New Z model with Intel Core i5 CPU

it is classic sony...they infuriate and delight in equal measurable...so inscrutable...but who else is out there? sony, somehow, still own the game despite repeatedly dropping the ball...

tutorials from the get would be great - a steadyshot hd video coupled with some essential stills should do it - show us how to open the z without leaving a trace or messing anything up and we'll love you forever nuttyman

 

I can't seem to find a good comparo between the older C2D processors and the new i5/i7 mobile specs as far as the Vaio Z's are concerned.

I currently have a Z690, with a P8700, Intel SSD, 4 GB RAM. How much of a speed increase will I really see with a i7-620m? By comparing pure proc benchmarks, it doesn't seem like a lot (from www.notebookcheck.net). The i7 processor also consumes more power (35 vs. 25?), even though it's a smaller die process.

The auto graphics switching and all are nice... but not sure if it's really worth the cash at this point. No USB 3.0 is also a deterrent.

Any advice?

 

There're some posts from people that had ability to see Z in real life (showcase in Japan/Europe). Holding any enclosure for more than 3 minutes is enough to make subjective observations regarding build quality.

It's June 23th, Wednesday. It's snowing. Helicopters are flying very close to the ground and cause panic. But who cares?

 

The i7 consumes more power because the IGP is built into it but your c2d has a seperate die for the integrated gfx and chipset. Overall the i7 consumes probably 5w less than the c2d.

On another note, the default 128gb is just one drive and would support trim?

 

In most benchmarks the i5 540m (2,4ghz?) is faster or equal to about the fastest dualcores available (t9900 3.something ghz). So the i7 620m will probably even rise some above that.

the power consumtion they mention there is the TDP, this isn't the power it's using, but more of a reference for type of cooling needed (heat and all). It would probably use less than 35watt's most of the time.

But i don't think you really gonna notice the CPU difference, except when your encoding stuff (or something that requires horse power).

The default 128GB SSD isn't one drive, which has been mentioned before. The 128GB model is 2x64GB (costum made) on one drive. So it's physically one drive, but it actually exists of two 64GB sides.

 

128gb is a double sided, single drive dual raid setup. Without raid it will be seen as 2 individual 64gb drives

192gb is a single sided 64gb drive plus a single sided 128gb drive for dual raid setup. without raid wll be seen as a 64gb drive and a 128gb drive.*

256gb is 2 double sided 128gb drives for quad raid setup. without raid will be seen as 4 individual 64gb drives

512gb is 2 doube sided 256g drives for quad raid. Without raid will be seen as 4 individual 128gb drives.

* some believe it is a single sided 64gb drive plus dual sided 128gb drive. This however would not work for dual raid as that setup will be seen as 3 64gb drives.

Therefore I think 192gb setup should be an optimal choice for those that want to set them up as jbod with 64gb becoming system drive and 128gb for data. 256g wouldbe too inconvenient with 4 separate 64gb drives.

 

The main speed boost will likely be for the graphics card. The 330M is in a completely different class than the old 9300GS-M

As for USB 3.0, you can get an ExpressCard34 for that. Well, with only 1x PCIe speed on the ExpressCard that Sony uses, you'll "only" get around 60% of full USB 3.0 speed that way, but that's still not bad.

 

Striping ("RAID 0") doesn't require that the number of drives is an exponent of 2 - you can stripe 3 drives.

 

But can you still setup dual raid with 3 drives though?

 

The problem in using a 64GB and a 128GB drive as you say in RAID0 will result in the drives being seen as 2x64GB as it uses the smallest drive to stripe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_RAID_levels#RAID_0

So I guess 192GB will consist of 3x64GB drives. So triple RAID 0.

 

I see, I guess I was misinformed by sony sales person who told me that 128gb and 192gb options are dual raid whereas the 256 a 512 are quads.

 

The speculation on the Z's SSD solution is driving me nuts. I've gotta stop looking in this thread until people have the machines in hand and are disassembling them.

 

For answers about RAID configurations based on X number of drives and y number of GB on each try this handy calculator.
Remember, the controller on the Z can do RAID 0, 1, JBOD
http://raidcalculator.icc-usa.com/

 

Nope, guess the Quad-SSD is just a nice marketing term, but the 128 and 192 can't be anything else then dual and triple RAID. Unless they use 4x32GB for 128GB, but I can't imagine that.

 

Cool, makes sense. I guess i'm just going to have to get used to having 2x64gb drives for data.

Would have been nice if the 256gb option was a single double sided drive instead of 2 double sided drives but I guess sony needs to have "quad ssd" for marketing purposes on that preconfigured model.

 

Well, in the good old days you could order an English or a French computer. I have an original prebuilt SZ, bought in Canada, and it's English only. But then Sony decided they didn't want to maintain two SKUs, and combined the keyboards into one.

Here's an example from a year ago (not mine or my photo). Note how it's not even a US-style keyboard layout (Enter key size and position, backslash position, extra key by "Z"). Take a look at the labels on the four system keys, upper right. Note how many keys have *five* labels on them. It's a rainbow of confusion.

http://i452.photobucket.com/albums/qq245/torontoguyyy/DSCN0086.jpg

 

If it's a standard ICH-based Intel Software Matrix softraid, it should also be able to do RAID 5 (3 or 4 drives) and 01 (4 drives only).

 

Arth, I suppose it should but based on this chart I dunno
http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/imsm/sb/CS-022304.htm
The controller on the VGN-Z is an ICH9M-E
I cannot find any other mobile implementation that supports more than 2 drives.
My guess is Sony is using the same controller but has resorted to something like a built-in Photofast Evolution to bind the sandwiched SSDs thus delivering two physical SATA channels to the controller.

I understand this will only complicate things further but there is no other solution unless both Samsung AND Intel update their websites with the new SSDs and matrix storage controllers respectively.
I suspect Sony has made a deal a-la Apple to keep the thing a secret until the product is out in the open.
See also: http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/imsm/sb/CS-028610.htm

Note: ICHxM is the designation for Centrino (mobile) chipsets. I was told so by some intel rep here in Greece but I don't really trust them.

 

So is the base config bad with the 128? I can't really afford the upgrades and the preconfigured set would allow me to use sone coupons to sweeten the deal!

 

When raid 0 is implemented on two drives, is each byte split across the two drives? If so, how is it handled in a 3 disk raid 0 (since bytes don't cleanly split into 3)? Sequential bytes alternate between all the drives?

 

Not to add fuel to the RAID/TRIM fire, but I was revisiting some of the old threads I posted regarding RAID and TRIM support. The last post in this German thread seems to indicate that he was able to run the wiper command on a RAID array with recent drivers. The wiper command, as I understand it, manually issues the TRIM command to the disk controller (as opposed to having the OS automatically issue it). If the post is accurate, then this implies that Intel's raid controller does support TRIM with the latest drivers.

-Peter

 

Putting a 128GB and 64GB drive in RAID 0 will end up with a 128GB striped volume and 64GB of wasted space on the 128GB drive. I don't think that's the case here, it's most likely 3 drives, one single sided one double sided.

 

You are correct. I have been corrected by other posters earlier in the thread. My incorrect conclusion came from the wrong information provided by sony reps who thought the configs were either dual or quad raid.

 

Another question came to my mind about RAID and TRIM:

As nutman said, it's possible to have a quad SSD RAID setup with 2 SSDs in RAID0 and the other 2 as JBOD.
If the SSDs will support TRIM, will the two JBOD SSDs in this configuration be able to use TRIM?

(And a more general question: if the Intel RAID controller is set to JBOD, i.e. all SSDs are JBOD, will TRIM work?)

 

That's re-assuring, not adding fuel. I love hearing good news.

 

More than likely. Big "if" though

 

Yes, theoretically possible.
But as nutman and arth have pointed out over their guesstimations, that ultimately depends on how Sony implemented the SSD sandwich, which I have come to call it.

They didn't just give 4 seperate SSDs. In their quest to half the size of each SSD, they sandwiched two of them together and we're now still speculating how that was done.

If it was just sticking two of them really close together without a controller in between. [i.e. They're still two seperate drives but stuck extremely close together] Then chances are very high you can treat them with the variety of setups you've described above.

If they were somehow hardware linked together with a controller...then it's anyone's guess now. But chances are very highly, no.

 

Well, I mustered up enough bravery to pull the trigger on the Z today. I'm coming off a rather prolific laptop buying spree, but I've had previous model of the Z and just love the form factor. FHD resolution and quad-SSD's in RAID 0 never hurt either

I would have preferred to buy the machine through CTO to get my own RAM and drop the blueray drive, but top of the line is top of the line.

Model: VPCZ11FHX/XQ
i7 620M
8GB RAM
512GB SSD
Blueray
Backlit keyboard

$5,238.98 with 3yr express ship, 2 day expedite and taxes.

Please say nice things about my awesomely frugal buying decision so I can justify why I just dropped twice the amount of money I spent on my first car for a laptop

Shipping estimate is 3/19

 

Hi Oscar,

You don't divide a byte into parts...you simply spread full them alternately into the drives. The actual amount comes down to how it was implemented by the controller [which could be hardware or software]

Your second suggestion of bytes being alternated is how RAID 0 works.

 

DAMN Zoinks!

That is so Awesomely Zoinky frugal of you! Congrats on your financial intelligence! I will not be too far away from your excellent decision too.

And it's such a good deal. You just need to give up two of your cars for one of the best notebooks in the world right now! It's carbon fibre too...stuff of the best cars in the world.

3 days...3 days. My source from Singapore is able to purchase it and bring it over to me in Australia next Thursday. Your views on the notebook will be crucial to me.

 

Yes, it's indeed a big if, but let's hope the best.

Would a 1-3 setup (i.e. 1 SSD as "JBOD" and 3 SSDs in RAID0) make any difference? The reason I ask is that I don't know whether the SSDs are just physically sandwiched together or if it's more complicated than that.

What I am considering to do is have a OS+applications drive with TRIM and use the other 3 SSDs in RAID0 for data (documents, music, etc.) storage. Hopefully with such a setup there would be no significant system stalls if the 3 SSDs will have degradation issues.

 

Wait...I just realised that you have the holy grail of FullHD, SSD and blu ray on your combo

I can't have that for Australia OR Singapore.
Is your configuration CTO?

I cannot imagine FullHD without blu ray. That's just like buying this biggest 52" plasma Full HD and showing it off to your family when you don't have any FullHD sources like HDDVD or blu ray.

 

Thanks. Sandwiching is what I was thinking about as well (and mentioned it in my previous post).

So again, the ultimate answer in this thread: we'll find out when some of us here get their Zs

 

Thanks for the info guys! Yes, I'm in the same boat! I'm this close to plunking down $2k for this 13" Macbook Pro killer!

 

ZoinksS2k I went with the same config for two Zs a few days before the specific model was available for preorder (I went through a "different" channel) and while that way I was guaranteed to be on the top of the list I still see 3/19 as the shipping estimate.

Intel as well as other controller manufacturers suggest that while the drives are in JBOD configuration the controller is transparent to the OS which should mean TRIM or other management implementation should work.
Yep, just confirmed it by installing two non RAID OCZ Vertex EX SSDs into the Z.
One contained an image of my OS I keep as backup so I just ran CrystalDiskInfo and I saw the TRIM feature is available as a supported feature.

 

It is preconfigured. You can't get the FHD screen through the CTO.

Rest assured, I will fully document and photograph the machine when it arrives.

I'm particularly interested in the SSD setup, so expect teardown photos and benchmarks galore. And yes, I will only run the SSD in RAID 0.

 

That's good news.
It'd be interesting to know whether this works, when just 1 drive is in JBOD and the others are in RAID0 (especially with taking Sony's sandwiching into consideration as well).

 

Have your shipping estimates changed at all? I canceled my previous Lenovo W510 due to MASSIVE delays in shipment. Lenovo blamed the delays on the LCD. Seems like most OEM's are having trouble getting high resolution units in any significant volume.

 

Ok, I feel better now

Post as many pictures as you can. I'll host them if you need me to.

 

To 2nd that...

Nutman, have you already swiped your current Z's HDD with an Intel or Indilinx SSD?
I've been having another window opened for two days just waiting to click on "Buy" but I wasn't sure whether I could fit it in. [Size and connector concerns.]

So I thought I'd wait until I got a new Z before proceeding to risk bringing down a system that was crucial to my work. I'd only have a weekend max to get it back up and running before the flood of mails and work come in on a Monday again.

[Post Edit: nutman already posted in a following post that he chucked not just one but two vertexes into his Z.]

 

I haven't even ordered it.
I'm waiting for your pictures. *laugh*

I've got a buddy flying in from Singapore...He will be buying the Z117 for me once I give the go ahead.

It's the double sandwiched SSDs [TRIM?] which is holding me back right now.

And you have no idea how envious I am to know that you actually get blu ray. I would easily pay more to have that upgrade since it's next to impossible for me to change my drive to a blu ray down the road.

 

Nutman.
That is BIG AND IMPORTANT great news for us. Really, THANKS.
Arth [or yourself?] pointed out that there have been screenies which shows that the 4 drives are seperate right?
So the likelihood of JBOD with TRIM is going to be very high if the Samsungs they chucked in there came with TRIM.

To go off subject for a moment...have you ever managed to salvage an old SSD without TRIM? I'm still sorta left hanging as to whether my old TZ's SSD can be rescued. Reading all the other tech sites so far has left me with no answers except a nagging feeling it's "No"

 

All this talk about sandwiches is seriously making me hungry.

Would it benefit one more to have the boot/app drive in JBOD (TRIM) and the storage in RAID 0 or the storage drive in JBOD (TRIM) and the boot/app in RAID 0?

 

I have a blueray drive in my current Z. With all honesty, I've used it no more than 5 times in two years to burn or play blueray discs. If you are like me and download all your content, it ends up being redundant. I also use USB storage when installing windows or doing backups.

 

If we get rid of the raid stripe and setup jbod instead, will we still get the delay at boot while the raid controler becomes initialized?

 

I'd wait if I were you funkmaster.

If you're a macbook user, a logical guess of mine is that Apple is not going to be far away with an equivalent upgrade of their own this year.

When Sony came out with the SZ/Z and 9300M, Apple came out with the 9400M later.

The Macbooks are generally equivalent or better in hardware if you like the fruit.

 

Hi Zoinks,

Would you be willing to try your quads in RAID 0 vs Single/JBOD and compare their speeds?
I've never seen it myself nor came across benchmarks but what I see from OCZ/overclock forums is that several of the guys who tried it reverted back saying that the performance gain was next to nothing.

Now I'm really dissatisfied...I want blu ray with FullHD! I keep feeling as if I'm buying a cool 52" FullHD screen now and I lack a blu ray player.

 

My guess is yes. [Please do note that I'm just guessing...anyone here with a real system would carry infinitely more weight than me.]

Your RAID controlled is still involved in the JBOD.

Which is why to me...JBOD is just another implementation form of RAID. It just lacks the numbers...

 

The reason why you would want to take the mega penalty of increased failure risk of RAID 0 is to theoretically improve your maximum throughput speed. So most people would chuck their boot/app on RAID 0 strips.

Then you mitigate your risk by putting your storage on the less risky drives which are either single or backed up with further redundancy.

So you wind up having a fast boot/app partition and a decent speed and safer partition for data which you wish to store.

Now Intel created this wonderful solution which had both and called it a funky name. They had two drives which were set up as RAID 0 for a part of the drive and RAID 1 [mirrored] for another part. That was excellent as far as things went if you were using HDDs.

I used to run my RAID 0 on raptors and had my 8 data drives on a RAID 5. [Yep...ten HDDs in my system]

So just in case I didn't answer your question directly:
You will want to have your data on JBOD [less risk, you don't need the crazy speed anyway] and your apps/boot [high risk, high speed] on the RAID 0.
Bear in mind though...that when it comes to apps, a lot of them actually keep their stuff like savegames or files within their own folders and you should have a habit of backing those up.

 

If your Z has one HDD, then it is a 2.5" 9.5mm height plain SATA drive.
The ribbon cable connecting your drive (SSD or HDD) to the mainboard can accommodate any standard SATA or SATA II drive.

If everything is in non-RAID then no, I am not having any sort of delay with 2 SSDs as JBOD so I cannot see how 4 would be any different if the controller doesn't have to find the RAID sets.

EDIT yellowfrizbee (and everyone else) You want your OS and apps to be in a drive with as high as possible IOPS for small files. anything in RAID will not necessarily benefit as there is a penalty involved when the controller wastes time to split the data to multiple drives. So a single drive with high enough IOPS would be a safer and possibly faster solution to for the OS and apps to reside in.