New Z model with Intel Core i5 CPU

Ooooooh...that's quite brave.

I've fixed up at least 30 over desktops in the past and built hardcore machines for myself.
But when it comes to notebooks like the VAIOs...I start to shiver.

The SZ was still reasonable to open up and I was already freaked out because I screwed up the gyro sensor for the HDD last time.

When I think about opening the Z...I push the thought away totally.
Maybe it's the age...I no longer think I'm invincible.

Nor do I have time to sort out a mess over 2 weeks if I need my computer for work.

 

Wiping doesn't help a system that doesn't have TRIM.
And the SSDs are Samsung...not Idilinx based. So they are very likely to not have TRIM.

From Anand:
"The largest SSD maker in the world is Samsung. Samsung makes the drives offered by Apple in its entire MacBook/MacBook Pro lineup. Samsung makes the drives you get if you order a Lenovo X300. In fact, if you're buying any major OEM system with an SSD in it, Samsung makes that drive.

It's just too bad that those drives aren’t very good."

"Speedy, but not earth shattering. Now let's look at performance once every LBA has been written to. This is the worst case scenario performance we've been testing for the past year:


...and now we're down to mechanical hard drive speeds
[Graph showing how bad the Samsungs are...]
Holycrapbbq? Terrible.

Now to be fair to Samsung, this isn’t JMicron-terrible performance. It’s just not worth the money performance."

"I talked to some of the vendors who ship Samsung RBB based SSDs and got some sales data. They simply can’t give these drives away. The Indilinx based drives outsell those based on the Samsung RBB controller by over 40:1. If end users are smart enough to choose Indilinx and Intel, why aren't companies like Apple and Lenovo?[- And Sony???? added by me]

Don't ever opt for the SSD upgrade from any of these OEMs if you've got the option of buying your own Indilinx or Intel drive and swapping it in there. If you don't know how, post in our forums; someone will help you out.

Samsung realized it had an issue with its used-state performance and was actually the first to introduce background garbage collection; official TRIM support will be coming later. Great right? Not exactly.

There’s currently no way for an end user to flash the firmware on any of these Samsung drives. To make matters worse, there’s no way for companies like OCZ or Corsair to upgrade the firmware on these drives either. If you want a new firmware on the drive, it has to go back to Samsung. I can’t even begin to point out how ridiculous this is."

 

This is relatively old info. Samsung has already released firmware that supports TRIM on their newer drives (that users can download and install - no need to ship back to Samsung), and the firmware for the Z's drives appears to be later still. I think there's a very good chance the drives will support TRIM.

-Peter

 

Well, maybe there were some improvements in Samsung drives since that article and the release of the new Z.

 

Thanks Peter!

I'm going to get the Z quad SSDs if I get TRIM. Skip on it otherwise.
It's the decision maker for me right now.

 

The new Z-series does come with a blu-ray burner option.

 

I have not used a desktop in over a decade.....and don't intend to use it either. I am an exclusive laptop user too.

 

As mentioned above, this is very old information. Also, there is no monolithic "Samsung SSD", since Samsung makes a TON of different SSD models, ranging from SLC models onto a variety of MLC models.

In addition to that, the Samsung models that are employed in Sony laptops are customized for Sony, which makes them different from all the models that they sell retail.....and the problem with this being that when Samsung releases firmware upgrades for their retail SSD models, they invariably cannot be used in the Samsung SSDs that Sony uses.

 

here's a recent anand link on the state of samsung.
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3747&p=5

the question for the z is which drive did we get, and whether some form of TRIM or GC will ever be possible, while the drives are in RAID. Arth1 is not optimistic about that part

 

Man, I'm just hoping there's an easy way (or even a slight hackjob way) to open up the Z, remove the ridiculous Sony SSD setup, and drop an X25-M in there. At least that way you could eBay the RAID'ed SSD to get some cash back.

 

Indonesia pricing...

VPC-Z115GG/BI
Available in Black with Silver Palmrest
Processor: Intel Core i5-540M Processor 2.53 GHz with Turbo Boost up to 3.06 GHz
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional (64-bit)
Memory: 4 GB DDR3 SDRAM (upgradeable up to 8 GB)
HDD: 500 GB (Serial ATA 7200 rpm)
Display: 13.1″ wide (WXGA++: 1600 x 900) TFT colour display (VAIO Display Premium, LED backlight)
Graphics Accelerator: NVidia GeForce GT 330M GPU with CUDA – 1 GB DDR3 SDRAM (SPEED MODE)
Optical Drive: DVDRW Double Layer
Bluetooth: Bluetooth standard Ver.2.1 + EDR
Fingerprint Sensor: Fingerprint
Camera: Effective Pixels 640 x 480
Weight: 1.42 Kg (including the supplied battery)
Warranty: 1 Year Warranty Sony Indonesia
Price: US$ 2,149

VPC-Z116GG/B
Available in Black with Black Palmrest
Processor: Intel Core i5-540M Processor 2.53 GHz with Turbo Boost up to 3.06 GHz
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional (64-bit)
Memory: 6 GB DDR3 SDRAM (upgradeable up to 8 GB)
Flash Memory: 128 GB (64 GB x 2, Serial ATA)
Display: 13.1″ wide (WXGA++: 1600 x 900) TFT colour display (VAIO Display Premium, LED backlight)
Graphics Accelerator: NVidia GeForce GT 330M GPU with CUDA – 1 GB DDR3 SDRAM (SPEED MODE)
Optical Drive: DVDRW Double Layer
Bluetooth: Bluetooth standard Ver.2.1 + EDR
Fingerprint Sensor: Fingerprint
Camera: Effective Pixels 640 x 480
Weight: 1.38 Kg (including the supplied battery)
Warranty: 1 Year Warranty Sony Indonesia
Price: US$ 2,299

VPC-Z117GG/X
Available in Carbon with Black Palmrest
Processor: Intel Core i7-620M Processor 2.66 GHz with Turbo Boost up to 3.33 GHz
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional (64-bit)
Memory: 8 GB DDR3 SDRAM (max)
Flash Memory: 256 GB (64 GB x 4, Serial ATA)
Display: 13.1″ wide (FullHD: 1920 x 1080) TFT colour display (VAIO Display Premium, LED backlight)
Graphics Accelerator: NVidia GeForce GT 330M GPU with CUDA – 1 GB DDR3 SDRAM (SPEED MODE)
Optical Drive: DVDRW Double Layer
Bluetooth: Bluetooth standard Ver.2.1 + EDR
Fingerprint Sensor: Fingerprint
Camera: Effective Pixels 640 x 480
Weight: 1.41 Kg (including the supplied battery)
Warranty: 1 Year Warranty Sony Indonesia
Price: US$ 2,899

The high end Z is stupidly overpriced... I think they wanted to get a good profit out of it... Z116 pricing is in sync with Hong Kong pricing which seems to be the best choice.

Pre-order today and pick it up by 6 March this Saturday they said...

 

Wait, you can have BOTH the HDD AND the optical drive?

 

The same Z config (CTO) in the UK costs around US$3700 ($3800 with WWAN). So it's not that bad

 

The first option...what is this ?

 

There's no optical drive listed in the specs on the official Sony Asia site, so it's probably a typo.

 

OK, then. We've gone from "what's this RAID SSD all about", to "hmmm, there might be problems with it" to "damn, I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole."

And none of it based on first hand knowledge or hard data points.

Pretty spectacular if you ask me.

 

For those who had a chance to play with it (sorry, don't have time to read all 337 pages) - did sony fix the battery drain issue and the diagonal lines bug on the screen that all Zs had?

 

I grabbed the details off an Indonesian Blog.

I will confirm later during the day with the Salesman.

 

in Hong Kong it's US$2499... it might pay off the air ticket?

 

I think a lot of us were at the "ten foot pole" conclusion from the get-go, we were just waiting to find out whether Sony's SSD can be skipped entirely on CTO. I've got a hard time believing under any stretch of the imagination that Sony has somehow dreamed up a drastically superior SSD solution to the X25-M G2 and the Indilinx-based drives -- drives that have already proven themselves to be superior to their competitors, and ludicrously popular aftermarket upgrades for anyone looking to add a kick to their laptop.

Picking an SSD is something we want to have full control over, not something to have hastily forced along with the already super-expensive system. I was just hoping we'd be able to knock a big chunk off the price and get the Z with an empty slot (or an 80GB throwaway hard drive). As it stands, it sounds like the only way to get an X25-M into the Z is going to be through the optical slot.

Many, many laptops (including the 2009 Z) have a 2.5" slot and an optical drive that can be turned into a second 2.5" slot. There was really no good reason for Sony to go messing with this.

 

I was initially happy (that the Z can possibly accommodate both) and sad (that I may fail to alter my order), but now I'm sad (that the Z probably can't) and happy (that I don't have to). It's a zero-sum game

 

lol sorry... looking at the Asia website... yeah it's probably a typo...

 

This was from another user's earlier post:

Originally Posted by dimension6

Somewhat more than speculation, yes?

 

I disagree. I think this is the most beautiful notebook in the world and it also looks similar to our Z

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/smartbooks-laptops-hands-on-a-macbook-and-a-vaio-walk-into-a-b/

 

I agree. Maybe the nay-sayers are right, and then again maybe its the tendency toward hysteria that permeates our time. Interesting reading though. I'm new to the thread. Did a lot of people have bad experiences with the last generation of Z-Series SSD drives?

 

It's not about the performance of Sony's SSD (which I'm sure will be "fine"), it's about them taking away the choice. If you drop 1900 bucks on a 2010 Z with the base config, you can't decide a few months later that you want a bigger/faster/different SSD or that you'd rather just throw a hard drive in there.

The ability to replace drives with reasonably standard aftermarket options (2.5" SATA drives) is one of the few freedoms laptop customers have. It's never going to be a good thing when that's taken away, and I think that's where the general backlash toward the ridiculous SSD configs comes from.

Give that Sony charges an extra $200 USD per 64GB of SSD that you add to the $1900 CTO Z, that suggests to us that nearly $400 of markup is built into the machine when you get it with the base level 128GB SSD. So you've got customer-unfriendly bundling, and you've got the (presumed) inability to swap in something else aftermarket.

It's not enough to sink the Z for me -- I'll just put my X25-M in the optical bay and use the bundled 128GB SSD for extra storage. It's just a big, filthy skidmark on an otherwise near-flawless system.

 

Hi rmcx,

I'm one of the guys who's been harping about the RAID SSD thing so perhaps I should clarify it. The key thing is the function called TRIM. Without that functionality, the SSDs can lose up to 3 times the speed and you're better off with a very high end HDD considering the crazy premiums you're paying for the SSD combo. Also, when the SSDs are set up in a RAID array, there's been no solutions in the world right now that allows TRIM.

And yes, none of that is confirmed right now. I was just stressing about it because it makes such a huge difference plus Sony hasn't said anything about it at the moment.

We're waiting for some brave people to start giving feedback.

 

Wow, that's a very nice and detailed explanation about the Intel and Indilinx solutions and they're in my thoughts exactly too.

Thanks for putting in such a better way compared to my posts, my fruit loving friend.

 

We don't know the size of the SSDs yet, maybe a 1.8" drive (or a 1.8" SSD without the case) with a proper interface adapter could fit inside.

 

Very interesting opinion, thanks!

I just ordered my Sony New Z and I learned many things during my (long) discusion with Vaio rep in BicCamera Japan.

Originally I said I would wait for saturday release to get one. The model on sale in Japan was indeed very close to my needs and I could already tried it during one hour last saturday.

Howver, I learned very useful information from the VAIO rep. On the 6th (official date but the rep told me it would be 5th), they will have display model but they have zero expected qty in stock from Sony at the moment. He is not saying they would be no quantity BUT it's very very limited and it's not possible to reserve (because they can only count on display model).

Another thing is, the WAN modem in Japan exclusively works with NTT docomo 3g system. Forget about emobile it won't works...So I decided to switch (and have a rebate of 320 bucks for starting new contract) to docomo. However, 3G Docomo doesn't allow peer to peer, skype or online gaming!!! I just find out before to sign!
Wimax also require exclusive subscription...

Now, some positive things. You can add 2 coupons during your purchaze. One is working each time you create a new Sony Style Japan account (I did twice already) and the vaio rep has a 2000 yen coupon you can freely ask. So this is only 6000 yens but it's not bad in my book.

So I decided to order my PC. I didn't want to wait end April and I want it as soon as possible so I changed my configuration quiet a lot.

Glossy premium carbon has a 4 weeks delay. Backlight keyboard as a 4 weeks delay. i7 620 has a 3 weeks delay. SSD 256 Quad has a 3 weeks delay (512 is fine though ).

I took this :

*i5 520
* 4gb
* Premium carbon black
* L battery
* 512 gbytes HDD
* stick adapter

I paid 171,800 yens (1953 USD) for the whole PC. Delivery is expected March 17th. It's two weeks after official retail release but I am sure to get one...

One useful tip for people trying to order without success. the vaio rep was clicking and refreshing the order page like crazy. He has been doing it maybe a hundred time before my order was accepted.
So don't try only once, try plenty of time.

Concerning the SSD debate... Intel is planning 600gbytes SSD for the end of the year. I know that Vaio notebook has the reputation to be hard to unmount.
But as you can see on PC users Japanese report, withouth the CD drive there is a lot of space. I checked the new Z last week end and I could clearly feel the space on the right where the DVD reader is supposed to be. I will immediately check on this when I receive the PC but I think it's reasonable to think the non-SSD version are going to welcome more easily a 2.5 HDD/SSD without the DVD read/writer.

If people are trying to buy on Saturday, I highly suggest to ask Vaio rep on Friday. They will receive the display model and I suppose they will know if they have any qty for the next day.
Also some shop might start to sell on Friday/Saturday midnight...I don't have confirmation but Tsukumo/Sofmap often does this.

 

Actually, the 'key thing' is the potential toward degradation of SSD's, of which TRIM is a currently favored solution. Lack of TRIM is not in and of itself a necessary failure point. For lack of more information, it only appears that way.

 

Actually, on my SZ, I believe that replacing the HDD invalidated the warranty. i.e. you had no more 'legitimate' aftermarket remedy then than you do now.

But I do agree on that: that Sony should be making secondary storage easier to work with.

 

*sighs*

Maybe I should just wait another month... I don't want to buy it (knowing I need it for threeish years) only for me to pick some configuration that will eventually become ultra slow.

This is what I would get if everything went poifect:
i7
Windows 7 Home
Premium Carbon Fiber
192 GB SSD
6 GB RAM
1600x900 screen
DVD drive
Large battery
3-year accidental warranty (I'm known for utterly destroying my laptops)

 

I am also ordering Z from Japan and I am hoping to be able to unlock WWAN at some point.

" However, 3G Docomo doesn't allow peer to peer, skype or online gaming!!!"

So not only they lock WWAN but they also choose provider that will stop you from using skype. Why did they even bother putting that modem in the new Z

 

Yes, everything here is really locked down. Japanese companies love having as much control as they can have over their products/services. As for myself, I just use Softbank with an iPhone 3GS (as much as I dislike Apple). Bluetooth/WiFi tethering works just fine for me (and so does Skype through 3G!), but I would suggest a separate 3G/WiMax connection if you're planning to use it a lot.

Sounds good. It's interesting the regular adapter currently has a lead time of 2 weeks!

The poor rep! I forgot they have to go through the whole ordering process as we do...

 

The lack of a 3G modem in the Z is losing icing on a cake for me since I would only use remote broadband for work purposes and not for intensive gaming where the speed and response is important.

At the moment, I've very successfully used the iPhones to tether and they work beautifully. Apples and Oranges working together. I only need one SIM card for this whole thing.

 

It definitely does.
Anytime you open up your notebook, your warranty is void.
That is why kalibar raised the frustration of why Sony wouldn't give us the option have having just one high end SSD in the first place.

I'm very likely to buy extended warranties for a high end notebook and that would also mean I'm crippled in attempting any disecting of the notebook for those number of years. Not that I would look forward to trying it either. Replacing a faulty HDD on one of my SZs scared the crap out of me.

 

Can you provide a link to this video you are referring to?

 

Read the posts of nutman how he modded his Z (e.g. silver heatsink) and how he takes it apart each week and you'll have nightmares tonight

 

This was the official video posted about the Quad SSDs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEOd8hbYf0E

(Is there another one?)

 

@dimension6

Can you please tell me is it possible to place the order even if instead of estimated date you have message 入荷未定 - (arrival of goods is pending).

I am trying to check it but since SonyStyle server is currently struggling for breath I am not sure if server is failing or you simply can't place the order if status is "arrival of goods is pending".

 

Yeah...
nutman is nuts man...

 

Yes, in addition to the official one you point out...

Benchmark: Copy a file on Sony Vaio Z series (SSD raid 0 vs. HDD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1ASbjg5LOI

 

Well now I'm confused . The implication, from reading your post, was that you had seen a video which clearly showed the Sony quad ssd to be 'bollocks" as you say. I watched both those videos and what they show is the exact opposite, that the quad ssd is way faster....

So I guess I am completely missing whatever point you are trying to make.

 

I think his point is that the video shows an unfair comparison - a quad SSD RAID0 setup vs. a 5400 rpm drive. Better to show the quad SSD RAID0 vs. a high-end SSD (like the Intel). When both are standalone, the Intel drive is quite a bit faster than current OEM Samsung drives.

My take - with quad Samsung drives, Sony gets very good performance, very good capacity (for SSD), at a decent $/GB (for SSD). But at the cost of possible performance degradation down the road (TRIM), and reliability (if any one of the 4 drives fail, all data is lost).

-Peter

 

Our network admin goes into SZ's fearlessly. He put a low-end SSD in one of them, but isn't terribly bothered by what might happen down the road; it's not a primary machine for him.

 

I don't think I'd want Sony selling me even a high-end SSD. You've seen what laptop manufacturers charge for drive and RAM upgrades; it's terrible. You always want to buy that stuff aftermarket.

"Voiding the warranty" to replace a drive really isn't a problem so long as the actual swap can be done and undone in a way that never shows you were in there. I think a lot of folks here will agree with that.

 

Hmmm... and from comparison to a 5400 rpm drive we jump to the bollocks conclusion... I really don't buy it. I can see why people say that hysteria is starting to rule around here.

I get the argument that we may end up with a lack-of-trim induced slowdown eventually. But to argue that comparing a 5400 rpm drive to ssd raid 0 somehow shows the whole design to be 'bollocks' is beyond anything reasonable. Yes, obviously, the delta to a 7200 rpm drive would be less, and the delta to a fast ssd would be even less. But lets face it, it is in fact faster than either of those, and by quite a bit.

So I don't get it. When I read comments like "I saw this video and it clearly showed me that the whole design is bollocks" and then it turns out that it was just an issue that they were comparing to a hard drive instead of to another ssd, that gives me the impression of folks becoming a bit disconnected (no, not you psyang).

 

Ok, you're asking for it: 'viola' could be French too... but in this case, it would mean 'raped'... Talk about some formating !

And that's it for me on the international-bad-taste-misinterpreted-out-of-context-pun subject, back to your regularly scheduled programming

PS: Sorry Arth, you've been the ultimate know it all on this thread so on that one fully inconsequential post, I couldn't resist. It's all tongue in cheek, no disrespect of course

 

Hi Oscar,

I don't get you...

I wrote
"The moment I saw the video on Quad SSD vs 5400rpm drives, I knew it was bollocks and Sony should really be kicked for that. "

How did that ever become
"I saw this video and it clearly showed me that the whole design is bollocks"

psyang was trying to explain what I meant to you and now you're saying there's hysteria?

All I was saying is that comparing quad SSDs to a 5400rpm HDD is like racing a turbocharged EVO against a 1.5litre NA car and saying that the EVO is a better car. It's Apples and Oranges. And done out of creating marketing hype. Just like I said.

A 5400rpm HDD is a low end HDD which shouldn't be used to as a comparison against SSDs in the first place. Please read the other posts in the thread.

Before you find yourself being "a bit disconnected"