New Z13 (Microsoft version)- Advice please | NotebookReview

lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

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As a "good deed" (yeah, they happen!) I purchased a new in box Z13, black, retail (Microsoft) model (i5-460, 128GB, 4GB) for someone else from a liquidator. It's good for a full 1 yr Sony wtty.

I paid $1,100 for it because an NBR member had PMd me asking first if I thought it was a good deal, then when they wouldn't accept his card, I offered to buy it and resell it to him at cost via PayPal. He then changed his mind.

I can still return it (for another 10 days) for a 100% refund. I plan to move up to a Z2 in the near future (when the great deals return), and to keep a Z1 "in the stable" as well." But I have a Z11 with 384GB SSD, and that seems like the one to keep as a spare.

I get requests all the time for advice on deals on Z1s. Also, my Z11 is almost 2 yrs old, though looks and works like new.

It's not about the cash, I can handle that. Should I hold on to this Z13 - either to sell when someone expresses a strong desire for one and prefers a new one, or to give to my wife when her hp dies or to be my spare Z1 if the Z11 craps out?

Still, I have had "spare" z1s well bought before and once I needed to press it into service and once I saved a guy's day when his died and he didn't want a Z2 or a used Z1. Plus, I only sell computers when I don't need them anymore or when I can do someone a great favor and make $150 or so in the process (helps pay for the next tech indulgence).

Answered my own question probably, but still interested in advice. Will these be increasingly dinosaurs and valuable only to me if I need it in the future, or will there be plenty of demand for them, at least until Z3s, better ultrabooks come out and/or Z2s come back down (there were a few new ones that went for $1,200 on eBay last week) again, and still then, for the versatility the Z2 will never have.

Thanks.

lovelaptops, Dec 8, 2011

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ZugZug Notebook Evangelist

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One extremely useful feature of Z to me is ExpressCard slot. I put EchoAudio Indigo IOx card there. It's a very portable yet powerful recording solution: it has multiple virtual outputs in the mixer so that I can map default Windows sound to a pair and still have 3 more pairs for ASIO in my DAW. I can get multiple channels with external USB solutions but they are all bulky. The smaller ones like CEntrance stuff have single stereo output channel only.

Z has it's issues for audio - high latency impulses caused by Nvidia hybrid - but that is curable by switching to stamina.

Just saying that Z is a nice audio workstation. Should hold its value for a while.

ZugZug, Dec 8, 2011

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maven1975 Notebook Evangelist

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lovelaptops said: ↑

As a "good deed" (yeah, they happen!) I purchased a new in box Z13, black, retail (Microsoft) model (i5-460, 128GB, 4GB) for someone else from a liquidator. It's good for a full 1 yr Sony wtty.

I paid $1,100 for it because an NBR member had PMd me asking first if I thought it was a good deal, then when they wouldn't accept his card, I offered to buy it and resell it to him at cost via PayPal. He then changed his mind.

I can still return it (for another 10 days) for a 100% refund. I plan to move up to a Z2 in the near future (when the great deals return), and to keep a Z1 "in the stable" as well." But I have a Z11 with 384GB SSD, and that seems like the one to keep as a spare.

I get requests all the time for advice on deals on Z1s. Also, my Z11 is almost 2 yrs old, though looks and works like new.

It's not about the cash, I can handle that. Should I hold on to this Z13 - either to sell when someone expresses a strong desire for one and prefers a new one, or to give to my wife when her hp dies or to be my spare Z1 if the Z11 craps out?

Still, I have had "spare" z1s well bought before and once I needed to press it into service and once I saved a guy's day when his died and he didn't want a Z2 or a used Z1. Plus, I only sell computers when I don't need them anymore or when I can do someone a great favor and make $150 or so in the process (helps pay for the next tech indulgence).

Answered my own question probably, but still interested in advice. Will these be increasingly dinosaurs and valuable only to me if I need it in the future, or will there be plenty of demand for them, at least until Z3s, better ultrabooks come out and/or Z2s come back down (there were a few new ones that went for $1,200 on eBay last week) again, and still then, for the versatility the Z2 will never have.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Give ultrabooks, Windows 8 and developers 24 months. We should see some very impressive stuff in the near future.

maven1975, Dec 9, 2011

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lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

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ZugZug said: ↑

One extremely useful feature of Z to me is ExpressCard slot. I put EchoAudio Indigo IOx card there. It's a very portable yet powerful recording solution: it has multiple virtual outputs in the mixer so that I can map default Windows sound to a pair and still have 3 more pairs for ASIO in my DAW. I can get multiple channels with external USB solutions but they are all bulky. The smaller ones like CEntrance stuff have single stereo output channel only.

Z has it's issues for audio - high latency impulses caused by Nvidia hybrid - but that is curable by switching to stamina.

Just saying that Z is a nice audio workstation. Should hold its value for a while.

Click to expand...

I agree with you and I use the EC slot for several things (USB3/eSATA port, Creative Soundblaster sound card, etc.). I didn't know that the Nvidia audio was borked, but I rarely run this computer on "speed" mode anyway. Just one question: I use a Creative Sound Blaster USB card, but only for listening, to one set of speakers. Would the EC version perform better?

lovelaptops, Dec 9, 2011

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lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

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maven1975 said: ↑

Give ultrabooks, Windows 8 and developers 24 months. We should see some very impressive stuff in the near future.

Click to expand...

I totally agree, but that's two lifetimes in computers. We'll be past Ivy bridge by then! I hate to feel like I'm hoarding them (somehow I always end up selling most, but not sure I'm ready to sell this last one. (Like sending my last kid off to college, lol!

lovelaptops, Dec 9, 2011

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Louche Purveyor of Utopias

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ZugZug said: ↑

Just saying that Z is a nice audio workstation.

Click to expand...

Aren't SSDs great (particularly when teamed with enough RAM)?

Louche, Dec 9, 2011

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ZugZug Notebook Evangelist

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lovelaptops said: ↑

I agree with you and I use the EC slot for several things (USB3/eSATA port, Creative Soundblaster sound card, etc.). I didn't know that the Nvidia audio was borked, but I rarely run this computer on "speed" mode anyway. Just one question: I use a Creative Sound Blaster USB card, but only for listening, to one set of speakers. Would the EC version perform better?

Click to expand...

EC version would use less CPU for sure and would have proper hardware acceleration for Creative extensions for games. But for music listening there won't be much advantage, I believe. The most important thing fro music listening is DAC, and I have no idea how that compares between USB and EC versions of Creative cards.

ZugZug, Dec 9, 2011

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lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

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Louche said: ↑

Aren't SSDs great (particularly when teamed with enough RAM)?

Click to expand...

So, Mr. Wizard, my mentor: keep the pristine (but base model) Z13; for $1,000 it can't possibly be an investment I'll be sorry I kept? Or, Z1 is yesterday's news, by the time the IB Ultrabooks come out, that dinosaur will no longer be anything but "a great computer from a time when there weren't many worth owning? (I AM getting a Z2, regardless!)

lovelaptops, Dec 9, 2011

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ZugZug Notebook Evangelist

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Louche said: ↑

Aren't SSDs great (particularly when teamed with enough RAM)?

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, SSDs from Z1 are not that great anymore. Even now.

ZugZug, Dec 9, 2011

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lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

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ZugZug said: ↑

Unfortunately, SSDs from Z1 are not that great anymore. Even now.

Click to expand...

Everything is relative. Here is the latest run from my Z11:

 Sequential Read : 420.777 MB/s
Sequential Write : 312.386 MB/s
Random Read 512KB : 327.571 MB/s
Random Write 512KB : 350.857 MB/s
Random Read 4KB (QD=1) : 21.102 MB/s
Random Write 4KB (QD=1) : 91.304 MB/s
Random Read 4KB (QD=32) : 140.362 MB/s

Random Write 4KB (QD=32) : 111.511 MB/s

I would say these speeds will remain exceptional - compared to HDDs, of course, but even compared to all but the best SATA III SSDs (not RAID-ED)

Disagree?

lovelaptops, Dec 9, 2011

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Louche Purveyor of Utopias

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ZZ,

When you say that the Z1's "are not that great anymore" what exactly do you mean? Are you comparing their benchmarks to more recent SSDs or have you found times when they are just too slow (or at least noticbly slower than you would like)?

Louche, Dec 11, 2011

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ZugZug Notebook Evangelist

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Louche said: ↑

ZZ,

When you say that the Z1's "are not that great anymore" what exactly do you mean? Are you comparing their benchmarks to more recent SSDs or have you found times when they are just too slow (or at least noticbly slower than you would like)?

Click to expand...

They are older, not SATA III, non-standard. They are still plenty fast in RAID 0, but individually are not that great (a single 128 GB platter from Z1 vs a 128 GB Crucial M4, for example).

ZugZug, Dec 11, 2011

#12

lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

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Louche said: ↑

ZZ,

When you say that the Z1's "are not that great anymore" what exactly do you mean? Are you comparing their benchmarks to more recent SSDs or have you found times when they are just too slow (or at least noticbly slower than you would like)?

Click to expand...

Allow me to second that question. I am eagerly awaiting delivery of my Z22, but as I put this old jalopy (Z11) through its paces, I find even under stress testing it is still remarkably fast and the frame rates (of games I don't play!) in such benchmarks as Unigine Heaven are acceptable - with the last drivers from Sony! - at about 28 FPS. Plus, downloads are instant as are load-ups of every piece of software I own and newly downloaded software extracts and downloads in less time than it takes me to remember what it was that I am installing, and why, lol.

What I don't really do is much photo editing, any video editing or any VMs, which is where I believe both the faster cpu/memory could make a difference and the 2X faster SATAIII SSD/bus might translate to, well, two or more separate computers running simultaneously as fast as one does now.

What I'm not sure about is how Win 8 will run on Arrandale/8GB and whether applications written for it will be done by lazy programmers who will assume there are super-fast cpus, RAM (incl. 16GB of it) and SSDs to make up for their sloppy programming.

That is essentially why I started the thread. Thanks for focusing on a central issue, Louche, that a (clearly young!) member used to date this "antique" from 2011!

lovelaptops, Dec 11, 2011

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Louche Purveyor of Utopias

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ZugZug said: ↑

They are older, not SATA III, non-standard. They are still plenty fast in RAID 0, but individually are not that great (a single 128 GB platter from Z1 vs a 128 GB Crucial M4, for example).

Click to expand...

You're right, the Z's SSDs are non-standard, but that is unrelated to its performance. Since SSDs are not used in isolation, I don't see how comparing them with Brand X is a meaninful exercise. There seems to be no shortage of people who express concern that a given processor, SSD or other component is old/outdated without having any applications where they fall short. Sure, there are people who will benefit from greater capabilities, but that's a minority of users.

Video power (integrated or not), is a different issue since there are apparently plenty of games that can soak up all the processing capability most users have.

Louche, Dec 12, 2011

#14

New Z13 (Microsoft version): Advice please

lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

ZugZug Notebook Evangelist

maven1975 Notebook Evangelist

lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

Louche Purveyor of Utopias

ZugZug Notebook Evangelist

lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

ZugZug Notebook Evangelist

lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

Louche Purveyor of Utopias

ZugZug Notebook Evangelist

lovelaptops MY FRIENDS CALL ME JEFF!

Louche Purveyor of Utopias