CPU

I rent out my RED with a 17" Macbook Pro with an internal Memoright 128GT SSD (as that is as reliable as you can get with it's internal battery to save the data in case of power loss)
Also, I have found ESATA dual 2.5" RAID 0, 1, JBOD packs that can be powered from a USB socket so I supply that macbook with two raid 1 packs each loaded with 2x256 OCZ Vertex SSDs.

But for myself I use the Z as it kicks the macbook's [censored] . (keep in mind I like macs as much as Vaios, heck, I even have a modbook)
Only drawbacks are the 1080 vs 900pix display, the measly GPU both of which will be fixed with my new Z.
The reason I use a Z is because it runs Houdini better than the Macbook and I want that as, whenever I go along with the camera (or for my own production) I offer on-the-set pre-viz of effects for the director of photography and the producers.

Also of note, most people stick tot he macbook as it is a surefire way to get the job done 99% of the time.
But with my Z I simply switch batteries and keep going so I can laugh and point at the macbook drone running around looking for a socket to power the mac

Guys keep in mind the argument for the old Z was to get what's cost effective now, knowing you can upgrade the cpu in the future but this time 'round it seems Sony went the Apple way and soldered the cpu

EDIT:

I think I know why, the aluminium foil is only installed when you order the laptop with the fingerprint reader so that you get an extra measure of data protection against aliens scanning your computer to steal your data.

 

Exactly which component needs EMF shielding, I don't know. That Sony engineers put it there for any other reason? Possible, but not probable.

 

I'm interested in doing my own power-use benchmarking on my new Z when it arrives. Does anyone here know of any software apps that can report the exact power draw of the system in a given circumstance? If not, is there any alternative to simply timing until battery fail in each condition (ie, I'd love to know how much more power is consumed in discrete gpu mode watching a video vs stamina mode looking at web pages vs ...)?

Thanks for any advice!

 

Thanks! This is a brilliant idea that helped me get a feeling of how the 1920x1080 screen might be in absence of seeing it in person.

 

What I did was to get screenshots from the different resolutions, e.g. from this itmedia.co.jp review, and see them in full-screen on my 13.3" VGN-S.

My screen ratio is 16:10 and the Z has 16:9, so there were black lines on the top and bottom of my screen, but it gave a feeling of how the text size would be like...so I'm going for 1600x900, because it seems that it'll be ok without changing the DPI settings (the text on the full HD is way too small for me). Of course, 1366×768 would surely be better, but I hope, I can get used to 1600x900.

 

Sounds like you have a much nicer setup than most around here. One of my buddies has one of the first reds made can't remember if it was actually 0001 though, just remember him saying something about it. I take it your not from the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale area though?


As far as tin foil is concerned we have to remember these pics are preproduction units nothing saying the retail units will have the tin foil so I wouldn't be too worried about it.

 

I am in greece...
But I'll be moving to Miami (south beach or town centre) pretty soon.
It can't be a #0001 since all up to 0015 are in RED's hands and especially #0001 is still in it's original packaging, never opened.
I was one of the last to place a pre-order back in late 2006 before we even knew if it was going to really happen.

Anyways, what I am really hoping is that the Z's reviewed are all ES and so the final retail product will have PGA processors as there is some controversy with the identification codes on the CPUs that clearly indicates they are ES (engineering samples)

EDIT: Clearly visible: Q3G6 ES http://image.itmedia.co.jp/l/im/pcuser/articles/1002/16/l_tm_0216vaiozi_25.jpg

 

Cool if your coming to Miami to work we will probably meet eventually, hope to see a Z on set soon Yea I don't know what number it was, I will have to ask him next time I talk to him.

I wouldn't get hopes up on the PGA with all the talk in those videos of redesigning the Z to make it the smallest and lightest possible the soldered CPU seems likely to me but who knows...

 

I think throughout this entire (and admittedly longwinded) thread I have been one of the most optimistic in terms of the Glossy CF chassis, the CPU, the SSDs with the TRIM feature and of course the 1080p display...
Time will tell.
And what I hope it does tell us, is that I was right all along Now that will be a relief.

Imagine if Sony is actually using PGA processors... then maybe with a little careful modding (ie, with a 100% silver cooling solution) I could even try to install one of the quad core i7s... oh boy that will be the day...
But now we are entering the sphere of "what-if"

EDIT:
New drivers posted on the 24th! http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-list.pl?mdl=VPCZ11FHXXQ
Looks like they just added the nvidia 330M driver... interesting.

 

I doubt you would be able to put the Quad-core i7s (i7-720QM or i7-820QM etc) into the Z-series, else they would have done it already. It is too small a chassis for the Quads.

Of course, if the Z could accomodate the Quad-cores, then the F-series would not even have been a consideration for me.....it would have been Z-series all the way.

 

The original Z was never supposed to have the QX9300 but I made it work but then Sony would have to install a cooling solution worth about 500$ alone and that's without any margin for profit... so I highly doubt anyone would buy it save for us few crazed nuts...

 

Lauderhill over here! Not that you asked, sorry. Of course, I live in Miami on the weekends . Currently schooling in Orlando though..oh how I long to move back down.

More ontopic though, I try not to expect too much even if just to save my hopes from getting crushed. I dont consider myself pessimistic, just sensitive. Im alright waiting though, just gonna let it play out. If it is PGA, great news for all though. Now THAT will be a field day for you little tinkerers.

 

He's talking about undervolting, not underclocking.

There's a difference, and if you don't know how it works I would suggest you stop giving faulty advice. No flame, just don't write if you don't know.

Battery drain = req. voltage. Not current Mhz. There are programs you can use for undervolting, some even automatic nowadays! (Kids! They have it easy!) But, lower voltage often means you have to lower your frequency, unless what you want is overheating/destroyed cpu.

Bottom line regarding any user modification to frequency and/or voltage - read up. Don't ask beginner questions - if you do - you shouldn't be thinking of modification in the first place.

In all wellmeaning,
f

Pssst: I'm EAGERLY awaiting first hands on reviews, temp and bench data..

 

So, uhh... i5 or i7? *shot*

 

I am by no means an under or over clocking expert. However I have been an engineer for over 30 years and I do know a little about how electronic circuitry works. The bottom line is that the types of circuits that are used in microprocessors use basically no current when they are static (not clocking) AT ANY VOLTAGE!.
The thing that causes dissipation is the rate at which you ask them to switch. If you ask something to switch at 3GHz vs 2GHz, you are asking the gate to get where it's going in 333 picoSeconds vs 500pSec (a lot more quickly). Here is where voltage comes into play. If where you want to go is from 0V to 0.8V versus 0V to 1.0V then the lower voltage represents a shorter distance to travel (and therefore results in less current required and less heat).
It is incorrect to say that it is only the one or only the other. This is how they interact.
In summary: It is the speed that causes the current draw, but lowering the voltage mitigates. (This is why the Original 5V 60MHz Pentiums were called coffee warmers whereas the 3V 90MHz ran cool).

 

To take your example: How can the 60Mhz run warm and 90Mhz run cool if it's the Mhz that generates the heat? The answer..? It is *always* the volt that generates heat.

I think I know how you think, and yes of course highter frequency requires higher voltage, ergo higher consumtion = battery drain. So far I think we're all in agreement.

But you ARE able to purchase a i7, underclock and under volt (the last one particularly important) to i5 values, and therefore *saving* on battery drain. You ARE able to underclock/volt your CPU down to, let's say, 1Ghz and then the lowest voltage. This saving LOTS of battery juice.

Then, when you want to, you can clock/volt up again to standard i7 freq/volt.

Understand?

So - buy i5 or i7?

I'm still waiting for some tests before I decide...

Edit:
Want to add for my side also: I am by no means an under or over clocking expert.
And I wouldn't recommend anyone to do any under/over clocking/volting without knowing their theory before.

 

After scouring this thread, I still don't have conclusive answers to my three biggest questions about this machine.

1. Can the ridiculous Sony SSD setup be skipped? I've got a G2 Intel X25-M I want to bring over, and even if Sony's setup does prove to be superior in the long run I've got no interest in paying for it. Even if you do have to pay for the Sony SSD(s), is it a standard 2.5" SATA drive bay?
2. Can the optical drive be swapped for a 2.5" SATA hard drive bay? Would be great to toss a 640GB mechanical disk in that bay.
3. Are we looking at another Alps touchpad? Any word on multitouch gestures? ThinkPads and MacBooks support multitouch, so you'd expect a machine priced this sky-high to support it too.

Naturally, the Engadget review doesn't touch on any of this stuff. Pretty typical crappy Joanna Stern reviewing where none of the details that make or break the system for enthusiasts are addressed.

 

honestly speaking, there none in depth review done.. i guess the reviewers have sorta contract with sony to not publish the flaw not until the product officially on sale. say, if the consumer know the upcoming product have a lot flaws they certainly avoid the product which is not even on sale yet and of course, this would affect the sony sales..

just my 2 cents. seem like we gotta wait until the product is officially launch and on sale.

 

@ kalibar

1. Yes, but only if you import from japan/china. They offer a 320gb standard hdd option with no ssd. This option also removes the optical drive, so one would assume they have a slot in replacement which holds the standard hdd, leaving the spot the sony ssd frankenstein normally goes empty.....

I think that answers question 2.

as to 3. No idea sorry.

My plan is just like you, I already own a g2 intel x25, so Im prob gonna grab a z from conics.net (japanese imorter with waranty options) with the 320gb drive, and 1080p screen, will wait for proper reviews and make the "processor vs battery" decision.... should come in at about $2200 US.... which seems pretty nice. It also means I can forgoe the fingerprint reader and crappy webcam, which I would never use anyway.

 

rem to check back on this review

http://www.geekmontage.com/sony-vaio-sony-vaio-vpcz1190x-cto-vpcz114gxs-vpczzx9eb-review-on-its-way/

 

I hope you're not right because I really want a flawless laptop with that price.

 

wait at least a month until proper reviews and user opinions are out. until then, no-one knows - we have useless fluff articles from Engagdet and 300+ pages of speculation (albeit from some clued-up individuals) in this thread

 

there is no such thing as a flawless laptop at any price. the old Z cost a fortune and had many issues in many areas, but was still loved by many and at the time occupied a quite unique space. the new z looks like it will reclaim that space but naturally there will be a ton of niggles that may or may not get resolved with 4/5 refreshes during it's two-year lifespan...

 

No such thing exists.

And you're not even in the right section of the store -- the "consumer performance" section doesn't sell on quality. Try Panasonic instead. The flaws will be fewer, but your wallet lighter and your arms longer.

 

With most Lenovos and some Dells, I know you can hotswap, simply because you can forgo the CD/DVD player and have two batteries instead. And some older laptops came with pretty huge capacitors and low power consumptions, giving you time to swap the battery while it ran. But can you hotswap the battery of a Z? I thought it would shut down immediately when removing the battery?

Bah, aliens are red herrings. Everybody knows it's the governments that scan your computer.
It could be due to the new wireless file transfer or old FeliCa, which shouldn't be picked up by a rouge receiver glued to the underside of your desk. But that would imply that Sony actually thought long and hard about security, which would be a stretch. More likely, it's simply due to regulations ("this device must accept all radio frequencies blah blah") or manufacturing processes (protecting a worker from burning his hand on parts still red hot from auto-soldering, for example). Without gemba access, who knows.

 

Hey guys, JR.com has 3 configuration:

- Sony VAIO® VPCZ114GX/S 13.1" Z Series Notebook PC
Intel Core i5-520M 2.40GHz / 4GB RAM / 192GB SSD / DVD±R/RW / Hybrid Graphics (GeForce GT 330M & Intel HD)/ 802.11AGN / Bluetooth / Windows 7 Professional

- Sony VAIO® VPCZ118GX/S 13.1" Z Series Notebook PC
Intel Core i5-540M 2.53GHz / 4GB RAM / 384GB SSD / DVD±R/RW / Hybrid Graphics (GeForce GT 330M & Intel HD)/ 802.11AGN / Bluetooth / Windows 7 Professional

- Sony VAIO® VPCZ116GX/S 13.1" Z Series Notebook PC
Intel Core i5-520M 2.40GHz / 4GB RAM / 256GB SSD / DVD±R/RW / Hybrid Graphics (GeForce GT 330M & Intel HD)/ 802.11AGN / Bluetooth / Windows 7 Professional

I'v decided that one of these configurations is perfect for me, as I don't need the i7, as the speed difference isn't noticeable and I do favor battery life. Also, don't need a Blu-ray, as I would rather watch it on a large screen and the PS3. Seriously 500$ for a Blu-ray drive? That's 200 dollars more than a PS3. I would like 8GB of ram, but even with 4 in the past, even for gaming it was enough. I called them up, and the rep said these would be available next week.

Debating between the i5-520M and i5-540M, I almost want to take the former, as again speed isn't that much of a difference and just save some money for some extras like the battery and that slick leather case.

 

Also, is this extended battery compatible with the new Z? http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...53981&storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10551

And this case, almost seems like a must-have, to avoid scratches: http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...86587&storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10551

 

I'm guessing he meant just power down/up. Boot time with an SSD is quite minimal.

 

As patchseven said to 1&2, outside of the USA (e.g. Europe or Japan) there are HDD models, which come without optical drive. The hard drive can probably be changed, but we don't know any details yet (how easy/hard it is, can it accomodate an SSD and an HDD, etc.)

To 3: It was mentioned earlier in this thread, that the new Z uses a Synaptics touchpad, on which you can set multitouch gestures.

 

The new Z is compatible with the BPL20...

I personally think that the case is nice - mainly if you don't buy a premium carbon lid and/or you don't dock.

 

New Z has it's own BPS20 and BPL20 battery and latter (large capacity) isn't compatible with leather cover.

 

1. 
   
   I don't think it fits, which is why I think I'm going to put my pennies towards the 600GB intel SSD when that arrives (hopefully early Q4 >.<). I figure that being able to work entirely from the SSD will provide more of a speed boost in general than the faster processor/graphics card.
   
   Of course, if photoshop/lightroom suddenly get huge speed increases from CUDA I might change my mind.
   
   And the 512GB isn't even available to me locally, that makes the new Z easier to resist.

 

Thats the same battery from the Core 2/NVidia 9300 generation Z. Im using one right now, but just click on the "compatibility" tab right off that link and you can see it.

 

I have an OCZ Vertex in my current Z. Unless something changed dramatically with the case, which seems extremely unlikely since the extended battery fits, I'd bet that any after market 2.5" drive will fit.

 

I prefer to believe my own eyes rather than Sony's website full of ridiculous mistakes.

 

I consider this a real, full, review:

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/laptops/355384/sony-vaio-vpcz11z9e-b

Has it been written off for some reason? PC Pro is good and thats the new Z.

 

What's the photo on the right? Is that a US Z? Right now, as far as I know, overseas is the only place the Z has been available. Have the EU/Asian Z series always had the exact same case/battery as the US?

 

Post #1668 had this review and a few important technical questions still remain. Pro reviewers should have answered some of the questions that linger about the SSD's but didn't. These answers won't be known until the real reviewers on this forum get their hands on the new Z and rip it apart in the pursuit of answers. But thank you though.

 

Why do you think the old extended battery fits?

The old Z used to look like the left (including in Singapore and the UK), the new Z would appear to be the one on the right.

I'm really not sure why they stuck with "Z". It's really almost a completely new model. Maybe because there wasn't a dramatic difference in physical appearance/size, and the Z sold well/had reasonable reviews

 

There are several issues with the new Z series...
1. the i7 will cause excessive heat
2. the SSD does not have TRIM support (gradual performance degradation)
3. the lack of a hard drive when customizing is disappointing
(500GB 7200RPM would be a better choice)
The price would be significantly lower and performance would be more reliable.
4. Low battery life in speed mode
5. Crazy resolution (1920x1080 on a 13.1" screen! 1600x900 is already large enough!)

The high price does not justify a minor increase in quality.

 

Buy a Vaio S, which can be configured with i5, non-SSD for self replacement with an SSD, perhaps slightly longer battery life and lower resolution. Or just buy some other brand?

 

Ok, grandpa.

 

Perhaps you should heed your own advice mate

I'll try and explain it the easiest way possible. Think of your processor as a car engine. The Mhz are the RPMS of the Engine, the Voltage is the Fuel that feeds it and the battery is the gas tank.

In order for you engine to increase the RPM's it requires more fuel. While it is idling it requires very little fuel. At any given RPM the engine requires an optimal amount of fuel in order to operate properly, too little fuel and it will run lean and detonate, too much fuel and it will run rich and bog down. You can't just lean out the fuel supply in order to save gas. In order to save gas you would need to limit the RPM of the engine so that it did not require as much fuel to operate and does not suck as much fuel out of the gas tank.

A processor works much the same way, in order to operate at higher MHZ it requires more voltage while it is idling it requires very little voltage. At any given MHZ it requires a certain amount of voltage to operate, too little voltage and the computer crashes, too much voltage and it just generates extra heat. You can't just lower the voltage in order to save battery life. In order to save battery life you must limit the MHZ of the processor so that it does not require as much voltage to operate and does not pull as much current from the battery.

 

Thank you! Nice explanation there

 

1. I'm also hesitating between the i5-540M and the i7-620M, because I don't know how well the i7 will perform in the new Z, but let's wait for the (user) reviews to see if that's really an issue. Hopefully not.
2. Maybe you can use the SSDs as JBOD and have TRIM. Btw. old Vaio Z (and other models, too) owners already have RAID configs and AFAIK didn't report problems.
3. That's just in the USA. In the rest of the world, where you have CTO, you have HDD option as well (but there's no optical drive).
4. Use stamina mode if you're on batteries and need longer battery life. Otherwise plug it in.
5. I agree, but some people can take good use of the full HD resolution. The others, including me, can take the 1600x900 screen. I'd be happy though, if there was a 1366x768 option as well.

So the only possible issues I see are still speculations. We can't say anything for sure, until people get the laptops.

 

You're right in a theoratical sense, if processors are made exactly to specification without any tolerences. However, there is manufacturing variability in the real world, and rarely are processors perfect.

This means that processor designs are "overbuilt", they are designed to work at better than spec (in terms of your analogy, they burn less fuel per mile than specified). Basically, some processors can work at the original speed even though they're undervolted.

It is quite common for this to be true on C2D/Athlon chips see, for example, the undervolting guide at e.g. http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=235824

The difference between current gen ULV and CULV chips are probably just binning, rather than different processor design (this is speculation).

One other issue with your analogy is (I think) that microprocessors don't tend to use "more" or "less" voltage. There tend to voltages in sets of two - corresponding to binary 1 and 0 respectively. There are more than one set of voltage levels in more complex chips, but the voltage is generally not continuously variable like gas intake in an automobile. I can't find a link atm showing this, unfortunately.

 

The quality of the S series is even worse. Poor display quality, poor battery life and power-hungry graphics makes it irrelevant to what I'm looking for.

 

No need to be rude. If you actually care for your eyesight and want to protect your eyes from needless strain, you would understand the point I'm trying to make.

Besides, not everyone watches movies on their notebook all the time. Even with DPI scaling, it is not worth the hassle. For productivity purposes, it can be quite inconvenient. Even a resolution of 1600x900 on a 13.1" display is on the edge.

 

Yes that is why I say "optimal voltage" and not "factory voltage" Let's not forget the discussion is regarding i5-540m vs i7-620m in which the only differences are a higher operating frequency and extra 1 meg of cache for the 720. In this instance the i7 will always use more battery than the i5 due to the higher operating frequency.

There will always be variables, some processors will run better than others but getting a good one is much like winning the lottery

 

Hm. Do you agree that a i7 is likely to be a better processor than an i5, given binning? If so, doesn't it make sense to just get the i7, then undervolt it (to reduce power consumption without sacrificing performance?)